[Discussion] Barcelona. Pep. Tiki-Taca. Messi. Let's Keep It All In Here

[Mr Enigma]

I thought it would be a good idea to keep all discussions about Barcelona and their playing style in one thread. Reason why I posted last years team is because the team that did the treble last season is one of the best teams of modern times. Fair enough at the point of writing they were just stuffed by Inter 3-1 at the San Siro but I think it was more down to te fact that Pep shouldn't of played Ibra in that game. But enough about that.

Tactically, Barcelona generally stuck to a 4-3-3 shape throughout the season playing with a high defence line and pressing starting from the front. However sometimes the formation would alter when Eto'o played down the rigth flank and Messi played as false nine (basically just swapping positions and Messi playing deeper) which ultimately became united's undoing in the Champions League final. When they did play the formation in the picture Messi was given freedom to come off the flank whilst Henry stayed wide and cut inside. In midfield Iniesta played further forward, Xavi was the "link" and Toure sat deep in front of the defence. In defence the centrebacks would spread wide, especially when Valdes had the ball and Toure would come deep to make it a temporary three back line to allow Abidal and Alves to move forward.

Of course it is a difficult style to implement in FM but I thought with a nice group discussion we could come up with an FM replica if you like. Obviously Eto'o has been replaced by Ibrahimovic up front for the season and a plan B has been introduced where Messi moves further in to create something a little different but I believe the core (Defence and midfield) stays pretty much the same all season. It's just up front it may look a little more different from time to time.

[Mr Enigma]

Team Instructions:

What I'm about to post is just my opinion of what suits Barcelona best in terms of their team instructions. If we start with Philosophy and Starting Strategy I think this is what discribes Barcelona best -

Philosophy is a tough cookie with Barcelona. It's somewhere between Balanced and Fluid but mostly I think the fluidity is more up front and that is something that can be adjusted with the individual player mentality. However starting strategy I think is perfect. Standard is too defensive and Attacking is too risky for their play.

In terms of playing style I think that Barcelona play shorter then default and press more to win the ball and pressurize the opponents high up the pitch. When it comes to creative freedom I would say some a limited some are default and some are more expressive. Again it is something to alter with the player instructions later. Marking is Zonal as I don't believe they don't pick up man for man and roaming is set to "More Roaming" as I believe the whole front five roam to make space. Tackling and Crossing is set to default as they don't have any perticular preference.

As for Playmakers and Specific Instructions I have gone for this. Xavi as playmaker so he remains the "link". I've gone for a high d-line, wide width, slow tempo and high time-wasting. Only thing I'm a little unsure of is the timewasting but theoretically it should go hand in hand with tempo? Whereas quick would be low time-wasting? Something to discuss I guess.

[Mr Enigma]

Player Instructions - (Work In Progress)

[Wilson7]

Watching them this year , pedro and messi are the main wide players and seem to have worked more of inside forwards but playing at a CAM role with move into channels & ibrahimovic maybe as a deep lying forward because irl he never stays frowards kind of drops into the hole i think ,i havent tried this tactic on fm . just my opnion

ss to show what i mean

http://img145.imageshack.us/i/barcaay.jpg/

[vasilli07]

Actually, Barca also plays a 4-2-4 kinda of formation these days.

Is Barcelona’s alternative shape really a 4-2-4?

Arsenal 2-2 Barcelona: Wenger’s side utterly outclassed, but rescue a draw

[Wilson7]

yeah i guess thats not a bad shout it being a 4-2-4 .. whatever it did it works apart from last night but there aloud to have one bad game id love to give it a try making a perfect barca tactic & chip in with more words here , but i got a osasuna save going which is going to make me headbutt the wall very soon =]

[Mr Enigma]

Watching them this year , pedro and messi are the main wide players and seem to have worked more of inside forwards but playing at a CAM role with move into channels & ibrahimovic maybe as a deep lying forward because irl he never stays frowards kind of drops into the hole i think ,i havent tried this tactic on fm . just my opnion

ss to show what i mean

http://img145.imageshack.us/i/barcaay.jpg/

Agreed that Messi and Pedro when playing on the flanks play as Inside Forwards with "Move Into Channels". Alternatively Pedro as Cut inside and Messi with Move Into Channels would also not be far off. I think in FM it would be best to keep Ibra on the same mentality as the Inside Forwards to create total fluidity.

Actually, Barca also plays a 4-2-4 kinda of formation these days.

Is Barcelona’s alternative shape really a 4-2-4?

Arsenal 2-2 Barcelona: Wenger’s side utterly outclassed, but rescue a draw

I was touching on that in the opening post but I still would rule it to be a 4-3-3 but the three up front positioned diffrently. One on the flank and two in the centre but the other "winger" is positioned between MCL and ML still making it three in midfield.

[Mr Enigma]

yeah i guess thats not a bad shout it being a 4-2-4 .. whatever it did it works apart from last night but there aloud to have one bad game id love to give it a try making a perfect barca tactic & chip in with more words here , but i got a osasuna save going which is going to make me headbutt the wall very soon =]

Barca's downfall yesterday was, IMO, down to Guardiola picking Ibra to play. I bet Mourinho was smiling inside when he saw that because he knew Samuel and Lucio would contain him. Why Guardiola didnt' start with Messi up front as he did against Arsenal and Madrid is a mystery.

[kaskovic]

Does someone has the best formation for FC.Barcelona on football manager with the tactics?

[Zico10]

Enigma, I think Fluid/Attacking describe Barca much closer to real life, and tackling on the easy side, except 2 CB's and DMC on normal. The team specific instructions are spot on imo. The time wasting have no link with tempo. It just gives the player time to pick up a better passing option instead of a hurried pass.

[dankrzyz]

Does someone has the best formation for FC.Barcelona on football manager with the tactics?

Yes. Lots of people have lots of different best tactics for Barcelona. Use the [sEARCH] function for "Barcelona tactic" or "Barca tactic" would be my advice. Read & perhaps download some tactics and try them out yourself.

[Zico10]

Yes. Lots of people have lots of different best tactics for Barcelona. Use the [sEARCH] function for "Barcelona tactic" or "Barca tactic" would be my advice. Read & perhaps download some tactics and try them out yourself.

Or what about if he develops one himself, and enjoy the pleasure of his own creation??! With Barca is not that hard to succeed...

[dankrzyz]

Or what about if he develops one himself, and enjoy the pleasure of his own creation??! With Barca is not that hard to succeed...

I agree completely. That's my best suggestion. The TC makes it a little easier to understand the football choices you're making and implement them in the game. Play with it, observe, and tweak your tactics until your players perform their very best. That's a manager's job!

[Mr Enigma]

Enigma, I think Fluid/Attacking describe Barca much closer to real life, and tackling on the easy side, except 2 CB's and DMC on normal. The team specific instructions are spot on imo. The time wasting have no link with tempo. It just gives the player time to pick up a better passing option instead of a hurried pass.

The problem with Fluid philosophy is that it only divides the ten outfield players into two seperate bands of mentalities so I think it needs to be a bit more detailed then that in order to get the right balance in the team. I'm not talking a rigid system but just more defined in order to get it more correct.

[Mr Enigma]

So first position up for debate is Valdes. As you see I have him up for Sweeper Keeper on Support duty. Now the reason I have for this is I think playing with a high line he does come off to sweep in behind the backline. However I think he plays more cautious then a regular keeper when it comes to counter attacking balls and most of the time just distributes to the central defenders.

However this is experimental because if he gets too involved in play in FM he might have to have a lower mentality (lower then the backline) so he isn't constantly an outlet. I think however the CF is spot on with a dead centre freedom meaning he'll play his normal game not being too elaborate or too restricted.

Closing down is also experimental depending on how his mentality effects him and is it enough for him if the ball goes behind the defence? RFD and RWB mixed are set because he is comfortable with the ball at his feet and doesn't mind coming out of his box a bit and then lay off to the central defender(s).

What do you guys think?

[rune_star]

Well, first off it looks decent enough for a Barca goalie except the passing stuff...

I wouldn't have him on ultra short as we've seen on numerous occasions that he launches a super fast long ball to either one of the wingers, or directly towards the striker. Remember Pedro's amazing 40 meters goal against Bilbao a couple of weeks ago? Valdes kicked it all the way, looking for the strikers run, the other goalie then flunked his clearance straight into Pedro, and the rest is history ;-)

Furthermore, he absolutely doesn't just give the ball to Pique, partly for the reason mentioned above, but if he distributes short, he is more likely to go for Toure/Busquets/Xavi (whoevers deeper) or one of the fullbacks...

On a more general notion, I'm against ticking each and everyone of players individual settings. The individual settings will always overrule all other settings, thus making the entire Tactics Creator useless... You'll still be able to use shouts, they just won't have any effects on anything, since all settings are already set individually... It's just my preference and others may like to play with complete control of all settings, but I just love to use the shouts to change the way the team is playing with carefully selected individual settings ;-)

But thumbs up for a great thread. Lets keep it going :-)

[Mr Enigma]

Well, first off it looks decent enough for a Barca goalie except the passing stuff...

I wouldn't have him on ultra short as we've seen on numerous occasions that he launches a super fast long ball to either one of the wingers, or directly towards the striker. Remember Pedro's amazing 40 meters goal against Bilbao a couple of weeks ago? Valdes kicked it all the way, looking for the strikers run, the other goalie then flunked his clearance straight into Pedro, and the rest is history ;-)

Furthermore, he absolutely doesn't just give the ball to Pique, partly for the reason mentioned above, but if he distributes short, he is more likely to go for Toure/Busquets/Xavi (whoevers deeper) or one of the fullbacks...

On a more general notion, I'm against ticking each and everyone of players individual settings. The individual settings will always overrule all other settings, thus making the entire Tactics Creator useless... You'll still be able to use shouts, they just won't have any effects on anything, since all settings are already set individually... It's just my preference and others may like to play with complete control of all settings, but I just love to use the shouts to change the way the team is playing with carefully selected individual settings ;-)

But thumbs up for a great thread. Lets keep it going :-)

Sorry, should of said I was ticking each individual setting was just purely cosmetic to make it look "clearer" in a way. Maybe I was unsucessfull

Maybe I just need to have through balls on mixed? If his passing is set higher then he'll constantly go more direct but if I have TTB on mixed he might occausionally look for a "counter ball" if it's on. Something to test anyway Thanks for your input

[Mirallas]

going to start a new game with barca, gonna play a slow short pass possesion play 4-1-2-3 tactic but only doubt is should it be very wide or more normal-narrow

[kingmike666]

I've played a very similar set up with Arsenal, and I've yet to decide on the exact width settings that work best, very wide seems to work better against some teams, a more normal width seems to work better against others. I would go for a high-normal width and use the shouts of "play wider" or "play narrower" if you're struggling to break teams down or being exposed too often. Shouts are an excellent way of making these kinds of adjustments from game to game.

Ideally you want your Wingers to be playing relatively narrown whilst keeping your full backs overlapping outwide, so using the "wide play" instructions and RFD instructions properly is vital to the set up here.

[Mirallas]

thx for the comment, made a tactic that seems to work well, played 7 friendlies pre-season scoring 41 and conceding 0, having about 60-65 % ballpercentage and playing really nice football.

edit: so just played my first official match in spanish sc at Athletic trashed them 0-5

[suikoden]

Barca's downfall yesterday was, IMO, down to Guardiola picking Ibra to play. I bet Mourinho was smiling inside when he saw that because he knew Samuel and Lucio would contain him. Why Guardiola didnt' start with Messi up front as he did against Arsenal and Madrid is a mystery.

He would have smiled more if Messi was upfront. You cannot compare Arsenal or Madrid's centerbacks to Inter's. Lucio and Samuel are veteran defenders with outstanding anticipation and a few dirty tricks. They aren't the type that would let Messi dribble past 4 guys in limited space. Against Inter Messi would have been better served playing wider with more room and to make the fullback think twice about counter-attacking or getting forward. That allows them to push higher and control the middle with their triangle midfield and not have to worry about one of the flanks so much. This also allows them to execute their famous high pressing.

I would agree that picking Ibrahimovic to play is suspect in hindsight. But if he played well he can be devastating holding up the ball and having enough height and strength to hold off defenders. Kinda like what Pique did in second leg when he scored that goal. IMO Pep made the right choice, it is just that Ibrahimovic had a really bad game.

Inter don't get the credit they deserve. Its all about Barca stuffed up or how could they not score in the 2nd leg....Inter has a very good side and a top manager with much more experience than Pep

[SFraser]

Barca's downfall yesterday was, IMO, down to Guardiola picking Ibra to play. I bet Mourinho was smiling inside when he saw that because he knew Samuel and Lucio would contain him. Why Guardiola didnt' start with Messi up front as he did against Arsenal and Madrid is a mystery.

I would have to disagree. I think Barca's downfall was failing to exploit the space down the flanks in anything close to a productive manner.

Look at the second half of the second leg between Manchester United and Bayern Munich. United went down to ten men and employed a formation very similar to Inter, but in that game Bayern had productivity down the flanks and exploited the space down the flanks to devestating effect after the sending off. Possession, threat, build-up play, and a combination of quality and accuracy was a lethal cocktail against United. By contrast Barcelona were incredibly wasteful from wide positions.

When Messi did eventually pull wide, he delivered an inch perfect cross to create an absolute sitter for that young forward of Barca's. However that was the exception and not the trend.

Personally, having watched the second leg, I thought Ibrahimovic and ultimately Barcelona as a team was the victim of Guardiolas tactical naivety.

[suikoden]

I don't understand why the term tactical naivety gets bandied about so often for managers playing to their philosophy. Wenger and Pep gets labeled naive often for their obsession with beautiful football. They believe it is the right way to play the game. I don't agree with that. There is no right way to play the game but I don't think they are tactically naive. They have a strong conviction to have their team play to their philosophy or the clubs philosophy.

People lauded Peps football when they stuck to their possession football against Chelsea last year to the last minute and won. Now he is criticized.