the way AI balances a match: Your players becoming complete idiots

[isuckatfm]

this game people say treat it like real football how when the ball goes to the right hand side of the pitch at about 18 yard line instead of my right back going for the ball my goalkeeper does and what a supprise the striker who is quicker than my goal keeper gets it and scores. M y whole d line was on the 18 yard box no pressure at all . Why is my goalkeeper running 25yards past my defenders to clear the ball he ran past my right back whats going on

As I said before it's a good shout for a bug but posting as if the AI makes it happen so the AI can score means it just gets glossed over. I've got no problem with people having a moan about the game on the forums but when people do it consistently for extended periods of time without ever doing anything constructive then it makes them look like they just want to bitch all of the time.

If it isn't a bug then eccentricity/decisions plus possibly closing down/mentality setting of the keeper too high. As heath's Higuita joke suggests, it can be very subjective though as some might view it as acceptable if is very rare. Personally I would regard it as a bug based on the way you described it.

[heathxxx]

Why is my goalkeeper running 25yards past my defenders to clear the ball he ran past my right back whats going on

chronic haze - Any chance you can send me a pkm of that match, along with some information about the goalkeeper attributes and your tactical settings. Is this something you've seen often, a rare or even one-off event?

There are many reasons that things like this can happen. My Rene Higuita joke was pointing at the "eccentricity" of a player who might do something like this. There's many times where a combination of intended or instructed factors can cause an event like this. There's also bugs or flaws that can cause things like this to happen, if they are obvious and widely noticed is another matter.

Complaining continually without presenting evidence (such as a pkm, screenshot, savegame, etc...) does come across as if you're finding fault with as many things you can, for the sake of complaining.

If you think you've found an issue, it's far more beneficial to present the evidence, so that it can be examined in more detail, then if it's clearly a bug, it can be actioned.

Also, don't confuse me being a moderator with being an employee of SI Games. None of use are paid employees of SI Games or SEGA. We're just people who play the game like everyone else, but have an active interest in the forums and the community. Some of us (along with many other regular players of FM), are involved in external beta-testing. We're all interesting in making the game better.

If you can help by providing such concrete evidence, you're helping with the improvement of the game and hopefully you're own enjoyment when it's fixed.

[dimartino]

... We're all interesting in making the game better....

Well said! So are we all. But I think the need of evidence is absurd, as you are asking us to bring to you some rain water just for you to confirm if it's wet!! If someone says that has never seen the presented strange events in the game (some events more often than others) is a obvious liar, and is trying to defend the current patch. Don't get me wrong, we are all on the same side here.What all this people seek is not a way to justify failure, they just want to improve the game, and please be HONEST, 10.2 REALLY needs A LOT of improvement!!!!

[TheBetterHalf]

Well said! So are we all. But I think the need of evidence is absurd, as you are asking us to bring to you some rain water just for you to confirm if it's wet!! If someone says that has never seen the presented strange events in the game (some events more often than others) is a obvious liar, and is trying to defend the current patch. Don't get me wrong, we are all on the same side here.What all this people seek is not a way to justify failure, they just want to improve the game, and please be HONEST, 10.2 REALLY needs A LOT of improvement!!!!

I think both of you are meaning the same thing but speaking different language. The reason for the "evidence" is not beacuse anyone is misstrusting anyone. But if SI is actually going to get a chance of fixing any bugs, pkm´s has to be uploaded.

[heathxxx]

Well said! So are we all. But I think the need of evidence is absurd, as you are asking us to bring to you some rain water just for you to confirm if it's wet!! If someone says that has never seen the presented strange events in the game (some events more often than others) is a obvious liar, and is trying to defend the current patch. Don't get me wrong, we are all on the same side here.What all this people seek is not a way to justify failure, they just want to improve the game, and please be HONEST, 10.2 REALLY needs A LOT of improvement!!!!

I don't believe I've said anything to the contrary regarding any bugs with the game, but rather that many issues a player might "see" can be to do with many variables, not just bugs. There's always room for improvement though, nobody will deny that.

If you can help by providing such concrete evidence, you're helping with the improvement of the game and hopefully you're own enjoyment when it's fixed.

What I'm referring to here is that it's more productive to be a part of the solution to a problem, than constantly bleating about it. When people harp on about problems, it snowballs into other people who usually can't form their own opinions unless prompted, joining in.

Post images, post pkm's, post detailed descriptions (which some people do of course), but droning on like a stuck record, serves only to get people's backs up.

The main problem I have, is that it's usually the same people who complain all the time. SI do take notice of issues, be they obvious or presented to them by players and strive to improve every time.

[Mirto]

I also seem to have the complacency issue after a couple of goals. I can't seem to keep the zero most of the time. If I get three in, I simply get four right back. This could be normal of course, a team that's down will fight back. The problem is, whenever my team gets in the flow and we get two goals in, the entire team (especially the defenders) turns into a bunch of idiots making one mistake after another. Marking becomes crap, the defenders suddenly can't anticipate anything anymore etc. Completely killing the game by changing tactics doesn't help either, even my best DM makes mistake after mistake. Wouldn't it be logical to expect my team's morale go up resulting in a better "flow"?

Maybe it's just a feeling and maybe it's my tactics, but it's extremely frustrating. You know those racing games in which the opposition is suddenly alot faster once you're first? It feels exactly like that.

[heathxxx]

I also seem to have the complacency issue after a couple of goals. I can't seem to keep the zero most of the time. If I get three in, I simply get four right back. This could be normal of course, a team that's down will fight back. The problem is, whenever my team gets in the flow and we get two goals in, the entire team (especially the defenders) turns into a bunch of idiots making one mistake after another. Marking becomes crap, the defenders suddenly can't anticipate anything anymore etc. Completely killing the game by changing tactics doesn't help either, even my best DM makes mistake after mistake. Wouldn't it be logical to expect my team's morale go up resulting in a better "flow"?

Maybe it's just a feeling and maybe it's my tactics, but it's extremely frustrating. You know those racing games in which the opposition is suddenly alot faster once you're first? It feels exactly like that.

This sounds to me like it's more of a player mentality issue than a tactical issue.

If your team is able to take a comfortable lead and confidence is high, then clearly there's something good about your tactics.

If your players have weak personality traits or poor mentality attributes, this could be more of a problem and no amount of tactical tinkering will cure the problem completely.

It's for reasons like this, that I always look for players to have a minimum of 12+ Determination. I also look at their characters to be "Determined" or "Professional" or "Ambitious" (the latter to a certain degree, as you can have ambition without professionalism). Not only will players with these sort of attributes help get your team ahead (or come from behind), they're more likely to be less complacent when they're ahead, so keep a lead better, fight back from behind better, I'm sure you get the idea.

Although it's often easy to blame tactical problems, over recent years, I've paid far more attention to the characteristics and suitability of players, than any one tactic in particular. This is why in my saves, I endeavour to build my squad around my chosen tactic, rather than tinker a tactic constantly to suit players.

The final suggestion is to be more mindful of your responses in team-talks and pre-match press conferences. If you're always telling everyone things along the lines of "yeah we'll thrash them", then the players are going to react sometime, but thinking they're going to stroll every game. You've got to be a little more cautious or reserved with comments sometimes, otherwise complacency becomes part of their mentality going into games.

[Mirto]

I always look for strong mental stats in my defenders, so that shouldn't be a problem. I also always try to have one fast paced defender because fast paced strikers are not uncommon, just as in real life. I will not say that the ME is broken like some other users on the forum, it clearly isn't. Yet some aspects seem to be strange. I replayed the same match a couple of times and it's clear that something's wrong with marking. A fast striker with a high stat in technique getting past a defender would be understandable, but even average strikers are capable of getting past defenders over and over again. I believe my tactic is pretty solid, I can hold off teams like Bayern, but taking a good lead seems to change the players. The change is so sudden, it's really noticeable. The players really seem to get dumber, the most simple mistakes are made while ten minutes ago the exact same player was playing like the best player on earth. Now I tried killing a game like I mentioned in the previous post, but that makes things even worse by giving the players the chance to make even more mistakes.

Just to illustrate, I played Wolfsburg six times now just to test some changes. I usually get the lead, 2-0, 3-0. Suddenly, without any mention of the other coach changing tactics, my players drop the ball. The keeper just jumps around, defenders walk past each other and the flanks (which were completely locked before) are suddenly wide open. It's like the players decide it's been enough. I can't anticipate the change since a tactical change has not been made. This also is not the resut of teamtalks since it happens in the first half of the game.

Maybe I'm imagining things, but the game is really frustrating at this point.

[daddyoh]

I always look for strong mental stats in my defenders, so that shouldn't be a problem. I also always try to have one fast paced defender because fast paced strikers are not uncommon, just as in real life. I will not say that the ME is broken like some other users on the forum, it clearly isn't. Yet some aspects seem to be strange. I replayed the same match a couple of times and it's clear that something's wrong with marking. A fast striker with a high stat in technique getting past a defender would be understandable, but even average strikers are capable of getting past defenders over and over again. I believe my tactic is pretty solid, I can hold off teams like Bayern, but taking a good lead seems to change the players. The change is so sudden, it's really noticeable. The players really seem to get dumber, the most simple mistakes are made while ten minutes ago the exact same player was playing like the best player on earth. Now I tried killing a game like I mentioned in the previous post, but that makes things even worse by giving the players the chance to make even more mistakes.

Just to illustrate, I played Wolfsburg six times now just to test some changes. I usually get the lead, 2-0, 3-0. Suddenly, without any mention of the other coach changing tactics, my players drop the ball. The keeper just jumps around, defenders walk past each other and the flanks (which were completely locked before) are suddenly wide open. It's like the players decide it's been enough. I can't anticipate the change since a tactical change has not been made. This also is not the resut of teamtalks since it happens in the first half of the game.

Maybe I'm imagining things, but the game is really frustrating at this point.

Mate, thats what the bugs are. Nothing to do with what settings you have on your tactics page, no matter what you do it will always be like that. We just have to get on with it.