*Official FMS Challenge 2005 #2 - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

[Peacemaker7]

Before I announce the result, a quick overview of the voting system used in this round. (And which will be used if we do it this way again, which seems likely). All votes were tallied without reference to prefence. If there was a tie, then the challenge with the most number of first votes cast would be the winner, if that was tied the second votes and so on.

For the Final vote, it will be the opposite in a sense in that we will still order each Challenge in preference but only first votes will count. If no challenge has at least 50% of the first votes, the lowest scoring challenge will drop out and the 2nd preference votes from that will come into play until we have a winner. The voting system is not open to debate.

[Peacemaker7]

Before I announce the result, a quick overview of the voting system used in this round. (And which will be used if we do it this way again, which seems likely). All votes were tallied without reference to prefence. If there was a tie, then the challenge with the most number of first votes cast would be the winner, if that was tied the second votes and so on.

For the Final vote, it will be the opposite in a sense in that we will still order each Challenge in preference but only first votes will count. If no challenge has at least 50% of the first votes, the lowest scoring challenge will drop out and the 2nd preference votes from that will come into play until we have a winner. The voting system is not open to debate.

[Peacemaker7]

1st Round Results

No Surrender 9

Summer Holidays 8

Anneka 2 7

Ancient Rome 6*

Colonia 6*

Football Mania 5

Unnamed - Jeff 3

Judas 3

University 2

All other challenges recieved one or no votes.

(*Roman challenges is selected by having more 1st preference votes)

[Peacemaker7]

Challenge Finalist #1

Anneka's Challenge – Take 2 (by binny)

Your name is Rushind Anneka (or similar); born and bred in Angola (or Papua New Guinea - see later). You end up in a country where the standard of domestic football is not as high as in a neighbouring country, and somehow, you end up with a job in the lowest (playable) tier.

THE AIM

--------------------------------------------------

To take your chosen club as far as possible in the lesser leauges and keep an up to date story on your progress. The higher you get and the more trophys you pick up, the better. However once you feel you are established enough in the lesser country your main aim shall be to leapfrog from there to the neighbouring country (third tier at best, or lowest tier available). To victory in the major Continental competition with your new side will be what wins the challenge for you.

ANY CATCHES?

-------------------------------------------------

Yes Actually, Just two though.

1* You must stick with the same club in the lesser league throughout, and mirror this loyalty in the superior league. If you are sacked, you fail.

2* You must take one of your youth players which you have nurtured since you began there to the superiro league with you. This is any player who has come through your youth system (i.e. not signed); age is irrelevant.

List of lesser and superior countries (you only need to choose one combination) - subject to change

Wales/N Ireland/Rep Ireland/Scotland; England

Portugal; Spain - If you choose this option, your nationality must be Papuan Austria; Germany Belgium; France/Holland Switzerland; Italy Iceland; Denmark Finland; Norway/Sweden Belarus/Ukraine; Russia Slovakia; Czech Republic Slovenia; Croatia/Serbia & Montenegro Hungary/Bulgaria; Romania USA; Mexico - If you choose this option, your nationality must be Papuan Hong Kong; China Singapore/Malaysia; Indonesia Uruguay/Peru/Chile/Colombia; Argentina/Brazil - If you choose this option, your nationality must be Papuan South Korea; Japan (if you are playing a CM version of the challenge).

Challenge Finalist #2

Ancient History Re-Write - Roman Only by Brian of Nazareth

Stage 1 - Home Rule

Starting off in Rome with a Roman elite side - start by ensuring Rome is the

leading club, by claiming all major honours at domestic level. Of course,

each match squad must contain pure-bred Italians, and no half measures

either - purely Italian.

Stage 2 - Asia Minor

With Rome in safe hands, you decide to venture further abroad to expand the

empire. First on the list is Turkey, where with your expertise, you should

be able to comfortably take the honours at your disposal, though of course

this will be achieved by bringing with you 2 players of your choice from

Roma/Lazio. Of course, in your final season before you leave, at least 60%

of your first team must be left behind.

Stage 3 Veni Vidi Vici

stage where you go and conquor England with a club from the south east.

Claim the Premiership title with a Bournemouth, Southampton, Portsmouth,

Brighton etc. Employing Italian scouts and coaches is of course a bonus.

This is only a brief stop but once more the Italian presence must be left

behind with 6 of your first teamers left behind - including your captain.

Stage 4 Germania

Now then, ordered to fight here by Maximus Deridius the challenge is bring

your companions along with you once more, as they aid the overhaul of the

Bundesliga. As per usual domestic honours and leave strong quota of Italians

behind - at least a 60% majority of your first team.

Stage 5 The Republic Is Dying!

Argh, with the Republic dying from political feuds and the return of the

Emperor on the horizon under Augustus, you must return home to revitalise a

decadent city. Take control of the lowest Roman / Naples side - presumably

will be Napoli. Hopefully there's be at least one in a lower league. With

greater social acceptance foreigners aren't quite so outlawed although the

citizens still believe in the air superiority, so there can only be a

maximum of 5 outsiders in your match squad. Win Italian honours, and then

claim the Champions League. Rome Rule once again and restore pride to the

Empire.

Optional Stage: As a mark of the nations dominance, glory should be achieved

with a World Cup triumph - but this can be achieved at any stage in the

challenge.

Challenge Finalist #3

The Summer Holidays Challenge by Peacemaker7

Stage 1 – The UK

As you are a young adult, not yet established in your career, your choice of holidays is limited to the UK and Ireland. To reflect this you can start your career at any club in a UK holiday destination of your choice. The only limits are they must be lower than the top league in Scotland, N Ireland, and the Republic and lower than the Championship in England.

(ie Torquay, Bournemouth, Blackpool, Ayr etc)

Once you have guided your club to be the Champions of their country, you are ready to take holidays abroad

Stage 2 – The Mediterranean

At this stage you can choose to holiday in Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Turkey or Greece. Choose a team from a coastal resort in the country of your choice, outwith the top division and guide them to a European trophy either Champions League or UEFA Cup.

(teams to be worked out)

Stage 3 – The Orient

Take a team from Japan, Korea, China, Malaysia or Indonesia and guide them to continental success. Any team is allowed.

Stage 4 – The World Tour

Take any of the countries you have managed in and try to win the World Cup. You must at least get passed the first group stage of the finals to progress to the next stage of the challenge.

Stage 5- Back to the Future

Old age is a time for reminiscing. Take over your original team, and win the Champions League or UEFA Cup three times

Once that’s done the challenge is over and you have died.

Challenge Finalist #4

The No Surrender Challenge by Raptor

An FMS Challenge designed to suit both single and multiplayer games, the No Surrender Challenge is about stopping the Fourth Reich (a.k.a. European Union) in its tracks. Or helping it supersede nation states as we know it, whatever takes your fancy you part-time Hitler. Bear in mind you’d be a fascist, globalist pig if you choose the latter

Phase 1

Erm, actually, non of this “Phase x†boll0cks. Welcome to the most non-linear challenge in the stories forum’s history. Your only restriction (in honour of The Kevin Keegan Challenge ) is that you have to start outside the top flight of your chosen starting league.

So, no path to follow, and some vague ramblings about stopping the EU… How do we go about this? Well, as you know, some folks are happy with the union, others despise it. That’s what we invented democracy for: we sit down, talk things over, and have the majority of our democratically elected representatives decide what happens next. Right? RIGHT?! Well, not in the EU. The European Parliament is a paper tiger as we tend to say in the Netherlands, a powerless group of parliamentary rejects, a bunch of money-draining bureaucrats and a lot who quite frankly [deleted to keep secret service from Casa Raptor]. We’re talking about 700+ people here, whose voices and votes mean next to f*ck all. But we’ll use their balance of “power†as the basis for this challenge’s points nevertheless (pre-planned post-2009 figures). I’m sure they’ll sleep well tonight, knowing that for the first time in 25 years, they were good for something. So below you’ll find the number of Challenge Points up for grabs for every EU nation. This includes Romania and Bulgaria, who will join the Union in 2007.

Pts/Country

___________________________

99 Germany

72 United Kingdom

72 France

72 Italy

50 Spain

50 Poland

33 Romania

25 Netherlands

22 Greece

22 Belgium

22 Portugal

20 Czech Republic

20 Hungary

18 Sweden

17 Austria

17 Bulgaria

13 Slovakia

13 Denmark

13 Finland

12 Ireland

12 Lithuania (not selectable)

8 Latvia (not selectable)

7 Slovenia

6 Estonia (not selectable)

6 Cyprus (not selectable)

6 Luxembourg (not selectable)

5 Malta (not selectable)

Twenty-seven countries then, and 21 have their league in FM2005 (older versions have a lot less available, but this challenge is still playable on any version of CM).

Save yourself the bother of adding up everything, the total is 732, the number of MEPs from 2009 onwards. Though the EU loves to apply QMV (Qualified Majority Voting) whenever it suits the Franco-German alliance, we’ll go for the slightly more simple solution of outright majority. Earning 367 points will win you this challenge.

Got that? Good, now pay attention, cos we all know politicians are useless, especially those on the Scottish Green Party’s case. We’re gonna let footballers do the talking. It’s time to vote with the boot. Hell, they probably have more influence on people than those paid good money to run our political structures.

To earn any nation's points, achieve any of the following collections of silverware:

* two (top flight) league titles

* three FA and/or League Cups (or equivalent)

* the Double (league title + FA Cup)

Furthermore, in all but the six most valuable countries, the following combination will also suffice:

* one (top flight) league title plus 2 FA and/or League Cups (or equivalent)

Single-player mode: You’re free to change jobs around Europe and take on anything you want to. However, as soon as you move to another country, you have to win any piece of silverware (this includes charity shields, lower league cups and lower division championships, but not “mere†promotions) within 3 full seasons of going there. If you fail to do so, your mission in that particular country has failed. Should you lift any trophy, no matter how insignificant, you may carry on for a maximum of 2 further seasons (5 in total, the lifespan of a European Parliament) to meet the above criteria to earn a nation’s points. Again, if unsuccessful, it’s "mission failed", in which case the points on offer go to “the other sideâ€. A season is deemed a full season if control of any club in that nation is obtained no later than the last day of the month of the opening (top flight) league fixture.

Leaving a country before you hit the target equals admitting defeat and sees the points go to other side, except for first time you do this (which will be your only let-off in the entire challenge). Using this solitary “escape†resets both the timer and silverware for this particular nation, so you’re free to try it again. If you dare. Please note you won’t be considered to have “left†a country until the time you’ve started a new job in a different country. If in between leaving a country and starting a new job the 3 or 5 year period to achieve success elapses, you lose that country’s points! So if you’re considering abandoning a sinking ship, leave yourself with enough time to get a job elsewhere. The final whistle blown on the final league game in the highest division (or cup final if played at a later date) constitutes the end of the season. Playoff games and the like won’t be considered a stay of execution.

Multi-player mode: no time limit, first to hit target gets points, no punishment for abandoning a country, you can always go back and pray your rival doesn’t hit the national target first.

Bonuses during the game:

Winning the UEFA Cup: points for the nation of the losing finalist (if still up for grabs and if EU member)

Winning the European Cup: points for the nation of the losing finalist (if still up for grabs and if EU member) + points for not selected nation of choice

Single-player backfire mode: losing a European final means the points of the nation beating you go against you, as a "mission failed"

Bonuses to be nominated at start of game:

1x "twinned" nation: points for any non-selected league of choice linked to outcome of attempt in other (selected) country

1x double points nomination: at the start of the game, you must nominate one country for double points. Select carefully: success means a giant leap towards hitting the overall target, failure would be a major setback. Go for maximum points in Germany, or for "safe" points in a country you know well.

City-specific bonuses:

Certain cities take a special place in EU history, as places where key treaties were signed or major institutions are hosted. Achieving national targets with clubs from these cities results in double points (note: cannot be combined with "double points nomination", maximum number of points for any single nation is twice its nominal value). This city-specific bonus cannot "backfire" on you should you fail to hit the national target.

Multiplayer alternative: instead of doubling your own points, you may opt to take the points of any other nation rated equal to or lower than your current, selected or not. This leaves you with the tactical option of ruining the hard work done by your rival, who might be about to scoop the points of that other country after a few seasons of hard work.

Treaty of Paris (ECSC)

Treaty of Rome (EEC)

Maastricht Treaty (EU)

Treaty of Nice (New balance of power)

Luxembourg (ECJ)

Frankfurt (ECB)

Brussels (EP)

Strasbourg (EP)

Amsterdam Treaty (Eastward expansion)

Single player or multiplayer, hitting the overall target of 367 points mean you win the challenge. But beware: fail in a few countries, and your score against (single player) or your rival’s tally (multiplayer) will hit 367 before you do, and that means game over. Points for any nation can only go to one player, and once they’re awarded, they’re “greyed outâ€. While you’re still allowed to take up managerial jobs there, they serve no purpose. The points cannot be nicked anymore, so it’s best to move elsewhere at the earliest available opportunity.

International Management

For some reason, it became fashionable to include an International management stage in about 90% of challenges submitted in the past few years, and occasionally, it looked like such a stage existed purely for the sake of having one. To counter this, I was going to ban International management from this challenge outright. But I’d only get Brussels’ anti-competition commissioner knocking on my door, and I’d rather die of AIDS/cancer/watching A**x play than listen to their sh*t, so if you want to have a stint on the International stage, by all means, be my guest. I guess I should make it interesting for you then eh? Let’s call it “Knocking on Europe’s Doorâ€. Your restrictions are: any International team you manage has to be a non-EU member, and you can’t manage a club side at the same time. Points are obtained by eliminating EU members from the knockout stages of the European Championships, World Cup or Olympics. Your reward for taking such a scalp is their nominal value, but only if their league isn’t selected. Should any of these nations knock you out, points go against you. Furthermore, under no circumstances is it possible to win or lose the points for the six most valuable nations via this International route.

Notes:

1) At the start of the game, you must select one “home nation†(England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) to represent the United Kingdom and its 72 points. At least, if you want to run any of them, that is. While you’re allowed to run, and even manage in, the other three, they do not have any influence on your points tally.

2) The handful of “double points†opportunities mean the total number of points up for grabs is actually higher than 732, but this does not change the winning target of 367. Instead, it enables people with less powerful computers to still participate in this challenge. For instance, running just three leagues (and four divisions, due to the forced lower league start) might do, if you nominate Germany as your double points nation (2x99=198), take Paris, Nice or Strasbourg to enough French glory (2x72=144), and hit the target in the Netherlands (25). This would give you exactly 367 points. Theoretically, you could even complete the challenge with just one league running, by winning a few European trophies and beating teams from powerful nations in the process.

[Peacemaker7]

The aim of this stage is to discuss the four finalists so that they can be presented in finished form for the vote. It is up to the original submitter as to what they decide to take on board, but other people will certainly have some ideas to make each challenge better and thats the point.

The discussion period will last until April 23rd whence the final voting will commence.

[Brian of Nazareth]

Ah good - a chance to clarify a few measures.

With regards to each stage of the Ancient Roman Challenge was a bit vague with numbers on who should remain - I think a fixed number is appropriate.

So from the first departure, you take two of your squad over from Italy where possible - they mus thave played at least 20 games under your charge so as to stop you using some complete random youth git

Then for each stage you must go about spreading the Italian word by employing ( at least )one Italian staff member - preferably a coach, and then employing at least 9 Italians in each first team squad match. Leave them behind when you move on, though taking the two initially from your Roman club.

I don't know about clubs yet - don't have a copy of FM with me but it would be nice to align possible clubs with geogrpahy from ares where the romans actually where - though not sure if that's making it too complicated. Anyway just thought I'd try and clarify it - maybe the numbers can be changed again?

ps - cheers to those who voted for it

oh and PM - -is there a SAGA stage to the tour ? Or is that covered in the Back to the Future bit?

[binny]

Didn't expect Anneka's challenge to do so well, but I'm very pleased that it did.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm very willing to listen

[Brian of Nazareth]

Is determining how established you are up to the individual or are there are set targets like finishing placings etc?

[Peacemaker7]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">oh and PM - -is there a SAGA stage to the tour ? Or is that covered in the Back to the Future bit? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was thinking that was the back to the future. Of course if someone can up with a bit in there I'm happy to listen

[Peacemaker7]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brian of Nazareth:

Is determining how established you are up to the individual or are there are set targets like finishing placings etc? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the original challenge (at which binny cheated ) there was no set 'goal' for the initial it was just whenever you were good enough to move really, entirely up to the player.

Of course binny may well want to set a goal, say in having to reach the top division.

[binny]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peacemaker7:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brian of Nazareth:

Is determining how established you are up to the individual or are there are set targets like finishing placings etc? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the original challenge (at which binny cheated ) there was no set 'goal' for the initial it was just whenever you were good enough to move really, entirely up to the player.

Of course binny may well want to set a goal, say in having to reach the top division. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think we'll stick with the original version, and say that you can move over whenever you feel ready and your reputation allows you to.

[Raptor]

Stickyfied

[Peacemaker7]

Can we start getting some feedback on these, not that much time really and we want to make this challenge the best yet!

[Raptor]

I've thought long and hard about my challenge as it is now, and I believe it doesn't really require fine-tuning at this stage. Of course, as always, I'm open to suggestions, but I'd like to think that having thought it through for weeks, it'll do for the time being.

[Brian of Nazareth]

Aye, I'm content with mine too. I presume - at the lack of responses that the tweaking in the other thread was good enough.

[Peacemaker7]

Yeah seems one round of discussion is enough. I think we may as well to the vote, with a new thread really.

[Raptor]

Alright. Ready when you are sir

Closing this now then.