cinch Premiership Data discussion

58 minutes ago, ATW said:

Hi.  Thank you for post, but your conclusion is incorrect.  Kyogo finishing ability is higher than Morelos' in game.  

Have you run tests, by playing as both Rangers and Celtic, and as well as letting AI do it's thing.   

Hi, Thanks for your reply. What evidence do you have to support your claim that Kyogo's finishing attribute is higher than Morelos in the game? I have provided attributes for both players based on the post winter update for the 22/23 season on PS5 console edition.

I have provided factual evidence to support my claim that their is inconsistency in the awarding of the finishing attribute. Can you explain why a player with a conversion rate of 1.5% has the same finishing ability as a player with  23.8%

Let me give you one more example to make my point.

Alexandro Bernabei has a finishing attribute of 12. Technique 13 Anticipation 11 composure 12 concentration 11 decisions 12

He has played  as a Right Back at Celtic since signing at the start of the 22/23 season. When you look at his statistics for attacking returns there is no data attributed to any of  attacking metrics I have used to provide evidence. In conclusion it is fair comment to suggest his 12 finishing is significantly too high which calls into question the validity of other attribute awards.

I am happy to engage in debate around the pro's and cons of the evidence I provide, but in future if you are going to claim my conclusions are wrong I will only engage if you provide data to substantiate  your reply's.

No, you have provided attribute numbers, without taking into account what they do when put altogether.  Not to mention not taking into consideration real life performances.  Kyogo, isn't devastating because of his raw finishing ability, but because of his sublime movement, and the tactics Celtic employ to get the very best out of him.  If anything that's where you you should be questioning, have we got this part of his game right?  

 

As for proof.  I ran a 2x 1 season test and Kyogo topped the goal scoring charts in both, with in 1 no player getting within 15 goals of him in the league. 

What in game tests have you ran? 

 

On 10/03/2023 at 09:46, ATW said:

What in game tests have you ran? 

 

I have ran test games and posted links to screenshots but had zero feedback or even acknowledgement. Its kinda off putting when you put the time and effort into researching and running tests and then provide feedback which is ignored.

On 03/03/2023 at 17:55, ATW said:

Because he played 14 league games this season FFS.  It's a winter update 

The winter update should be the best update, Researchers and updaters have access to 6 or 7 months of data and time to have a good look at which players and teams are performing and those who arent.  Team line ups should be spot on and players perfroming well irl should be doing the same in FM. There are players who havent came off the bench in the last 8 or 9 games and cant get in the team yet are top of the avg rating list at the end of a test season when they shouldnt even be in the team.

 

This is in no way a dig at anybody giving up their free time to update for us, i really want to help get Scotland spot on for every body.

I was an updater for 01/02 for 15 years or so, still am, and our winter update was the pride and joy of our work.

Im really keen to help out here as well. but we need feedback from updaters to discuss things.

 

cheers

 

Summer updates are a shot in the dark, you have no way of knowing whichh player will have which form etc

Ang speaking about Kobayashi, I think he was one of the players spoken about as being under rated. From memory he also has something like 8 stamina?

Turnbull the best player in the lge?? He can't get  off the bench irl.

Hatate not getting in team, he was spoken about lots previous to the winter update.

First touch at Celtic end of first season,

 

Haska, Jota and Hatate should all have higher and also be the highest in the squad, O'riley is very good and has great tech but not the same as they 3 guys

The stamina of part time players should not be on the same level or indeed above that of pro players at Scotlands champions?

Big Ange was a liverpool fan growing up, maybe add them as a fav club as well?

Carl Starfelt and CCV should maybe be favoured staff of each other, they have not played in a losing Celtic game anytime they have both started the game, that is some going in nearly 20 months.

 

CCV is the best defender in Scotland, He should have his strength increased, also heading as i have rarely seen him beaten in the air, maybe acc up a touch as well as he can cover the ground, somenthing all Celtic defenders need is pace/acc due to the way the team plays.

 

1 hour ago, bigbeezer said:

Carl Starfelt and CCV should maybe be favoured staff of each other, they have not played in a losing Celtic game anytime they have both started the game, that is some going in nearly 20 months.

 

CCV is the best defender in Scotland, He should have his strength increased, also heading as i have rarely seen him beaten in the air, maybe acc up a touch as well as he can cover the ground, somenthing all Celtic defenders need is pace/acc due to the way the team plays.

 

Appreciate both your points, favoured personnel is something that can be looked into in the future and I agree with your Carter Vickers best in the league statement but cant dictate what other Researchers rate their players, CCV is a standout in this league and also impressed in Europe

In fairness the only person that comes close to Carter Vickers in Terms of Ability is Goldson which is reflected in the game

2 hours ago, bigbeezer said:

Big Ange was a liverpool fan growing up, maybe add them as a fav club as well?

Already in the game and has been since Ange came

14 minutes ago, Logan1888 said:

Already in the game and has been since Ange came

Perfect mate,

cheers

18 minutes ago, Logan1888 said:

In fairness the only person that comes close to Carter Vickers in Terms of Ability is Goldson which is reflected in the game

Starfelt should be up with Goldson? Great defender at reading the game, but has one rash moment a game with slack passing lol

What about player traits?

Are they entered by updaters?

 

cheers

6 minutes ago, bigbeezer said:

What about player traits?

Are they entered by updaters?

 

cheers

Player Traits are added and removed by Researchers aye

Traits are fairly difficult to accurately pin on players as players could play completely different in a different system or at a different club so is it really a players trait or more the way he’s being instructed to play

Players can also pick up traits by giving them individual training or from players they’re being Tutored by

Edited March 12, 2023 by Logan1888
Additional text

1 minute ago, Logan1888 said:

Player Traits are added and removed by Researchers aye

Traits are fairly difficult to accurately pin on players as players could play completely different in a different system or at a different club so is it really a players trait or more the way he’s being instructed to play

Abada has - Tries tricks [hes not like a jota, much more direct] cuts inside from both wings, hugs line [doesnt that contradict with each other?] Likes to beat opponent repeatedly [thats not right,  hes not really a dribbling winger at all]  runs with ball often, [hmm, more of a running into space/onto through balls type mayeb?]

2 minutes ago, bigbeezer said:

Abada has - Tries tricks [hes not like a jota, much more direct] cuts inside from both wings, hugs line [doesnt that contradict with each other?] Likes to beat opponent repeatedly [thats not right,  hes not really a dribbling winger at all]  runs with ball often, [hmm, more of a running into space/onto through balls type mayeb?]

I agree with you that he’s more direct and less of a showboater but this was added during his time in Israel 

Hug the line is more his position when seeking to get on the ball keeping him wide as ange likes to do but he also tends to cut inside when in possession 

10 minutes ago, Logan1888 said:

I agree with you that he’s more direct and less of a showboater but this was added during his time in Israel 

Hug the line is more his position when seeking to get on the ball keeping him wide as ange likes to do but he also tends to cut inside when in possession 

Cheers,

 

He shouldnt be a regular just now either, He ends up being Celtics best player in most tests i have done, whlist Hatate hardly plays, Wee Hatate is top class, must be a shout for player of the year, alongside Mooy and CCV?

Here is Abada in the latest test today.

Moreloss scoring more than Kyogo.

Also,

Regarding Alastair Johnston,

Celtic have not missed Juranovic one bit since he arrived, I think that he is also a better defender than JJ was, He is strong as well despite his short stature, Very determined, Fit as a fiddle, has some engine on him and a good turn of pace which is a prerequisite for any celtic defender under ange, and should have a decent ca/pa.

 

cheers

1 hour ago, bigbeezer said:

Moreloss scoring more than Kyogo.

This isn’t helpful. RNG for on one play through could see anything happen, like hearts getting relegated for example that wouldn’t mean we have underrated hearts it’s just a one off random number generated season.

If Morelos was out scoring Kyogo every single time you do a play through then maybe it would be something worth posting about.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Yer Maw