Scottish Premiership Data [Discussion]

The Celtic squad is still an absolute riot.  Could point out all the inaccuracies but little point at this stage, will just stick with the custom database as my main save which is I've never done before in 20+ years of playing the game.  

16 hours ago, celtic_fc said:

The Celtic squad is still an absolute riot.  Could point out all the inaccuracies but little point at this stage, will just stick with the custom database as my main save which is I've never done before in 20+ years of playing the game.  

Honestly I just gave them the most obvious one of Forrest and Yang's physicals. Liam Scales, O'Riley, Palma, Kyogo, Yang and the youth players are all a state. 

For St Johnstone Sam McClelland should be on loan at Dundee United, although it went through in February which is maybe why its not in?

David Keltjens contract is until 2025 too, not 2024. It was wrongly announced by the club at the time but later rectified. 

 

Rangers have an optional buy clause for Oscar Cortes from Lens as part of the loan deal. This is common knowledge and can be found through various online sources. However, the fee is not yet officially known. 

James Cumming is missing as chief scout in game.

 

https://berwickrangers.com/berwick-rangers-appoint-chief-scout/

In a way, my own fault for not raising when they occurred, but a few very obvious Celtic issues not picked up before the March data deadline:

Josh Clarke was loaned to Ayr United in late February, has played seven times for them since. 

Alexandro Bernabei left on loan in early March, but understand that this not being implemented may be to do with the Calendar year leagues given he went to Brazil (albeit, I can't see the logic in not moving players out of clubs with active leagues outwith that nation, but I understand if that is the line). 

Mark Lawwell left the club on 1st March in a well documented and fairly high profile exit, as did Joe Dudgeon. 

Clarke won't matter for FM25, but for the master DB, thought to flag Bernabei (acknowledging he will likely be taken care of already), Lawwell and Dudgeon as three that can be actioned in-house, as I guess the database you guys access is updated on an ongoing basis in advance of what will be needed for FM25, even if too late for the last FM24 patch. 

Edited April 9 by joe5p

 

23 hours ago, joe5p said:

In a way, my own fault for not raising when they occurred, but a few very obvious Celtic issues not picked up before the March data deadline:

Josh Clarke was loaned to Ayr United in late February, has played seven times for them since. 

Alexandro Bernabei left on loan in early March, but understand that this not being implemented may be to do with the Calendar year leagues given he went to Brazil (albeit, I can't see the logic in not moving players out of clubs with active leagues outwith that nation, but I understand if that is the line). 

Mark Lawwell left the club on 1st March in a well documented and fairly high profile exit, as did Joe Dudgeon. 

Clarke won't matter for FM25, but for the master DB, thought to flag Bernabei (acknowledging he will likely be taken care of already), Lawwell and Dudgeon as three that can be actioned in-house, as I guess the database you guys access is updated on an ongoing basis in advance of what will be needed for FM25, even if too late for the last FM24 patch. 

We've had no March deadline bud, Scottish deadline was early - mid February, for the data update that was released a few week back. The March deadline, literally was just to update the Chinese/MLS leagues (I think it was those leagues) as a finality/part 2, for that update.

Everything you mention has already been picked up in ORDB though.
 

Edited April 10 by Giro

16 hours ago, Giro said:

 

We've had no March deadline bud, Scottish deadline was early - mid February, for the data update that was released a few week back. The March deadline, literally was just to update the Chinese/MLS leagues (I think it was those leagues) as a finality/part 2, for that update.

Everything you mention has already been picked up in ORDB though.
 

Apologies Giro, that all makes sense

For next years game - New training centre now under construction for Kilmarnock with pitches for youth/reserves.

The league positions of clubs, compared to real life are all over the place.

I have ran 5, 1 season tests and will post the tables from them and also a what their 5 season average position is in the next few days.

 

I dont know how much testing/attention is paid to it through the course of a season but as people have mentioned about not being able to enjoy players at a club due to them not getting updated in time, i think we would also like clubs to perform in the league kinda like they do irl.

testing, testing, testing is how this will be achieved.

 

Im happy to run season tests and post them up as well as a 5 season avg if the updaters dont have time for doing this.

 

Cheers

Also looking at the line ups, a lot of them have players who should be regular starters that dont get a game.

 

 

I know all of this and the above post are obviously difficult to do at the start of a season as the league has to develop, but the winter update should be your best update of the season, you will then have a good idea of the team line ups and also the teams league positions, there is no excuse really for these being wrong.

 

Im not having a pop as i know from experince how hard updating and researching and testing can be, but it you want a particular league looking spot on then thats what needs done.

 

Im more than happy to help in any way to try and make it better for everybody.

 

Cheers

Been busy with work the last few days,

will get back on this shortly.

 

Is this even the right section to provide the feedback regarding trying to get more accurate starting line ups?

 

My plan was to post a screen of the FM team squad based on appearances and then post the real life appearances and we can try sort out the errors that appear?

 

I think most people would like accurate starting line ups?

 

One thing i have noticed is there aint much feeback around here from updaters??  Everybody working together prviding valid info can only make the updates better. right?

Bosun Lawal is listed as 5ft 11, He is actually 6ft 2. A very imposing figure who had a fantastic loan spell last season at fleetwood Town.

Recently called up to the Ireland main squad as well.

The boy has a big future.

Id make him as comfortable as a Def mid as  Def Cen.

 

here are some of his highlights from his loan spell,

A big, strong beast of a boy at 20 years old, i fully expect him to be in and around the fringes of the Celtic first team this season, or perhaps another loan to a Championship club this time?

 

 

I think that all of the Lisbon Lions should be down as Celtic ledgends, Lets be honest, they are. and not just for Celtic, they are legends of Brittish football.

Bobby Lennox is the second all time top scorer and Lisbon Lion and he is listed in the same bracket as the bold Giakoumakis.

Id remove Giakoumakis as favoured personel as well, he was mainly a substitute, decent player yes, but mainly a sub.

 

Hearts,

I think Henry Smith should feature somehwere on the icons list at least? 476 appearcences and is third on the all time list for that.

John Cumming should be a club legend. He won every major homour with Hearts and also its his "Blood doesn't show on a maroon jersey" quote that hangs above the tunnel in Tynecastle.

 

Walter Kidd, Craig Levein, John Colqhuoun are all over the 300 mark as well, and played in good Hearts teams and are very highly regarded by fans.

 

Ex chairman Wallace Mercer once famously said he was going to buy Hibs as well, i think he should be on a list, Icon maybe?

 

 

 

 

Paul McStay should be on the Celtic Legend/Icon list. I dont think he is ony any of them or fav staff?

Paul McStay should be on the Celtic Legend/Icon list. I dont think he is ony any of them or fav staff?

 

Kyogo needs "cuts inside from left wing" removed. He doesnt play on the left wing so he cant cut in from it.

BigBeezer - When it comes to ensuring that the game is accurate, I think we do a pretty good job. We don't live in a binary world where there is no wriggle room for a video game to stray from reality.

From what I've read there, you want us in February to know exactly who will finish in each position and rate players and clubs in such a way that there can be no deviation from that? I neither think that's realistic, nor do I see that as something to aspire to.

Of course, I'm not trying to suggest that it should be a free-for-all where literally any team from a league could win it. We want to be able to achieve something that resembles reality, where the challengers for the league title are challenging and the teams most likely to be in a relegation dogfight are going to be down at the bottom, and I think we manage that. In fact, there have been a few case studies over the years that have highlighted that in FM, Scotland is perhaps the best example of things working largely as they should.

When my team finished researching for the mid-season update in mid January, there's no way I would expect them to make significant changes to the data to *ensure* that Dundee and St. Mirren would finish in the top six and Aberdeen and Hibernian wouldn't. That would just be silly. On Feb 1st, 4 points separated 6th - 10th.

When it comes to players not being picked when they might be in real life, there could be a number of reasons for this, including players being injured, unfit, a change in system, falling out of favour of the manager or unexpectedly emerging into the first team. So if you look at the example of Miller Thompson, he came into the Dundee United first team way after our deadline, and played in a position he'd never played in before (right back). How do we legislate for that?

And on top of all of that, what you're not considering is that from the moment you start a game it's a completely new world where there are so many variables that within reason, anything can happen. Players get injured, transfers happen, form counts, managers move; that's the joy of Football Manager and I would not want that to change, otherwise why bother playing it? Why not just make the game a series of unplayed 1 season test runs?

Also, just to clarify, we do run tests like the ones you mention; the difference is, we did it without the benefit of hindsight.

To your point about legends, I wouldn't want you to waste any of your time even posting about them; the legends and icons are chosen by the clubs themselves, so we go with who they want.

 

Edited July 8 by Stuart Milne

5 hours ago, Stuart Milne said:

From what I've read there, you want us in February to know exactly who will finish in each position and rate players and clubs in such a way that there can be no deviation from that? I neither think that's realistic, nor do I see that as something to aspire to.

 

No, What i and many others want is the league table to resemble what it looks like irl when the update is released. Of course you cant see into the future, nobody is asking you to, just realistic at moment of release would please a lot of people, with the right players performing and basic starting line ups correct most of the time.

5 hours ago, Stuart Milne said:

When it comes to players not being picked when they might be in real life, there could be a number of reasons for this, including players being injured, unfit, a change in system, falling out of favour of the manager or unexpectedly emerging into the first team. So if you look at the example of Miller Thompson, he came into the Dundee United first team way after our deadline, and played in a position he'd never played in before (right back). How do we legislate for that?

Take Matt O'Reilly as just one example, in the tests i did he started less games than the other midfielders in most of them, the boy cleaned the decks at the Celtic end of season awards - collecting Player, Young Player and Players Player of the year, the only player to have done so at Celtic [although i stand to be corrected on that] It was glaringly obvious in Feb and before that he was the best player in Scotland [I know Shankland won the player of the year, ill come onto him as well] So what isn't fair is a player like O'Reilly in Scotland playing the way he has done, if he leaves in the summer to Athl Madrid as reported then i gaurantee you a bump for him, so as pointed out by others we wil have missed out on managing him playing the way he should, that's not fair.

 

5 hours ago, Stuart Milne said:

And on top of all of that, what you're not considering is that from the moment you start a game it's a completely new world where there are so many variables that within reason, anything can happen. Players get injured, transfers happen, form counts, managers move; that's the joy of Football Manager and I would not want that to change, otherwise why bother playing it? Why not just make the game a series of unplayed 1 season test runs?

The very first thig i do is check for injuries my friend when a player has missed more games that a regular starter should, The manager was the same in the case of O'Rielly as well. I have the saves, i can send you them if you would like?

 

You are right, it is a joy playing it, but not when players are in top form, which can be put into a Feb update to give people a few months of enjoying them before the inevitable bit move and likley increase for the player, that isn't fair or right i don't think.

5 hours ago, Stuart Milne said:

So if you look at the example of Miller Thompson, he came into the Dundee United first team way after our deadline, and played in a position he'd never played in before (right back). How do we legislate for that?

I and others aren't talking about some unknown youngster breaking through, we are talking about good, establoished first team players, i don't see the validity of using him in this discussion as an example?

5 hours ago, Stuart Milne said:

Also, just to clarify, we do run tests like the ones you mention; the difference is, we did it without the benefit of hindsight.

You don't need hindsight, you have 7 months of a season as a reference, foresight if you will.

5 hours ago, Stuart Milne said:

To your point about legends, I wouldn't want you to waste any of your time even posting about them; the legends and icons are chosen by the clubs themselves, so we go with who they want.

Thats a new one, thanks for tellign me. Some very strange choices and glaring emissions, who at the clubs choose these?

 

One wee last thing,

Is there any reason why players in title winning sides in Scotland struggle to avg over 7 for a season?  In one test i think there were only 7 players over 7 avg in top league in Scotland, that seems very low? Every team has it's consistent players surely?

 

Please dont take any of this as criticism as thats not my intention at all,

 

Thanks

 

 

Noticed a few wee things regarding Celtic,

 

firstly the formation they play is causing issues,

 

its 4231 - Celtic dont play with 2 def mids,

cal mac should be the def mid and Hatate and O'reilly ahead of him.

 

in game this has resulted in O'Rielly and Hatate [both mainstays irl] hardly featuring, and even worse, Lagerbielke is playing at Def Mid and is listed now as an important player.

Over 2 seasons O'reilly started 11 games for Celtic

He should be the star of Scottish football in these updates, linked with £30m moves to Italy and Spain, yet we will never have had the pleasure of managing him at his best in the game now,

 

i cant understand how any of these issues were not spotted in any testing despite being raised before.

They way i look at updating, the first update when the game comes out is a free hit, nobody can know how  a seaosn will pan out, Hoever in April of whenever an update is release you will have a very good idea of what players are playing well, what teams are performing well etc, that update should be the easy one.

I can't understand why all these things have been missed?

 

I have offered to help with testing before, i can pick up on all the small niggly things, like correct formations - which as you see can have a big affect on players getting a game etc

 

Hatate missed out as well

 

[no injuries caused this either as i always check that before posting]

 

There has been lots of conjecture about the Celtic squad on here this season and it seems to have been largely dismissed.

 

Also over the 2 seasons, Conor Goldson had the highest acg rating in the lge both seasons??? He has been finished for over a year imo, slow, lethargic and error prone and as we speka is being linked with a move to the miughty Cypriot league.

 

None of this is personal criticism, just disappointed.

 

 

As you may know i have been updating CM01/02 for 20 years and we release updates,  i know how hard we work ect and i know its not easy, The thing i love about updating is getting players performing how they are irl and also getting the formations [altho we are limited by the age of our game and coding correct and the line ups correct] Im happy to help out with Scotland as well.

 

Thanks

Here is the formation.

with Palma being a natural at AMC, keepts hatate or o'rielly out the team there.

Kuhn being a natural at Left wing, He plays on the right and cuts inside on his left foot for Celtic,

 

all these wee things add up to make it the way it is.

I also think that Maeda could be doing with a slight boost of some attributes,

He is one of the first names on the teamsheet each week, yes he can be hot and cold, but his first touch and tech, vision, crossing are better then show, he is a top player in Scotland and also an International for Japan. Slight increase in these areas would be good.

Edited July 26 by bigbeezer

There is no way that Chris Kane has higher teamowrk or workrate than Maeda [youd struggle to find a player that does, also kyogo.]

 

I have a 5 season aversge league position to upload tomorrow,

taken from 5 - 1 season tests and averaged.

 

will compare it against the end of season real life league table.

 

see what you think.

 

i think Connor Goldson had the highest avg rating in each season, can't really ubdersatnd that one as he has been done for over a year now, and at his best he was never anyhwere near the best in the lge ratings wise. Some very strange highest assisters as well.

Edited August 1 by bigbeezer

The lack of feeback on here is actually wild,

Why isnt there more debate about things?

Surely that can only help make any updates better for everybody?

 

I update CM0102 and honestly there is more feeback in the threads for that than here, i can't understand why?

 

Surely we all want the same and any update to be the best it can possibly be and also try to reflect real life a wee bit in terms of league positions [esp in an april update with 3/4 of the season having already been played, so we are all well aware of teams and players who are doign well and also the opposite] cmon, lets all work together and make somehing special.