Do players have hidden development curves like PES?

[jxd]

Or are they all pretty much blank slates and it all comes down to training and playing?

I'm asking because I have one 24 year old who's at 130/175, yet his stats hasn't improved since forever, in fact a couple has dropped.

[Xennaz]

Alot depends on the following:

Personality

- Professionalism should lead to sharper and quicker improvements from training, among other things

- Determination allows the player to overcome injuries, etc

Training/Facilities

- Different training schedules will determine how/how much certain attributes improve or drop

- Better facilities/coaches will generally lead to more noticeable improvements as well

Games played

- The more games a player plays, at (relatively) higher levels, the more he should improve

Of course, this isn't an exhaustive list, but should help a little hopefully. Has the fella been injured recently?

[shocking]

Professionalism and Ambition are key here, and I suspect his are low. At 24 he's never going to get to anywhere near 175 CA, so I wouldn't hold out much hope mate.

[jxd]

So is it safe to say the game has no early bloomer/late bloomer distinction like Michael Owen vs, err, Jimmy Bullard?

No he hasn't been injured more than anybody else and he's been getting games here and there. I'll think I'll try to send him on loan and if he still doesn't improve then dump him.

Thanks.

[SFraser]

So is it safe to say the game has no early bloomer/late bloomer distinction like Michael Owen vs, err, Jimmy Bullard?

No he hasn't been injured more than anybody else and he's been getting games here and there. I'll think I'll try to send him on loan and if he still doesn't improve then dump him.

Thanks.

No that's wrong. The game not only has a development curve like PES, it has 3 development curves for each player and they are modified by a large quantity of variables.

Player development is significantly more in-depth than PES. Drawing comparisons with PES is not a bad starting point, but it is only a starting point.

There are in effect three distinct development curves for each player. Those three distinct development curves are for the attributes in each of the Technical - Mental - Physical attribute profiles. These three sets of attributes all increase at different rates compared to each other, and all attributes in each set increase at similar rates to each other.

The actual rate of development for each set of Attributes is determined first of all by Age. Age pays a huge role in attribute development, and it is Age that causes the differences in growth rate for these three sets. All other factors simply alter the rate of growth for all sets, Age alters the rate of growth differently for different sets. Physical Attributes grow quickly in young players, peak early in middle-aged players and decline early in older players. Mental attribute take a long time to peak in terms of growth rate, achieve their maximum growth rate much later, and only start to decline in really old players. Technical Attributes plot a course in between Physical and Mental. They dont grow as quickly as Physical in youngsters but they dont drop as quickly as Physical in old players. They dont grow as slowly as Mental in youngsters and they dont drop as slowly as Mental in older players.

Alongside this Age related difference of attribute growth comes the actual factors that determine how much attributes grow by. These are Player Personality, Match Experience, and Club Reputation. These three factors do not change the different rates of growth between Attribute sets, they change the actual amount of growth going on for each set. The pattern remains the same independant of these factors, but these factors boost growth of all sets, or reduce growth of all sets.

Overall the system is relatively simple, but it is much more in-depth than PES. Growth curves are a great place to start, but these curves are different for attribute sets, and they are different depending on Match Experience, Personality and Club Reputation.

There are many other factors involved but these are the important ones.

[Andy83]

The game needs a new system, been like this for ages now.

I don't think young players should have a fixed PA..... the -10 PA etc was only giving them a random PA each time a new game was started.

[Xennaz]

I don't think young players should have a fixed PA..... the -10 PA etc was only giving them a random PA each time a new game was started.

I'm not one of the researchers, but perhaps it's due to the fact that they aren't totally sure if a particular player has the necessary potential to succeed, hence the random probability, governed by some set guidelines (-1 rather than -10, etc).

I believe there has been a ton of debate over how CA and PA should be handled as well, and it's hard to find a system that would incorporate something accurately and easily I guess.

[SFraser]

There is no point in PA if it is not fixed. If there is no PA then any half decent manager can turn every player into Pele.

[Chr1s Lawson]

Drogba would be a prime example of a late bloomer, he didn't get "world class" until he was about 28/29, but I wouldn't say his professionalism is particularly high

[RT--]

Drogba suffered with a whole host of injuries when he was young, at Le Mans, and didn't really get his break at Marseille until fairly late in his career. Even his first year at Chelsea wasn't great, until he developed parts of his game and settled in.

An FM player with a world class PA, if they were injured often enough before 21, and then played most of their career at relatively low rep teams, would probably have a similar development curve.

[shocking]

So has anyone ever had any luck in raising an older players CA? I've tried many times and it seems players over the age of about 22-24 are more or less stuck(never gain more than 5-10 CA), even if they are high professionism/ambition, play most first team games and you have good coaches/training facilities. Am I missing something?

[SFraser]

Drogba would be a prime example of a late bloomer, he didn't get "world class" until he was about 28/29, but I wouldn't say his professionalism is particularly high

He also didn't join Chelsea untill late in his career and this would be replicated ingame through the Club Reputation impact over CA growth.

So has anyone ever had any luck in raising an older players CA? I've tried many times and it seems players over the age of about 22-24 are more or less stuck(never gain more than 5-10 CA), even if they are high professionism/ambition, play most first team games and you have good coaches/training facilities. Am I missing something?

You are missing the fact that your Club Reputation is a major cap on the maximum growth rate of CA. CA is also only a level of overall ability, it says nothing about quality attribute distribution, and it is not something that is supposed to be known directly.

If you "play" the game in terms of hidden variables and direct knowledge of CA values then you are going to get mislead about player quality and development potential. Most players playing regularly for the same side are going to "peak" in terms of CA around their late twenties as this is the time when CA growth rates and Heavy Attribute Weight decline start to balance each other in players under their PA. However a drop of even half an Attribute Point in Heavy Physical Attributes releases enough CA to significantly boost Mental Attributes. 0.5 Attribute loss per season across all Physical Attributes may release enough CA for a 1 point increase in all Mental Attributes across a season.

Quite a few people will give you the opinion that Mental Attributes are, overall, significantly more influential in the match engine. Alongside this comes the fact that 100 CA in Physical Attributes gives a lot less Attributes than 100 CA in Mental Attributes.

Here is a screenshot of a player using one of my Training Schedules that has gained 2 points of CA in a year.

He has gained 2 CA due to playing regularly, and because his club was quite successful. This 2 point CA increase does not explain the quantity of attribute increases he has received. The quantity of attribute increases in his profile can only be explained by his 2 CA increase combined to a drop in Physical Attribute CA releasing CA for his other attributes. His Physical Attribute drop is not enough to register a change in his Physical Attributes, but it is enough to improve other attributes.

[SCIAG]

What makes you think Club Reputation affects potential growth? Could you provide evidence, please? It's not something I've observed.

Also, how can his Physical Attributes have dropped if they clearly haven't dropped? If not change is registered, then how can there be a change in this situation?

[DocSander]

Also, how can his Physical Attributes have dropped if they clearly haven't dropped? If not change is registered, then how can there be a change in this situation?

The change might be subtle...

It may be visible on a 1 in 100 scale and not (yet) on a 1 in 20 scale...

And as small physical attribute declines free up relatively much CA, increase on a technical and mainly mental front is the likely consequence of a good training schedule in elderly players, the rate at which determined by things like stamina and competitive match exposure...

[SFraser]

What makes you think Club Reputation affects potential growth? Could you provide evidence, please? It's not something I've observed.

Search for CATAFANs thread on player development.

Also, how can his Physical Attributes have dropped if they clearly haven't dropped? If not change is registered, then how can there be a change in this situation?

If 2 CA alone can register 14 attribute increases, how many attributes would be at 20 in a 100 CA player?

[SCIAG]

What 1-100 scale would that be? I've genuinely never heard of any such thing.

A large number of those attributes are insignificant, though. Dribbling, finishing, first touch, long shots, technique, off the ball, team work- attributes that will take up next to nothing in a centre back. A CA 100 centre back could probably have all of those at 20.

That leaves heading, marking, positioning, concentration, and anticipation. Heading has a slightly higher rating than technique and ball control iirc, anticipation is primarily attacking so probably not as high as concentration and positioning, and marking will be very high. An increase of 2 in CA does seem slightly low for more or less across-the-board defensive increases, but it would surprise me if that was accurate.

Maybe his weaker foot rating has dropped? That makes more sense than physical attributes, as no change would be registered with a drop of just one or two points.

[L.McDaDe]

Like in my save, Daneil Opare

(I do not use FMRTE for cheating puposes I like checking what clubs produce best youngsters on my hliday saves)

[RT--]

The game itself uses a 1-100 rating for attributes, SCIAG. Obviously they show as 1-20 in the game.

As far as I'm aware, weaker foot rating doesn't change over time.

[megafan2005]

The game itself uses a 1-100 rating for attributes, SCIAG. Obviously they show as 1-20 in the game.

As far as I'm aware, weaker foot rating doesn't change over time.

It does .

[DanTheMan999]

For once, I think FIFA Manager actually has done something right.

I like they way they do potential, and it's similar, but not as clever, as the way that professionalism and ambition goes towards potential. But then their potential is not capped.

That way you can have players that start off really awful at 20, but progress really quickly, and then peak like drogba.

I hate the idea that there is a barrier that stops a player getting better, I think there should just be a progression rate, and their starting attributes. Makes more sense to how things work in the real world.