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  • Overachieving in FM24. 3 Promotions in a row.

    Pasonen

    By Pasonen

      • Files Uploaded: Save Game Public Status: Open Save Game: Easy - Maidstone United fm24 startti v3 menossa.fm
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    Description of issue

    So this is my friends team and he managed to promote third time in a row. We both think the game is way too easy and should give even some challenge. We don't ask HC mode where you spent 10 years in one stage but on the other hand you just can't get everything if you ask nicely. Its demotivating! 

    Uploaded files

    Easy - Maidstone United fm24 startti v3 menossa.fm

     

    Latest promotion from L2 with a title won 16 points to playoff spot.

    image.png.113ecaf22e596d38881b4996396c7d57.png

     

    Some team details from squad planner report. Grey line is the L2 leagues average. My point is to showcase its too easy to get constant results with average attributes.

    Strikers:

    Technicals:

    image.thumb.png.efd671912d64b8ec51dd3e579bb320c0.png
     

    Mentals:

    image.thumb.png.626acbf5b067da7930b76f1f20cd0448.png

    Physicals:

    image.thumb.png.38e1fbb707b75a435983020def7b283b.png

     

    Attacking:

    image.thumb.png.aa8e0c8a94e4e9e981c3954fe25a4189.png

     

    Middlefield attributes:

    image.thumb.png.a325dbe640d4d243e801765e58d3a633.png

     

    Defence

    image.thumb.png.60e9cb1255247672e230f40746ae132d.png

     

    Middlefielders:

    Technicals

    image.thumb.png.acf6626517d03d9d9b36fe601eeb0eb1.png

     

    Mental

    image.thumb.png.f52b66ed773b5c0d5648008acb4b3073.png

     

    Physical

    image.thumb.png.ca50651458f4ed2a58bac22278abbd39.png

     

    Attack

    image.thumb.png.a6e3e0c0889799b58bafa64fb2b2199a.png

     

    Middlefield attributes

    image.thumb.png.2b22425aaf51f0358e76acaa77efe317.png

     

    Defence

    image.thumb.png.5e49c25d420f98673ed80a73b77d1f35.png

     

    Defenders

    Technicals

    image.thumb.png.34304b6e5eae534ad4a80cf6a94117cb.png

     

    Mental

    image.thumb.png.52d38761aefc65887de20e5eff3d5b7c.png

     

    Physical

    image.thumb.png.496aac546c434289081f94f8e3ad6dcb.png

     

    Attack

    image.thumb.png.258556f85eaff5f94ecfbde555e3d03a.png

     

    Middlefield attributes

    image.thumb.png.f76beb2870e1fd6c2b4c844b1e32e6a0.png

     

    Defence

    image.thumb.png.adb7911bf179f2ddde4e5ddc5fd384ae.png

     

    Saving just in case. Continuing on next post.

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    Pasonen

    A mistake in first post. This is the correct values for Defenders Middlefield attributes

    image.thumb.png.7e349493a807b6659306a14ab09e8d38.png

    Goalkeepers:

    Goalkeepers attributes

    image.thumb.png.e27b8cffe076addcda23b8813fd64144.png

     

    Physical

    image.thumb.png.fb94d8f7090bcc673054bc676b504952.png

     

    Mental

    image.thumb.png.e0172c9ef8fc3f2efc1d25da0876f1cf.png

     

    All players

    General. Check the wages hint.

    image.thumb.png.b625be08ff741301615c753203b0476e.png

    Some extra info.

    Vanarama national promotion. Goal difference +91 in first season up.

    image.thumb.png.662943446441e595f0d1565f5c6828db.png

     

    Vanarama National League South

    image.thumb.png.51faf0e2cc6ad8a07714f0a295a8440e.png

     

    edit. 

     

    Just a little observation and question how much single attribute determination affects how players can keep on when hunting promotion? Because that specific attribute was very bad on average. Also Concentration and composure weren't especially good either if you don't count in defenders. I would advice players should at least start feeling the pressure a bit more.

    Edited by Pasonen
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    Razal

    This is definetly a big issue. Over achieving like this removes the feeling you get when you have to actually grind for results like this

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    Pasonen

    Manchester united barely beat mighty Maidstone united in FA Cup. I find it quite odd Maidstone can play short passing high tempo tactic in this game with no problem. Maybe I'm wrong and there's not anything wrong but still if you can check this?

    Uploaded .pkm and .rec

    Edit. I checked this game with comprehensive highlights and some by fast forwarding outside highlights. I started to wonder where are ManU first touch passes and technical superiority and from the physical side speed example. I like the idea that ManU players are not tiny rockets that move 10 steps ahead of maidstone but still it feels something is missing. Still I miss more those ManU passing combos that would break too attacking Maidstone over that physical advantage.

    image.png.fc45d04320e8bd852a7c8da6ce8a146e.png

     

    Tactic, with one difference MBR was Def role not Sup.

     

    image.png.936b5e1de37bec7f5265a2c8c2683ca9.png

    FA cup Maidstone United v Man Utd.pkm match_recording.rec

    Edited by Pasonen
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    Pasonen

    4 years, 4 Promotions. L1 -> CH in this save game. Well at least it wasn't a 1st place :D

    image.thumb.png.ed63115c5f1acfb4f5b5a5e338ca0cd5.png

     

    image.png.fe9686d9a263693732fa791a188d8d96.png

     

    image.png.42b8e1cb44ffbde57ecbeab2c12551e8.png

     

    image.png.1dd5f97fe0857c320393f46464a83623.png

    image.png.dd389fdc3e86be557089c77235be56a1.png

     

    Uploaded files:

    Easy - Maidstone United L1 to CH promotion.fm

     

    Edited by Pasonen
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    Kaze2904

    yep... game is way to easy.. i promoted from 2nd bundesliga in germany and got first place after promotion with a team that should play against relegation

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    Mars_Blackmon

    I believe attributes should have a significant impact on the game. Currently, some aspects of the game are too focused on the meta-game, and players may inadvertently use meta strategies that they are unaware of. This detracts from the overall gameplay experience. I also wonder if players actually follow through with the 5-year plans. In my experience, I have been able to achieve all the objectives of a 5-year plan within 1-2 seasons, unless I intentionally give myself a handicap.

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    jacob_m_mack

    To me, this comes from the fact that users will actually drop players for "form" and will shuffle their lineups to get the best performing players in, which, because certain players perform much better than their CA in the match engine and certain players perform much worse, allows them, through trial and error, to assemble an 11 that is much better than they should be able to get their hands on at their current level. And similarly, the user will tinker with their tactics early on until they find something that overperforms significantly, at which point they basically lock it in and ride with it for the rest of the save. And meanwhile the AI is just using their highest CA lineup (which in all likelihood is far from their best lineup), and a default tactic (which in all likelihood is an awful tactic).

    If you have a "ramp-up league" like the VNL North or South, where the competition is all so terrible that you can walk the league while spending half the year fiddling around with tactics and lineups consequence-free, then, far from the extra promotions adding additional challenge, things actually get to be much easier. Especially since, from that point forwards, your team will be riding a dynamics bomb, where the positive atmosphere at the club produces a feedback loop where the atmosphere gives your players super powers, which leads to more wins, which leads to more atmosphere, which leads to more super powers.

    If SI were to try to fix this I'd suggest two things: 1. The AI actually drops players for poor form and, if the player replacing them performs well then the starting spot is their's to lose from that point forwards. This would let the AI "discover" their best 11 over the course of a season, just as the user does, rather than sticking by players who are horrendous in the match engine but happen to have a high CA.

    And 2. The high end of morale should produce a far less extreme effect. I certainly agree that dynamics are incredibly important, and I think the low-end of morale should definitely produce a very strong feedback loop that can send a talented team spiralling down the table. I think this is clearly re-enforced by real-world examples. But I do not think the flip-side should be true. I do not think that positive vibes can pull a bad team up the table the same way negative ones can drag a good team down. I think togetherness and fluency are extremely important, having a good understanding of your teammates and knowing how they will react to certain situations, but I think this comes from continuity more than it does from atmosphere.

    Two examples of this might be the Arsenal and Newcastle teams from last season: Both teams overperformed relative to what people might have expected in the preseason. And while there were certainly very strong positive atmospheres at those respective clubs, a big part of why they were able to translate that atmosphere onto the pitch was that both sides suffered very few injuries and thus had extremely consistent starting 11s. This let them develop a remarkable degree of fluency and understanding between their players on the pitch. Even if other teams had the depth needed to put similarly talented lineups on the pitch in spite of their injuries, the fact remained that those injuries disrupted the building of fluency and comfort with those lineups, giving an edge to Newcastle and Arsenal.

    I think that shifting the effects of the high end of morale towards Team Cohesion would be a good idea, but I would rename Team Cohesion to Lineup Cohesion, and have it primarily be a representation of the consistency of your starting 11, tracking how frequently the members of your lineup have shared the pitch with each other in recent history, rather than being based on dynamics. This should prevent users from snowballing out of control and could especially prevent users from chaining together promotions to the point of absurdity. After all, the player suffers injuries just like the AI, and will have their Lineup Cohesion consistently disrupted by that, and if they're earning frequent promotions then they'll have to occasionally reset their Lineup Cohesion by turning over their roster to account for the higher competition level. Of course, attempting to ride this togetherness to a high finish without turning the team over should also be an option, as Kieran McKenna's Ipswich Town are showing this season.

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    Pasonen

    @Kyle BrownIf needed I can provide championship stage save too if needed. Anyway.

    - Does SI have any winning % number data from human players?

    - Do SI have opinion why game feels easy "at the moment"?

    - Is this kind of save game reporting beneficial for SI to investigate? Any suggestions if not?

    Thank you for improving ME! It really is getting closer real football.

    Best wishes for all the coders in SI!

     

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    Pasonen

    So.. Anyway :D Here's the first CH season. O m g No promotion, but little birds are singing it's coming up next season :D 

    edit. Promotion save to premier coming up soon.

     

    Uploaded files:

    Easy - Maidstone United CH first season.fm

     

    Some data

    image.png.f3c351cc3c2b1b5357d1d7c1b68f8288.png

    image.thumb.png.a2154fcac43e3269d1a6e5a06c8063bf.png

     

    image.png.4b5665609123d52bc26010fd70cba23e.png

     

    image.png.188e32b35bdc553d51c2062c81c17f95.png

     

    image.png.a115839369873d0642bef45d8e246885.png

     

    image.png.5c00a1c906294da389a6704c88307d3d.png

    Edited by Pasonen
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    Pasonen

    So here's the season with a promotion to Premier League. I don't have the strength to upload many screenshots so lets stick to the basics.

    Uploaded files:

    Easy - Maidstone United Promotion to premier.fm

    image.png.7e152d64150b5a7d968d7757459d3f3b.png

    image.thumb.png.edc794143ab0b63680aeba22bf8011d8.png

    image.png.405f207ecc2a7a74c9915dbf68e20490.png

    image.png.681e650b6661a845d11ced760d1260c6.png

     

    Additional info to compare whole teams mental and physical attributes to league averages

    Mental attributes

    image.thumb.png.2cdce41a9ddea2daffb7b1dad2d75fa6.png

     

    Physical attributes

    image.thumb.png.f8322cdc87022c13ef4191e9693841d1.png

    -----

     

    image.png.cc93e530c4bb4ac589e78baf2cfef465.png

    image.png.47d35e630fbc1b4ef537067e1c31024f.png

    Edited by Pasonen
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    Pasonen

    After promotion to Premier league we finally ran into a serious problems and only a miracle can save my friend from dropping. FINALLY! :D I think it got to do the thing that ME favors atttacking too much at the moment (Goal amounts are supporting this theory). This means when there's enough diffence in attributes you start to get hammered and you just can't defend. Partially this is a good thing of course. I would still really love to hear something from SI concerning this. I will upload the save after season is over.

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    Pasonen

    Premier League first season and relegation. This is how much it needed difference in attributes to be hard ;D ;D

    Uploaded files:

    Easy - Maidstone Premier league and relegation.fm

    image.thumb.png.be5fc0f94a1bdef15e8d1ff51a8475e1.png

     

     

    Comparisons

    WAGES

    image.png.52d460c31af69e0460a9ecb2b1356041.png

     

    STRIKERS

    image.thumb.png.bd546dc2a6baf13b45b7a90551d6bd64.png

    image.thumb.png.eac709efc893f8a0415a8b98399c70de.png

    image.thumb.png.619a4a7e8fbc015635afb8667e94ef35.png

    image.thumb.png.7d4bb8969604880f2ef53b039540244d.png

    image.thumb.png.f9112a8d5e5dba8430d386d352a3fc06.png

    image.thumb.png.36002f21a3ea17069bc7fa74ea006dcc.png

     

    MIDDLEFIELDERS

    image.thumb.png.4ef9f4e24ac040b603428417dcee3c43.png

    image.thumb.png.35ea2abac1e563f1b150fdebe2bf0756.png

    image.thumb.png.d11af5762aebb241a19f893c2c32eaad.png

    image.thumb.png.98253c9a4ad95bc0328c721d3a2553df.png

    image.thumb.png.f269bd7c3ed01d06af54aa08ee2af464.png

     

    image.thumb.png.b3106681b6def645a65f8ab7c33cbed0.png

     

    DEFENDERS

    image.thumb.png.7f06d71187bbbad4d5d1b3f1fab8a593.png

    image.thumb.png.c7f766bf2f79b2830c5ae62d3ece53de.png

    image.thumb.png.c2804f819bce5211df826c01b9728510.png

    image.thumb.png.a86a1254c1da800908bdfcf277946bbf.png

    image.thumb.png.ac3e599bbc941d05288e994e9954d1c4.png

    image.thumb.png.56288c321b82b2611850fb0fcd0e2338.png

     

    GOALKEEPERS

    image.thumb.png.9513a6f980170f8e9b804e1ff37ec90d.png

    image.thumb.png.4a7bb4e2ef9f404ca9b9e65937ccb0fe.png

    image.thumb.png.fd3f042f4734e59777769ccf66988586.png

    Edited by Pasonen
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