Sacha Boey

Nope, don't hate any players.

Boey's dribbling, specifically his ball control while running with the ball is quite poor.  He's extremely athletic which contributes to his ability to get past players.
As for off the ball, he's a full back, not a winger or an attacker.  In the one match when he was asked to play further up the pitch you could really observe how poor his movement off the ball was and how lost he looked when he had space to exploit.
As for flair, this attribute represents a player's likelihood of doing the unexpected.  Boey is more of a bulldozer than a flair player.

I have seen Ali Turap play live several times.  I don't see a big issue with the off the ball rating.  It's actually his best feature in my opinion.

Nelsson himself said in an interview that his biggest weakness was his heading in attacking situations.  In defensive situations he wins a lot of headers certainly.  But the heading attribute is meant to reflect a player's ability to head the ball accurately to a teammate or in scoring situations.  It's essentially a combination of finishing/passing with the head.  I believe he is yet to score a single goal with his head so far in his professional career despite having quite strong aerial ability.  So a higher heading ability would be somewhat similar to giving a high finishing for a player who has never scored a goal.

Kerem's ability to accelerate very quickly is his biggest speed tool as well as his ability to change direction.  However he doesn't have an especially high top speed.

I know Boey's dribbling is not 17 but c'mon is it really bad as 9? Nelsson's weakness may be his heading but 10 heading is not accurate for that level of football. Is Kerem getting slower? Nelsson's heading worsened? His heading was 12 last year. It was already bad for a central defender. 

Giving Boey 12 dribbling doesn't make him Neymar. It is pretty average. Zalgiris's right-back has 12 dribbling. You can't say Boey's ball control was much worse when they encountered in CL play-offs. 

I feel like the research team trying to balance players like we improved Boey's stamina because he is sprinting even at the 89th minute but it is becoming powerful so let's reduce his off-the-ball from 12 to 8, let's reduce his bad attributes by 1 point as in vision, flair, dribbling. 

Tete's top speed is 16, Kerem's 12. Just look at Kerem's Euro qualifier goal against Latvia. 12 is not accurate. Other research teams are giving points much generous, I guess. 

Anyways. It is getting so subjective because it is not a data issue as we can see. It is how you guys intended to. 

At least, add Galatasaray to Mauro Icardi's favorite clubs and add him Gala as club favored. He is much a club favoured personnel than Emre Aşık. 

I appreciate your comments.

Changes to attribues don't always imply improvement or worsening.  They sometimes (often really) are a result of getting to watch the player over a longer period.  For example you watch Nelsson for a season, notice that his heading is not vey good.  So you really want to drop it 4 points but you give the player the benefit of the doubt.  You keep observing to see if he shows something different.  If he does, then you evaluate based on that. If he doesn't then you drop it a little further in a future database revision.  So sometimes attributes can be dropped not because a player got worse but because the player didn't show something better.  Opinions about players' abilities (which is what attributes in the database really are) become more solidified the more you get to watch them.

Regarding Boey's dribbling, lets compare with a former teammate, Leo Dubois.  Dubois has better ball control when he is dribbling but he's consierably slower.  Lets suppose we raised Boey to 12.  We then want to rate Dubois at a level higher than that.  Maybe 13 or 14.  Then you have Ferdi Kadioglu who is the best dribbler as a full back, then you want to rate him at 16-17 probably.  So you have effectively decided at this point that any winger who is a decent dribbler needs to have 17-20 for his dribbling.  Simply because a dribbling of 9 for Boey feels low, perhaps because it's in single digits.  You then end up with players who look very similar in ability, they are easily interchangable.  And the value of a winger who can dribble well is diminished.

I will add one caveat.  If you find that Boey doesn't appear very realistic in the game/match engine, then I would love to hear about it to help figure out ways to improve how he is rated such that he behaves more realistically.  Same with any player.

After all, the main purpose of attributes is to make player behave realistically in the game/match engine.  Not just look pretty in their profiles.

Forgot to write about Icardi.  Good idea.  Will be done.

12 hours ago, perpetua said:

Forgot to write about Icardi.  Good idea.  Will be done.

Thank you so much. 

12 hours ago, perpetua said:

I appreciate your comments.

Changes to attribues don't always imply improvement or worsening.  They sometimes (often really) are a result of getting to watch the player over a longer period.  For example you watch Nelsson for a season, notice that his heading is not vey good.  So you really want to drop it 4 points but you give the player the benefit of the doubt.  You keep observing to see if he shows something different.  If he does, then you evaluate based on that. If he doesn't then you drop it a little further in a future database revision.  So sometimes attributes can be dropped not because a player got worse but because the player didn't show something better.  Opinions about players' abilities (which is what attributes in the database really are) become more solidified the more you get to watch them.

Regarding Boey's dribbling, lets compare with a former teammate, Leo Dubois.  Dubois has better ball control when he is dribbling but he's consierably slower.  Lets suppose we raised Boey to 12.  We then want to rate Dubois at a level higher than that.  Maybe 13 or 14.  Then you have Ferdi Kadioglu who is the best dribbler as a full back, then you want to rate him at 16-17 probably.  So you have effectively decided at this point that any winger who is a decent dribbler needs to have 17-20 for his dribbling.  Simply because a dribbling of 9 for Boey feels low, perhaps because it's in single digits.  You then end up with players who look very similar in ability, they are easily interchangable.  And the value of a winger who can dribble well is diminished.

I will add one caveat.  If you find that Boey doesn't appear very realistic in the game/match engine, then I would love to hear about it to help figure out ways to improve how he is rated such that he behaves more realistically.  Same with any player.

After all, the main purpose of attributes is to make player behave realistically in the game/match engine.  Not just look pretty in their profiles.

After watching Sinan Yılmaz on YouTube and reading your comments, I dropped my concerns about these attributes.

My personal opinion is that in many leagues the weaknesses of many players are rated between 10-12. It's like a default rating. I like the fact that the weaknesses of the high profile players of the big teams in Turkey are revealed more. But since this kind of rating is not applied in the Turkish league wide and the game in general, these low ratings stand out a lot. 
Nelson's header may be a 10, but I'm sure a lot of stopper's headers at much worse levels are rated much higher. 
What interests me about Fenerbahce is that Osterwolde's dribbling (8) is weaker than almost all defenders. I find Osterwolde's dribbling rating wrong, but in this case, I think players like Samet and Serdar Aziz should definitely be rated even lower. If İrfan Can Kahveci has 12 passing I don't don't know how you should rate passing league-wide. There should a lot of minus 10.

Oosterwolde is another one of those athletic players who seems to take the ball up the pitch when he has an opening.  But when he's faced with an opponent, he tends to go for more give-and-go's rather than trying to dribble past them.  But he's just now starting to play regularly this season so we'll obviously continue to monitor him.

Good point about Samet and Serdar.  Centre backs are a bit of a work in progress still.

I generally agree about Irfan's passing.  Something we'll probably need to look at next term.

As for the dichotomy between our willingness to give low attribute vs. others.  As I see it, if one attribute is low, then another is higher.  A player being poor at something isn't the end of the world.  The manager adjusts his tactics so that the poor attribute is required less and the strong attributes are used more to get more out of the player.  Makes for a more interesting game in my opinion.

I really like what you are trying to with attributes and it will look and feel a lot better when it's consistent among at least all turkish league.

I personally always like to put all attributes of the squad into an excel and like to sort from highest to lowest to re-check my editings before i start my career with the clubs I watch.(Fenerbahçe-Tottenham) This can be done with pre-game editor as well but excel provides more options to analyz. This way it is really easy to see some inconsistencies. When I check current Fenerbahçe, I saw İrfan's 12 passing is being in a spot i very disagree. There are more examples but I am not here to highlight all of them.

Most of your customers in Turkey are supporters of three big clubs and I think these three clubs require more attention. Comparing all 3 squads in the way I mentioned might help you as a researcher. Maybe you are already doing this. But there are many things I can not understand. Kerem Aktürkoğlu is rated as 16 vision, I have seen other 15s in Turkish League and then I see Tadic as 15 vision. My personal opinion, that feels very wrong. And I think current and previous years stasts of assists, key passes, xAG, xA, passe/crosser into penalty area would show this. And tadic was playing higher level football in champions league and proved himselft there in multiple seasons.

I have no access turkish league advanced stats but Tadic yast year in Eredivisie:

163 Key passes (%63 more than 2nd place player.)

4.95 Key passes per game. Closest is Gakpo with 4.72 but only  with 1/3 play time. With similar play times are considered to Tadic closest stats belongs Vermaan at 3.62 (rated 15 vision last year). Orkun Kökçü follows with 2.97. 

I think Tadic deserves better vision. At least 16. Maybe more. 

 

@Kane10

We do make these comparisons quite religiously.

However more than individual attributes, I think looking at combinations of attributes that affect things like goal scoring, defending, playmaking, ball carrying etc. is a little more effective in identifying if a player looks out of place.  For example you mention things like xG, xA etc.  These are more closely related to combinations of attributes rather than individual attributes.

We'll certainly keep watching and reconsidering player attributes for Tadic and others.