Audio commentary!!!!!

[SCIAG]

its call football manager isn't it? you are the manager live at the stadium, i don't think jose mourinho hears anything from the commentator at the stadium.

Nor do lines of commentary appear at the bottom of his field of vision and flash when his team scores.

[AytchMan]

Some thoughts and perspective on the addition of audio commentary. In principle, I think it's a great idea. Done properly -- and that's absolutely critical -- it would add a great deal of atmosphere and entertainment to a fantastic game. Done poorly, it would be far worse than doing nothing. However, implementing such a feature correctly will require a huge effort directed at slaying three formidable dragons.

Dragon One: SI's limited resources. An effort here will necessarily detract from one or more other areas. Is the addition of audio worth the two-year postponement of, say, the random events feature I proposed a while back? Or [insert your own favorite major project here]? I'm not certain it is but it's at least arguable and worthy of debate within the community.

Dragon Two: the technological fork in the road. In my view, the use of a human commentator to deliver the audio narrative will never perform at an acceptable level. There are simply too many names, phrases and languages to cover. In addition -- to do it right, remember -- SI would need to triple the set of phrases to reduce the current level of (annoying) repetition. Plus, every time a phrase is added or updated, the related audio would need to be changed as well. This will all prove too labor-intensive. Which leaves us with computer-generated speech as the solution. Settle down out there, you kids. At present, this technology is not sufficiently developed. It works fairly well for basic communication but not for colloquial conversation and atmosphere (which is the essence of sports announcer happy-talk). As it stands now, we would not find it particularly engaging. However, within a couple of years, I think further advances will bring the speech up to an acceptable (near-human) level. Thus, the problem will shift from labor-intensive audio recording to a more manageable computer-programming effort.

Dragon Three: Robustitude. If you think the repetition of phrases in the current match text is annoying, well, get ready to hide the women and children when the new audio commentary starts to recycle. Seemingly the least difficult dragon to slay, this will make or break the feature. To succeed, SI must greatly expand the set of phrases both to eliminate the repetition and to bulk up the tactical narrative with a generous helping of color commentary. This is why sports networks use two announcers. I'm a bit of a pessimist on this one because -- and I hate to say it -- SI has a troubling history of adding new features without sufficient depth and then bulking them up later. That won't work here.

Summing up, I don't think audio commentary looms in our immediate future but it will sure be cool when it gets here and it's done right..

[Wonky]

Great post, AytchMan. I agree. You've said it more eloquently than I was willing to put in the effort to do.

[iliketurtles]

Great post, AytchMan. I agree. You've said it more eloquently than I was willing to put in the effort to do.

You mean he presented (yet another) argument against your case. Oddly, because it was so well put together, you're now claiming he's backing you up. What kind of brilliant troll tactic is that?

You screamed "we'll use technology!" a couple of times and he backed me up by saying there isn't the technology.

Facepalm.

But I accept your praise to my side of the argument. You're welcome.

[Wonky]

You mean he presented (yet another) argument against your case. Oddly, because it was so well put together, you're now claiming he's backing you up. What kind of brilliant troll tactic is that?

You screamed "we'll use technology!" a couple of times and he backed me up by saying there isn't the technology.

Facepalm.

But I accept your praise to my side of the argument. You're welcome.

No, I didn't say "we'll use technology". I said that the technology isn't there at the moment but will be in the future. Go and read my first post in this topic. And please grow up. Enough of the childishness.

[La Furia Roja]

how about you stop having digs at eachother and just talk about the topic raised, you have only made 24 posts and half of them are having a go at someone for disagreeing with you! If you feel he is having a go at you rise above it, or PM him so noone else needs to trawl through the garbage to read descent posts.

Stick to the topic or the thread will quickly get closed

[tom_numbers]

Aytchman - I think 2 and 3 are the main problems. Now, 2, I think is achievable eventually. Computers can computer generate sounds relating to words, so I believe that eventually they will be able to read more eloquently than they do now. It could be that eventually, it becomes passable enough for commentary.

3 is the main stickler though. Without human input, they'll get old really quick, and it might be too complex for guys like the SOK commentary people to do.

[Trents]

I'm not a big fan of this. You would also have to limit the match speed as commentary wouldn't keep up(or make sense) when watching in fast mode.

I'd prefer a more realistic crowd noise to reflect the relevant attendance. Big rhythmic chants at old trafford all the way down to hearing a handful of people clapping at non league level

[Matt Kult]

Although I first thought this would be a good idea , after reading some of the posts here I have to say that I don't think audio commentary should be introduced . I am already not a big fan of FIFA's pathetic repetitive commentary . I would much prefer if they would improve the current match sounds which are pretty bad . I don't think audio commentary should be a top priority .

[Fabio MVP]

Would be good if implemented correctly, but still they should keep the written commentary lines alongside with audio commentary.

[fmsteve]

Would be something I'd be unlikely to use myself as I invariably have itunes running anyway, but nonetheless, as succinctly put previously it would have to be done right.

However, I can't help thinking that the work it would take to put something like this into the game, and most of the posts above suggest it would take a lot of work, could be put to better use implementing any one of the myriad of suggested gameplay improvements at this stage?

[paulscholesisalegend]

i agree with what trents says adding huge roars at old trafford ie crowd singing kind of thing, then maybe at say forest green just some supporters clapping or a handful cheering. apart from that i cant really see full audio commentary working and for me it would detract from the game. ie its football manager where we are the manager. you dont see alex ferguson in his dug out and hes listening to commentary. if anything maybe add more text lines of commentary

[arsenalthebest]

so when is football manager going to step up and introduce audio commentary??i mean i cant be the only who mutes fm when i play!

you're not the only one come on lets take over si and sega-TO WAR!!!!!!!!!!!

[arsenalthebest]

Nor do lines of commentary appear at the bottom of his field of vision and flash when his team scores.

good point

[RBKalle]

Technology eh?

Sorry but despite the HUGE advance in technology (just compare FIFA 97 and FIFA 12 in terms of quality AND the hardware needed to run them) the audio commentary is still plagued by the same issues it had back then...

Sure, we now have longer commentary lines, more names, more appropriate comments but in the end the feature feels repetitive and boring after just a couple of days.

The feeling of "hearing the same match over and over again" is already there on FIFA/PES games where we actually PLAY the match, so our attention isn't completely focused on the audio part, which is just "background noise".

It's still a sloppy mess, despite the efforts. It just can't be done properly now, just like 15 years ago... If so-and-so happens, play the X clip, if it's the Nth minute and/or the score is N-N play the Y clip...

You do realize how many unique audio bits we'd need to get a passable play-by-play?

In a game like FM, where the simulated match can last much longer, it can get even more complicated keeping it fresh...

And then there's the huge huge huge question mark about players' names... A separate disk would be needed just to store the audio files for the names of ONE nation... that of course for the non-digital release. Have fun downloading several GBs of names.

[Mr_Whippy]

I wouldn't use it personally, I always have the sound off (as it annoys the Mrs).

Plus, I get bored hearing the same lines on FIFA and PES, there only so much I can handle before I turn their voices off and put them in Spanish.

[JamboSteven]

Name pronunciation of regens would also be quite difficult i'd imagine.

[x42bn6]

This is a good idea, but let's just say voice technology nowadays is dreadfully poor. In fact, many things audio-related are very poor at the moment.

Even FIFA and PES have repetitive voice commentary. Every time the commentator says Messi's name, it is always the same. You could add some variation, but the only way at present would be to record another voice. In other words, you cannot really parametrise sound - you just need to record more.

There is a lot of research being done in this area. Things like eigenvoices (in the same way that eigenvectors represent principal vectors in linear spaces, and eigenfaces represent principal "faces" for facial recognition) will help in the future. However, we are a long way off anything remotely close to this.

And that's just how people "say" things. "What" they say is another whole research area. At the moment, just adding tons of commentary lines is feasible - naturally being able to construct sentences needs a lot of work. Things like: Messi has scored two goals, and is on a hat-trick. He is running down the wing on a counter-attack. The ideal commentary should recognise that Messi is on a hat-trick and should reference it, so the commentary when Messi is running down the wing is different if he is on a hat-trick or not.

At present, we only have adaptive ambient sound - speech is miles off, sadly. But as games approach photorealism, it could well be that sound is the next distinguishing factor.

[nine_iron]

I do miss the "Short to the near post", good ole CM2

It would not work now though, with the inclusion of the 2D and 3D match engine the old saying "A picture shows a thousand words" really comes into its own.

Why have a lesser descriptive medium on top of all of that?

[saberhagen83]

Not sure it's a good idea. I'd rather they focus on getting the game better and fixing issues that has been with the game for a few years now. Plus, as I would think most people play the game at extended/key highlights and/or at a higher speed, the commentary would sound quite funny if it was to keep up with the game on screen. Not to mention, if one thinks the press is repetative (I do after a few weeks in game) then audio commentary would not be much better. Just think of FIFA, I think they have the best commentary in a football game but after a while it's the same thing over and over. Though I still use it on that game, but have turned it off on NHL cause it's even worse! It's fun for a while, having that TV feel to the game. But it's near impossible to keep it dynamic enough at this point in time plus regens etc would be difficult. Think in the end the commentators would only use shirt numbers when naming a player.

[duduric]

Made me think about having Microsoft Sam reading the ingame text commentary lol. That would be damn hilarious!

[jimbobBRFC]

I think it would just be repetitive and annoying. Then it would get like FIFA which really does annoy me commentary wise. Love it how I score to make it 1-1 and they say "such a team" will have to work hard to get back in this game. Well actually Clive no we are not, I have just equalised are you watching the game? The commentary would get like this, and then you have the problem of regens.

[robertcornell68]

I think this would get annoying about ten minutes into the first match.

If SI developed a program clever enough to comment intelligently on a football match, even a fake one, they could probably quit the games business and buy Microsoft.

[Suzie MUFC]

Please, just... no.

The whole reason commentary is there is for feedback purposes, not cosmetic.

[The Welsh Lad]

Don't know if this has been said but it would take a considerable amount of time to add commentary, think of all the nations that the game is sold in, then think of how many languages the commentary will have to be in, there are issues with different languages in text in FM with languages that have 2 or 3 words for the same thing depending on the context it is being said in.

If anything should be done regarding audio. FM should have something similar to FIFA where you can save your songs into a play list, so instead of having FM and your media player or external Hi-Fi etc. running you would only need one program/machine running, saves on electric and processor usage.

[Carmi88]

The text commentary is repeated enough, speech would be 10x more buggy, repetitive and crap. Never introduce it SI, cheers

[django_z]

It's a bear to figure out and takes time and resources, but when done well it would add a great deal to the game.

It's not on my top 10 list of additions to the game. But it might be on my next 10 list.

BTW - just because it didn't work well in the past doesn't mean that it can't work well now. Ya know...there are other people making video games out there and they manage to do excellent audio work from time to time. Yeah, some of it sucks, but that doesn't mean the good stuff isn't good.

[VonBlade]

i don't know why is everybody mentioning FIFA or PES commentary, has anyone played NBA 2K12?

Yes. However like the equally good MLB 12K commentary it's a whole different game. NBA is 5 on 5 in a limited court and every 24 seconds we reset to 'starting positions'. Like in MLB. Or the NFL. This greatly reduces the amount that might need to be said.

Whereas Football has 45 minutes of potentially non-stop action with long-throws, short throws, near post, far post, wing-backs overlapping, yadda yadda. And 22 players. Free kicks aren't always taken from the same spot either.

So the reason people quote Fifa and PES is because they're trying to replicate the same sport. And suck at it. Just like all Football commentary through history.

[Kenco]

I'd be bored of the commentary after 1 match, so if I played a 25 year career it would probably drive me insane. How many different commentators would there be? It would need to be lots of different ones to make it more interesting. Can you imagine how dull it would be with Martin Tyler and Ray Wilkins every game?

Also, I play matches at a higher than real-life speed, so would commentaries all speed up and sound like munchkins? That would be amusing for 10 seconds.

I always mute FM and think I always will.

[Guest]

Maybe they could get Alan Green to do the audio, his special brand of loathing everything would suit this place.