Player prices outragious as the years pass by

[Thedore]

Whats wrong with inflating the price?

Do you not inflate the price when you try to sell a player?

I don't have a problem with the AI inflating prices as IMO its realistic.

Just looked at my save out of interest:

Malouda - Chelsea sold him to Lyon for £4.3m on 19.08.10

Lennon - Still at Tottenham valued at £13m for a 31yo with over 50 England caps

Walcott - Still at Arsenal valued at £12.5m for a 29yo with nearly 50 England caps

The wrongness isnt nessecarily inflating the price as a quote, thats just a nasty side effect. The problem is that the AI isnt interested in selling anyone unless they are getting over the odds. This means inflated prices all round and its just realistic in the slightest.

Not sure of the relevance of checking those players in the game.

[afced7]

But the AI quoting the price as far too high isnt fine at all :confused: Its totally unrealstic to want an absurd amount of money for an above average player.

But they don't actually want that amount, if you come in with a counter offer then they'll probably lower their demands, and you can eventually meet them half way. If you agree to pay the first price they propose then unrealistic fees are a certainty, having said that, I agree that transfer fees are often inflated, but this is offset somewhat by how easy it is to snap up top quality youth cheaply.

[Cougar2010]

You think?

<Snip>

I'm not usually one to get uppity and go to this bother, but that's what happened. I had Sunday League experience. Now, that latter picture is taken a couple of years after the Milan offer when I had Continental reputation after a run in the Champions League group stages, but the AC Milan offer came after a run in the UEFA Cup Group Stages. Do you really think that's realistic?

That offer even came through before I beat Braga at home in the group stages. My record was a draw with Bordeaux at home, a draw with Braga away and defeats away to Bordeaux and home and away to Slavia Prague. I couldn't even claim a reputation increase on account of a major win.

Does sound a little much but getting a Northern Irish club into the Group stages would get you noticed in RL and increase your reputation.

Report it in the bugs section so SI can look to improve it in the future.

[Thedore]

But they don't actually want that amount, if you come in with a counter offer then they'll probably lower their demands, and you can eventually meet them half way. If you agree to pay the first price they propose then unrealistic fees are a certainty, having said that, I agree that transfer fees are often inflated, but this is offset somewhat by how easy it is to snap up top quality youth cheaply.

Not in my experience. Whilst they do lower their demands slightly its not by a significant amount, and still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth for having to play an overinflated price due to a flawed transfer system.

[aderow]

There's also the fact that teams just dont want to sell a player unless you are going some obscene price.

Its not that they necessarily value that player at that price, they just think that if you are dumb enough to pay that price, you can have said player and we'll be rich and happy.

[aderow]

Not in my experience. Whilst they do lower their demands slightly its not by a significant amount, and still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth for having to play an overinflated price due to a flawed transfer system.

All I know is that if Man city went around signing defenders for 20 million a piece in the game, people would be crying that the game is unrealistic.

[Cougar2010]

The wrongness isnt nessecarily inflating the price as a quote, thats just a nasty side effect. The problem is that the AI isnt interested in selling anyone unless they are getting over the odds. This means inflated prices all round and its just realistic in the slightest.

If a player is happy and under contract why shouldn't the AI get a premium?

Likewise when a player is unhappy or the club want rid of him you get them cheaper.

I don't see this as a problem, if you do I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

EDIT

I should probably add here that when I say premium I'm talking about a realistic one and not the prices that are quoted when an AI club don't want to sell a player.

Not sure of the relevance of checking those players in the game.

I was curious and thought I would share.

You said Malouda wouldn't be sold for £30m in the game, it would take more yet he went for £4.3m

[Thedore]

There's also the fact that teams just dont want to sell a player unless you are going some obscene price.

Its not that they necessarily value that player at that price, they just think that if you are dumb enough to pay that price, you can have said player and we'll be rich and happy.

Dumb enough Sorry, but I cant agree there. That suggests some level of AI that is simply incomprehensible at the minute.

And im going to peddle my point once more - the AI are looking to much for merely above average players.

[Thedore]

If a player is happy and under contract why shouldn't the AI get a premium?

Likewise when a player is unhappy or the club want rid of him you get them cheaper.

I don't see this as a problem, if you do I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The problem is when that "premium" increases the potential fee to an absurd amount. This happens more often than it should in the game.

I was curious and thought I would share.

You said Malouda wouldn't be sold for £30m in the game, it would take more yet he went for £4.3m

One game is not a representative sample.

[afced7]

Not in my experience. Whilst they do lower their demands slightly its not by a significant amount, and still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth for having to play an overinflated price due to a flawed transfer system.

Yes, I do find that too, but only when my scouts report that the club won't accept any money for the player, at which point I move on, because I know that I'll be paying £60mil minimum. It's very possible to get players for the money the scouts recommend, and I find that the prices they give are more or less realistic. The problem perhapes stems from the AI rating some of their players too highly, and being less willing to let them go, even if they aren't particularly good. This could be because the AI simply isn't going to be able to build a squad as well as a human can, and therefore has to make it harder for the player to buy its players

[Cougar2010]

The problem is when that "premium" increases the potential fee to an absurd amount. This happens more often than it should in the game.

Sorry, covered that with an edit.

"Absurd" amounts as you put it are when the AI don't want to sell.

One game is not a representative sample.

Fair comment but its the only save I have

[Thedore]

Yes, I do find that too, but only when my scouts report that the club won't accept any money for the player, at which point I move on, because I know that I'll be paying £60mil minimum. It's very possible to get players for the money the scouts recommend, and I find that the prices they give are more or less realistic. The problem perhapes stems from the AI rating some of their players too highly, and being less willing to let them go, even if they aren't particularly good. This could be because the AI simply isn't going to be able to build a squad as well as a human can, and therefore has to make it harder for the player to buy its players

That is a point worth highlighting. And it ties in nicely and perhaps adds a reason as to why the AI acts as it does.

The end result is the same however - it leads to a flawed transfer system. And deficiencies in one area ceratinly shouldnt be compensated for in another.

That said, Id expect nothing less considering the clear cut chances debacle.

[eddietheorc]

I think it time to introduce managing directors that help the human player out with negotiating the transfer fee, it seems that in some peoples in games, AI teams understand the method alot better or know what to do, when haggling out a transfer fee or meeting in the middle. What some people to forget is that your supposed to make friends with the players manager that your trying to buy, also do the same with the player them selfs, also have long strategy when approaching the highly wanted players. But that does not excuse the game for somtimes been unrealistic when coming to large transfer fees, the most problem i had was in fm 09, when arsenal wouldn't accept 40 million pounds for Kolo Touré and 60 m for Emmanuel Adebayor, when they had failed to qualify for both Champions League and Europa League, this would never happen in real life knowing Arsenal policy when coming to high transfer fees. This has happened in fm 10 with big teams before and players just won't leave even if they have been out of the Champions League for couple of seasons, in my current game, man utd have 2 brilliant defenders, but really are not the same club that they at the start of the game, have had bad seasons and the rare good one, but still they won't open bids for them two players, and there finances are just secure.

In the my game on fm 10, the highest transfer fee was for Mamadou Sakho to Real Madrid 59m, from arsenal who had bought him for 17m.

[Cougar2010]

Nah but they arent dealing with an overinflated simulation. They deal in the real world, where even players like Ribery will only reach 35-40m tops.

Missed this one.

We talking about the same Ribery that Bayern wanted £100m for and is still at Bayern now despite all major European clubs tracking him?

[Thedore]

Missed this one.

We talking about the same Ribery that Bayern wanted £100m for and is still at Bayern now despite all major European clubs tracking him?

The difference being, in real life, he'll go for around 40m. In the game the AI would never drop theur demands.

[SFraser]

Rubbish, I signed Douglas Costa for 6m, Marquinhos for 5.75m, Rene Adler for 18.75m and Sandro for 14m in two seasons in my current save.

That's two massive potential 18 year old attackers for around 12m, and two World Class players for around 33m. That's four players that will be in my First Team for the next ten years, will all become World Class players, for a combined transfer fee of 45m.

What did I not do? I didn't splash 2 years worth of transfer budget on Sergio Aguero that Atletico dont want to sell. Instead I praised Adler in the media, waited untill he wanted to leave, then bought possibly the best goalkeeper in the game for 19m. I then went looking not for the absolute greatest 28 year old indispensible to club Defensive Midfielder and Left Winger in the game, I went and hunted out the next up-and-coming worlds greatest DM and Left Winger, or atleast next top quality players, and bought them early and for a snip.

The game is called Football Manager for a reason.

[afced7]

The end result is the same however - it leads to a flawed transfer system. And deficiencies in one area ceratinly shouldnt be compensated for in another.

Completely agree, I was just going to add something along those lines to my first post.

[afced7]

Rubbish, I signed Douglas Costa for 6m, Marquinhos for 5.75m, Rene Adler for 18.75m and Sandro for 14m in two seasons in my current save.

I'm not on one side or the other, but I feel that the transfer system gets a bit more unrealistic further down the line, once the majority of the real players have retired. I think, as you have illustrated here, when real players are still in the game, the transfer system is pretty much spot on.

[Cougar2010]

The difference being, in real life, he'll go for around 40m. In the game the AI would never drop theur demands.

Yes but the point is that Bayern quoted a high price to scare clubs off which was successful as he is still there.

Had it been FM a user would have paid £100m then complained about the transfer system.

PS

Did you noticed he went for £40m from Bayern to Man City on 17.07.10 in my save (Second highest transfer).

[SFraser]

I'm not on one side or the other, but I feel that the transfer system gets a bit more unrealistic further down the line, once the majority of the real players have retired. I think, as you have illustrated here, when real players are still in the game, the transfer system is pretty much spot on.

What I have illustrated is that when you don't try to put together a Galacticos squad, you don't have to pay Galacticos prices.

[aderow]

Dumb enough Sorry, but I cant agree there. That suggests some level of AI that is simply incomprehensible at the minute.

And im going to peddle my point once more - the AI are looking to much for merely above average players.

So tell me then why would Porto want 30 million for hulk then even though he is worth like 5 million at the start of the game? Is it because they themselves value him at 30? I doubt it.

They probably see him as a key player and will not sell him unless you are prepared to take a serious hit to your bank account. And most teams don't want that....except the really dumb ones owned by oil men and just lost 1-0 today in the last minute

scholes = LEGEND

[Thedore]

Rubbish, I signed Douglas Costa for 6m, Marquinhos for 5.75m, Rene Adler for 18.75m and Sandro for 14m in two seasons in my current save.

That's two massive potential 18 year old attackers for around 12m, and two World Class players for around 33m. That's four players that will be in my First Team for the next ten years, will all become World Class players, for a combined transfer fee of 45m.

What did I not do? I didn't splash 2 years worth of transfer budget on Sergio Aguero that Atletico dont want to sell. Instead I praised Adler in the media, waited untill he wanted to leave, then bought possibly the best goalkeeper in the game for 19m. I then went looking not for the absolute greatest 28 year old indispensible to club Defensive Midfielder and Left Winger in the game, I went and hunted out the next up-and-coming worlds greatest DM and Left Winger, or atleast next top quality players, and bought them early and for a snip.

The game is called Football Manager for a reason.

Hello Arsene. I agree that this way is probably the most successful way of management in the game. However, that still doesnt rubbish my point that above average players still go for inflated fee's. Nor does it cover the fact that every manager is pigeonholed into the Arsene Wenger school of transfering because theres no other viable option to build a team.

I can edit too btw

[aderow]

The difference being, in real life, he'll go for around 40m. In the game the AI would never drop theur demands.

If that's what has been happening to you I'm sorry. Whenever I've gotten into negotiations with teams I've always been able to get rid of close 50% or their original demands.

[Cougar2010]

I'm not on one side or the other, but I feel that the transfer system gets a bit more unrealistic further down the line, once the majority of the real players have retired. I think, as you have illustrated here, when real players are still in the game, the transfer system is pretty much spot on.

I think this is more to do with how the AI values players. As human users we obviously look at a player differently to the AI.

Some players we think are good and play well whilst the AI doesn't seem interested in them for whatever reason. Other players the AI fights over yet we wouldn't want them in our team.

Whatever the reasons its an area that can be improved.

For the record I'm not saying that the transfer system is perfect either but I do feel its the best yet. That said it can always be improved further.

[Thedore]

What I have illustrated is that when you don't try to put together a Galacticos squad, you don't have to pay Galacticos prices.

Its not even about galacticos as I have tried to pointedly make clear throughout this thread.

Its about the "above average" players, who are over valued by their clubs.

[aderow]

Hello Arsene. I agree that this way is probably the most successful way of management in the game. However, that still doesnt rubbish my point that above average players still go for inflated fee's. Nor does it cover the fact that every manager is pigeonholed into the Arsene Wenger school of transfering because theres no other viable option to build a team.

I can edit too btw

When prices of the world class players go up, the price for above average players will also go up.

[Thedore]

When prices of the world class players go up, the price for above average players will also go up.

Yeah the mean price might, but all other averages would stay roughly the same.

[afced7]

I think this is more to do with how the AI values players. As human users we obviously look at a player differently to the AI.

Some players we think are good and play well whilst the AI doesn't seem interested in them for whatever reason. Other players the AI fights over yet we wouldn't want them in our team.

Whatever the reasons its an area that can be improved.

For the record I'm not saying that the transfer system is perfect either but I do feel its the best yet. That said it can always be improved further.

Yeah I agree with everything you say here too. Out of interest, I assume that everybody here is using the 10.3 patch? I don't know if it makes a difference but it might.

[SFraser]

Hello Arsene. I agree that this way is probably the most successful way of management in the game. However, that still doesnt rubbish my point that above average players still go for inflated fee's. Nor does it cover the fact that every manager is pigeonholed into the Arsene Wenger school of transfering because theres no other viable option to build a team.

I can edit too btw

Everyone is pigeonholed into developing young talent and mixing it up with good, astute purchases of aged players or unknowns from other countries?

Yes, spot on, it's called Football. There are very few teams around that can build squads the way you want to, and even they cannot buy anyone they want whenever they feel like it.

[SFraser]

Its not even about galacticos as I have tried to pointedly make clear throughout this thread.

Its about the "above average" players, who are over valued by their clubs.

That is because "they are important to the club and the club doesn't want to sell them".

What you think they are worth is irrelevant. They don't play for you.

[aderow]

Its not even about galacticos as I have tried to pointedly make clear throughout this thread.

Its about the "above average" players, who are over valued by their clubs.

Yeah the mean price might, but all other averages would stay roughly the same.

I thought we were talking about above average players?

[Thedore]

Everyone is pigeonholed into developing young talent and mixing it up with good, astute purchases of aged players or unknowns from other countries?

Yes, spot on, it's called Football. There are very few teams around that can build squads the way you want to, and even they cannot buy anyone they want whenever they feel like it.

Why do you keep telling me its called football? Is that a tic of some sort? :confused:

No, dont agree. The problem is when noone can buy any player of reputation because theyre all massively over valued by their AI clubs. Not that difficult a concept to grasp. Users are pigeonholed into ONLY buying young players because thats the only viable option. In real life, big clubs have to buy young players, yes, but they are also able to augment their squad with appropriately priced players nearing their peak, and not have to pay £60m odd for the privelege.

That is because "they are important to the club and the club doesn't want to sell them".

Theres a marked difference between rejecting a reasonable sized offer and rejecting a massive bid thats not going to happen in real life, all because the AI overvalues them.

[Thedore]

I thought we were talking about above average players?

My mistake. I misread that as the average value for a player would go up. But anyway, I dont agree with that. In real life, the Cronaldo transfer didnt mean that the value of all wingers suddenly shot up. The economy of football doesnt work like that.

[SFraser]

The AI "overvalues" them for a reason. It considers them key players for the club, regardless of how much their basic onscreen value is. To buy a key player from another club you are going to have to pay huge amounts of money. They are KEY players.

[Thedore]

As the old adage goes, every player has their price, and seeing a modest club reject a hefty fee for a player thats not a world beater because they think hes worth more is shambolic.

[afced7]

In real life, the Cronaldo transfer didnt mean that the value of all wingers suddenly shot up. The economy of football doesnt work like that.

Correct, but it could force the value of players with a similar ability up, as managers think, 'well if Ronaldo's worth 80mil, my players worth x amount' whereas they may previously have accepted a lower offer. Though I highly doubt this is implemented in the game.

[aderow]

Here's how I feel. Like I said.....when the prices of world class players go up, prices for above average players go up as well. I think that the same can be said for average players as well.

World class or not, they play in the same league and if have a stellar year, they will become a big part of their team.....and that team will not want to sell you.

Even if your an average player, if you perform exceptionally your stock will increase and so will your value. An in a world where over 10 transfers we made over 20 million, you think that smaller teams not slap a higher price tag on their players?

This probably doesn't back up my point but you look at Ivica Olic. He scored in both legs against Man Utd. If someone tries to sign him do you think bayern will demand anything less than 20....heck even 30 million?

[SFraser]

You don't understand. The club doesn't think he is "worth more". The club doesn't want to sell him.

The only reason you can get him is because you put in a rediculous bid the AI can't refuse.

[Thedore]

Its ridiculous, mate.

And I understand perfectly. There gets to a point where every player will be sold. Unfortunately that point in game is set far too high.

[afced7]

seeing a modest club reject a hefty fee for a player thats not a world beater because they think hes worth more is shambolic.

Depends on how modest, depends on the heftiness of the fee, depends on the players ability, because in fact, that sounds realistic, and THIS is a perfect example of where the 'tapping up' interaction needs to be used.

[SFraser]

What's rediculous is you thinking that every player in the game should be buyable for a "reasonable price". That's not how it works in real life.

Look at the rumours of Manchester City offering Liverpool £100m for Torres. Torres is not a £100m player, but Torres is not for sale either.

[aderow]

Every club is trying to accomplish something and they will not allow other teams to come and poach their players just because a bigger team comes in with a 'reasonable price'.

[Thedore]

By reasonable, im meaning players that would be sold for around the 30m mark in real life, being available for 30m in the game. That doesnt happen.

And seriously, theres no point coming off all aloof and important if you cant even gather yourself to spell ridiculous correctly.

[aderow]

darren bent was not considered an above average player and yet he has scored like 22 goals this season in the prem. If anyone was to try and sign him they would likely have to drop over 20 million for him.

[SFraser]

darren bent was not considered an above average player and yet he has scored like 22 goals this season in the prem. If anyone was to try and sign him they would likely have to drop over 20 million for him.

Though if the club wanting to buy him unsettled him and turned his head, then waited untill near the end of his contract to make a bid, the price would drop quickly.

If he is happy where he is and repeatedly signs new 5 year deals, and the club don't want to sell him, good luck trying to get anything like a realistic price for him.

[aderow]

By reasonable, im meaning players that would be sold for around the 30m mark in real life, being available for 30m in the game. That doesnt happen.

And seriously, theres no point coming off all aloof and important if you cant even gather yourself to spell ridiculous correctly.

lets just stick to the topic...besides, you misspelled a couple words yourself

[afced7]

I just thought of an example to illustrate the 'club doesn't want to sell' point. Shaun Wright Phillips. A player who played very well for Man City, and was a big part of their team. He wasn't a world beater but Chelsea wanted him, and because he was so valuable to City, Chelsea payed way over the odds (IMO) to get him. Also could you provide an example of a '30 mil' player in your game Theodore, who's been valued way over the odds because I've actually struggled to find that many in my game.

[aderow]

Though if the club wanting to buy him unsettled him and turned his head, then waited untill near the end of his contract to make a bid, the price would drop quickly.

Im sure it would but then there's the world cup coming up this year. If he is called up and plays well.....who knows how much his value will increase......maybe harry will try and bring him back

[Cougar2010]

By reasonable, im meaning players that would be sold for around the 30m mark in real life, being available for 30m in the game. That doesnt happen.

Take your blinkers off.

Time and time again its been proved that it does happen.

[Thedore]

I just thought of an example to illustrate the 'club doesn't want to sell' point. Shaun Wright Phillips. A player who played very well for Man City, and was a big part of their team. He wasn't a world beater but Chelsea wanted him, and because he was so valuable to City, Chelsea payed way over the odds (IMO) to get him. Also could you provide an example of a '30 mil' player in your game Theodore, who's been valued way over the odds because I've actually struggled to find that many in my game.

Mauro Zarate - 42m

Mirko Vucinic - 38.5m

They'll never get that amount in real life. Ever.