Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 I recently finished my second season with Manchester City and although I finished a very respectable 5th place, I can't help by feel disappointed. The reason for my disappointment is how close I was to finishing 4th and qualifying for the Champions League. I actually finished level on points with Liverpool, with an identical won, drawn, lost record and amazingly an identical goals for and goals against record. I checked the two league results between the teams and both games resulted in 1-1 draws! Having checked all the above information, I can only conclude that I finished 5th based on alphabetical order!!!! How annoying is that?!? Missing out on millions of pounds of worth of Champions League TV Revenue because of alphabetical order?!?! Has anyone else experienced this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I recently finished my second season with Manchester City and although I finished a very respectable 5th place, I can't help by feel disappointed. The reason for my disappointment is how close I was to finishing 4th and qualifying for the Champions League. I actually finished level on points with Liverpool, with an identical won, drawn, lost record and amazingly an identical goals for and goals against record. I checked the two league results between the teams and both games resulted in 1-1 draws! Having checked all the above information, I can only conclude that I finished 5th based on alphabetical order!!!! How annoying is that?!? Missing out on millions of pounds of worth of Champions League TV Revenue because of alphabetical order?!?! Has anyone else experienced this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWaRFeGa Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 It would not be decided alphabetically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWaRFeGa Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 "If points are equal, the goal difference and then goals scored determine the positions. If still equal, teams are deemed to occupy the same position. If there is a tie for the championship, for relegation, or for qualification to other competitions, a play-off match at a neutral venue decides rank." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar2000 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Can you post a screen shot of the league table? I dont believe you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I'm with Dar2000, but I thought I'd let someone else be impolite first Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruzzy Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 This is the closest league finish i have seen and there is quite a difference in goal difference Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Thank you for your quick response. No play off game took place! I was half expecting a play off game to be arranged, but when that didn't happen, I concluded that it ranked the teams on alphabetical order! The only other logical explanation I could come up with was that the teams were ranked according to the order of the co-efficients. Could this be a possible explanation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilliconcarnie Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 check out your teams disciplinary record, dont they then take that into account if all as you said was equal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ched Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SWaRFeGa: "If points are equal, the goal difference and then goals scored determine the positions. If still equal, teams are deemed to occupy the same position. If there is a tie for the championship, for relegation, or for qualification to other competitions, a play-off match at a neutral venue decides rank." </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm guessing that doesn't happen in FM then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWaRFeGa Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ched: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SWaRFeGa: "If points are equal, the goal difference and then goals scored determine the positions. If still equal, teams are deemed to occupy the same position. If there is a tie for the championship, for relegation, or for qualification to other competitions, a play-off match at a neutral venue decides rank." </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm guessing that doesn't happen in FM then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I've seen two threads on this subject in my time on the forums, and both were decided with this play-off system. I think we'd need to have a look at this league table for clarification. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaberdeenn Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I think it's disciplinary record next. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sthptngomad76 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'm guessing that doesn't happen in FM then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm pretty certain that it does happen in FM. There was a thread just this week on something like this just this week where there was a playoff for 17th spot and safety... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaberdeenn Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Well I think that would be more likely to be in the game than the play-off game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaberdeenn Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Hmm, maybe it does happen in FM. I've never seen and really would need evidence to believe it if some could find this thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWaRFeGa Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Need clarification on the league table, and who won the Champions League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SWaRFeGa: Need clarification on the league table, and who won the Champions League. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I'll see what I can do! I'll check who won the Champions League and save a couple of screenshots when I get in from work a little later on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar2000 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chrisrhys: The only other logical explanation I could come up with was that the teams were ranked according to the order of the co-efficients. Could this be a possible explanation? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> In FM the rules for sorting the group stages of the UEFA Cup list the co-efficients(not sure if it's the same irl but I imagine it is if it's in the game), so maybe FM uses this for domestic leagues too. That is presuming you are telling the truth as we are yet to see a screenshot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dar2000: In FM the rules for sorting the group stages of the UEFA Cup list the co-efficients(not sure if it's the same irl but I imagine it is if it's in the game), so maybe FM uses this for domestic leagues too. That is presuming you are telling the truth as we are yet to see a screenshot </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes! I'm telling the truth...honest! I'm at work at the moment and the game is question is on my personal computer at home! Unfortunately, I won't get in until 6pm, so you'll just have to sit tight for a little while longer! I posted the topic this morning to see if anybody had experienced the same.....I didn't realised I'd get quite the level of response that I have had!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I do remember a while back someone posting a thread about a "39th game" on here, complete with a screenshot showing that a playoff game had taken place in the EPL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa30 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 what was the results in your games against liverpool, if you had lost against them then this would count towards then being awarded 4th place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 From original post: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chrisrhys: I checked the two league results between the teams and both games resulted in 1-1 draws! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWaRFeGa Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by villa30: what was the results in your games against liverpool, if you had lost against them then this would count towards then being awarded 4th place </div></BLOCKQUOTE> He said they were both 1-1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 it wont be decided on alphabetical order, there mus be somethnig seperating you or else there would have been a playoff, iv eseeb them and seen screen shots of them. if liverpool won the champions league there would be no need to settle it as you wouldnt have qualified if you were fourth and them fifth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 No, believe me, there was NOTHING separating us! And no, Liverpool DID NOT win the Champions League! I'll load up my game when I get in tonight and see if I can save a couple of screenshots! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neji Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Link to thread this is one of the threads where someone has seen a playoff so it does seem to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C(r)ouch Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The closest finish I witnessed on my own skin was in 06 when I was Wigan and we were struggling to survive in the Premiership but we did thanks to a 92nd minute goal by Oscar Cardozo, after Taylor (I reckon) centered the ball from the center of the pitch into the 16 meter box where Cardozo powered a header home to save us from relegetion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 I've finally been able to save a screenshot of the final league table, but I am unsure as to how to upload it....can anybody kindly assist me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 imageshack.net Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arsenal_2111 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chrisrhys: I've finally been able to save a screenshot of the final league table, but I am unsure as to how to upload it....can anybody kindly assist me? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> To post a screenshot: 1. Open what you want to print and then press the "print screen" button on your keyboard (usually 3rd from top right). 2. Open Paint and paste there. Save. 3. Upload the picture to a image-hosting website like www.photobucket.com or www.imageshack.com 4. Provide the link here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucho_ Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 This is an interesting thread. Hope you can get that screenshot up soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 I'm not too sure if my attempts have been successful, but try the link below & see what you get!!! Keep your fingers crossed as i've never done this sort of thing before! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonmcjones Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Now that's what I call tight. Tight like a Tiger! I'm guessing you finnished 5th on disciplinary record... have you checked the yell/red card stats for both clubs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Sadly, i've since started the following season and therefore I don't think I can check the disciplinary records now! It's still absolutely gutting to know that I could've missed out on the Champions League due to more yellow cards!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amaroq Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Not to ask a dumb question, but, Chrisrhys, have you verified that Liverpool actually are playing Champions League footy the third season? There would be no need for a playoff, according to the EPL rules, if there were no impact on qualification for other competitions. If England has lost a spot, which I've seen happen, maybe you're both in the UEFA Cup and the game just let it go at that? Here's a thread, including screenshot, which shows that the game does do a playoff if necessary: in the case linked to, the 39th game was played between the tied-for-5th-place teams. Premiership 39th game?!?!? Play-off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Don't worry Amaroq, it's a perfectly legitimate question. The answer is yes, they are playing in the Champions League. They have just beaten Young Boys 6-0 on aggregate to qualify for the Group phase, whereas I have got to play Saturn from Russia to qualify for the UEFA cup group phase! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
turn it upto 11 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 it doesnt go on yellow cards, you were robbed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Yes, I sure as hell feel robbed too!!! If nothing else it has given me extra motivation to finish in the Champions League qualification places this season. I'm also determined to make doubly sure that I give Liverpool a beating!!! I'd love to have the chance before the Liverpool game to tell the players during the teamtalk "Seek revenge for the thieving gits stealing the Champions League spot last season!!!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Are you absolutely 100% sure that both matches ended 1-1 between you last season and that you didn't accidentally look at a cup match or pick up the result just above or below the Liverpool one? Not trying to suggest you are stupid, obviously, I have done plenty of stupid things like that and been absolutely sure of something only to look back again later and sheepishly realise I looked at the wrong result! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Freddie Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'd report it in the Bugs section just to see what kind of response you get from SI? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 I'm pretty sure, but I don't have the saved game with me to make doubly sure. I remember them knocked me out of the FA Cup at the 3rd round stage 3-2.....with a goal from Torres in the second minute of stoppage time! So it would appear that Liverpool have become my bogey team!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty_8 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 In my last season, me(Arsenal), Chelsea and Man Utd finished the season with 81 points. I finished 3rd on goal difference, throwing it awa by drawing 2-2 at home with Blackburn after being 2-0 up on final day. Biggest bottle of my career and closest finish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisrhys Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 I DEFINATELY feel robbed after reading this article, taken from the Official Premier League Handbook: "22. If any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points their position in the table shall be determined on goal difference, that is to say, the difference between the total number of goals scored by and against a Club in League Matches in that Season, and the higher or highest placed Club shall be the Club with the higher or highest goal difference. 23. If any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points and have the same goal difference the higher or highest placed Club shall be the Club having scored the most goals in League Matches in that Season. 24. Subject to Rule B.31, if any 2 or more Clubs have scored the same number of points, have the same goal difference and have scored the same number of goals in League Matches in that Season they shall be deemed to occupy the same position in the table." UNBELIEVABLE!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar2000 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dar2000: Can you post a screen shot of the league table? I dont believe you </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry for doubting you chrisrhys ! I would guess that the co-efficients came into effect, but would be nice to hear what SI think about it. I know there has been cases of a '39th game' in previous versions but has anyone seen one in FM08? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 *points vaguely up the thread to clicky links posted by others to the relevant thread regarding the 39th game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the best at fm 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 IT IS TO DO WITH CO-EFFICIENTS IT HAPPEND ON MINE BEFORE I WAS CHELSEA AND ARSENAL HAD THE SAME AS ME I.E GOAL DIF AND GOALS SCORED ETC BUT I WON THE CHAMPO LEAGUE TWICE IN A ROW RANKED FIRST IN EUROPE THEN SO IT IS CO-EFFICENTS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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