But isn't the Tactics Creator cheating? (Or am I just feeling guilty?)

[Mr Mikey787878]

I was wondering - does everyone now use the Tactics Creator?

I continued using my old tactics in fm10 and via the old slider system. I just ignored the Tactics Creator as a fad - it seemed like FM-lite. But coming back to it after awhile -the whole tactics forum seems to be using it!

I had a go last night and instantly my team were playing sweeping posession football, interchanging passes and using space and movement really well both offensively and defensively. Sure it needed some tweaking to create clear cut chances, but broadly it worked out of the box.

This is not true of any "slider" created tactic - much more honing is usually required!

I don't really know why it "feels" wrong to use the Tactics Creator - partially perhaps because I feel like I haven't spent hours creating and tweaking the tactic - it doesn't feel like "mine". I know this isn't really true - that actually all the TC does is adjust the same sliders about in response to what I tell it. It's just that it all felt a little too easy...

But at the same time, my team is shocking away from home and the idea of a TC generated effective tactic is quite appealling....

So - will i get used to it "feeling wrong"? Is it FM-lite? And where has the management skill gone? Why isn't everyone else getting promotion after promotion with this?

Help me make the decision...

[Cleon]

It's easier to get a solid base by using the TC as it defines roles for you, which you can then tweak. A lot of people still using classic sliders (myself included unless doing a thread for the forum) as it seems you get more 'control' over what you are doing. Before people used to complain about the complexability of the sliders, not they don't have to feel that way if they use the TC. It takes a lot of the unknown away from making tactics and most people should be able to translate how they want to play now.

[Dutch Delight]

Like most people, I use the Tactics Creator to create a solid base and structure. When I'm satisfied with the basics I tweak the sliders to my likings, it's as simple as that. The best of both worlds.

[michelco]

I often use the TC to create the base then convert into classic and tweak tempo and width and save a attack, a standard and a defensive tactics since I don't like how the TC define the tempo and width in it's own strategies.

[Odeyia]

I still use the sliders for the reasons written above ... it's the feeling I so much enjoy about this game: the possibility to tweak the tactics over and over again and to have control over even the slightest tactical instruction.

I found the most interesting part of the TC to be the possibility to convert those tactics into classic. To see how the notches move when changing a defender from a covering to a stopper duty ... How the game interprets even the slightest changes. I was actually pretty surprised by how little the sliders differ when changing between some duties. (Like for a stopper/covering defender) So it provides a lot more understanding of the slider system and helped me a lot in tinkering with my tactics.

The TC also provides a very good insight of how a player could play. What duties he could be assigned to. To be honest: I wouldn't have thought something up like a trequartista duty or something of this nature. I like the TC and I was pleasently surprised when FM2010 was released. So I rather see the TC as a helpful hand and a really good addition, but I will always stick to the sliders.

[Mr Mikey787878]

Maybe this is the best way forward then - to spend some time with the TC to help me better understand sliders, but then go back to sliders via convert to classic? That means you can't use the "shouts" features though right? Am i missing much with that?

And yes, the TC impressed me too - particularly how the roles were so well defined and so obviously different to watch. But i think overall I need to feel i've created the tactic and really worked at it - it's those games when it comes off and looks so slick - i need the ego boost from that i guess. Ultimately the TC leaves me feeling a bit like my younger days of downlodaing others' tactics - it's just not the same.

I like being involved!

[Dutch Delight]

Personally I refrain from converting my tactics to classic as I really like the touch line shouts. However it is completely possible to replicate the effects you get from shouts in classic mode, it's just that I'm too lazy to do so during games and prefer using the much quicker option. It would involve using the sliders and even though I love tweaking sliders to perfect my tactics, when I'm actually playing I just want to focus on the pitch and the touch line shouts make that much easier for me.

[drunkrob]

I've barely played FM10 because I hate the new tactics creator and bugs me there is two ways to go about it.

[Mr Mikey787878]

So having explored it a bit more now - why do some folk say sliders give you more control? It seems you can alter everything you could in the original sliders version by clicking the "advanced" setting? So does the "more control" just come from greater familiarity as you've probably toggled sliders through blood, sweat and tears before getting the right balance? Or am i missing something?

[Suzie MUFC]

So having explored it a bit more now - why do some folk say sliders give you more control? It seems you can alter everything you could in the original sliders version by clicking the "advanced" setting? So does the "more control" just come from greater familiarity as you've probably toggled sliders through blood, sweat and tears before getting the right balance? Or am i missing something?

For me, Classic has more control simply because using the creator is going by someone else's tactical ideals, which go against the way I want my team to play. And if I make some manual settings, these would clash with any touchline shouts I make because they wouldn't adjust to reflect the shouts, so the whole thing ends up a mess, basically.

[Cleon]

So having explored it a bit more now - why do some folk say sliders give you more control? It seems you can alter everything you could in the original sliders version by clicking the "advanced" setting? So does the "more control" just come from greater familiarity as you've probably toggled sliders through blood, sweat and tears before getting the right balance? Or am i missing something?

Because some of the mentality and closing down setting's the roles and strategy's give you aren't how I'd want to set my player's up. So I end up changing the slider's anyway, that's why I feel I get more control from the classic view.

[Thunda]

I never understood why the Touchline Shouts don't just change things relatively so that they can be used with individual slider settings .. If I use the TC and then use a shout to "get the ball forward" more often, the slider notches for passing go up 4 (or whatever the number is) .. but not if I've got individual slider settings in for the player .. why not just combine the two methods in that regard .. I only use the TC because I rely on the shouts during a game .. I like to quickly change things from time to time during a match and messing about changing individual slider settings for all players numerous times in a match just bores me .. If I specifically set a slider for a player to 15 .. and then use a shout that would change that slider for all the default settings - why not change those individually set too? It much easier to then go in and change one or two slider settings to what you desire after a shout if you want, than to have to change every players sliders without using a shout.

[Cleon]

I never understood why the Touchline Shouts don't just change things relatively so that they can be used with individual slider settings .. If I use the TC and then use a shout to "get the ball forward" more often, the slider notches for passing go up 4 (or whatever the number is) .. but not if I've got individual slider settings in for the player .. why not just combine the two methods in that regard .. I only use the TC because I rely on the shouts during a game .. I like to quickly change things from time to time during a match and messing about changing individual slider settings for all players numerous times in a match just bores me .. If I specifically set a slider for a player to 15 .. and then use a shout that would change that slider for all the default settings - why not change those individually set too? It much easier to then go in and change one or two slider settings to what you desire after a shout if you want, than to have to change every players sliders without using a shout.

It's because if someone sets someone individually then they want that to override the team settings. So they''ve been set up to play different and disregard teams settings. Combining them like you say would make individual settings redundant and there wouldn't be a real need for them anymore. You'd have to play a set way and wouldn't be able to change things.

[Thunda]

Well stick a little check box then that asks "Have Shouts Relativiely Change Individual Settings?" .. I'd rather play with Shouts because its far more realistic to me than individually changing every single players slider settings numerous times through a game - yet that means the shouts don't effect those individual settings and makes them pointless ...

Say I have a Balanced Standard 442 in the TC .. yet I want my MCa to play with a little more Mentality - one notch less than my striker, say .. great, I'll manually up his mentality slider setting .. I find in the game that I'm holding on to a 1-0 lead and being bombarded and want to go Defensive - so I make the "Shout" for that .. everyones mentality drops barring my MCa who's still set to "Chatting With The Oppositions Keeper" mentality .. so I have to go in a change is Mentality slider back down to the one below the attacker which defeats the point of using the shout (certainly if there were numerous players with individual tweaks) .. with an option to change everything relatively .. my MCa with his individual slider setting will just drop down 4 notches like everyone else and still be 1 notch less than the attacker as I want ..

I just think its daft to have a Tactics Creator, in game Shouts and the ability to tweak individual sliders and not have the 3 of them work in conjuction with each other if the player opted for it .. a couple of lines of code just to make things simpler and something that could encourage people to individually tweak a little more .. As I say, I'd prefer to use the sliders individually as in previous versions of FM .. but am too lazy in game to tweak and tweak and would rather use the more realistic shouts.

[TheBetterHalf]

Well stick a little check box then that asks "Have Shouts Relativiely Change Individual Settings?" ...

I agree that this option would be great if it would be absolute custom made for me and my approach.

In my case - using my current approach in the current save - , this box would apply only to the closing down settings and none of the other tweaked settings. My tweaked closing down settings would be relatively changed BUT NOT my creative AMC who has had his mentality tweaked, set to 10 so he always stays in the hole no matter shouts used. The same goes for my MR/L that have been tweaked as I always want to have run from deep set to often, even though going "Counter" and not Attack. So you see, that if making such a check box, it would have to apply only and only to the settings that one do want to be changed and not the others, making it impossible to have such a check box if it was to suit other users than me and other approaches then I am using at the moment

[StormenDK]

I personally love the new TC ... as I really couldn't be bothered to mess around with the sliders every time I needed to change something, and having to figure out how to set them so my midfielder would fill the Box-to-Box role f.x.

I definitely don't see it as cheating ... and having a "lite" version is what we more casual gamers need. I don't want to sit and spend 30 min. before each game tweaking things, or having 18 different tactics saved where only a few slider changes differ between each.

This is much easier for me to handle and understand.