itsallaboutthierry Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 OK, first of all this might need to go in the bugs forum so apologies. I am Arsenal defending a free kick against Stoke. I personally don't see the need for a defensive wall in the modern game. Given the technical ability of the game's finest I feel all that they seem to do is put the goalkeeper out of position. I also like to have one eye on counter attacking opportunities and as for zonal vs man marking at set pieces I've never seen a zone score a goal. Bearing this philosophy in mind see my Def FK setup below: As you can see my defensive players are set to man mark, my attacking players are set to stay forward looking for the counter and I have one MC back to mop things up should the ball find space. I don't think this is an unreasonable set up. Now, keeping these instructions in mind, look how my team set themselves up to defend a free kick from Stoke: Needless to say the ball fell to Tuncay in acres and he slotted home quite simply. Why the hell are NONE of my players marking ANY of the Stoke players? That is the only instruction they are given. It wasn't a quick free kick they had plenty of time to arrange themselves as the Stoke players ambled forward. It wasn't the first time I'd used the setup it had been part of this tactic since the start of the season (End of February for the match). This had happened once before but I put it down to a one off - maybe that one was a quick free kick I couldn't remember. But a one off doesn't happen twice so something is happening here that I should be able to fix. What is it? (Additional Info: 2 DCs and DMC have zero creative freedom, full backs have little. Back 4 set to man marking DMC to zonal. Back 4 and DMC all set to Tight Marking. Play Offside UNticked.) Help! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallaboutthierry Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Happened again. Started a new save with Man United to run an initial test of my refined tactic. Free kick out wide, exact same defensive FK instructions, DC's closing down has been tweaked slightly but only by a notch or two. Look at how my defence sets up: So the ball gets clipped over to Van Persie: Who is presented with a virtual tap in: Why is this happening? Why are my entire team ignoring firstly my instructions and secondly their own footballing sense? Please advise me on how to fix this as I am clueless on this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallaboutthierry Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 And again later that match... How can this be the ME interpreting 'Man Mark' for defensive free kick??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallaboutthierry Posted January 13, 2010 Author Share Posted January 13, 2010 Two or three games later, another wide free kick. This is how my team lines up to defend now: I have changed NOTHING on the tactics screen. Why can they line up properly now in this game but not for the others? What has changed? Anyone have any ideas??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZdlR Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hopefully you'll take this criticism as it is intended: constructively. I personally don't see the need for a defensive wall in the modern game. Given the technical ability of the game's finest I feel all that they seem to do is put the goalkeeper out of position. However, there are hundreds - thousands, probably - of football managers who would disagree with you on this. Does it not seem a bit arrogant to feel you know better? I don't think this is an unreasonable set up. You didn't write the match-engine. Clearly, the person who did thinks this is totally unreasonable and, as it appears, hasn't catered for this scenario. As an analogy, if someone didn't think putting players on the posts for corners was a good idea and proceeded to concede goals into said corners, they would be better off blaming their own decisions than anything else. I've never seen a zone score a goal No offence, but that's the level of analysis Mark Lawrenson provides. No, they don't score goals, but that doesn't automatically imply that zonal marking is inherently wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallaboutthierry Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Hi Zdlr, Thanks for the response. Hopefully you'll take this criticism as it is intended: constructively.However, there are hundreds - thousands, probably - of football managers who would disagree with you on this. Does it not seem a bit arrogant to feel you know better? How is that constructive? In the situations shown in the posts - free kicks from wide positions - how many teams IRL would set up anything more than a one man defensive wall? If anyone at all. You didn't write the match-engine. Clearly, the person who did thinks this is totally unreasonable and, as it appears, hasn't catered for this scenario. If this is the case then why do I have the option not to form a wall? Shouldn't at least one player set to form wall be compulsory? As an analogy, if someone didn't think putting players on the posts for corners was a good idea and proceeded to concede goals into said corners, they would be better off blaming their own decisions than anything else. I feel this is a very poor analogy. How would forming a defensive wall in the scenarios above made my defenders get themselves within 5 yards of the attackers? I am not posting about a situation whereby the system I intend to set up has inherent defensive weaknesses. I am posting about players not obeying simple instructions and looking for help in understanding why they are not following those instructions - regardless of their efficacy. No offence, but that's the level of analysis Mark Lawrenson provides. No, they don't score goals, but that doesn't automatically imply that zonal marking is inherently wrong. This was a light hearted remark intended to show that I favour man marking at set pieces. In open play I have my full backs and MCs set to Zonal marking - I know the value of the set up. Equally you can look at (probably) 50% of Liverpool's conceded goals this season and could reasonably cite set piece zonal marking as the issue. Also is that something Lawro would say pre or post 'tache? Thanks for replying ZdlR I do really appreciate it, but the crux of what I'm asking is why my defenders aren't man marking as instructed - not the merits of my defensive free kick set up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corned beef & cabbage Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Just a quickie: How have you set up Creative Freedom for your players? I have noticed marked defensive improvements when telling my defensive players to stop thinking for themselves. Other than that, the only thing I can think of is that there is still an isse with man marking not working properly in this version of FM either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallaboutthierry Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Hi Corned Beef, as said in the OP my 2 DCs and DMC are set to zero creative freedom and the full backs to little. I'm really hoping that man marking isn't broken but struggling to come to another conclusion... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAFCIan75 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Hey itsallaboutthierry, I would not consider myself in any way, shape or form a tactical master in this game but I was wondering if you play a high defensive line? As the free kick is quite far from your goal I was thinking perhaps your defence had set up like they would for a goalkick etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corned beef & cabbage Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Oh crap - less skimming and more reading next time, sorry. The only things I can think of here and now are factors as (lack of) team gelling, players not communicationg properly etc, but judging by your screenies, it looks more like a Sunday League match with too many pints involved. I'll load up a save to see if I can get my players to behave just as 'interesting' during set pieces. Will report back later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallaboutthierry Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Hi CAFCIan, My D-Line is fairly high - 2 notches above centre. But should this then mean I need to play with offside trap ticked just to stop one of my defenders being an idiot and playing 4 opposition players onside? If this hadn't been happening with top class defenders (Arsenal then Man Utd) then I might be more inclined to accept this. It also doesn't explain how in the 4th post the defensive system is set up exactly as I wanted it with no change in tactical instructions. Maybe personnel make the difference but then the only difference is at DC in the two Man Utd examples with Jonny Evans in for Rio Ferdinand in the match where they got it right! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsallaboutthierry Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Oh crap - less skimming and more reading next time, sorry. The only things I can think of here and now are factors as (lack of) team gelling, players not communicationg properly etc, but judging by your screenies, it looks more like a Sunday League match with too many pints involved. I'll load up a save to see if I can get my players to behave just as 'interesting' during set pieces. Will report back later. Thanks mate that'd be really interesting to see. If it is a ME problem then hopefully SI can get it fixed for the next patch if it isn't then I have some more detective work ahead! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.