The 2-6-2-Rule. An Approach To Creating Tactics In FM 08.

[sitruc03]

Started using your tactic set in October 2008 with Bradford in League 1, and here are the results so far...

@ Hartlepool, 0-1... played pretty well for new tactic. Their goal came off a corner and mad scramble in the box.

Southend, 3-0... more like what I expect! only 50% possession, but 15 SOG to 1 for them.

Sheff Wed, 1-0... tough match. They controlled most of it but most of their shots were from distance.

Overall, this is a good tactic . It uses the target man well, which is something I had a tough time implementing myself. Hopefully it will be able to keep me at the top of League 1 (currently a 5 point lead), so I'll post a little update at the end of the season.

[Wardy11]

Great post, Zagallo.

I've started to implement it with my Adelaide United team in the Australian A-League. I actually enjoyed the experience of setting up the tactic myself based on your instructions - I think I've learned more from that process and understand the different settings across different positions a lot more because I've done it myself than if I'd downloaded the tactic.

When you prepare for a match, what do you do for opposition instructions, particularly marking and show onto foot?

[heathxxx]

Hi zagallo,

saw you mention that you're working on a flat 4-4-2 based variant.

Here's what I'm using at the moment.

heathxxx fiora2 4-4-2 variant

fiora2 was originally posted on the forums by chriswright1 here:

Fiora2 tactic, instant success!

Now for a number of releases of FM, I've used almost identical tactics, certainly insofar as the formation and directions of arrows is concerned. What I've been playing with is the team and individual player settings. I guess that it's just because the shape of the formation "looks realistic" to me.

Anyway, have a look at it zagallo and see what you think. I've downloaded your set, mainly to look at the team/player instructions, in comparison to my own. I'm also doing some tests with your exact team/player instructions, with the formation I'm using.

You might note that in this tactic, I'm not as extreme with the creative freedom. Took this tactic of one that I'm using with a "top" team though, so have creativity set a little higher.

[jsw123]

I'm still stuggling to score many goals but I do play 4-1-4-1 most of the time so it either becomes a 2-7-1 or 2-5-3. Defensivly it's unreal! 1 goal conc in the last 10, only 3 scored in the last 4 though. Should I try only having the strikers mentality more att and not the wide men?

[Guest]

Hi heathxxx,

thanks for the link. I did already see it in your post. I also like the realism of the shape.

I'll give it a try while I'm testing. Your team settings are pretty close to mine (execept CF of course...). The individuals are somewhat different. But anyhow, I'll try it.

I'm running my 4-4-2 test with Valencia and have a game against Real Madrid coming up. The ultimate test for tight defenses...

I'm gonna give you some feedback on how that works.

[Guest]

Originally posted by jsw123:

I'm still stuggling to score many goals but I do play 4-1-4-1 most of the time so it either becomes a 2-7-1 or 2-5-3. Defensivly it's unreal! 1 goal conc in the last 10, only 3 scored in the last 4 though. Should I try only having the strikers mentality more att and not the wide men?

Hi jsw123

Just some quick ideas:

Why not try to stick to 2-6-2? Set your striker and an offensive MC to attacking. The MC must have FwdR and RwB to often and high creative freedom. Probably that works.

What is your team mentality? Maybe you can put the slider 1 or 2 notches up?

Have you set passing to run on ball and lots of "play thru ball"? Works well with 4-1-4-1, especially when the fullbacks deliver passes to the striker from their own half...

Would it help to play with some more width?

How is that?

[Guest]

Originally posted by Wardy11:

Great post, Zagallo.

I've started to implement it with my Adelaide United team in the Australian A-League. I actually enjoyed the experience of setting up the tactic myself based on your instructions - I think I've learned more from that process and understand the different settings across different positions a lot more because I've done it myself than if I'd downloaded the tactic.

When you prepare for a match, what do you do for opposition instructions, particularly marking and show onto foot?

Good to hear that, Wardy. For me it’s the most fun part on the game to try creating a set-up that works. Unless of course, it doesn’t... The opposition instructions I use are pretty common:

Opposing wingers get closed down often and show onto weaker foot. If they are named as danger men, tight marking.

I use tight marking on the striker(s). If I play against a really good, fast and creative one also close down often.

The AMC or creative MC gets closed down often, same for DMC if danger man.

If one of the fullbacks is identified as danger man or I play vs. a backline of 5, I close down the fullbacks. At timest I found this to be very effective, when an opponent mostly builds up play from the back. Tried this against Daniel Alves once - kept him locked in his half.

And last thing: always have a look at the bench...

[Guest]

Originally posted by sitruc03:

Awesome post Zagallo! Usually I just click through these tactic posts, but I was drawn to the picture of your team's shape. I just got an awesome regen striker for my Bradford squad (20 year old... next Luca Toni!), so I've been trying somewhat unsuccessfully to convert from my old 4-2-3-1 to a 4-1-3-2 with the shape in your picture. I'm going to give your tactic a run and I'll be back soon to let you know how it goes.

Started using your tactic set in October 2008 with Bradford in League 1, and here are the results so far...

@ Hartlepool, 0-1... played pretty well for new tactic. Their goal came off a corner and mad scramble in the box.

Southend, 3-0... more like what I expect! only 50% possession, but 15 SOG to 1 for them.

Sheff Wed, 1-0... tough match. They controlled most of it but most of their shots were from distance.

Overall, this is a good tactic . It uses the target man well, which is something I had a tough time implementing myself. Hopefully it will be able to keep me at the top of League 1 (currently a 5 point lead), so I'll post a little update at the end of the season.

Thanks sitruc. Keep on going - and give us feedback if you like. Good luck.

[jsw123]

Hi jsw123

Just some quick ideas:

Why not try to stick to 2-6-2? Set your striker and an offensive MC to attacking. The MC must have FwdR and RwB to often and high creative freedom. Probably that works.

What is your team mentality? Maybe you can put the slider 1 or 2 notches up?

Have you set passing to run on ball and lots of "play thru ball"? Works well with 4-1-4-1, especially when the fullbacks deliver passes to the striker from their own half...

Would it help to play with some more width?

How is that?

Thanks Zagallo I'll try that now, my 4-3-3 tac (my most att tactic of the 4) is 1 click on att, and the wingers and st are 3 clicks down from max att. My through balls are only on mixed though and I don't have passing to run onto balls all mixed, might be the problem.

Again I know you've heard this like 345 times but what the hell great stuff.

[Guest]

lol, thanks jsw123.

My experience with wingers is, that they play better when they are not on highest attacking mentality.

In the past I often tried to build tactics with wingers set on high mentality, in 4-4-2, 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1. I believed that would make a nice attacking side coming in via the flanks. I never succeeded. But when I lowered their mentality they suddenly played a much better build-up and even scored more. Somewhat strange but true.

Try it and let me know how that worked.

[jsw123]

Oh my god! I kid you not Zagallo, I implemented your ideas of through balls, wingers not being the most att and the AMC (van der vaart) given creative freedom and the results in my first game were amazing. Chelsea beat Liverpool 5-1 at Anfield! V D Vaart scored 2 and ran the show, I'm still in shock!

[Guest]

[Flyingdutchman]

Originally posted by jsw123:

Oh my god! I kid you not Zagallo, I implemented your ideas of through balls, wingers not being the most att and the AMC (van der vaart) given creative freedom and the results in my first game were amazing. Chelsea beat Liverpool 5-1 at Anfield! V D Vaart scored 2 and ran the show, I'm still in shock!

How many shots on goal did he have?

[jsw123]

Van Der Vaart had 5 shots 3 on target, as a team we had 20 with 12 on target. Up until the tweaks we'd really struggled to score lots of goals, solid at the back though.

[Guest]

Well, that ratio is not bad at all.

Seems like it can be done with a single striker though.

[Guest]

That ratio is not bad at all.

Seems like it can be done with a single striker.

Wow.

[Guest]

Sorry for klicking twice...

[jsw123]

Drogba had 4 shots with 3 on target he scored once, I've still not lost a game since making the tweaks.

Not as many clean sheets but plenty of goals.

Before changes

2-0 N v Newcastle (Com Shield)

1-0 H v Middlesbrough

0-0 A v Aston Villa

1-0 H v Spurs

Tweaks made

5-1 A v Liverpool

2-1 N v Aston Villa (Euro Super Cup)

4-1 A v Wigan

1-0 A v Benfica (CL)

2-0 H v Portsmouth

3-1 H v Newcastle

Giving Van Der Vaart more creative freedom and higher att mentality than the other midfielders has worked to perfection so far. I'm a little concerned the AI with work this out soon and man mark him. We'll see.

[Fudger]

Would it be possible if you could post some screen shots of the tactics screen showing the layout of your formation, the team insructions and possibly an added bonus of player instructions? Would help some of us Tactic Dunses lol. As it all seems kind of confusing. Thanks.

[Guest]

Originally posted by jsw123:

Drogba had 4 shots with 3 on target he scored once, I've still not lost a game since making the tweaks.

Not as many clean sheets but plenty of goals.

Before changes

2-0 N v Newcastle (Com Shield)

1-0 H v Middlesbrough

0-0 A v Aston Villa

1-0 H v Spurs

Tweaks made

5-1 A v Liverpool

2-1 N v Aston Villa (Euro Super Cup)

4-1 A v Wigan

1-0 A v Benfica (CL)

2-0 H v Portsmouth

3-1 H v Newcastle

Giving Van Der Vaart more creative freedom and higher att mentality than the other midfielders has worked to perfection so far. I'm a little concerned the AI with work this out soon and man mark him. We'll see.

Good results, jsw123.

I guess they will not man-mark VDV until re-ranking starts... If they do, you can give him free role and put the other MC on forward runs often. VDV then draws his guard out of position and opens space for the other guy.

Are you using a DMC at the moment or 3 MCs? In case you don't use DMC, there are 2 tweaks that might tighten your defense even more:

1. Up the closing down for FBs and wingers a notch (2nd of always).

2. Set FBs to man-marking, tight-marking, normal tackling and first notch of normal creative freedom.

I am experimenting with that at the moment - works well with a flat midfield, but not with a DMC in front. So if you like, give it a try.

It may sound contradictory with the zonal marking of team defense. But in the game it somehow doesn't. As the team marking is set to zonal and the DCs are on zonal, the movements of the defense are still in line with pressure-cover-balance as I realized. The FBs just stick closer to the opposing wingers and seem to have a more aggressive approach on stopping them from running behind the defense line...

[jsw123]

Interesting stuff Zagallo, I do use a DMC with 2 mc in the centre of midfield. My CB's are on tight marking with the team playing zonal, should I avoid telling the FB's to tight/man mark?

In the last few games the defense does seem to be tighter anyway, only conceded 1 in the last 5 but our scoring has gone down again, only getting 1 or 2 in those games.

[deverb]

Great tactics so far for me. I'm playing as Udinese and defensively it's by far the best formation I've used. I'm having some trouble scoring though. I've had three 0-0 ties in my last 6 games. It's possible it's just my strikers playing poorly. I set their creative freedom down and noticed an improvement. I may try setting forward runs on often for the strikers as they are very fast(acceleration rating of 19 & 20) and see if it makes a difference.

But again, very impressed with it. Good work

[Guest]

Thanks deverb. Glad it works defensively at least. But three ties is not that good. Try to set one striker (target man if you use one) on cross from deep, so that he drops down a little. FwdR on often might help, but the risk of straying offside is quite big. Do they have RwB on often? They should if they are fast... Good luck though.

[Guest]

Originally posted by jsw123:

Interesting stuff Zagallo, I do use a DMC with 2 mc in the centre of midfield. My CB's are on tight marking with the team playing zonal, should I avoid telling the FB's to tight/man mark?

In the last few games the defense does seem to be tighter anyway, only conceded 1 in the last 5 but our scoring has gone down again, only getting 1 or 2 in those games.

Hi jw123.

If your defense is tight, stick to it. I don't want you to change a set-up that works. Otherwise you might try.

I did also try putting the DCs on man-marking an keep the FBs zonal. The effect was not as good as the other way round. I actually don't use tight marking for the DCs. I'm afraid they get drawn out of position too easily. But for the FBs it always works well.

If you are playing the 4-3-3 like I assume you do, the weakest point usually are the flanks as the distance between FB and winger is pretty far. So if opposing wingers counter and try to get behind the def line, it might help at some point...

[jsw123]

I'm going to change the DCs to no tight martking and put the FBs on tight marking for a bit as a couple of goals I conceded recently looked like the CB was coming to far up the pitch and not tracking back.

VDV is still the man but I was wondering what is re-ranking?

[Guest]

Yip, try it. It might help.

Re-Ranking stands for the perception of you teams' quality. Meaning, that after every half season and season, teams are evaluated differently by the AI. This becomes evident in the pre-match odds. If you are a mid-table team, the odds will sometimes be against you sometimes for you. But if you manage to play better than expected and end half season on top of the league, your evaluation will be differently. For example: before, the AI might have expected you to draw against weaker teams. But then the AI expects you to win against them and changes the odds to your favour.

Difficult thing about it is, that the opponents then will also play differently against you. Before they thought you are a mid-table team and played their "normal" tactic. Then, they suppose you are much better - and play a more defensive tactic, which makes it much harder to crack and win. Hope that covers it roughly.

There are quite some threats about re-ranking in the forum. Just use the search function r take a look at the threat from Millie in the tactics bible.

[Spagbol]

I play a similar 3-6-1 formation of recent. which I've found to be the best I've created so far on FM08.

The wing backs are both primed to sit still, but to close down and pressure opposing players, I've found by moving them forward from DL and DR they are move involved creatively and less likely to make mistakes by playing longer passes. Their passing is set to short and their mentality to the teams.

The CD's are all primed to close down quickly, zonal defending and in some games the central of the three can be pushed forward to also play as a DM or drop back into a sweeper role. The later is usefull if the opponents are playing over the top fast breaking counter attack football, as he will be set to spring the offside trap. This is useless if you don't have an alert player to fill the role though.

The DM is to provide additional support to the WBs and CDs. He is also the anchor to the teams passing movement, although the entire team is set to short passing he's set to mixed, thus is he spots a man free he can dink it over.

The two AMs play slightly wide, this is to drag space open for the pacey striket to pop into, in addition to this they're both set to make forward runs and to a more attacking mentality. The idea is that should the striker fail, there will be two players following up into the box.

[Spagbol]

And here's what the 'Wall of Meat' looks like

[Spagbol]

...Yeaaaaah, I should probably add that when I say 'similar' I mean in terms of playing, not formation

Obviously the formations are different, but players are given similar roles.

[Law_Man]

Originally posted by Spagbol:

I play a similar 3-6-1 formation of recent. which I've found to be the best I've created so far on FM08.

The wing backs are both primed to sit still, but to close down and pressure opposing players, I've found by moving them forward from DL and DR they are move involved creatively and less likely to make mistakes by playing longer passes. Their passing is set to short and their mentality to the teams.

The CD's are all primed to close down quickly, zonal defending and in some games the central of the three can be pushed forward to also play as a DM or drop back into a sweeper role. The later is usefull if the opponents are playing over the top fast breaking counter attack football, as he will be set to spring the offside trap. This is useless if you don't have an alert player to fill the role though.

The DM is to provide additional support to the WBs and CDs. He is also the anchor to the teams passing movement, although the entire team is set to short passing he's set to mixed, thus is he spots a man free he can dink it over.

The two AMs play slightly wide, this is to drag space open for the pacey striket to pop into, in addition to this they're both set to make forward runs and to a more attacking mentality. The idea is that should the striker fail, there will be two players following up into the box.

Why don't you start a new thread and explain your tactic fully and make it available for download?

[jsw123]

Originally posted by zagallo:

Yip, try it. It might help.

Re-Ranking stands for the perception of you teams' quality. Meaning, that after every half season and season, teams are evaluated differently by the AI. This becomes evident in the pre-match odds. If you are a mid-table team, the odds will sometimes be against you sometimes for you. But if you manage to play better than expected and end half season on top of the league, your evaluation will be differently. For example: before, the AI might have expected you to draw against weaker teams. But then the AI expects you to win against them and changes the odds to your favor.

Difficult thing about it is, that the opponents then will also play differently against you. Before they thought you are a mid-table team and played their "normal" tactic. Then, they suppose you are much better - and play a more defensive tactic, which makes it much harder to crack and win. Hope that covers it roughly.

There are quite some threats about re-ranking in the forum. Just use the search function r take a look at the threat from Millie in the tactics bible.

Can't seem to get your quote in a box but hey!

Thanks for that I guess now I'm playing as Chelsea it's less of an issue, I've always been LLM before.

I've never played my DCs on high closing down, usually close to never. My theory is a skillful player could beat them easier if they are closing down often, if they are holding position they are forced to shoot from distance. A lot of people don't seem to agree with this theory, I'd bee interested to hear your thoughts?

[jsw123]

ok so it worked that time!

[Guest]

jsw123, I used to play high closing down for DCs in older version of FM. But since FM20006 and even more since FM2007 it doesn't work anymore for me. They start running at the attacker instead of holding their position between the ball and the goal. So as you say, when the attacker is faster and technically better (what he is in many cases), he just overruns them and only the goalie is left to beat... If that happens in 4-4-2 it is too late for anything.

But if the DCs keep their position, the attacker has to act and try to get past two men. Or try a long shot. Or pass to the wing to try to find a player who can run behind the defensive line, while the attacker gets into the penalty area. This movement sideways of the attack is the basic aim of low closing-down (and good defenses). Because you win time and space. Time, for all defenders to find their positions. Space, as with the right positioning the attacker(s) in the center have no possibility to reach the ball.

But anyway, if you want to push the DCs up to put more pressure on the attackers it mainly works via setting the defensive line high(er). But even then, the closing-down should not be high. (Only exception might be Arsenal if trying to adapt their real life style, as Gallas and Toure are really quick and have high anticipation, concentration, positioning and teamwork - but that's quite difficult to set up...)

[jsw123]

Agreed, I did up the closing down from 2 to 5 for my DCs in the last game and watched the match in full. We won 3-1 away to Reading in the league cup and in general looked in control for the whole game.

I did put my FBs closing down back to 5 too as they seemed a little too eager when I had them high. I really liked your tip on the wingers having high closing down too this is something I'm going to keep doing. As you said in a previous quote the gap between the wingers and FBs was a little too big at times and my FBs we're getting isolated.

It's only been one game so it might need a little more tweaking.

[Spagbol]

Originally posted by Law_Man:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spagbol:

I play a similar 3-6-1 formation of recent. which I've found to be the best I've created so far on FM08.

The wing backs are both primed to sit still, but to close down and pressure opposing players, I've found by moving them forward from DL and DR they are move involved creatively and less likely to make mistakes by playing longer passes. Their passing is set to short and their mentality to the teams.

The CD's are all primed to close down quickly, zonal defending and in some games the central of the three can be pushed forward to also play as a DM or drop back into a sweeper role. The later is usefull if the opponents are playing over the top fast breaking counter attack football, as he will be set to spring the offside trap. This is useless if you don't have an alert player to fill the role though.

The DM is to provide additional support to the WBs and CDs. He is also the anchor to the teams passing movement, although the entire team is set to short passing he's set to mixed, thus is he spots a man free he can dink it over.

The two AMs play slightly wide, this is to drag space open for the pacey striket to pop into, in addition to this they're both set to make forward runs and to a more attacking mentality. The idea is that should the striker fail, there will be two players following up into the box.

Why don't you start a new thread and explain your tactic fully and make it available for download? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a bad idea actually, I was just comparing as other people have done on the thread, but starting a thread and putting it up for download's a good idea!

I haven't done a public tactic for FM08 yet...

[Law_Man]

Go for it If it works for you then its at least got a chance of working for others, and along as you don't claim its the best tactic ever etc then you'll get plenty of positive comments and the mods will stop the odd person who wants to be an idiot.

So start a new thread, upload a picture of the formation, and then just describe the aim of the tactic and how it works in your, and the players need for the different position

[Giantplaything]

First off may I just say well done.

Its a thing of beauty to see a well formed, well explained approach to tactic making and I enjoyed the read. Will definatly be giving this a try.

I just wanted to say that a friend of mine plays a cross between 4-4-2 flat and diamond and has good success(with 07 and 08). He uses an attacking minded MC and a more defensive partner. The creative one runs into the AMC spot whilst the other retreats to cover the defence(I hope the diagram makes sense)

O O

^ <-\ ^

| | |

O O O O

|

\->

O O O O

O

It seams to work better than a flat 4-4-2 but you can still use 2 MCs with the right abilities...which was nice. thought it might help with the 4-4-2 testing.

KUTGreatW Zagallo

[Giantplaything]

...O..O...

..........

^...<-\..^

|.....|..|

O..O..O..O

...|......

...\->....

..........

O..O..O..O

....O.....

thats better sorry

[Guest]

Thanks Giantplaything. I've already had that formation in mind. I'll try both and check what works better.

Good luck when trying the framework.

[Guest]

Originally posted by jsw123:

Agreed, I did up the closing down from 2 to 5 for my DCs in the last game and watched the match in full. We won 3-1 away to Reading in the league cup and in general looked in control for the whole game.

I did put my FBs closing down back to 5 too as they seemed a little too eager when I had them high. I really liked your tip on the wingers having high closing down too this is something I'm going to keep doing. As you said in a previous quote the gap between the wingers and FBs was a little too big at times and my FBs we're getting isolated.

It's only been one game so it might need a little more tweaking.

I actually change it the way rashidi1 describes it on the first page of this threat. The more attacking I play, the higher the closing-down - but always in own half. After lots of testing I found that works really well.

[Mat_K]

I tick the target man box and play to feet or mixed (as I do not have a striker outstanding in heading).

Do you actually list your strikers as target men as well?

If so do you find either of them scores more than the other?

[Guest]

Yes, I do tick the target man box.

And in my game the fast striker scores more. But actually he has more quality than my target man at the moment...

[yugular]

Hi Zagallo

I have now been playing my next game for a while and I adopted this tactical approach again. It has really worked.

One negative side is that I still can't get the defensive tactic work. (Not that I need it though) If I switch to defensive oppnents outrun my players in the whole pitch and usually get around 20-30 shots on goal... I even downloaded your tactics and tried your defensive tactic but it didn't work either.

I also tried your training. It has been going now 3-4 months and it seems that my players dont get any progress in any attributes (as before with any other schedules) BUT they are not declining (like with other schedules) so thanks! btw. I am still ****ed off that I cant get training work even though I have top quality facilities and coaches...

Well anyways thanks again for bringing up this beautiful approach to the game. It actually makes the game/matchengine more realistic as it results a wide variety of situations on the field.

Right now I am enjoying my game but if someone has made experiments in LLM with this approach I would be grateful to hear from it!

[Mat_K]

Originally posted by zagallo:

Yes, I do tick the target man box.

And in my game the fast striker scores more. But actually he has more quality than my target man at the moment...

Sorry, we are at crossed wires here.

What I was asking was do you put your strikers in the list of target men (as you would do for penalty takers)?

If so which one do you list first?

I've got two very capable forwards, one is an outright striker, the other an AMC/FC. I'm thinking of setting the AMC/FC as the primary target man and have the ball played to feet which should hopefully result in more goals for the other forward.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Excellent post! Tried this with my Leeds team, awesome at home but away kept losing narrowly away then got stuffed by Forest (long balls over the top to Tyson x 3,..hatrick!!!). Could have dropped DL but that broke the rules of 262 so decided to just take it on the chin.

It was the usual "FM08 seems to have it in for me" feeling. So I tried mixing it with by own asEZas442 tactics - Awesome again for a few games then another drubbing I could not turn arround. Now I believe your theory is as good as it gets but I really do feel 08 has vaguaries that will always scupper my best efforts, however will try again soon. For now am going to try it on FM05 - a long shot but who knows? (FM05 was the FM which was most forgiving I found).

I confess I want to create my own tactic from scratch but just feel bewildered so end up copying others ideas & adapting, but this leads to confusion & I lose interest. I will be taking on board all your thoughts though as they seem to be on the mark. Also with creating my own I have the following problems:

A/ Testing in friendlies: Friendlies seem unrepresentative, all findings seem to fail in the competitive games.

B/ Rushing the friendlies (use for match fitness only) & testing tactics in 1st few league games: With this you can start badly and when it turns around the board are on your case - not a good start. Dont think there is an easy answer to that issue though.

[Guest]

@yugular

Hi yugular. Thanks for the feedback. I haven’t used the defensive set-up very often. But while testing the 4-4-2 I sometimes tried it. And you are right. Few times it works, otherwise the defense gets overrun. So conclusion must be: reducing only team mentality is not sufficient for stopping opponents. There need to be more team and individual tweaks. I’ll try to incorporate that for the next results. Thanks again!

With the training you are right, it builds up slowly. I had the problem with other trainigs, that after pre-season, all the fitness levels dropped heavily. That’s why I kept them higher in the regular training, which on the other hand limits the technical training as I did’t want to get into heavy workload... Might need to try a different set-up...

@Mat_K

Sorry for misundertanding. Yes, I do list them. I prefer setting the right striker in the tactic as target man. Or better, the one that is better in the penalty are and for setting up goals or has better heading stats. So yes, it might be the AMC/FC.

@tigerhgrrrrr

Thanks and good luck for FM05. That really is a long shot... To your points: I see it the same way. The better the team, the less representative the friendlies are. Especially, when the training level is not at 100% then. When starting to play FM08 I had the problem that I did win the friendlies in a blaze of glory. But as soon as the league started, the others ripped me apart. That finally led me to restarting the game after having played some league games and having a tactic set-up that worked. It’s kind of an effort though to go through the first month(s) again... And lacks a bit of realism, I know...

What I now do is try to fix the formation with the start of the friendlies and build my favoured set-up. Then the tweaking starts with every game, as I watch them in full length. I find that tweaking the tactics is much easier for the team, than changing the formation all the time. I look at stats and if the formation plays the way I want them to, but don’t care about goals or winning. So yes, the friendlies are important to play for me.

Hopefully I then have a basic set-up for the start of the league. If it doesn’t work after 4 or 5 league games then, I mostly run out of patience anyway and quit the game to think it over...

[Mat_K]

Originally posted by zagallo:

@Mat_K

Sorry for misundertanding. Yes, I do list them. I prefer setting the right striker in the tactic as target man. Or better, the one that is better in the penalty are and for setting up goals or has better heading stats. So yes, it might be the AMC/FC.

I'll experiment and let you know how it goes.

I have to confess I did drop the AMC into the MC position with a forward arrow to AMC, simply because I signed a young Spanish MC for close to £10M at the start of the previous season and have great expectations of him.

The theory has been working well, and has even made a couple of stunning comebacks, the highlight was a recovery from 3-0 down at Arsenal to grab a draw. I have had a couple of blips, one 6-1 defeat against Sunderland, but that looked like it was just "one of those games". The other was a heavy beating by Villareal. I suspect both were down to mis-tweaking of the mentality/D-line.

[Karus]

First I'd like to say what a post. I've lately been struggling to play the FM series as playing the game didn't feel so much like being a football manager, rather like I was trying to figure out how to cheat or coax the players and game engine into doing what I wanted but after reading your thread its given me a very refreshing view of FM 2008. Playing the game actually feels like it has some relation to real life tactics and has increased my enjoyment of the game a lot. Thanks alot from saving me from trading in FM 2008 in some stupid rage.

[sitruc03]

Originally posted by sitruc03:

Started using your tactic set in October 2008 with Bradford in League 1, and here are the results so far...

@ Hartlepool, 0-1... played pretty well for new tactic. Their goal came off a corner and mad scramble in the box.

Southend, 3-0... more like what I expect! only 50% possession, but 15 SOG to 1 for them.

Sheff Wed, 1-0... tough match. They controlled most of it but most of their shots were from distance.

Overall, this is a good tactic . It uses the target man well, which is something I had a tough time implementing myself. Hopefully it will be able to keep me at the top of League 1 (currently a 5 point lead), so I'll post a little update at the end of the season.

The good results are continuing, and I am playing some amazing attacking football, thanks to my TM's 16 passing rating. The only thing I noticed is a little inconsistency at the end of the match, when the AI goes to that 4-2-4 formation. I tried both the Away and Counter tactics against this, but still gave up a lot of shots (luckily didn't lose any points). The last few matches I've used the Counter tactic, but set FBs to 'rarely' on forward runs and run with ball, and that has patched it up nicely, allowing good defense at the back but keeping the forward players on an attacking mindset to steal some late goals and add to my goal difference.

[JoeThorogood]

Hi Zagallo,

I like you tactic and have played my first season with Derby County.

I thought I would give you and others feedback on the tactics.

I just would like to add that derby have a pretty s**t squad and I was predicted to come 19th. I only bought in one player and that was Eddie Johnson. I also bought in claudio maldonado because bob malcolm is pretty awful.

Anyway onto the results

I finished 5th with 62 points, I scored the most goals with 79 for but defensively i was pretty bad, i had 54 against.

The football i was playing was attack/counter at home and counter/away away depending on who i was playing. I had the 2nd best home but away i came 15th

games:

Liverpool 2-0 Derby

Derby 4-0 Fulham

Chelsea 3-1 Derby

Wigan 1-0 Derby

Bolton 2-2 Derby

Derby 3-2 Arsenal

Tottenham 4-0 Derby

Derby 1-0 Man Utd

Man City 2-1 Derby

Derby 4-1 Birmingham

Aston Villa 2-4 Derby

Bolton 2-1 Derby

Derby 1-0 Middlesborough

Reading 3-0 Derby

Derby 4-3 Newcastle

West Ham 0-2 Derby

Derby 1-0 Portsmouth

Blackburn 0-1 Derby

Derby 3-0 Sunderland

Derby 2-0 Everton

Derby 3-0 Liverpool

Fulham 2-0 Derby

Derby 3-4 Chelsea

Wigan 2-1 Derby

Derby 3-0 Tottenham

Arsenal 3-2 Derby

Man Utd 2-1 Derby

Derby 0-1 Bolton

Derby 0-1 Man City

Birmingham 1-7 Derby

Derby 3-3 Aston Villa

Middlesborough 0-3 Derby

Derby 4-1 Reading

Newcastle 3-2 Derby

Derby 4-1 West Ham

Portsmouth 1-0 Derby