ReeNah Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 :DHello all! Hey I am currently using Newcastle and I play a 4-1-2-2-1 formation. I use 1 DMC and 2 MCs and 2 AMF/Wingers and I have Cardozo playing up front, I dont know if I should have him target man or not... Or hold ball up etc.. Anyways question: If I want my wingers to be my scorers by cutting in, running off Cardozo or just running it into the goal how should I set this up? Like do I need to change only the wingers settings or change the whole team dynamics? Thanks! ReeNah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Have them run with ball often, mentality at first notch of attacking, mixed through balls and long-shots (unless they're awful at them) and rarely cross ball. If they're already in the AMR/L slot, mixed forward runs or they'll become isolated. If possible, have them swap positions - a right footer on the left wing will naturally cut in more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolobok Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 In addition to what ZdlR said, ask your FBs to cross from byline. It will bring FBs upfront, forcing wingers to clear the zone and therefore cut in. Also, if wingers have appropriate attributes (creativity and flair) give them more creative freedom. Btw, in my experience mentality has nothing to do with cutting in. Moreover, if their decision stats are not too high, attacking mentality is not good at all, unless the rest of your team also has quite attacking mentality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJoe Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 :DHello all!Hey I am currently using Newcastle and I play a 4-1-2-2-1 formation. I use 1 DMC and 2 MCs and 2 AMF/Wingers and I have Cardozo playing up front, I dont know if I should have him target man or not... Or hold ball up etc.. Anyways question: If I want my wingers to be my scorers by cutting in, running off Cardozo or just running it into the goal how should I set this up? Like do I need to change only the wingers settings or change the whole team dynamics? Thanks! ReeNah You need to play more directly. This will make the wingers cut inside more. As for the striker you definately need him to hold up the ball and be very strong because since he has no strike partener he'll need to wait for support from the wingers and CMs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Btw, in my experience mentality has nothing to do with cutting in. Moreover, if their decision stats are not too high, attacking mentality is not good at all, unless the rest of your team also has quite attacking mentality. Agreed with the decisions, however, a normal mentality assumes support play whereas an attacking mentality assumes that the player will try to be on the end of support, rather than giving it - ie: inside the box. Their risk/reward will be increased and they will consider themselves allowed to run at the defence into the box. n addition to what ZdlR said, ask your FBs to cross from byline. It will bring FBs upfront, forcing wingers to clear the zone and therefore cut in. I agree with the ends but not the means. If the FB finds himself with the ball and in the final third, he will indeed push further up to the byline before crossing. This doesn't instruct him to get into the final third, that's a product of his mentality and his forward runs instruction. With a 4-1-2-2-1 you are generally playing defensive full backs because the wingers - unless they have high teamwork and workrate - will not track back as much as in a 4-4-2. So, the full backs will probably have a sub-11 mentality so that they generally defend. To override this I'd give them forward runs often, if required. Coupled with their low mentality, they will get forward and support rather than attack - which could leave you vulnerable to counters on the wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolobok Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Agreed with the decisions, however, a normal mentality assumes support play whereas an attacking mentality assumes that the player will try to be on the end of support, rather than giving it - ie: inside the box. Their risk/reward will be increased and they will consider themselves allowed to run at the defence into the box.I agree with the ends but not the means. If the FB finds himself with the ball and in the final third, he will indeed push further up to the byline before crossing. This doesn't instruct him to get into the final third, that's a product of his mentality and his forward runs instruction. With a 4-1-2-2-1 you are generally playing defensive full backs because the wingers - unless they have high teamwork and workrate - will not track back as much as in a 4-4-2. So, the full backs will probably have a sub-11 mentality so that they generally defend. To override this I'd give them forward runs often, if required. Coupled with their low mentality, they will get forward and support rather than attack - which could leave you vulnerable to counters on the wing. I play this formation with normal global mentality (10), with the exceptions of DCs and DMC, whose mentality is even lower. Once my FB (FWR=mixed, cross from byline) comes closer to the area (with or without a ball), my winger gets in the area immediately, with or without the ball depending if he has it atm. It either leads to an empty zone that my FBs moves into, or simply to a scoring chance for winger. FWR=often for FB often causes him to appear somewhere in the area rather than down the flank and I don't want it. Increasing mentality generally increases player's tendency to attempt risky move/pass. In many cases it just results in shots from crazy positions or simply rush plays. So, I am a strict opponent of mentality above normal, and I ultimately believe that altering mentality across players destroys compactness of the team. Switching between attack and defense is easily achieved using tempo, width, defensive line, closing down, and passing. Btw, I read the advice to setup wingers as you suggested earlier this year. I tried it, and ended up decreasing their menatlities back to normal, because they were giving up the ball way too often to my taste:) As for TigerJoe advice: no, not necessary, and not necessary:). You don't have to play more directly (passing = 1 works just as great), and hence you don't need your ST hold up the ball (with short passing he would slow down attack, which is not good at all), and hence he does not need to be very strong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Fair enough, horses for courses and all that. How were your wingers giving the ball away? If it was will hollywood passes I've got mine set to short passing and they've got fairly low creative freedom. They're pretty one-dimensional as wingers go, but it works for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolobok Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Fair enough, horses for courses and all that. How were your wingers giving the ball away? If it was will hollywood passes I've got mine set to short passing and they've got fairly low creative freedom. They're pretty one-dimensional as wingers go, but it works for me. Mate, I am not saying your setup won't work, I am just sharing my experience. After all, the exact setup depends on overall style. With higher mentality my wingers positioned themselves a bit higher on the field, giving defs a chance to interecept the ball before a winger gets it; in those cases when wingers would get the ball, 90% of the cases they would try to run with the ball, being dispossed in maybe 75% of those cases. It was especially bad against strong teams. Finally, once they cut in, they would take a shot 95% of a time, whilst now after cutting in they quite often drop the ball a bit back to arriving MC or to an empty zone for FB. As a result, I see what I wanted to see - a TEAM playing and AI not knowing where the real danger would come from . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeNah Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Okay... Question why is it so hard to get tactically to get your wingers to cut and shoot... Jeez cant they have a PPM... Surely a real manager wont have to tell his players to have a high mentality and the fullbacks to cross from byline often so that whatever whatever ever... Does everyone think so to? Definately if you had a striker who was strong to hold up ball and have wingers run off him that makes sense but the rest of it is all garbage if you ask me... Anyways great game still but yeah too hard in this aspect... Cheers, ReeNah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJoe Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 In FM10 it's going to be a lot easier to do these instructions so don't worry about it too much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeNah Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 Awesome!! Cheers! ReeNah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolobok Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 Okay... Question why is it so hard to get tactically to get your wingers to cut and shoot... Jeez cant they have a PPM... Surely a real manager wont have to tell his players to have a high mentality and the fullbacks to cross from byline often so that whatever whatever ever... Does everyone think so to?Definately if you had a striker who was strong to hold up ball and have wingers run off him that makes sense but the rest of it is all garbage if you ask me... Anyways great game still but yeah too hard in this aspect... Cheers, ReeNah Not so much of a garbage, if you ask me. Football is really more complicated game, than simply tell player:"cut in!". The team should operate as a unit. So, when a winger is going to cut in, he is leaving his zone. It has 2 implications: 1)Someone should cover for him meaning if he loses the ball there is no empty space where the opposition players can take time and make a good pass and start attack or simply run with the ball down the flank; 2)Someone should support the winger and provide an alternative option for him instead of shooting. FB, asked to cross from byline, and box-to-box MC, arriving late, are the best 2 options. If you watched yesterday's CL final, you could see that Puyol played the exact role for Messi, and Silvinho supported Henry on the other side. The difference was that Henry played more like a classical cut-in winger, whilst Messi had a free role. The best illustration would be if Puyol scored when he had one-on-one. On the other hand, neither O'Shea nor Evra provided enough support to ManUtd wingers (probably because they were afraid of leaving Messi and/or Henry alone), and it was relatively easy for Barca defs to push those wingers to sidelines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeNah Posted May 30, 2009 Author Share Posted May 30, 2009 Kolobok yes I totally understand what you mean. However it is way to complicated... However as TigerJoe said it'll change for the next version easier to understand. How come there is no PPM for cut and shoot? Cheers, ReeNah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kolobok Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Kolobok yes I totally understand what you mean. However it is way to complicated... However as TigerJoe said it'll change for the next version easier to understand. How come there is no PPM for cut and shoot?Cheers, ReeNah What I suspect though, in FM10 we will have a problem that people will ask their wingers to cut in and then report something like: "I asked player A to cut in and he loses ball all the time and I am exposed to counter-attack" or "he cuts in but cannot take a clear shot". And we are back to square one - there is not too many truly individual settings in football. Because in reality you would need to say: "Ok, CR, you cut in whenever you can, and Evra, you must cover for him once he started to cut in, so that he can drop ball to an empty zone if he feels he cannot go through, and Fletcher, you move to zone A to make sure you pick up a lose ball" etc. Hence, I believe people should understand general tactical setup. Otherwise it sounds like a child: "I want that toy!!!!" even though he has no idea what to do with falloimitator:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeNah Posted May 31, 2009 Author Share Posted May 31, 2009 Jeez yes very complicated... Is there such thing as a perfect system? Confused, ReeNah Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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