SI, don't add any fluff for next year, please!

[jayahr]

Do we really need 20 threads about this?

Fair enough if someone has this opinion, but there are so many threads about this that you don't even need to do a search for them.

[Yallii]

Ter: The original set up had all the information/actions in one screen, the new one has it spread over two screens. Personally I don't see how that's better. Isn't there a wizard for setting up new games that you can turn on or off anyway?

[swedishchef_uk]

I enjoy FM, but will never buy until fully patched. I like long career games, so I see no incentive to buy straight away and then wait for parts to be fixed. However, every year there are these type of complaints and every year, on day of release, the game seels loads and sits on the top of the charts. While this happens, why would policy change?

I still believe FM is the best game out there (I'm still on FM10) - but I don't feel the need to purchase on day of release. Perhaps if people who felt let down managed to hold off until it is fully patched you'd find that:

1. you get a game that works better

2. you'll get it cheaper

3. SI/SEGA may pause for thought seeing that initial sales have dipped and take stock.

Just a thought.

[S.G.]

#1 priority for FM2011 should be a huge AI update.

[Yallii]

the game sells loads and sits on the top of the charts. While this happens, why would policy change?

It has nothing to do with quality, though. Same with music: if Lady Gaga would release an album today full of whale sounds it would top the charts. Some things sell regardless of what they are because of the 'brand name'.

You've got a point, though. We can discuss for ages, but nothing will change.

[crouchaldinho]

Ter: The original set up had all the information/actions in one screen, the new one has it spread over two screens. Personally I don't see how that's better. Isn't there a wizard for setting up new games that you can turn on or off anyway?

I've got to agree with this personally. I much preferred how it was before.

[RBKalle]

It can be used for its purpose, its a game, it plays on the hardware it is designed for, therefore it is not broken.

Yeah!

I'm sure that's what Ferrari would have loved to reply to customers who reported back a case of "spontaneous combustion" when their 458 suddenly turned into a fireball, courtesy of adhesive (and inflammable) material near to the engine bay/exhausts...

Probably a driver could avoid that issue by not driving over 50mph or longer than 1 hour... but that's hardly the way you're supposed to use a Ferrari...

So who cares if FM "plays" on the hardware it's been designed and can "sort of" be used for its purpose...

Its purpose wasn't "playing lower league so the transfer bug doesn't affect your Sunday League Club too much".

[milnerpoint]

Yeah!

I'm sure that's what Ferrari would have loved to reply to customers who reported back a case of "spontaneous combustion" when their 458 suddenly turned into a fireball, courtesy of adhesive (and inflammable) material near to the engine bay/exhausts...

Probably a driver could avoid that issue by not driving over 50mph or longer than 1 hour... but that's hardly the way you're supposed to use a Ferrari...

So who cares if FM "plays" on the hardware it's been designed and can "sort of" be used for its purpose...

Its purpose wasn't "playing lower league so the transfer bug doesn't affect your Sunday League Club too much".

yes because buying a £25 game is the same as buying a £100,000 car..........

Just because the game doesnt do exactly what you want doesnt mean it is broken.

[RBKalle]

yes because buying a £25 game is the same as buying a £100,000 car..........

I doesn't matter how much you pay for something...

If it's a product of a well-known and well-respected company, you are supposed to expect a certain standard of quality.

Be it a 100k sportscar not bursting into flames or a 25 quids videogame not "raping" the logic of the game it's supposed to simulate with a fair rate of realism.

Just because the game doesnt do exactly what you want doesnt mean it is broken.

What I want?

No, what the vast majority of users and fans want and expect... Or to you it's all fine as long as FM runs on a machine with the Minimum Requirements and/or doesn't crash to desktop every 10 minutes? Do people make up screenshots of Rooney being unemployed and of 100+ top players being sold at face value, just for the sake of complaining?

Would you rate a racing simulation as "working fine" should you have HRT Racing hiring Hamilton for £10000 per year, Bruno Senna winning races and cars reaching 300mph? It'd still be a fully-working F1 game, but what about realism?

[Deep Lying Playmaker]

It can be used for its purpose, its a game, it plays on the hardware it is designed for, therefore it is not broken.

I'd say the majority of people who play using the premier league would say the transfer system and player interaction are both broken, I don't think that point is in dispute by now. Many people are either dropping down the league's like edgar555 or they're waiting for the next patch for a fix. Is that the game being used for is designed perpose by your definition?

[milnerpoint]

I doesn't matter how much you pay for something...

If it's a product of a well-known and well-respected company, you are supposed to expect a certain standard of quality.

Be it a 100k sportscar not bursting into flames or a 25 quids videogame not "raping" the logic of the game it's supposed to simulate with a fair rate of realism.

the game isnt "raping any logic, jesus calm down a bit, the game works fine, it does what it says on the tin, it simulates football managment, maybe not exactly how you would imagine it but it does exactly what its suppose to.

[quote name='RBKalle;6190483

What I want?

No' date=' what [b']the vast majority of users and fans[/b] want and expect... Or to you it's all fine as long as FM runs on a machine with the Minimum Requirements and/or doesn't crash to desktop every 10 minutes? Do people make up screenshots of Rooney being unemployed and of 100+ top players being sold at face value, just for the sake of complaining?

Would you rate a racing simulation as "working fine" should you have HRT Racing hiring Hamilton for £10000 per year, Bruno Senna winning races and cars reaching 300mph? It'd still be a fully-working F1 game, but what about realism?

as far as i can tell its a small minority of the people who post of these forums that are complaining, hardly the vast majority of fans, just because you think this way does not mean everyone else does.

I run the game on full specs. never crashed once, just because a few people are having issues with the game crashing again it doesnt mean everyone is, remember people who are happy with this game will most likely be playing it and not posting on here.

There has been one example of Rooney on a free, and that guy released him, not everyone has experienced these problems so again please do not think that you speak for every FM fan out there.

Your F1 examples are extreme and nothing like what is happening in FM11

[Brian Shanahan]

What I want?

No, what the vast majority of users and fans want and expect... Or to you it's all fine as long as FM runs on a machine with the Minimum Requirements and/or doesn't crash to desktop every 10 minutes? Do people make up screenshots of Rooney being unemployed and of 100+ top players being sold at face value, just for the sake of complaining?

Would you rate a racing simulation as "working fine" should you have HRT Racing hiring Hamilton for £10000 per year, Bruno Senna winning races and cars reaching 300mph? It'd still be a fully-working F1 game, but what about realism?

Well then why does a pretty large sample of the users here rate the game on average over 7 (and on median at 8) then? Frankly those of you complaining are either making mountains out of molehills, exaggerating wildly, describing game mechanics as bugs or, in one case, blatantly photoshopping a screenshot to try and raise some anti-SI ire.

While the game is not perfect, I find that the ME is a lot smoother than last years (I'm currently playing a network game on FM10 with a friend), the interaction is a hell of a lot deeper, the training system a lot more detailed and realsitic (even if it isn't shown that well in the training screen?).

The transfer problem is not a transfer problem per se but a happiness one (i.e. people getting too upset too easily over team-talks and private chats) which is an issue probably with AI managers (i.e. the only times I've been able to replicate that level of unhappiness was by continually coming the hound, guessing AI managers are set to strict too much). And remember there were people seriously arguing that the prices we're currently decrying (i.e. players going for shown value) represented levels of bids that the AI should be taking as recently as for last year, my how things have swung.

Face it, these anti-game rants are populated over and over again by the same core of people who are very quick to jump on any perceived fault but are very slow to acknoledge any perceived triumph. Now I don't mind people saying the transfer system is broken, or that private chats need to be fixed/improved, as in both cases work needs to be done to sort out problems, but decrying the whole game as a reflex action is way beyond bounds. If you want to decry a broken game there are a lot out there which are genuinely broken.

[milnerpoint]

I'd say the majority of people who play using the premier league would say the transfer system and player interaction are both broken, I don't think that point is in dispute by now. Many people are either dropping down the league's like edgar555 or they're waiting for the next patch for a fix. Is that the game being used for is designed perpose by your definition?

you mean the majority of people who have posted on here with complaints. BIG difference.

I can simulate football management with this game, so yes it does what it was designed to do. I do not expect it to be an exact replica of the real world, thats what life is for. I play this game so i can go into my own footballing world and it helps me do that perfectly fine.

[Deep Lying Playmaker]

you mean the majority of people who have posted on here with complaints. BIG difference.

I can simulate football management with this game, so yes it does what it was designed to do. I do not expect it to be an exact replica of the real world, thats what life is for. I play this game so i can go into my own footballing world and it helps me do that perfectly fine.

Well if you're still saying nothing is wrong with the transfer system I really can't argue against that

[milnerpoint]

Well if you're still saying nothing is wrong with the transfer system I really can't argue against that

i do not think the game is perfect, there are always going to be things all of us would like improved, but to say it is "broken" is out of order, nothing is broken, and especially not in the way certain people seem to suggest, the game will not kill you or fall apart on you. I know you didnt use one of those extreme examples but its all part of what i am trying to say.

[Wiitastic]

Sorry but you will never have a bug free game, there will always be some users who think certain things are 'broken' which they think makes the game 'unplayable' when really they are deluded and the game is playable out of the box.

The transfer system is annoying and that yellow card thing in Spain and where ever else was fixed oh and CCC ? fix your tactics and get better players who finish better, and sorry, just in real life ya aint ggoing to score from every CCC, just get used to it

[roykela]

Feelsl like every game released deserves a 10 out of 10, no matter how bad or good it is.

All people have to do is wait for patches and next releases. As every release is just a stepping stone to something better on the next release.

As long as the people stick with the game they buy, and continue to buy the next version.

[jld123]

I don't know if I can word this right but bear with me.

If SI took a year out and didn't make FM11, then FM12 would be nowhere near as good as it will be because of FM11.

We (the community) play an important role in the life cycle of the game. If FM11 hadn't been released and was still undergoing testing, then SI wouldn't know half of these bugs exist. I could go on but fear I'd be waffling.

[RBKalle]

Well then why does a pretty large sample of the users here rate the game on average over 7 (and on median at 8) then? Frankly those of you complaining are either making mountains out of molehills, exaggerating wildly,

So those who are negative are exaggerating, but those who rated it 9 or 10 aren't?

describing game mechanics as bugs or, in one case, blatantly photoshopping a screenshot to try and raise some anti-SI ire

What's the point of photoshopping a screenie and of raising anti-SI ire? Unless some of the nay-sayers are on a rival company's payroll, I don't see a reason for a FAN of the game to make up stuff.

And if to you players being sold for peanuts is "game mechanics", then I rest my case...

While the game is not perfect, I find that the ME is a lot smoother than last years (I'm currently playing a network game on FM10 with a friend), the interaction is a hell of a lot deeper, the training system a lot more detailed and realsitic (even if it isn't shown that well in the training screen?).

Fair enough... that's why I think FM2011 can be a 7, when/if the bugs will be sorted out.

However, I can't fully enjoy the improvements if the very core of the game [ie. buying and selling players] is working like crap.

The transfer problem is not a transfer problem per se but a happiness one (i.e. people getting too upset too easily over team-talks and private chats) which is an issue probably with AI managers (i.e. the only times I've been able to replicate that level of unhappiness was by continually coming the hound, guessing AI managers are set to strict too much). And remember there were people seriously arguing that the prices we're currently decrying (i.e. players going for shown value) represented levels of bids that the AI should be taking as recently as for last year, my how things have swung.

Whatever the hidden reason, Hamsik being sold at £9M (happened in my game) is still plain wrong. Financial crisis or not...

Face it, these anti-game rants are populated over and over again by the same core of people who are very quick to jump on any perceived fault but are very slow to acknoledge any perceived triumph. Now I don't mind people saying the transfer system is broken, or that private chats need to be fixed/improved, as in both cases work needs to be done to sort out problems, but decrying the whole game as a reflex action is way beyond bounds. If you want to decry a broken game there are a lot out there which are genuinely broken.

Broken might be too strong of a word, but what's the point of denying there are rather huge issues with the interaction/transfers portion of the game?

I feel many "trolls" are overexaggerating the brokenness of the game because SI apologists insist on it all being make-believe by some morons who have an hidden agenda to make SI look bad.

Which is simply not the case.

We ALL LOVE FM, and if we complain it's because we know it could and should be so much better. And also because we'd rather not pay a game we're now beta-testing until the final patch comes out in a couple of months, thanks to our reports and suggestions.

[Ackter]

For every person wanting a bug fix there's another person waiting to complain there isn't a new feature.

[Willis]

If you don't like the game, or are not enjoying it, don't buy any future versions. Simple.

Will take your advice for next year, at least until the second patch comes out.

I still can't figure out how to have young players tutored. Why they have to change a system that works is beyond me, especially now the new system is broken

Agreed, it's absolutely terrible at the moment.

[Blacksquare]

They need to sell data update packs. If the features are that great, it alone should convince me to buy it. Like FM11 with the asking for a new stadium is great but the bugs kill FM11 for me. So I would buy a data pack in the meantime as I refuse to buy that buggy of a FM11.

Plus we seriously need to be able to start the game in February. I'm sick of having Jan transfers in the summer or having to load Norway up.

If FM11 hadn't been released and was still undergoing testing, then SI wouldn't know half of these bugs exist. I could go on but fear I'd be waffling.

Thats the problem. Some of these transfer market bugs are so in your face that how could it have been missed. I would just like to imagine how the alpha and best testing versions were.

[Takos]

I really hope that if SI actually takes the time next year to fix the game and not just add the fluff, then they must fix the 3D graphics.

In Eurocup group stage final match to see if my team would advance I needed a win. I am Cherno more in Bulgaria and was playing Dortmund at Dortmund. Game tied 1-1 in the 84th minute and my left midfielder hits a perfect shot into the corner of the goal and their keeper dives and while his whole body is laying inside the goal he made the save. Fix that kind of stuff first.

The graphics are whack and Im tired of seeing offsides and horrible looking tackles that are not called fouls while touches are carded.

[edgar555]

I really hope that if SI actually takes the time next year to fix the game and not just add the fluff, then they must fix the 3D graphics.

In Eurocup group stage final match to see if my team would advance I needed a win. I am Cherno more in Bulgaria and was playing Dortmund at Dortmund. Game tied 1-1 in the 84th minute and my left midfielder hits a perfect shot into the corner of the goal and their keeper dives and while his whole body is laying inside the goal he made the save. Fix that kind of stuff first.

The graphics are whack and Im tired of seeing offsides and horrible looking tackles that are not called fouls while touches are carded.

your complaint is about the refereeing, refs will always make mistakes. This is just like RL and one of the few things that seem to work ok at the moment.

Upload the highlights of that match or the pkm if you truly think you've been shafted but in all likelihood you've just suffered from a 'Frank Lampard v Germany' moment.

[Takos]

your complaint is about the refereeing, refs will always make mistakes. This is just like RL and one of the few things that seem to work ok at the moment.

Upload the highlights of that match or the pkm if you truly think you've been shafted but in all likelihood you've just suffered from a 'Frank Lampard v Germany' moment.

I am not talking about the refs but about the graphics. I want the graphics fixed so these things that we see on the 3D don't look so horrible and want to make people complain.

[edgar555]

In Eurocup group stage final match to see if my team would advance I needed a win. I am Cherno more in Bulgaria and was playing Dortmund at Dortmund. Game tied 1-1 in the 84th minute and my left midfielder hits a perfect shot into the corner of the goal and their keeper dives and while his whole body is laying inside the goal he made the save. Fix that kind of stuff first.

No you are talking about the refereeing, and what you've described is no different from the Lampard incident, The Phantom Mendes goal at Old Trafford, or countless other times when a ball has crossed the line and is clawed back/bounces back out of the goal. The fact that such things are in the game are a credit to SI.

[Takos]

No you are talking about the refereeing, and what you've described is no different from the Lampard incident, The Phantom Mendes goal at Old Trafford, or countless other times when a ball has crossed the line and is clawed back/bounces back out of the goal. The fact that such things are in the game are a credit to SI.

I said exactly that the keeper dove and saved the ball, if it was a goal or not I DO NOT CARE, but the fact that his entire body was inside the goal was my complaint. FIX the graphics. I cannot say it another way. If you cannot understand that, I suppose there is nothing else to say.

[edgar555]

I said exactly that the keeper dove and saved the ball, if it was a goal or not I DO NOT CARE, but the fact that his entire body was inside the goal was my complaint. FIX the graphics. I cannot say it another way. If you cannot understand that, I suppose there is nothing else to say.

And if you can't understand the very simple language I have used then there is little point in me continuing this either. Take care.

[cmontheloknow]

Thats the problem. Some of these transfer market bugs are so in your face that how could it have been missed. I would just like to imagine how the alpha and best testing versions were.

Would you consider the possibility that this particular bug only appeared very late in testing?

[edgar555]

Would you consider the possibility that this particular bug only appeared very late in testing?

Oooh, finally someone with some common sense and understanding. Today could be a good day yet. Good post

[roykela]

Would you consider the possibility that this particular bug only appeared very late in testing?

Perhaps late, but it's still in the testing phase, if that would be the case.

If it's still in testing the problem ought to be dealt with.

[cmontheloknow]

Perhaps late, but it's still in the testing phase, if that would be the case.

If it's still in testing the problem ought to be dealt with.

How about if it appeared a week before the game was finished?

[roykela]

It could possibly lead to a delay, which would suck for both the gamers and the developers.

But i think it should still be dealt with, before releasing it.

[rancer890]

They need to sell data update packs. If the features are that great, it alone should convince me to buy it. Like FM11 with the asking for a new stadium is great but the bugs kill FM11 for me. So I would buy a data pack in the meantime as I refuse to buy that buggy of a FM11.

Plus we seriously need to be able to start the game in February. I'm sick of having Jan transfers in the summer or having to load Norway up.

They won't sell data update packs when you can get them for FREE from fansites. Data update packs are obviously cheaper than buying a whole game so obviously economic it wouldn't make sense for them. It baffles me how people come up with situations that won't make sense from SI's and Sega's POV, which at the end of the day, they are making and selling video games for profit and making money, just like every other business in this world. And the main reason we work, to make money so we can feed our families and entertain ourselves with games like FM.

If you don't want to buy FM11 then keep playing FM10 with user made data updates. Simples.

It could possibly lead to a delay, which would suck for both the gamers and the developers.

But i think it should still be dealt with, before releasing it.

And then there will be a backlash from:

1) customers who want the game, who will complain every bloody day that SI aren't releasing the game on the forums

2) in-store and online retailers who want the game to sell it to others

How can anyone trust SI to actually release the game on the release date if they can't keep their promise? Doing business is based on trust between everyone. If they announce a release date, they pretty much have to be done by 12:00am that morning.

Sigh, SI can never win over everyone...

[roykela]

The customers on the forums complain about everything and nothing, all the time anyways. They would just change what they're complaining about.

If they announce a date, they can announce it as a scheduled date, not a confirmed date.

Or just don't announce a date.

No matter how one put it, in relation to how they're doing it now or how it could be done, they can't and won't please everybody. No chance.

But it seems like the way they're doing it now adds more and more strain and pressure on themselves.

Like they say, they're just a small company with limited resources. Well, if you want to keep the same quality then they have to make some changes.

I mean, they won't be looking to downgrade the game. But in order to keep the quality AND improve it, they need to change something.

Will it mean jumping over a year; hire more people; change the way they're working internally?

Maybe all of them....maybe they will do none of them.

With success comes improvement. The bigger the success the harder it is to maintain it. And with the tough schedule they are on now, it's quite amazing what they actually manage to come out with.

But it's also taking it's toll. Old bugs staying in release after release accompanied with new ones, because of the implementation of new features.

It's just going to be more and more of it if they don't do something about it. Might not even be a lot they have to change. I wouldn't know.

But something should definitely change there.

In the meantime, i'm enjoying the game very much, despite the bugs. The bugs do create new routines and habits though, that'll be hard to change when they're fixed

[rancer890]

The customers on the forums complain about everything and nothing, all the time anyways. They would just change what they're complaining about.

If they announce a date, they can announce it as a scheduled date, not a confirmed date.

Or just don't announce a date.

No matter how one put it, in relation to how they're doing it now or how it could be done, they can't and won't please everybody. No chance.

But it seems like the way they're doing it now adds more and more strain and pressure on themselves.

Like they say, they're just a small company with limited resources. Well, if you want to keep the same quality then they have to make some changes.

I mean, they won't be looking to downgrade the game. But in order to keep the quality AND improve it, they need to change something.

Will it mean jumping over a year; hire more people; change the way they're working internally?

Maybe all of them....maybe they will do none of them.

With success comes improvement. The bigger the success the harder it is to maintain it. And with the tough schedule they are on now, it's quite amazing what they actually manage to come out with.

But it's also taking it's toll. Old bugs staying in release after release accompanied with new ones, because of the implementation of new features.

It's just going to be more and more of it if they don't do something about it. Might not even be a lot they have to change. I wouldn't know.

But something should definitely change there.

In the meantime, i'm enjoying the game very much, despite the bugs. The bugs do create new routines and habits though, that'll be hard to change when they're fixed

Firstly, I'm not saying complaining about a product is bad. Mind, we've all probably called customer service before in our lives complaining about something. Customers in general complain about everything imaginable...

For SI to keep being the leader in Football Management video games, they have to have new features to entice customers old and new to buy the new version of the game. Previously they had CM and FIFA Manager as competiton, and now only FIFA Manager. Competition breeds improvement in your products. And for everyone asking to skip a year, CM is already doing that this year. But because they probably won't make money anyways if they released a new version. Why would you skip a year when you have such a successful economic model right now and a stranglehold on customers in this market?

Customers have three choices (or 2 major ones and a small one, and another one lol) if they want to play football management games:

1) Football Manager - SI/Sega

2) FIFA Manager - EA Sports

3) CM on iPhone - Eidos

4) none of the above, save your money, play an older version of one of the three

When you add in new things of course there's a chance of something with go wrong. The customer is basically a beta tester in all video games. SI, as well as any other company who makes games, can't hire a testing team of millions. Bugs are bound to be noticed by someone. SI are going to face deadlines. There's only so much to do.

SI don't want to put bugs in the game. I'm no programmer but I'm disappointed some bugs have stayed in the game since I learned about this game, and one league (MLS) is buggier than ever, but it's a league different from the rest of the world, and some of the programmers might have trouble understanding how MLS works, and how to properly code for that league so it's realistic. I really want them to fix up MLS, along with many supporters of that league who play FM.

I'm hopeful they can fix the bugs in the 2nd patch. I'll keep supporting the game as long as they treat us the customer fairly and back up their promises when they say they will fix the game through the patches. It's all about trust to me like I said previously.

[JRD7a]

I wouldn't say it was perfectly fine. Maybe for people who had used the game for years but certainly not for new users who were often quite confused by what they were meant to be doing there.

I think that's quite an unintentionally revealing comment. The game/series is about getting a constant stream of new customers. Should those same people "who had used the game for years" should have their issues (that affect gamepleay) addressed rather than 12 year olds?

[Flashman]

I wouldn't say it was perfectly fine. Maybe for people who had used the game for years but certainly not for new users who were often quite confused by what they were meant to be doing there.

I can honestly say that the first time I saw the 'old' setup screen the only thing that confused me was the 'add key staff' button. I only recently found out what it does and there is still no real explanation.

I really do struggle to see what a 'new user' is going to get out of this game if they can't negotiate their way through the setup.

Enjoyed FM10 eventually, once I got used to the UI, because there weren't too many game-spoiling bugs - are we going to see a similar release in 2012 in that we finally get a fully working version of last year's game...? (in February, anyway..)

[Martyr1777]

Ok... so this threads gone for a while and there is the obvious 2 factions... 'Don't spend time on new items to fix bugs' and 'We want new shiny!'

Ok now the key to this thread is in the title... -FLUFF-

new fluff is a joke with all these bugs, but we can have new shiny without it being fluff. How about as a new feature there is a quality set piece editor, not the 'oh by the way' nothing one we have. Things like that, things that enhance the game with new better features but aren't simple pointless fluff.

[tingting]

How can anyone trust SI to actually release the game on the release date if they can't keep their promise? Doing business is based on trust between everyone. If they announce a release date, they pretty much have to be done by 12:00am that morning.

Sigh, SI can never win over everyone...

Ok release the game on the date announced but what was the need to release a patch on the date announced? Patches are not being "sold" to a customer, majority of us would have been willing to go with a delay of 10 days or two weeks if SI said that they are still fixing a bug. This once again comes to the point of testing. Maybe there have been comments from more "knowledgeable" people but if SI really tested the patch, and found a major bug even if it was on Nov 4, then they should have said it on the forum and delayed the release for the patch. For me, all this talk about "Yes there were bugs, but SI released a patch to fix them on the day the game was released" is nothing but a marketing gimmick thats all.

As many have said before, some of the bugs are so "in your face" that unless the testers were testing the 10.3 patch again, they would have identified the bug. And i am not talking just about the transfer bug, there were those specific league bugs (though SI did come up with a hot fix) and then there is the French league bug. Just got offered a job at PSG and i found that they have 71 first team players and bought 34 players (on free) during the recently concluded transfer window. Such a bug has clearly shot their finances, their wage budget is around 750k but they are spending 1.3 million while balance is -5.5 million. And this is not just limited to PSG, all the teams in Ligue 1 are affected by this bug.

Rather than adding all those fancy stadiums, animation moves or useless features such as twitter/youtube links, i would rather SI spend time fixing the existing flaws and thoroughly test the game/patch

[Ter]

I think that's quite an unintentionally revealing comment. The game/series is about getting a constant stream of new customers. Should those same people "who had used the game for years" should have their issues (that affect gamepleay) addressed rather than 12 year olds?

Any changes to the user interface don't take time away from gameplay issues

I can honestly say that the first time I saw the 'old' setup screen the only thing that confused me was the 'add key staff' button. I only recently found out what it does and there is still no real explanation.

I really do struggle to see what a 'new user' is going to get out of this game if they can't negotiate their way through the setup.

Enjoyed FM10 eventually, once I got used to the UI, because there weren't too many game-spoiling bugs - are we going to see a similar release in 2012 in that we finally get a fully working version of last year's game...? (in February, anyway..)

I'm assuming you have played the game for a number of years and already know what you are meant to be doing. It's certainly interesting watching someone who hasn't played Football Manager before getting lost on some screens. It's certainly an ongoing challenge to make the game more accessible and user friendly for everyone without losing any of the detail that is already there.

[Wayne\'o]

I agree totaly, i have always wonderd why each year more and more new features are added to a game that was riddled with bugs and complaints the year before, surly fixing and make the release version complete before adding new gimicks would be the way to go, id rather see new graphics and a wider choice of skins with a simple player update than i would having new features every year, failing that just make add ons or updates for last years game.

[edgar555]

I agree totaly' date=' i have always wonderd why each year more and more new features are added to a game that was riddled with bugs and complaints the year before, surly fixing and make the release version complete before adding new gimicks would be the way to go, id rather see new graphics and a wider choice of skins with a simple player update than i would having new features every year, failing that just make add ons or updates for last years game. [/quote']

Riddled with bugs last year, yet 10.3 was hailed as the best ever. Hmmm?

For every person who wants no new stuff there are 20 who are demanding it.

As for the issue of appeasing new users/existing users, its obvious that (as with all companies/products) that SI have to strike a balance. FM can be a complex game and making it accessible is essential, because you know what? If they don't get new users, then eventually they won't be able to make the game. Older users will lapse and have to be replaced.

And if anyone is struggling with the new league set up page, I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself. It ain't rocket science, it works perfectly well and is easy to use.

[roykela]

Riddled with bugs last year, yet 10.3 was hailed as the best ever. Hmmm?[/]

For every person who wants no new stuff there are 20 who are demanding it.

As for the issue of appeasing new users/existing users, its obvious that (as with all companies/products) that SI have to strike a balance. FM can be a complex game and making it accessible is essential, because you know what? If they don't get new users, then eventually they won't be able to make the game. Older users will lapse and have to be replaced.

And if anyone is struggling with the new league set up page, I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself. It ain't rocket science, it works perfectly well and is easy to use.

10.3 is the keyword (or number ) there. That's around 4 months from when it was released.

And i bet that the 20 demanding new stuff, would appreciate it a bit more if there were less obvious bugs on the release.

[edgar555]

10.3 is the keyword (or number ) there. That's around 4 months from when it was released.

And i bet that the 20 demanding new stuff, would appreciate it a bit more if there were less obvious bugs on the release.

I won't argue either point Roykela, just felt that certain things should be made clear.

[roykela]

That i completely agree with.

I won't argue that point either

[edgar555]

Agreement and harmony in GD? Surely it won't last.

[roykela]

One can hope, but nope. Not likely

[DeadZone]

Woah, am I still dreaming... an agreement in GD???? lol

Quick, the world is ending, disagree on something fast, the balance needs to be restored hahaha

[Wayne\'o]

i dont really see how releasing a game with less bug's has any thing to do with new users or old users?