Scottish Premiership Data [Discussion]

Here we have 5 1 season tests and the avg points and position.

 

Compared to the real life table,

 

there are top 6 teams who never averaged a top 6 finish,

 

Killie were 4th irl, they come in at 10.6 in game, thats a huge difference, missing any top 6 place at all.

St Mirren were 5th irl, in game they are 9.6, another big difference and again missing top 6 totally

Dundee were 6th irl, in game 9.2, again a big difference and missing the top 6 all together,

 

then we have the teams who made top 6 but should have ended up bottom 6, Hibs and Aberdeen.

 

Livi finished 10 points adrift at rock bottom irl, in game they came in at 7.4, a huge difference.

 

If there is all the testing going on, why are things like this missed?

Here are all the test seasons,

Some crazy top scorers and assists.

 

also Connor Goldson must have naked photos of updaters lol, The guy has been a liability for over a year and before that avearge at best.

John Lundstrum should be nowhere near the top of any assist table,

He had 9 in over 150 games for rangers.

Again im happy to help with testing to spot these kind of things and keep on top of them before any update is released, and also to make sure the correct players are performing or staring for their teams in the correct positions etc.

Who should be topping the assist charts.

Are you able to tell people how the league table will look in May and who the top scorer/assister will be, and every clubs starting line up for the full season?

Otherwise this is pointless, which I guess is why people now avoid this thread.

You're moaning people can't see the future and predict exactly what will happen. You acting as if telling everyone it's wrong, 6+ months, and more than half a season, after they've made their decisions on things is helpful is just strange.

You'd need to repeat this for multiple other leagues too if you're truly wanting to test the accuracy of Scottish football too. Guardiola is generally sacked within a season or two at City, as an example.

It's a simulation game that moves away from reality the moment you make your first click after starting a new save, it's not an exact replica of real life with you in it.

On 02/08/2024 at 17:55, RandomGuy. said:

Are you able to tell people how the league table will look in May and who the top scorer/assister will be, and every clubs starting line up for the full season?

Otherwise this is pointless, which I guess is why people now avoid this thread.

You're moaning people can't see the future and predict exactly what will happen. You acting as if telling everyone it's wrong, 6+ months, and more than half a season, after they've made their decisions on things is helpful is just strange.

You'd need to repeat this for multiple other leagues too if you're truly wanting to test the accuracy of Scottish football too. Guardiola is generally sacked within a season or two at City, as an example.

It's a simulation game that moves away from reality the moment you make your first click after starting a new save, it's not an exact replica of real life with you in it.

 

After watching a league for 7 or 8 months, yes id have a pretty good idea.

 

Im talking about Data updates that are out when the season has been going for 7 8 or 9 months, Its usually March or April that a Data update is released is it not?  So in short YES, you have a very good idea of who is doing what then....

 

Nobody is moaning about people being able to see the future ffs.....

You have completely missed the whole point of this...

 

Its about players and teams playing as they are in real life after watching them from when the leagues start in AUGUST...... TIL THE DATA UPDATE....

 

So in short, yes im sure we can expect players and teams to be performing somewhere near the level they are irl after watching them for circa 7 or 8 months..

Nobody expects it to completely replica real life, howerver we do expect a certain degree of realisim.

Thank you.

Edited August 7 by bigbeezer

Of course nobody knows at the start of any season who a league is gonna turn out. let alone what players will do what.

 

The frustration i feel is after watching the season for months , then releasing an update that doesn't really reflect how teams and players are playing, thats why i and many others look forwrad to updates.

There should be a lot more discussion about all this from updaters and ourselves, that would help produce a better product imo, which i think is what we all would love.

 

Things like getting the top 6 teams finishing in the top 6 aren't hard to achive, but the test results showing Killie, Dundee and St Mirrens avg positions as 9th and 10th isn't good and i don't understand how any of that wasn't picked up on in testing? Same with Livi who finished well adrift at the bottom, but their avg positions are much higher.

 

Just frustrating.

 

Im happy to help with tests and give findings to updaters etc.

 

 

Example of Connor Goldson being the highest rated player by avg rating in nearly every test,

 

Now im pretty sure that nearly everybody who has watched scottish football over the last couple of years would tell  you that he has been on a fast decline, even at his best he was not the best defender in scotland, never mind best player.

Again, i can't see how things like that would get overlooked in any testing?

 

 

and please, please don't take any of my posts as criticism, im only trying to help make any update better for everybody.

Queens Park don't play at Hampden anymore,

they play at the redeveloped Lesser Hampden, also known as The City Stadium.

16 hours ago, bigbeezer said:

Im talking about Data updates that are out when the season has been going for 7 8 or 9 months, Its usually March or April that a Data update is released is it not? 

Believe the data lock for player attributes is before that, around the end of January, for playsr attributes.

There was around 10pts separating 4th and 11th in January last year, but you're telling me you could accurately predict exactly where everyone would finish?

I'd be amazed if you could fairly rate St Johnstone players at that stage too. Had you ever heard of Adama Sidibeh before he joined us? Yet he become a key player and arguably our best for a spell, how it is possible to accurately predict that?

16 hours ago, bigbeezer said:

Same with Livi who finished well adrift at the bottom, but their avg positions are much higher.

Because they under achieved relative to their actual squad. The game doesn't, and can't, exactly replicate Martindale losing his head and falling out with half the squad because he didn't get to leave. It can't exactly replicate their best striker having diabetes and struggling to play for months because it flared up. The game can't exactly replicate Martindale deciding in January to start signing players for the Championship as hes chucked it, instead it'll look to sign players for the top flight.

The game gets different inputs at different times to real life so gives different outputs. It's never going to match real life exactly.

14 hours ago, bigbeezer said:

Queens Park don't play at Hampden anymore,

they play at the redeveloped Lesser Hampden, also known as The City Stadium.

Temporarily back at their own stadium. They will continue to use Hampden once Rangers move out, and used it last season too.

Edited August 8 by RandomGuy.

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Believe the data lock for player attributes is before that, around the end of January, for playsr attributes.

There was around 10pts separating 4th and 11th in January last year, but you're telling me you could accurately predict exactly where everyone would finish?

I'd be amazed if you could fairly rate St Johnstone players at that stage too. Had you ever heard of Adama Sidibeh before he joined us? Yet he become a key player and arguably our best for a spell, how it is possible to accurately predict that?

Because they under achieved relative to their actual squad. The game doesn't, and can't, exactly replicate Martindale losing his head and falling out with half the squad because he didn't get to leave. It can't exactly replicate their best striker having diabetes and struggling to play for months because it flared up. The game can't exactly replicate Martindale deciding in January to start signing players for the Championship as hes chucked it, instead it'll look to sign players for the top flight.

The game gets different inputs at different times to real life so gives different outputs. It's never going to match real life exactly.

Temporarily back at their own stadium. They will continue to use Hampden once Rangers move out, and used it last season too.

 

On 02/08/2024 at 12:53, bigbeezer said:

Here we have 5 1 season tests and the avg points and position.

 

Compared to the real life table,

 

there are top 6 teams who never averaged a top 6 finish,

 

Killie were 4th irl, they come in at 10.6 in game, thats a huge difference, missing any top 6 place at all.

St Mirren were 5th irl, in game they are 9.6, another big difference and again missing top 6 totally

Dundee were 6th irl, in game 9.2, again a big difference and missing the top 6 all together,

 

then we have the teams who made top 6 but should have ended up bottom 6, Hibs and Aberdeen.

 

Livi finished 10 points adrift at rock bottom irl, in game they came in at 7.4, a huge difference.

 

If there is all the testing going on, why are things like this missed?

 

 

The table at end of season v the table at the end of Jan [for any data lock]

pretty similar huh?  all top 6 teams are in top 6..

 

So your points about Livi?  They were bottom in Feb and Finished bottom..

Your point about St Johnstone - they finished 1 position away from where they were in Feb.. [are you amazed?]

 

Even getting the correct teams in the top and bottom 6 would be a good thing?

 

Silly other things like Celtic playing a formation with 2 defensive mids. this means that either Hatate or O'reilly miss out when they both should be regulars'

 

I helped update cm01/02 for 20 years, i know what can and can't be done in terms of player/team performance and getting teams to finish somewhere near where they do irl mate.

 

 

 

Real life end of season table v end of jan table for any data lock

This should be Rodgers pref formation,

433DM wide, Note Hatate and O'reilly both playing,

4231 as he is set to in game - 1 misses out when they use his current formation, a lot of the time Lagerbielke plays as a def mid.. also Palma is used as a amc.

 

Maeda left side [first pick] Kuhn right side, not left. as that would keep maeda out team.

 

palma shoulnt' have a central attacking role, hes never played there for celtic and the formation rodgers plays doesnt use a amc.

 

Kyogo has never played on the right in his life, id remove that from him.

 

 

 

 

 

Also noticed that Jack Butland has a PA of 161.

Matt O'reilly has a PA of 145,

 

One is on the downward slope of his career and one is up the upward trajectory.

 

maybe a wee thing to look at.

All my posts are from a place of good intention,

maybe sometimes it might seem like im criticising but im not.

I only want to help.

 

Thanks

Brendan Rodgers has Kasper Schmeichel as Dislked staff, prob best to change that.

Maik Nawrocki - Id give him a high Injury proneness, Guy is hardly ever fit since joining Celtic.

On 07/08/2024 at 14:17, bigbeezer said:

 

After watching a league for 7 or 8 months, yes id have a pretty good idea.

 

Im talking about Data updates that are out when the season has been going for 7 8 or 9 months, Its usually March or April that a Data update is released is it not?  So in short YES, you have a very good idea of who is doing what then....

 

Nobody is moaning about people being able to see the future ffs.....

You have completely missed the whole point of this...

 

Its about players and teams playing as they are in real life after watching them from when the leagues start in AUGUST...... TIL THE DATA UPDATE....

 

So in short, yes im sure we can expect players and teams to be performing somewhere near the level they are irl after watching them for circa 7 or 8 months..

Nobody expects it to completely replica real life, howerver we do expect a certain degree of realisim.

Thank you.

It is a game, not real life. As soon as you hit continue on the first screen there are ALOT more factors to how the league table pans out in game than just our data. Player morale, game mechanics, transfers, managerial changes are all things us as researchers cannot control.

As @RandomGuy. has said, it is end of January that is our cut off for the data updates, at that time, the table was pretty tight, I mean as an Aberdeen fan, I was hoping Warnock was going to tighten us and take us into the top 6.

Aberdeen were 7th then, they finished 8th.

Its not too much to ask to get the correct formations - Celtic playing 2 def mids in the game??? cmon. Lagerbielke playing and keeping O'reilly out the team...

And the top 6 and bottom 6 roughly are as they are in end of jan/start of feb for the data lock,

 

random guy spoke about St Johnstone, they were 9th and finished 10th. 

These arent huge differences to ask the updaters to try and fix it like.

 

I have updated CM01/02 for 20 years, we can do things like this with a 22 year old game so im sure it can be dont with FM,

 

I know its not real life, it just looks wrong with so many teams way of what they are in the league table at end of season in my 5 season tests.

 

Just gonna do this myself from now on, may even relese a DB, who knows.

 

Cheers

 

 

50 minutes ago, bigbeezer said:

These arent huge differences to ask the updaters to try and fix it like.

The game can't be fixed that way, though. That's what you seem unable to understand.

Clubs/players can be rated to try and force things, but then you press continue, and (for example) St Johnstone lose Mitov to a broken arm that rules him out for 6 months and suddenly St Johnstone have gone from being rated 10th to rated 12th, finish bottom because they can't find a keeper as good, and you're on here screaming that's a research mistake.

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

The game can't be fixed that way, though. That's what you seem unable to understand.

Clubs/players can be rated to try and force things, but then you press continue, and (for example) St Johnstone lose Mitov to a broken arm that rules him out for 6 months and suddenly St Johnstone have gone from being rated 10th to rated 12th, finish bottom because they can't find a keeper as good, and you're on here screaming that's a research mistake.

I'd be amazed if you could fairly rate St Johnstone players at that stage too. Had you ever heard of Adama Sidibeh before he joined us? Yet he become a key player and arguably our best for a spell, how it is possible to accurately predict that?

 

That was you who said that.   St Johnstone were 9th for the data lock, they finished 10th... 1 place of a difference, Your key player made 1 place of a difference...

i just don't think that after watching the league for 8 months and seeing who is doing what its too much to ask to get a team playing the way they were irl at the point of any update release. 

 

What is a research mistake is having Celtic playing with 2 def mids - one of which was lagerbielke.. and the best player in Scotland missing out on selection a lot of times because of it.  Simple errors that i cant understand why they werent picked up in any testing?

 

If teams are finishing in wrong halfs of tables and in livis case, 30 points better off than they should be then that points to managers and players not being updated correctly. Take Livi as an example, finished rock bottom and cast adrift irl, yet in tests, avg finish was 7th, thats just wrong.

 

My last post on this.

 

Cheers

 

 

Edited August 14 by bigbeezer

40 minutes ago, bigbeezer said:

I'd be amazed if you could fairly rate St Johnstone players at that stage too. Had you ever heard of Adama Sidibeh before he joined us? Yet he become a key player and arguably our best for a spell, how it is possible to accurately predict that?

 

That was you who said that.   St Johnstone were 9th for the data lock, they finished 10th... 1 place of a difference, Your key player made 1 place of a difference...

Without Mitov and Sidibeh I'm fairly sure we finish 11th and I'm not sure we win the play off. We were only 9th in January because Mitov kept us alive during MacLeans disaster.

So the Saints researcher in January would be 100% correct if they judged Saints the 11th best team, with Mitov the only one higher. He couldn't rate Sidibeh.

In game that results in a 11th/12th place finish dependent on factors. In real life Sidibeh adds to it and its enough for 9th/10th.

What would you say has been done wrong there?

Rate St Johnstone players higher than they are because one player is winning them games?

Edited August 14 by RandomGuy.