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Is the Tranfer system abit of Joke in FM 2010?


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Just a general question if a player is worth £8 million what would your general opening bid be? Seems like a few people run straight in with a £15 million bid, I always bid their value and then work up until the selling club negotiates the offer. I have found this the best FM for negotiating although maybe that just means the others were poor and not necessarily that this one is good. I have signed two player recently who were quote at high prices.

Aaron Ramsey is valued at £7.5 million so I bid the following.

£8 million rejected

£10 million rejected

£12 million - they want £46 million

£20 million - they want £38 million

£25 million - they want £33 million

£30 million - they accept

I find most negotiations once they start to negotiate the AI will lower their asking price by roughly the same amount you increase your bid by, it is then up to us to decide if the transfer is worth going through with or not. I admit some asking prices are ridiculously high but I also ask for silly amounts for players worth under £10 million when I do not want to sell them. Could it be better? of course it could but if bids were rejected out right then there would be just as many of these threads popping up about how so and so is unbuyable and why does't the AI negotiate even at a huge price.

The one thing that does annoy me is the AI do not negotiate very often or at least not in my experience. I have a GK with a bit of potential he has played half the games in rotation with my real first choice keeper, Real Madrid declare an interest in him then enquire he is worth £3.8 million so I tell them I want £15 million and they withdraw. The player gets unhappy so I offer him out for £10 million Real Madrid bid £8.5 million and I accept. SO why didn't they try to negotiate with me in the first place?

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Just a general question if a player is worth £8 million what would your general opening bid be?

Depends on the price but I use my scouts, if they say a price, I'll start somewhat under that until they start to negotiate. For exmaple, if my scout said I could get him for 8-10m I'd maybe start around 6m and keep going up until they negotiate. Doing this, I usually get the player for the price my scout said.

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True, but there's also probably only a dozen players that would receive bids of £50m in the first place.

True, but that's because you wouldn't need to offer £50m for the player to get thier current club interested, unless they are one of those dozen players.

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care to explain how that random sentence relates to my example ?

"The car is broke" "don't drive it"="I bought a rubbish player" "don't play him"

"The car is too expensive" "don't buy it"= "the player is too expensive" "don't buy him".

I don't think it's a complicated concept. Just substitute "player" for "car".

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Here's what I'd like to happen:

A highly rated youngster is valued at £5m. He plays for a mid table club. A big club wants to buy him.,

Big clubs makes an enquiry. Small club realises they have a valuable asset who could either get them a lot of money from his sale, or earn them prestige and extra money by playing for them. They see how serious the big club is by telling them they do not want to sell him.

Big club comes back with an offer of £5m, his value. They actually want this player and realise he is valuable, he is worth something to them. Small club realise the big club is serious and they will be able to get a fair amount for him. They ask for £12m.

Big club doesn't think £12m is good value. They bid £7m. Small club either comes down a bit, to maybe £9m, or stands firm. Let's say they stand firm.

Big club make their intentions to sign the player public. He gets unsettled. Big club bid £7.5m. Small club ask for £9m. Big club withdraw, and player hands in a transfer request. Big club bid £7.75m, and small club admit that they have to go with it.

Current system: Big club makes enquiry, small club ask for £40m, big club bids value, small club ask for £46m.

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I think the sheer amount of threads about the state of the transfer market clearly means there is a problem with it but like others have said it is a fine line between making it too easy to sign players and how it is now where the prices clubs ask is sometimes plain stupid.

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transfer system sucks, it MUST be revised...

How in your opinion does it suck? Personally I find it works reasonably well, you can get good players cheap if you're willing to work (e.g. lots of scouting, sucking up to managers and players), take a chance every so often (e.g. buy a 15y.o. Brazilian with promise and wait the 3 years), while also making it not too easy to buy the best players in the world. I will be willing to listen to arguements, but simply saying something sucks is not an arguement. Neither is citing only top players at high level, financially viable clubs either.

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How in your opinion does it suck? Personally I find it works reasonably well, you can get good players cheap if you're willing to work (e.g. lots of scouting, sucking up to managers and players), take a chance every so often (e.g. buy a 15y.o. Brazilian with promise and wait the 3 years), while also making it not too easy to buy the best players in the world. I will be willing to listen to arguements, but simply saying something sucks is not an arguement. Neither is citing only top players at high level, financially viable clubs either.

I don't know why does he think it sucks but if you wanna listen to arguments just read the thread from the beginning. There's plenty.

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I don't know why does he think it sucks but if you wanna listen to arguments just read the thread from the beginning. There's plenty.

Most of which are the second thing I don't accept. For me they're not examples of a broken system, but examples of a computer programme trying to replicate real life in a consistent and logical way i.e. "we don't really want to sell our best player, but, if you want to be stupid, how about giving us £80m." And do you know why I think this is logical? I do it myself, and consider my actions to be logical.

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What a bunch of whining little tosspots you are. Seriously.

Sometimes you simply can't buy every player that you want.

The arguments about what an editor says you'll have to spend are interesting, but because I'm a cynical sort, I wonder how many people stomp around like a toddler and then use said editor to give their club as much money as they need to buy the player and then smugly congratulate themselves on how clever they are. Grow up, suck it up and use your scouts to find you someone cheaper.

The academic argument of "well, the game shouldn't set their values so high" is pointless because since - as dafuge has said so many times - only an idiot would be in a position to pay that much anyway. Care to admit to being an idiot?

For a personal anecdote, in my current 37-season game, I have frequently used the tactic of setting ridiculous asking prices for my best players as a way of warding other teams off. Having said that, when players are keen to move and there's not much time left on their contract (and little chance of them signing a new contract), that is the time I will start accepting reasonably large offers. Also, if I'm setting an asking price of £10m for a player 'valued' at £1.2m, you can be sure I'll accept anything above £7.5m.

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Most of which are the second thing I don't accept. For me they're not examples of a broken system, but examples of a computer programme trying to replicate real life in a consistent and logical way i.e. "we don't really want to sell our best player, but, if you want to be stupid, how about giving us £80m." And do you know why I think this is logical? I do it myself, and consider my actions to be logical.

Sure, and I understand that. But you're probably managing a rich team. let's say that you want to buy a player from an average middle table team. Of course they're gonna ask much more for the player then what he's worth but is it "normal" that they're gonna ask for, let's say, 80 million for him? 80 million which is the price ronaldo got sold. for ...?

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Why do people expect players to be available for a reasonable price? If all players were available for their market value, they'd all move clubs in every single transfer window - that's basic economics.

Nobody said anything about reasonable. There's a huge gap between reasonable and 8 times the value of the player :)

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Nobody said anything about reasonable. There's a huge gap between reasonable and 8 times the value of the player :)

But why would expect some players to be available for lower than that? Some clubs will just not want to let a player go and thats their way of scaring you off. There are other tactics to signing these players rather than just bidding what their team asks for.

Try unsettling the player or waiting for his contract to near an end. I think many people just look at a player and want them straight away and then complain that the fee is ridiculous.

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But why would expect some players to be available for lower than that? .

Why would I expect clubs to ask less then 8 times the value of player?? honestly? because not every club in the world is freaking rich. I'm not talking about barcelona or man utd or inter or real madrid.

I'm talking average teams like, let's say, sevilla or racing or ipswitch or chievo asking 80 mil for a player. You know? teams that actually need money.

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Why would I expect clubs to ask less then 8 times the value of player?? honestly? because not every club in the world is freaking rich. I'm not talking about barcelona or man utd or inter or real madrid.

I'm talking average teams like, let's say, sevilla or racing or ipswitch or chievo asking 80 mil for a player.

but thats the same as them saying 'get lost, we're not selling'. It doesn't mean you can't get them for less than that.

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but thats the same as them saying 'get lost, we're not selling'. It doesn't mean you can't get them for less than that.

Not exactly. there's this player in my game who's worth 6mil and the club would only sell for 75mil (even though they asked for much more several times) And I wanted to make sure so I started with low bids which were rejected and I gradually climbed my way till 75 mill which was what the only price they would sell the player for. And I can guarantee you that he's no messi or ronaldo. And btw the club was sevilla..

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Why would I expect clubs to ask less then 8 times the value of player?? honestly? because not every club in the world is freaking rich. I'm not talking about barcelona or man utd or inter or real madrid.

I'm talking average teams like, let's say, sevilla or racing or ipswitch or chievo asking 80 mil for a player.

Been trying to stay out of this as it's become pointless... But I have to say. Does it honestly matter to you if they set these huge asking prices for top or average clubs?

As you are saying, 8 times the value is 8 times the value. Doesn't matter how much a club has in the bank. If 8 times the value is fair for a world class club then it's not unfair to a small club. Since when does having a smaller wallet entitle anyone to get something cheap?

But even if you say its unfair for all, then it's still just the AI's way of saying, "We don't want to sell him, get lost."

Again, just like you paying the 30M for the wonderkid goalie. How are you outraged by it but still willing to pay it?

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Not exactly. there's this player in my game who's worth 6mil and the club would only sell for 75mil (even though they asked for much more several times) And I wanted to make sure so I started with low bids which were rejected and I gradually climbed my way till 75 mill which was what the only price they would sell the player for. And I can guarantee you that he's no messi or ronaldo. And btw the club was sevilla..

yes what i was trying to get at was they're so unwilling to let the player go that you have to bid a ridiculous amount that anyone irl would be out of their mind to bid. So basically they're desperate to keep them.

Besides if the player is only valued at 6m i'm sure there are other players of a similar quality that are more affordable.

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Again, just like you paying the 30M for the wonderkid goalie. How are you outraged by it but still willing to pay it?

I love this argument. It's like, yes it is broke but it's the user's fault. sight.

I'm willing to pay it because I want the player and I have tons of money. Does not freaking mean that I can't see that there's something wrong with the transfer system.

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I love this argument. It's like, yes it is broke but it's the user's fault. sight.

I'm willing to pay it because I want the player and I have tons of money. Does not freaking mean that I can't see that there's something wrong with the transfer system.

Doesn't mean the transfer system is broken though does it? If you have a lot of money and you're chasing a highly rated youngster then his club will want a lot. Look at Di Maria irl, he went to real madrid for something like €40m because Benfica knew they had that sort of money. He's not a top player but youngster showing a lot of potential so it seems a bit ridiculous to spend that much but it happens.

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Doesn't mean the transfer system is broken though does it? If you have a lot of money and you're chasing a highly rated youngster then his club will want a lot. Look at Di Maria irl, he went to real madrid for something like €40m because Benfica knew they had that sort of money. He's not a top player but youngster showing a lot of potential so it seems a bit ridiculous to spend that much but it happens.

€25 million plus €11 million on incentives . But anyway I'm talking about fees like 60 and 80 and even higher...

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How can you complain about a player being overpriced if you're willing to pay that price? If you think he's still worth it then he's not really overpriced, is he?

for the 1000 time, just because I have tons of money and therefor can spend it in whatever way I want does not mean I don't think the player is overpriced. Don't you get that?

If I have shitloads of money it would be stupid to deprive myself from having a player I want just cuz he's completely and utterly overpriced. But regardless of me buying him or not, he's still overpriced. The sun is still hot regardless of whether you touch it or not...

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But i was referring to the instance where you paid 30m for a youngster so you can't complain thats unrealistic if real madrid have done it irl.

I don't think it's quite the same situation since the gk had just spawned and di maria has been playing for benfica for how many seasons? He has clearly showed potential for quite some time but fair enough.

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I don't think it's quite the same situation since the gk had just spawned and di maria has been playing for benfica for how many seasons? He has clearly showed potential for quite some time but fair enough.

But it is the same thing if his club rates him highly and they know you have cash to burn, so therefore the player may be overpriced but its not unrealistic.

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My problem is that the computer whimps out of a deal for your own good players even if you've set a fair but higher then value proposal, I never be ridiculous like the AI I'm alot more fair but they cower out of the deal just as quick

For me this is the only thing that needs improving in the transfer market, i agree that its difficult to sell good players for a high amount. I have managed to do it but sometimes the Ai makes an offer for a top player and i'd sell them if they forked over a good price but they rarely do.

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I love this argument. It's like, yes it is broke but it's the user's fault. sight.

I'm willing to pay it because I want the player and I have tons of money. Does not freaking mean that I can't see that there's something wrong with the transfer system.

You are so blind... if you are willing to pay it, for whatever reason, then you are willing to pay it period. Something you accept you can't claim is unacceptable.

The AI wanted to keep the player but if someone was willing to be an overly high price they could use the money. It's managerial strategy, either way that club comes out on top of the deal. You can just as easily go out onto the market and find a player that could benefit your team and will cost you less then the listed value. So why is it so hard to accept some are over the listed value, even extremely so?

Just because it's a drastically high markup doesn't mean it's broken, just means there is actual depth to the system.

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For me this is the only thing that needs improving in the transfer market, i agree that its difficult to sell good players for a high amount. I have managed to do it but sometimes the Ai makes an offer for a top player and i'd sell them if they forked over a good price but they rarely do.

I've sold two players off my MLS club for over 1M so far, both over their listed value. While 1M isn't the huge amounts we are talking about with the bigger name players, the MLS and it's players are much lower level, so that seems like a pretty good number to me.

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I've sold two players off my MLS club for over 1M so far, both over their listed value. While 1M isn't the huge amounts we are talking about with the bigger name players, the MLS and it's players are much lower level, so that seems like a pretty good number to me.

yeah its not a major flaw but with top players it can be quite dificult to get up around 45-50m. Or at least i've found it tricky, maybe i'm doing something wrong but if another club becomes interested in my player who is valued at 25-30m i'd expect them to be paying 40m+.

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Fact: Depending on the source, there have been 11-15 transfers in football history that were over £30m. I'm guessing the varying accounts are because of incentives, and inflation.

Fact: All but two of the transfers over £25m have involved a Spanish, English or Italian team on both ends of the deal. The exceptions are Mario Gomez and Karim Benzema.

Fact: Buffon is the only GK to be sold for over £25m.

Fact: Rio Ferdinand and Dani Alves are the only defenders to be sold for over £25m.

How many times have you had a transfer over £30m? How many times have you had to pay £25m+ for a wonderkid from a small club?

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For those of you arguing that these so called astronomical fees are involved only when a human player is involved in the deal. Here's a screen shot of the world's leading transfers from my current career:

leadingtransfers.png

I've put a red box around the only transfer that I was involved in buying a player, the rest are between AI controlled teams. You can see some ridiculous fees being paid, but all these were for top class players that were indispensable to their clubs. In my own case, I paid a very large fee as well, but that's because I simply paid Fazio's release clause. Plus Sevilla wanted over 50 million for him, which is understandable considering how important he was to them, plus he was on a long term contract, and quite happy at the club. I was also a bit desperate to land a top center back, so I bit the bullet and forked out the 40 mil.

This is the only crazy purchase I've done in 14 seasons. My second largest was 26.5 mil, which was the actual value of a player (world class striker), nothing extra. He wanted to leave the club and so I was offered him for his actual value. My next highest transfer was 19 mil, which was for a 19 y/o wonderkid DMC. His club was willing to let him go, but not easily. No problem paying that much money. To be honest, it was quite reasonable since I got a future world class player that went straight into my starting eleven and so far has played 9 seasons for me.

These are my top 3 transfers in 14 seasons. The next 4 transfers are between 10 and 13 million, and after that it really drops off. I honestly have no idea how some of you are getting on the ends of these 60, 70, 80 million deals. It's quite obvious that whatever club is quoting these kind of prices, simply doesn't want to sell their player. If by some chance they do sell them, then it's going to be for some extraordinary amount, and that is what you end up paying. If you're letting clubs hold you hostage like that, then in all honesty, it's your fault for going along with it.

Also, just because your club is in a certain financial situation (rich or poor), doesn't not translate into any sort of preferential treatment by other clubs. If anything, a club will ask more money from you, if they know you are rich. Also, don't expect anyone to start reducing their prices suddenly because you have little money. You are just being naive if you think that.

The other thing, use the tools given to you when buying players. Don't just start firing off offers. Scout the player. Many times your scout will reveal the approximate range within which you'll be able to buy a player. You'll be surprised at some of the offers that clubs would be willing to accept. If the scout doesn't reveal a price to you, then the club most likely is not will to sell that player, or if it does, it will be for some insane amount.

Interact with the player you want to buy, try to get yourself on their favorite list, and perhaps even unsettle them. Also interact with the manager of the club from which you want to buy. Becoming friends with that manager will also enable you to pay less for a player. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does enough times to make it a worthwhile action. The other thing is if you are the only club interested in a player, make a bid and make it non-negotiable. Essentially saying to the other club, this is what I think the player is worth, take it or leave it. If there are no other interested parties, then you have a good chance of having your bid accepted.

Regarding selling players. The one sale you can see from the screen shot is a striker I sold for 43 million who was actually valued at 36 million at the time, so I didn't make much extra. However, there was only one buyer interested in him, plus the player was very adamant about wanting a new challenge. This player cost me only 2.3 million when I initially bought him though.

In some of my other sales, I was able to make double the actual value of a player, but that's when many clubs were interested.

Overall, the system is not absolutely perfect. I will certainly agree on that. However, it is logical for the most part. Also, the system has been becoming more complex with every FM version, and it will only continue to do so in the future. Selling and buying players is not as easy and straightforward as some think.

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Fact: Depending on the source, there have been 11-15 transfers in football history that were over £30m. I'm guessing the varying accounts are because of incentives, and inflation.

Fact: All but two of the transfers over £25m have involved a Spanish, English or Italian team on both ends of the deal. The exceptions are Mario Gomez and Karim Benzema.

Fact: Buffon is the only GK to be sold for over £25m.

Fact: Rio Ferdinand and Dani Alves are the only defenders to be sold for over £25m.

How many times have you had a transfer over £30m? How many times have you had to pay £25m+ for a wonderkid from a small club?

Thats not the point at all though, teams put massive prices on players because they don't want to sell them unless you make a crazy offer. Irl most teams would stop trying if a mssive price tag was slapped on a player but in fm people seemed to sign a certain player regardless of the fee. Its probably alos one of the reasons a human manager is much more capable of building a side of world beaters than an AI manager because the AI managers will be scared away from the massive prices just like real life.

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leading.jpg

I consider my game to be reasonably realistic in terms of huge transfers, I highlighted the ones I was involved in like DirtyACE did. Fabregas is a huge transfer but between now and 2029 I think there will be at least one player transferred in real life for something close to that amount. I signed him, Rooney and the rest in a 2 year spell as Real Madrid manager. Anything under those transfers in my eyes is realistic.

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Its worth pointing out that Ace's screenshot is in Euros not Pounds which is why it looks higher than others.

Anyway if we are doing comparisons these are the leading transfers from my main two saves in FM10.

Save 1 - I played lower league and wasn't involved in any of the transfers.

LeadingTransfers.png

Save 2 - I found my way to Roma eventually but I need to point out that only Rossi is my transfer, Shawcross & Dzeko were signed by the AI before I was manager.

LeadingTransfersRoma.png

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Fact: Depending on the source, there have been 11-15 transfers in football history that were over £30m. I'm guessing the varying accounts are because of incentives, and inflation.

Fact: All but two of the transfers over £25m have involved a Spanish, English or Italian team on both ends of the deal. The exceptions are Mario Gomez and Karim Benzema.

Fact: Buffon is the only GK to be sold for over £25m.

Fact: Rio Ferdinand and Dani Alves are the only defenders to be sold for over £25m.

How many times have you had a transfer over £30m? How many times have you had to pay £25m+ for a wonderkid from a small club?

Well done.

This should end the discussion but for some reason it does not...

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You are so blind... if you are willing to pay it, for whatever reason, then you are willing to pay it period. Something you accept you can't claim is unacceptable.

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No, you are blind. This argument has been used like 10 times already. So for the last ****ing time I'm gonna explain it to you: I HAVE TONS OF MONEY. I USUALLY HAVE A TRANSFER BUDGET OF 150 MIL plus a little room to wiggle not to mention money from players I sell. Therefor even if I'm being asked an exorbitant fee for player x, I will pay it because, wait for it, wait for it, I ****ING CAN.

NOW, HOW THE **** does me doing this means that there's nothing wrong with the transfer system?!?!?!?!?!?

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Well done.

This should end the discussion but for some reason it does not...

and the reason it doesn't is?

Well question 1: "How many times have you had a transfer over £30m?" - Never

question 2: "How many times have you had to pay £25m+ for a wonderkid from a small club?" - Never

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Which begs an interesting question, would that club be demanding fees like £30m for an untried goalie if you weren't willing to pay it?

Also, can you please mind your language, thanks.

So basically you're saying, " if you only offer 15 mil, wouldn't they sell him for that amount?"

Come on man. You know the answer.

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and the reason it doesn't is?

Well question 1: "How many times have you had a transfer over £30m?" - Never

question 2: "How many times have you had to pay £25m+ for a wonderkid from a small club?" - Never

So, because you never accept crazy fees, does that mean that there's nothing wrong with the game?

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So basically you're saying, if you only offer 15 mil, wouldn't they sell him for that amount?

Come on man. You know the answer.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm suggesting that from the selling club's perspective, if a mega-rich club with a history of splashing the cash comes in for one of their players why wouldn't they try and rinse them?

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