Width and defensive line questions

[Airenn1]

To start off i am quite a novice at creating tactics but after reviewing cleon's shefield united games , and being quite impressed with his results . I decided to try my hand at using the original tactics creator.

I am doing very well into the 2nd season with west ham but i am very confused to width , d-line, and also a little about tempo. I understand these are the 3 main things that you would change to affect your team's style of play during a game.

Let me start with width ;

Tactics using minimum width with possession

Tactics using minimum width without possession

These first 2 pictures show me using 1 notch of width with a default 442 tactic with and without possession. Its quite straightforward , when i have the ball i am very narrow and without possession my width is the same.

My confusion comes when i change the tactics to very wide.

Maximum width with possession

Maximum width without possession

From the first picture my width is almost as wide as the entire pitch , but to my surprise when i lose possession the width has gone back to almost as narrow as when i used the 1st notch of wide in my first 2 pictures.

I have some pictures with D-line that show my team pushing very high as well when i have possession, even though they are told to play deep.

My questions are;

1. Does width only change to your tactical settings when you are attacking and when defending the team will be as wide as the opposing team?

2. I always though width could be used as a defensive tool to stop teams with high amounts of possession playing through defensive gaps, but when i edit the width of my team, they continue to mimic the width of the opposing team.

3. Does the D-line slider only mean when you are not in possession? From my screen shot i was playing with 1 out of 20 in the d-line slider and my team was still almost pushing to the halfway line when in possession.

4. Lastly a little out of topic, about tempo, does tempo have any relation to defensive line, i always think about playing quick when i am deep to get the ball quickly out of my half so i dont get pressed into my own half, and play slow when i am playing high so i dont give the opponent a chance for a counter.

Hope its not too long a read, i appreciate any tips or advice of any sort.

[Airenn1]

Playing deep with possession

My picture of playing very deep but my team pushing to the halfway line when in possession.

[alimac]

From what I've seen D lineis just ignored for a lot of the time. I have my defenders set on deep sometimes and they always seem to push up to the halfway line and proceed to then get outpaced as the other team play a long ball! I set them on zonal marking and low defensive metality but they still push up!

[itsallaboutthierry]

From what I've seen D lineis just ignored for a lot of the time. I have my defenders set on deep sometimes and they always seem to push up to the halfway line and proceed to then get outpaced as the other team play a long ball! I set them on zonal marking and low defensive metality but they still push up!

Have you got 'play offside' ticked? I don't know if this would make a difference in game but as a defender in real life if you've got one eye on catching the opposition offside you will push up towards the halfway line as the opposition drop off as that is the point where the offside rule comes into effect.

[Cleon]

I'll answer properly when I get more time later. However in the last screenshot you've posted they are deep, if they were pushed up they'd be on the halfway line. The position they are taking up is rather more 'normal' than deep. The defence I mean, as they are the ones it affects the most and is the position they will take up not the rest of the team. A low d-line will make the gap between defence and midfield bigger like in the screenshot. A higher d-line would reduce the gap.

[Airenn1]

I'll answer properly when I get more time later. However in the last screenshot you've posted they are deep, if they were pushed up they'd be on the halfway line. The position they are taking up is rather more 'normal' than deep. The defence I mean, as they are the ones it affects the most and is the position they will take up not the rest of the team. A low d-line will make the gap between defence and midfield bigger like in the screenshot. A higher d-line would reduce the gap.

Ah ok i get it, i can see the gap. Still sometimes when i play very deep i feel vulnerable , maybe i just need to adjust my defender's mentality.

[Cleon]

Ah ok i get it, i can see the gap. Still sometimes when i play very deep i feel vulnerable , maybe i just need to adjust my defender's mentality.

How do you feel vulnerable, in what sense? It could be a case of mentality yeah but it could be that you have a deep line and close down too much.

[Airenn1]

How do you feel vulnerable, in what sense? It could be a case of mentality yeah but it could be that you have a deep line and close down too much.

I always feel as though i could be more tight and the opposition keep testing my keeper from long shots.

I am very conservative though and you are right i play narrow deep and slow mostly.

My dc have 5 closing down each and my dl/dr have 10, though sometimes i man mark wingers and the fullbacks push very high up to mark their man.

[Cleon]

My questions are;

1. Does width only change to your tactical settings when you are attacking and when defending the team will be as wide as the opposing team?

When your team loses possession the players will take a more natural width on their own. Also remember if you use man marking and wide width, when the opposition come narrower then your own players should also follow them and it can appear you are narrower than you've instructed them. The same happens on zonal but to a much lesser extent and it's more visual when using man marking.

2. I always though width could be used as a defensive tool to stop teams with high amounts of possession playing through defensive gaps, but when i edit the width of my team, they continue to mimic the width of the opposing team.

It can be used as a defensive tool. The marking plays a part like I mentioned above, thats why it might seem at times that you are mirroring the opposition.

3. Does the D-line slider only mean when you are not in possession? From my screen shot i was playing with 1 out of 20 in the d-line slider and my team was still almost pushing to the halfway line when in possession.

Basically yeah its more noticeable when not in possession.

4. Lastly a little out of topic, about tempo, does tempo have any relation to defensive line, i always think about playing quick when i am deep to get the ball quickly out of my half so i dont get pressed into my own half, and play slow when i am playing high so i dont give the opponent a chance for a counter.

Both the above work and they also work the other way around. It's more a preference really and what you see happening on the pitch.

[Cleon]

I always feel as though i could be more tight and the opposition keep testing my keeper from long shots.

I am very conservative though and you are right i play narrow deep and slow mostly.

My dc have 5 closing down each and my dl/dr have 10, though sometimes i man mark wingers and the fullbacks push very high up to mark their man.

Try not playing so deep unless it's against strong opposition, or you're trying to draw defensive teams onto you more. Playing deep and with such low closing down does make you vulnerable to long ranged shots.

[Airenn1]

When your team loses possession the players will take a more natural width on their own. Also remember if you use man marking and wide width, when the opposition come narrower then your own players should also follow them and it can appear you are narrower than you've instructed them. The same happens on zonal but to a much lesser extent and it's more visual when using man marking.

It can be used as a defensive tool. The marking plays a part like I mentioned above, thats why it might seem at times that you are mirroring the opposition.

Basically yeah its more noticeable when not in possession.

Both the above work and they also work the other way around. It's more a preference really and what you see happening on the pitch.

Thanks for taking the time to answer cleon , can you explain your last sentence about how "they also work the other way around" . Also do you suggest i switch to zonal marking if i want to stay very tight and my defenders are on man marking?

[Cleon]

Playing slow tempo when deep also works and can help retain possession and makes the opposition work more to gett he ball. Especially if you have players able to retain possession. This can be used to great effect against weaker teams to draw them onto you and makes them chase the ball.

Playing high tempo while pushed up can work just as goodand the constant pressure you apply can cause errors from the oppositions defensive players.

How often in real football games do we see teams like Man Utd, Chelsea, Barca all pressure the opposition high up the pitch and play at a fast tempo. Sooner or later defences crack and make a mistake, be it someone out of position, tired legs or a forced error.

[Airenn1]

OK thanks alot, this has cleared up all my confusion with the sliders , i think i will be able to use em more effectively now

Im very wary of playing an attacking style though because even though i finished 4th in the first season with west ham, when i go to away games against the lesser teams like stoke , burnley they all play somewhat attacking style against me and i need to play slow and deep as i cannot outplay them with the players i have yet, i think i am weak in midfield and i only have mark noble as my creative midfielder, the rest are hernanes from sao paulo , anatoliy tymoshuk and manuel blasi.