I'm so sure this game "cheats"

[LENNYG1]

I don't mean exploits to beat the ME, I mean the ability to spot things that others with a less 'tactical' brain wouldn't see etc. You often hear people on here telling you to analyze every single detail, to look at every stat etc in the game to help guarantee likelyhood of success instead of relyng on random runs. I.E. If you're good enough 'tactically' you can dictate your fate more

of course if you are better tactically better than someone else you will do better!

You keep contradicting yourself first you say that the game is rigged now you say the better you are at tactics the better you will do, you also state

look at every stat etc in the game to help guarantee likelyhood of success instead of relyng on random runs.

If I thought something is rigged 'random' is one of the last words I would use to describe it

Im sorry if I have quoted you out of context but its like your talking in circles

[aderow]

I don't mean exploits to beat the ME, I mean the ability to spot things that others with a less 'tactical' brain wouldn't see etc. You often hear people on here telling you to analyze every single detail, to look at every stat etc in the game to help guarantee likelyhood of success instead of relyng on random runs. I.E. If you're good enough 'tactically' you can dictate your fate more

You don't have to analyze every little detail to find success in this game......but at the same time it doesn't hurt to have a little knowledge.

At the end of the day if you are having trouble with an aspect of the game, ask for help on the tactics forum.

The amount of stuff I have learned about this game, and football in general, on the forum is mind blowing. There are so many people who are really knowledgeable in this stuff and they can help you find a solution.

[Jme10]

Maybe we need new positions in that case don't you think? I mean, to say that Gerrard and Messi (both AM RLC I believe?) are similar players is stupid. Maybe we need WG (Winger) or IF (Inside Forward)?

No, they are not positions, they are roles.

[Wilson123]

The game has to have that random element, otherwise it isn't football. There is always that 'what if?' moment in the game - take my trip to hillsborough at the last game of the season last year. We drew and subsequently got relegated. On another day Leon Clarke wouldn't kick the sponsor board and break his toe; Varney would have scored his one on one; Jeffers could have repaid the S6 faithful and not missed from 2 yards.

It is annoying when you bury shots in and the keeper is saving it all but react to it - overload, work the ball in. I admit when I play I get annoyed when you pick up 2/3 knocks were the computer is blatantly taking chunks out of my players...my reaction...got aggressive and kick them back.

I'm bemused at times how my Liverpool team beat Ac, arsenal and man utd then lose to wolves but that's football IRL. It might be annoying but that's the game we love and fm replicates just that.

[TazzFM]

I am tired of seeing these threads on this forum, the game does not cheat, and by giving these people answers we are only insulting our own intelligence, for their lack of being able to understand a game engine.

this be the last time I answer one of these cheats, scripted engine threads!.

players have good games, players have bad games, morale effects how a player players also fitness then their is team talks and opposition instructions.

you might be having shot after shot after shot, but if the person taking the shot is being man marked and the cpu has opposition instructions to crowd your man out he wont get a good shot off will he - a basic example, you can't win every game.

[imagawa99]

I think the important thing to remember is that we try to make a game we want to play ourselves

have you played 2011 much ?

[Lazaru5]

have you played 2011 much ?

has anybody?

[Guest]

I dont think it cheats but to make up for poor AI they give them a boost to help them compete with humans. They make the game easier for the comp in other words.

[rcoobc]

It definantly used to cheat. I don't know if it does anymore, but a few years back i played a season where every game i would then go back and replay until the result changed (to see if it does cheat). And yeah every now and again I would come across a game where no matter what formation i used, what team talk i gave etc etc i would always lose the match. UNLESS i cheated in such a way by adding a user to the other team then the result could be anything.

This game i don't worry about it anymore i just keep pushing continue, don't look at the elephant in the room because it kills the game. I don't know why the game seems to hard code the outcome of some games, but it might be to stop people cheating, which is almost understandable. If you want to keep playing a game over and over until you win every now and again you get a game where you waste your life. At least thats how it used to be.

[Carmi88]

replaying a match over 200 times? only proves ur sad

[Guest]

Some games are almost unwinnable, doesnt matter how your team plays The other team will win, even if the team is weaker than you.

Some factors are already taken into account before you press the start button. Mainly moral I think but who knows what else is in the equation. If you are reloading a save and going back to the exact same point everytime all these factors will stay the same. So pretty much the same result will happen.

Maybe, before the game it calculates you have a 90% chance of losing because of all the factors that are calculated before the game. Give the right teamtalk it might boost your chances to 85% and the right tactics knocks it down to 75%. Youre still odds on to lose.

Tactics and players arent as much an important factor these days, or basically it would just be a case of having good tactics and the best players and you win everygame.

Another thing, its no good looking at your opponent as it seems the same rules dont apply to them, moral and form and stuff dont seem to have the same effect it has on a human as it does the AI. Basically because of my first post about the AI not being as good as humans. Basically if the same rules apllied to them it would be too easy.

Thats my thoughts on it anyway.

Y

[Azuru]

The game may 'cheat' because success is based around 'probability' which means you could do absolute **** with the best tactics ever devised. I.E. You might come across a match where your stats (conditions that you don't see) are so low that winning that game, on that day, at that time, may be ver near impossible. The game is based around %.

Edit: What is the probability % of your players playing great on that day? You don't control that just like you don't control that IRL. You will have an idea of the probability if you Save & load, see how many times you beat that team on that particular day

[SCIAG]

Edit: What is the probability % of your players playing great on that day? You don't control that just like you don't control that IRL.

You can control their motivation and morale. Beyond that, it depends on their consistency- 20 consistency is an 80% chance of a player playing to his best, every point below is worth 4%.

[SCIAG]

It's a video game, so it 'obviously' needs some sort of advantage in order to compete with a human (I.E. A better goal scoring ratio). Are people thick or something? Oh and it's not really cheating. It's not actually cheating because it is the 'only' way to make the game a challenge

Please don't bump old threads.

[Azuru]

You can't control everything is what I'm sayng

Also...

Reputation

Experience

Those also affect your probability of success. I.E. Experience makes you a better manager & therefore the players will up their game for you. Stats that you don't see. This is why the game appears to get easier the longer you play it.

Edit: Trying managing a terrible team your first season, it's impossible. Why? Because it depends on your experience (by that I mean how long you play the game). Go back to those crap teams after your 15th season (that's plenty of experience) & then think about tactics, when the playing field is a little more even

[dfa120374]

I think that game holds a measure of randomness just like real life. Im sure that if a game was replayed multiple times in real life, the results would vary.

This is exactly my concept as well. No matter how many times a game gets played between two teams the outcome of results are never guaranteed to be the same. I've seen people moan that thay haven't changed tactics, kept the same line-ups etc and yet they have lost or drawn those and I can't understand why THEY don't understand that. You can keep the same starting tactics and same line-ups but that doesn't guarantee the same result because of many varying factors.

Example - Celtic playerd Aberdeen FOUR times within the space of just under 2 months - 3 of those matches were in the space of 10 days. First game as a resounding result for Celtic as they won 9-0. Second match they won 1-0. Third match they won 4-1 and the fourth match they won 3-0 with 2 of the goals coming in the last 20 mins. Now, yeh, Celtic won all those matches BUT the scores are very different. If you played the first match and got a 9-0 win and then replayed it - with the same tactics and players - I will guarantee you, you still wouldn't get the same 9-0 result.

As for the game cheating? Absolutely not so it's ridiculous to even think that it does. Although sometimes when something bad happens it easy to THINK it does.

[aderow]

You can't control everything is what I'm sayng

Also...

Reputation

Experience

Those also affect your probability of success. I.E. Experience makes you a better manager & therefore the players will up their game for you. Stats that you don't see. This is why the game appears to get easier the longer you play it.

Edit: Trying managing a terrible team your first season, it's impossible. Why? Because it depends on your experience (by that I mean how long you play the game). Go back to those crap teams after your 15th season (that's plenty of experience) & then think about tactics, when the playing field is a little more even

You are not supposed to be able to control everything.

Oh and managing a bad team first season is supposed to be difficult.

[CaptainPlanet]

It's a video game, so it 'obviously' needs some sort of advantage in order to compete with a human (I.E. A better goal scoring ratio). Are people thick or something? Oh and it's not really cheating. It's not actually cheating because it is the 'only' way to make the game a challenge

Random upage from Azuru who was clearly searching the forums for "cheats" and found a 6 month old thread.

[dafuge]

Random upage from Azuru who was clearly searching the forums for "cheats" and found a 6 month old thread.

That's what happens when you encourage people to use the search function

[Azuru]

Because people are being dumb when they say it doesn't cheat, it has to, look at the transfer system for example, the computer AI gets the players way cheaper than the human. I've seen my bids being rejected for this player and then the computer AI bid for the same player being accepted the next day for half the price.

[wwfan]

From what I can tell, Azuru has hypothesised that the game cheats because he cannot do very well with a poor team in his first season. The reasoning seems to be:

1: Azuru is a brilliant Football Manager, with an awesome grasp of tactics and statistical detail

2: He is unable to win a match with a poor team in his first season

3: Therefore, the game cheats

Perfectly sound logic. Might be an issue with an assumption somewhere along the line though.

[CaptainPlanet]

Wait wwfan, if you say the AI doesn't cheat, you are being dumb!

Apparantly.

[Azuru]

Dude I realize you are a Mod but you are being dumb here, the game has to cheat to some extent, does your computer have an actual brain? It has to have some sort of advantage in some areas. This shoud be common knowledge to everyone. It 'cheats' to make up for the fact that it doesn't have a brain. I.E. You need a brain to negotiate

And yes, I still play this game

[Riverplate]

Its called artificial intelligence u foolish noob... the game does have its brain, it can process information and change accordingly. If you are winning 2-0, the game will change its tactics from 4-5-1 to 4-2-4, thats common reasoning so the game does have A BRAIN. I think you are confusing CHEATS with BUGS. AI teams getting players for a cheap price but u cannot do so is a very annoying bug, not a cheat. A cheat would be players from Hull City trying to bounce back from a 3-0 loss, suddenly starts running faster and all their stats improves dramatically. Many games u can change the difficulty, which in turn equals more or less cheating. In this game, u cannot change difficulty. The lower the team you pick, the harder it gets. I mean come on, who irl expects Wolves to win the EPL...

[Cougar2010]

Yer wwfan, your being dumb

Its not like you've been involved in building the match engine or writing any guides to FM or anything.............

[aderow]

Dude I realize you are a Mod but you are being dumb here, the game has to cheat to some extent, does your computer have an actual brain? It has to have some sort of advantage in some areas. This shoud be common knowledge to everyone. It 'cheats' to make up for the fact that it doesn't have a brain. I.E. You need a brain to negotiate

And yes, I still play this game

Does the game have an actual brain? No of course not. If it did, it would likely be planning the extermination of the human race. Does the game have Artificial Intelligence? Yes.

Yes the AI has its issues but it is competent enough within the game to compete with you no matter how good you are at the game.

The game 'cheating' is not believed to be common knowledge. But what becoming common knowledge is that you are just frustrated that you can't walk into stadium of a title challenger, as a relegation battler, and walk away with a victory every time you do it.

Oh and nothing gives you the right to call anyone dumb.

I tell you what....if you can find proof that the game cheats, I am sure that SI will take a look at it. At the end of the day I doubt anyone who make a game, that they themselves, cheat.

[Azuru]

I don't mean 'cheat' as in 'cheat', I mean to have an 'advantage' in those areas where a human is required to make sensible judgements. Chess computers have an advantage over the human chess grandmasters, it can't 'think' but it can calculate millions of moves ahead of any human grandmaster. Computers need a bit of help because we have our major advantages over it, we can think

[CaptainPlanet]

I don't mean 'cheat' as in 'cheat'

Might be worth not using the word 'cheat' then.

[aderow]

I don't mean 'cheat' as in 'cheat', I mean to have an 'advantage' in those areas where a human is required to make sensible judgements. Chess computers have an advantage over the human chess grandmasters, it can't 'think' but it can calculate millions of moves ahead of any human grandmaster. Computers need a bit of help because we have our major advantages over it, we can think

Ok. Prove it then. And thats all I am going to say anymore.

[Riverplate]

Azuru, do u even know the meaning of CHEAT?? What kind of AI advantage are u talking about? Being able to purchase players for really cheap?? thats a bug, not a cheat. lots of more cards for ur team? thats a bug too. Ur strikers not scoring but opponents can? check ur tactics and again, it might be a programming error. Like I said, u are confusing bugs with cheats. Show me a screenshot or something that proves ur statement is indeed true.

By the way, play a strategy game and pick the highest difficulty. The AI will have more cash and troops. Now that is the AI cheating in order to match your needs and make the game harder.

[Azuru]

"By the way, play a strategy game and pick the highest difficulty. The AI will have more cash and troops. Now that is the AI cheating in order to match your needs and make the game harder".

Not necessarily. If you play Age Of Mythology on its highest difficulty you will notice that the computer AI barracks produces enemies faster than your barracks (and it might attack quicker etc) and it does this because it can't think.

"Ok. Prove it then. And thats all I am going to say anymore"

You make it sound like it a bad thing. I'm just saying the game does these 'little' things here and there to make it a challenge, to make it more enjoyable than any other management game out there.

[Azuru]

I have no proof of this btw. But what if the game sends off one of your players, deliberately (get what I mean here), to test your tactical ability? Is that really that bad? Maybe it does this, you don't know.

[CaptainPlanet]

Oh god, it's tin foil hat time.

[aderow]

I have no proof of this btw. But what if the game sends off one of your players, deliberately (get what I mean here), to test your tactical ability? Is that really that bad? Maybe it does this, you don't know.

...what?

The game does not conspire against anyone.

You have no proof so you no longer have a right to claim that the game does so.

[Azuru]

I've been gaming all my life, computers may be getting more powerful but the AI hasn't changed much since the very first computer was invented. Guys like Peter Molyneux often say this (if you've bought video game mags over the years)

It's not cheating, it's merely making up for your computers inability to rationalize.

"I have no proof of this btw. But what if the game sends off one of your players, deliberately (get what I mean here), to test your tactical ability? Is that really that bad? Maybe it does this, you don't know"

I was merely giving an example of how they could add these little difficulty levels here and there.

Anyway, forget about it now

[LENNYG1]

Oh god, it's tin foil hat time.

hahaha i was thinking the same thing

[Riverplate]

Azuru, u keep contradicting yourself... you have no proof yet u are sure the game does cheat? come on buddy. And throughout the years, the AI has changed dramatically... u are telling me that the 1st red alert AI is the same as the one made in 2010? lol man, u are not only naive but dumb too

[tom_numbers]

Attack after attack, shot after shot their goalkeeper saves with apparent ease they basically have no attack what so ever then 5 mins before full time my left wing passes perfectly to their striker who only has my keeper to beat and slots it past.

The ever frequent complaints of this are the reason I created this thread, so we can cut a lot of explanation.

[aderow]

I've been gaming all my life, computers may be getting more powerful but the AI hasn't changed much since the very first computer was invented. Guys like Peter Molyneux often say this (if you've bought video game mags over the years)

It's not cheating, it's merely making up for your computers inability to rationalize.

"I have no proof of this btw. But what if the game sends off one of your players, deliberately (get what I mean here), to test your tactical ability? Is that really that bad? Maybe it does this, you don't know"

I was merely giving an example of how they could add these little difficulty levels here and there.

Anyway, forget about it now

FM is a football simulator so it will never have difficulty level. It supposed to be based on real life....can you imagine what would happen if a ref decided to do that in a real match?

Artificial Intelligence has improved greatly since the first computer. If you just look at robotics you will see that this is the case.

You've said the game gives itself some sort of advantage because it is not as smart as the player. And yet you have no proof of this. I, on the other hand, have proof of the opposite and it can be found in the different team forums in the GPTG. People do well at this game.

If you want this discussion to end then fair enough.....we'll forget about it.