Should FM be tested more before its available to buy ???

[roykela]

Don't pretend to know about something you don't have a clue about. You know nothing about how testers act, so don't say they just play the game. It's also very low to pick on a group who are legally bound to not reply.

But he's not entirely wrong now, is he. According to a few posts i've read.

Especially when they decided to have an open beta test.

Before you ask me to provide links to back up my statement.......i will update this post when i run into them

And if he doesn't know what he's talking about....why so defensive?

[ManchesterTigers]

What FM needs is a 1 year gap. Scrape FM 12, and now start developing FM13, next November/October stop developing FM13 and put it into a year's test. At the same time start developing FM14.

Repeat and rinse and you have a winner

[SCIAG]

But he's not entirely wrong now, is he. According to a few posts i've read.

Especially when they decided to have an open beta test.

Before you ask me to provide links to back up my statement.......i will update this post when i run into them

And if he doesn't know what he's talking about....why so defensive?

He said "the testers they employ don't test the game, just play it". He has no idea what people do, and he's tarring some very hard working people with an unfair brush. I'm sick to death of people complaining that testers aren't doing their jobs without knowing what testers are doing.

I have access to the beta forums as a mod, and the ratio of bug reports to beta testers is much higher than the ratio of bug reports in the public forum to active forum members, even if you include random rants in the second number.

[TheGulls]

And explain to me how something so simple to see could be missed???

It would be interesting to know what version you are using as I have just tried the same on my save game and it works fine no matter what formation I have. Have you used the editor ? Used downloaded tactics or anything else ? This type of bug could be easily missed in testing and may be the result of a combination of button clicks which set off the bug on your particular game, if this were the case then the bug would be hard to replicate and quite easy to miss by a tester.

[leumd]

totally agree with your posts, i know i wont be buying the game til the 3rd patch and cant see the harm in just releasing a data update so they can iron out the problems, after all the beauty of the game is the realism of it and all the bugs really spoil that

I'd go for this. I think just a simple season update package every second year would be great. I wouldn't even mind paying for it, considering the number of hours I put into the game. Near 400 now for FM10 and I only paid $35 for it in the UK.

[Deep Lying Playmaker]

I have access to the beta forums as a mod, and the ratio of bug reports to beta testers is much higher than the ratio of bug reports in the public forum to active forum members, even if you include random rants in the second number.

And yet.........FM2011

[wally13]

What FM needs is a 1 year gap. Scrape FM 12, and now start developing FM13, next November/October stop developing FM13 and put it into a year's test. At the same time start developing FM14.

Repeat and rinse and you have a winner

Then come this time next year people like you will be moaing on why's theres no fm

[Martyr1777]

And yet.........FM2011

Just because a company knows about a bug doesn't mean they fix it before release... it's common practice now for them to shrug and say "Ship it, we'll fix it with patches" come release time.

It's been talked about before and there are 2 clear factions pretty much straight down the middle it seemed to me... leave things how they are or stop releasing every year.

The problem with this discussion is it's completely pointless and moot. I hate the annual release personally, but there is no way that will ever change unless most of the customers give SI/SEGA the middle finger... heh, yeah that will really happen.

[santy001]

Having tested FM in the past I can say that the testing is round the clock and very much designed to find as many errors as possible but the simple matter of fact is, thousands of users playing each in their own way with their own combinations of setups and playstyles causes situations which are almost untestable.

For example, you may find that if you play with Sweden and Iceland in full detail, with the English leagues (premiership only) as 'view only' there is a misproportionate amount of interest from championship clubs and even premiership clubs in the players there. I know because my laptop for FM08 was pretty poor, so I played a small game with this very set-up, and Chelsea bought 2 of my talented youngsters for over £2m a piece, they were good but nowhere near that good at that stage of their career, but hitting over 7.5 averages in Iceland had led to this.

On the face of it, it is a bug, but its not a bug in that theres an error in the coding or a problem with the game, but merely the game not being run as you would truly expect it to be. Chelsea (and others) had only Sweden and Iceland really to cherry pick new talent from, and as a side making respectable progress in Europe (late stages of CL qualification) it becomes an almost game breaking issue because any player who played well was taken off me and I couldn't replace them that quickly.

Simple matter is every permeatation like that cannot be tested. However, as you can now see what is classed as a bug to one person may not be to another, there are flaws, no one is denying that but a 'gamebreaking/major' bug is one that means you cannot progress any further - whether it be you can no longer press continue (or like with spanish registration a couple of seasons ago I think), or your computer blue screens or the FM.exe crashes. That is the standard definition of a major showstopper, for you a major bug seems to consitute something which is inconvenient and you don't like.

The fact Milan Badelj recently came to me asking for his wages to be increased from £20,000 to £110,000 a week at a team where the top earner is only on around £50,000 a week is a bug (seemingly related to when I tried to push him down from £40k to £30k a week demands before his agent then disliked me), not even the greediest of players would look at the club, look at the facts and decide that there was a remote hope in hell of getting it. It's a bit annoying but it means I shift him on to someone who will pay him what he wants and replace him, but theres still 3 and a half years left on his contract so there is no problem for me.

[Deep Lying Playmaker]

Simple matter is every permeatation like that cannot be tested. However, as you can now see what is classed as a bug to one person may not be to another, there are flaws, no one is denying that but a 'gamebreaking/major' bug is one that means you cannot progress any further - whether it be you can no longer press continue (or like with spanish registration a couple of seasons ago I think), or your computer blue screens or the FM.exe crashes. That is the standard definition of a major showstopper, for you a major bug seems to consitute something which is inconvenient and you don't like.

Dictionary definition of broken; Verb, fractured, smashed or splintered. Not in working order, not working as intended.

This game is not working as intended, neither would it be if all the bugs were only minor but people are overlooking those for the sake of the game.

One of the problems with FM2011 is random CTD's so please don't patronize those having some pretty big issues by implying people don't even know what a bug is.

Cheers.

[santy001]

I can be far more condescending than that, but those definitions of broken become weaker and weaker, the game is in working order yet its not working as intended. So... by the definitions proposed its not broken, but it is broken. Thats a contradiction of terms, and your own argument would fall resoundingly on its backside.

However, you have to argue by whos criteria is the game not working as intended? Sure you can push SI to say "Yes the game isn't working as we'd like" however, given time constraints, resources and things to that general effect - when patch 11.1.1 was released the game was working as intended as of that date. Now, is the game working as intended by the time the 11.2 would hit - no its why 11.2 will come so that the game is working as intended by that point in time. You have to face up to the reality that it simply is impossible to have what you ask for, I play world of warcraft as well, now no disrespect to SI and Sega, but Activision & Blizzard as a pairing blow SI & Sega out of the water, in terms of financial resources, testing teams and development times (they release an expansion which is effectively a new game every 2 years give or take) now, you load WoW up now and its full of inconsistencies, misbalances and whatnot but as it stands right now the game is working as intended because its going to be better a bit further down the line.

Another activision (published) game, which has monumental amounts of testing put into it is Call of Duty, CoD2, CoD3, CoD4, CoD:WaW, CoD:MW2 and CoD: Black Ops have all been released with flaws in. CoD3 you had the fact that you could get out of the maps, like WaW, two persistent bugs throughout all 6 of the titles listed has been that players line of sight doesn't match up with their heads, at different elevations a person may be able to see you with their gun at waist height shooting at you (ie at least 2-3 feet of their body has you in sight) but you can only see a tiny fraction of their heads - the other is crouching, when moved whilst crouched your head will actually rise several inches however your line of sight doesn't adjust a single iota. They haven't fixed it still, and we're talking about 1 single bug that would date back to FM05 still being present which has a potentially massive effect on the game.

It's unfortunate, however, the best thing you can do to help is to post in the bugs forum with copious amounts on it, detailing it with several proofs. If you don't wish to do that then suck it up and wait until they get there in their own time.

Remembered this post from you not too long ago:

Firstly SI don't have an obligation to do anything but release the game they want. Secondly if FM don't, and can't, recreate ALL aspects of football management, that would be impossible. They can however represent what they think being a football manager should be like. Doesn't mean they are right, or that it suits everyone's management style.

So whilst you call for X, Y and Z - surely that is going against SI releasing the game they want.

[gmcker]

FM11 is okay. The bugs are not game threatening, though the transfer bug is a bit annoying, while the game runs smoothly. I also take the game far less seriously than a decade ago, so I still have fun fiddling with different challenges I set myself.

I would complain if FM11 was a repeat of Championship Manager 4. That version was dire, and I skipped the next year's release as a result. No version since has been as bad on release day.

[roykela]

He said "the testers they employ don't test the game, just play it". He has no idea what people do, and he's tarring some very hard working people with an unfair brush. I'm sick to death of people complaining that testers aren't doing their jobs without knowing what testers are doing.

I have access to the beta forums as a mod, and the ratio of bug reports to beta testers is much higher than the ratio of bug reports in the public forum to active forum members, even if you include random rants in the second number.

I will agree to that. I just tried looking a bit deeper than the generalisation that came out in the line. I know what you mean, and i'm not disagreeing, based on that.

I have absolutely no idea how it is in the beta forums, but i hope that the report ratio, compared to the general bugs forum, is miles higher. It should be. But like i said; i have no idea myself.

I understand that you can't really say too much about beta forums either, revealing whatever's there.

But i just thought that, if people have an opinion about something they apparently know nothing about......give a little insight in what you can tell.

Might be a bit easier to understand. Bigger chance you avoid people just continuing ranting as well.

Not trying to tell you how to talk to people on these forums......you're a mod, and i have a feeling you're a mod for a reason

But that's just how i would do it, and that's how i am trying to do it. So far so good.....i think

[homerjnick]

Please list the major ground breaking bugs that are in the game when it was released???

None.

Hmmmmmmm, this game was tested inhouse and by a group of dedicated FM'ers in this community and a lot of bugs were ironed out and I mean a lot...the game is completley playable from the box...

[edgar555]

Please list the major ground breaking bugs that are in the game when it was released???

None.

Hmmmmmmm, this game was tested inhouse and by a group of dedicated FM'ers in this community and a lot of bugs were ironed out and I mean a lot...the game is completley playable from the box...

See its posts that like this that just make no sense.

Major ground breaking bugs on release day? You mean like the Spanish yellow card bug and all French players banned from friendlies? Pretty major (the Spanish one especially).

It displays massive ignorance or no objectivity to say there are no major bugs.

For me the game is playable by dropping down the divisions and I've discovered new joy in the BSS, but I shouldn't have to drop down to play the game. I shouldn't have to wait to December before I start with Spurs again. I do, and I'm waiting patiently (unlike some) but its not what I would call SI's most glorious moment.

I do think it is disingenous of people who know little or nothing of the testing process to slam beta testers and I am glad that SCIAG has tried to put people right on this front.

[Martyr1777]

Please list the major ground breaking bugs that are in the game when it was released???

None.

Hmmmmmmm, this game was tested inhouse and by a group of dedicated FM'ers in this community and a lot of bugs were ironed out and I mean a lot...the game is completley playable from the box...

Oh that's insightful.

The fact that you said -GROUND- breaking and not game breaking is the most moronic part...

There are a whole host of bugs that were not in FM10... to some of us that aren't trolls this is why we are annoyed with 11. New versions should not go backwards in evolution and develop new significant bugs in old areas without extreme changes.

Don't really know exactly how much they changed with the transfer system and AI but I can't imagine they did that much to it. That's just the most specific global bug, I bet you haven't got a clue what league specific bugs there are and just how much of an impact they have.

[rancer890]

Please list the major ground breaking bugs that are in the game when it was released???

None.

Hmmmmmmm, this game was tested inhouse and by a group of dedicated FM'ers in this community and a lot of bugs were ironed out and I mean a lot...the game is completley playable from the box...

I usually defend SI when it comes to bugs, but there are bugs in the game alright. It's the least playable out of the box version I've played since I started to play FM (FM08). I was editing the game and below the 3.Liga they didn't update any of the teams in the proper divisions at all. I had to do everything myself.

There are more people whining about the game than previous years. The game is in a bad state right now, not unplayable, but there are major bugs.

[bigdanio]

I have never complained about a previous edition, I have always been a complete fanboy.

This edition is an embarassment to SI and disrespectful to all of us who bought the game.

Without question, it should have undergone far more vigorous testing. We are still waiting for the solutions to problems WE found in the demo.

[Blue_magic]

I think what they need to do is, once the testers have done their tests, the head guys should also test so maybe by holidaying which is simple or just playing a season or 2 not hard.

[Brian Shanahan]

Oh come on, no ones saying we are being forced to buy it or want people hanged.

Isnt this forum here for people to complain as well as praise SI, or because of the job they do and as we are only the customer we are not allowed our opinion????

Just because hes a moderator doesnt make him any better than anyone else. Im not going to agree with him just because hes using his free time.Its his choice.

And you completely missed my point. I'm going to be brief here as I'm well wrapped up and can barely move, but my point was that you ripped a poster a new rear end on the totally bogus assertion that he was wrongly slapping down valid criticism. What he was actually doing was telling a consistently rude and ignorant troll that he was stepping beyond the bounds of forum acceptablility, i.e. he was doing his job.

Now are you seriously saying that a moderator cannot moderate the forum he is tasked with moderating? Because everything you've said to SCIAG and myself is suggesting you are.

[edgar555]

I think what they need to do is, once the testers have done their tests, the head guys should also test so maybe by holidaying which is simple or just playing a season or 2 not hard.

Are you suggesting that no one at SI plays/tests the game? Cos that would be a bit mental.

[stokes_83]

They test the game? I would have never guessed. If they pay these "testers", they should seriously all be fired.

[edgar555]

They test the game? I would have never guessed. If they pay these "testers", they should seriously all be fired.

Posts 28 & 53 in this thread are relevant to you.

[Blue_magic]

Are you suggesting that no one at SI plays/tests the game? Cos that would be a bit mental.

No what I am saying is maybe they should pay a little more attention themselves than relying on testers which have been known to make mistakes in the past. If standard players can notice bugs which are obvious then why can't si? this is a great game but with flaws which i feel could easily have been noticed.

final thing their silence is deafening.

[edgar555]

No what I am saying is maybe they should pay a little more attention themselves than relying on testers which have been known to make mistakes in the past. If standard players can notice bugs which are obvious then why can't si? this is a great game but with flaws which i feel could easily have been noticed.

final thing their silence is deafening.

I'm sure they do test themselves is all I can say to the first point.

As for their silence. Do you really expect them to stick their heads into a thread like this?

They are responding in the bug forum to the appropriate well written threads.

They never respond to 'unconstructive criticism'. Ever. And you can't blame them. They'd be here all day and we'd never get anymore anything, patches or games.

[Blue_magic]

I'm sure they do test themselves is all I can say to the first point.

As for their silence. Do you really expect them to stick their heads into a thread like this?

They are responding in the bug forum to the appropriate well written threads.

They never respond to 'unconstructive criticism'. Ever. And you can't blame them. They'd be here all day and we'd never get anymore anything, patches or games.

I have been in the bug forum and damn they are silent on the transfer issue, If they were so sure everything is ok why not just say. Instead they leave us in the lurch not saying what they are going to do.

All anyone wants to know is are they going to fix it? I understand 100% of games that come out have glitches, faults or problems but all we want is a bit of information

[edgar555]

I have been in the bug forum and damn they are silent on the transfer issue, If they were so sure everything is ok why not just say. Instead they leave us in the lurch not saying what they are going to do.

All anyone wants to know is are they going to fix it? I understand 100% of games that come out have glitches, faults or problems but all we want is a bit of information

Neil Brock has said in a number of threads, including some in GD that must have made him think twice that they are aware of and are looking at it. We won't and never have got any more than that. Its not like Miles is going to pop round our houses one by one and console us.

[Blue_magic]

Neil Brock has said in a number of threads, including some in GD that must have made him think twice that they are aware of and are looking at it. We won't and never have got any more than that. Its not like Miles is going to pop round our houses one by one and console us.

Your responses are hilarious to be fair. I'm not expecting him to answer every message all it takes is a sticky about the main bugs saying they are looking into the problems or whatever they are doing

[Martyr1777]

I have been in the bug forum and damn they are silent on the transfer issue, If they were so sure everything is ok why not just say. Instead they leave us in the lurch not saying what they are going to do.

All anyone wants to know is are they going to fix it? I understand 100% of games that come out have glitches, faults or problems but all we want is a bit of information

Of course they are going to fix it... if they have time, when they know how to fix it without causing massive breaks in other areas, etc. Does that mean things will be fixed when players would like them fixed, of course not.

It's not about the testers, it's not about the devs working on the code. It's the way the industry and companies are run now. They probably knew about a number of issues before release but they didn't have time to fix them because the management don't want to delay release to have things working properly. After all why should they when they can just toss out a couple patches and people are still going to buy the game, bugs and all.

There's just a lot of stupid crap in the thread, finger pointing at SI, fanboys, haters... it's all pointless. This is how the industry works now and the only way it will change is if customers stop buying bugged products en mass, and that'll never happen because there are too many people that just don't care enough to want quality out of the box.

Just let it be known that testers and devs are the hardest working people in any software development department, I honestly do know from experience. Complaining about testing or bugs in the end gets pointless because the testers and devs know what the bugs are, but it's not always up to them to get them fixed. If people wanna get angry and point fingers they need to do it at SI/SEGA management, but that's just silly because none of them give a damn as long as the game is still making a profit.

[underwater sunlight]

They test the game? I would have never guessed. If they pay these "testers", they should seriously all be fired.

have you ever thought about volunteering to be a tester next year, seeing as you clearly know more about it than the current testers.

[Blacksquare]

The two biggest bugs could of been caught simply by going on vacation for a season or two. Players become irrational and you can't sell a decent player for a decent price. And all players want to leave their current club and you see Tevez and Cristiano Ronaldo leave for pennies.

[edgar555]

Your responses are hilarious to be fair. I'm not expecting him to answer every message all it takes is a sticky about the main bugs saying they are looking into the problems or whatever they are doing

Thanks. And to think I didn't even put any jokes in that post. I've been around these forums long enough to know how it works, and you will never get an SI response in a thread like this, and if you were to start one that they might respond to, chances are by the time SI see it some idiots will have filled it with nonsense and then they won't respond. See how that works?

They have responded and acknowledged the issues, why should they start a 'sticky' saying whats going on when the info is there and easy to find in the right spots (ie the bug forum, after all thats where bugs are logged, looked at, and acknowledged or denied as necessary).

Anyway back to your original point,

Why did the chicken cross the road?

[wally13]

Thanks. And to think I didn't even put any jokes in that post. I've been around these forums long enough to know how it works, and you will never get an SI response in a thread like this, and if you were to start one that they might respond to, chances are by the time SI see it some idiots will have filled it with nonsense and then they won't respond. See how that works?

They have responded and acknowledged the issues, why should they start a 'sticky' saying whats going on when the info is there and easy to find in the right spots (ie the bug forum, after all thats where bugs are logged, looked at, and acknowledged or denied as necessary).

Anyway back to your original point,

Why did the chicken cross the road?

You like it in here edgar i can tell

[edgar555]

You like it in here edgar i can tell

About as much as you do Wally

[wally13]

About as much as you do Wally

Ive been quite latley lol got a smack bum last week

[Matt ex SEGA]

Neil has stated several times that SI are looking into all of the key reported issues including player happiness and its relation to transfers.

Just because we don't always post - doesn't mean we don't read. And it certainly doesn't mean we don't care.

[Ter]

The two biggest bugs could of been caught simply by going on vacation for a season or two. Players become irrational and you can't sell a decent player for a decent price. And all players want to leave their current club and you see Tevez and Cristiano Ronaldo leave for pennies.

I've played nearly four seasons and Ronaldo is still at Real Madrid. I think Tevez is still at Man City as well.

[SmurfDude]

Your responses are hilarious to be fair. I'm not expecting him to answer every message all it takes is a sticky about the main bugs saying they are looking into the problems or whatever they are doing

As far as game developers go, SI are the most active I've seen on any forum, yet that still isn't good enough is it? It's been said umpteen times that they are going to fix it so what's your problem, Mr self important?

[tmonkey]

This is business. Unfortunately for us consumers, we have to accept that most of the big developers will release what are actually beta versions of the game labelled the "retail/final" version because it makes business/commercial sense, and not because they've reached a point where the core game is at an excellent standard and those bugs that do exist don't ruin/affect the experience. The main reason for doing this is of course because they want to release on certain dates, usually in time for holiday season where hundreds of thousands of people will buy video games as gifts/treats/because they have the free time/etc, and so the intention is to get the maximum sales in when they can and then focus on patching the issues post-release.

Again, it's unfortunate for us, because those of us who purchase for the release date usually end up disappointed with a product where some elements of the core gameplay are highly flawed, especially compared to previous iterations (e.g. transfer system as a whole is a mess in FM2011 imo). But we have no choice but to accept it as most other developers seem to have this development/release model nowadays. (I'd say probably Rockstar are the best releasers of a good core final game at present, although it wouldn't be difficult to find a fault with a release here or there).

[tmonkey]

Neil has stated several times that SI are looking into all of the key reported issues including player happiness and its relation to transfers.

Just because we don't always post - doesn't mean we don't read. And it certainly doesn't mean we don't care.

I'd respond by saying that just because we complain or moan, or even get highly criticial of the game or SI themselves, it doesn't mean we don't appreciate just how great SI are at developing a great gaming franchise that many of us love, nor do we fail to apprecaite that unlike many developers, SI actively interact with the community which is always great to have.

[tmonkey]

I've played nearly four seasons and Ronaldo is still at Real Madrid. I think Tevez is still at Man City as well.

In my game, Tevez was transfer listed about 3 times in 3 seasons for around £10m-£15m (i.e. at value). Not a single AI club showed any interest in him. Same for numerous other good players who request a transfer and are listed at an asking price that is the same as the player value, yet not a soul wants them (e.g. £3m Kaka at Madrid, £6m Varmaelen at Arsenal, £4m Naldo at Werder Bremen, £7m Darrent Bent at Sunderland, so on and so forth - there should be a host of clubs lining up for these players, even if it means the player might have to lower wage demands). Even had one season where Marik Hamsik was transfer listed for £12m for a long time (8 months), no club interested at all during this period, then after he gets removed from the list, Real Madrid buy him for £36m and on low wages for them of ~£50k per week (which was the only £20m+ transfer made by an AI club in 3 seasons since the game start) - why weren't Madrid in for him when he was available for cheap? Why weren't other big CL clubs after him when on the list? It's baffling.

Something is very wrong with transfers. I appreciate you might not like hearing this from a bog standard customer, but it should not have been like this at release because it feels like we're playing something that wasn't tested properly given how fundamental the transfer system is within the game and how it seems like you're only recently picking up on the issue after customers have complained about it.

[r0x0r]

There is a need when someone who is consistently rude and abrasive decides to pick on testers, very unfairly. I suppose it's okay to say "it should be tested better", though even then it's unfair to single a group out who a) can't respond and b) he doesn't actually know are to blame. I think working to sort out a piece of software for no reward should get you praise, not criticism.

Exactly. It's impossible for anyone outside SI Towers or an external testing team to say if the testers should be doing better or not. All we can say is that it should be tested more extensively... Something which I'm sure no-one will disagree with. There's no such thing as too many testers.

From what I can deduce, the issue this year is that the final "release build" of the patches should probably have gone through a longer test process. That would have meant delaying the patches though, so...

[George Graham returns]

People seem to treat major bugs the same as minor one's. I don't care what anyone says, older versions of FM were released with very few minor bugs and no major bugs at all. More recently FM is being released with an increasing number of major bugs that spoil gameplay and, in some cases, render it impossible. Something, somewhere IS wrong because the problem is getting worse every year, I honestly thought after last year FM2011 would be in a better state than this, but if anything there are more 'gamebreaking' bugs than FM2010.

I really hate having a go at the game because I certainly couldn't do any better and I think it has the potential to be the greatest PC series ever. However the poor state it's released in every year is making me feel like a beta tester for an unfinished piece of software.

100% agree- the most annoying thing is that this happens EVERY year. Every year FM is not complete until 3-4 months after release, so something is clearly wrong.

As many say- its not the testers fault, and I find it inconceivable that the transfer issues were not known to SI before release. But SI (and Sega) know that they have no competition and effectively a cash cow of a game. Si's silence about the transfer bug is daming- no apologies to a loyal fanbase as to why the game was released with such a game breaking bug present- and no messages to the fanbase signifying that a fast fix is immenient- as they will stick to their usual 3 patch plan.

Sorry guys (both fans and SI) but SI are taking the p*ss out of a fanbase that they worked hard to build up. Do as I did and dont buy FM until March. Hurt them in their pockets- as then they might actually take notice.

[George Graham returns]

Neil has stated several times that SI are looking into all of the key reported issues including player happiness and its relation to transfers.

Just because we don't always post - doesn't mean we don't read. And it certainly doesn't mean we don't care.

Fair enough- so why has nobody thought of posting a sticky relating to this?

What would it take? A minute to do so? Yet this is hidden in a thread.

After all- see how annoyed fans who are aware of the issues are. Now think about how the 90% who arent on these forums rate a game with a broken transfer system.

1) You guys should have ackowledged clearly the issue and also outlined your plans to fix the issue.

2) Stop releasing FM in an unfinished state as you have done for the last few years- the pattern of not having a finished FM till the next year is unacceptable. If you had serious competition the series would be in trouble.

[wally13]

Fair enough- so why has nobody thought of posting a sticky relating to this?

What would it take? A minute to do so? Yet this is hidden in a thread.

After all- see how annoyed fans who are aware of the issues are. Now think about how the 90% who arent on these forums rate a game with a broken transfer system.

1) You guys should have ackowledged clearly the issue and also outlined your plans to fix the issue.

2) Stop releasing FM in an unfinished state as you have done for the last few years- the pattern of not having a finished FM till the next year is unacceptable. If you had serious competition the series would be in trouble.

What and you thing other game would be relesed bug free do you ??

[RealMeanDigsy]

Seems to me every year theres more new features added to the game to make it better, but the most annoying thing for me is how many little bugs in the game that seem to be missed every year.

I feel if less time was spent thinking of new features and ideas to make it better and more time on testing to make sure its as bug free as possible would make the game alot more enjoyable

So should the demo be made available at least 1 month before the full game is sold or should the full version date be put back to later in the year.

Or are people happy to play the game as it is and wait for the next patch to fix the problems??

In my opinion the answer is yes.

Even if it is for just one week, get a dozen testers in, SI could afford the wages and the asset costs for this, these guys could do twelve hours of testing a day. 5 x 12 x 12 = 720 hours of feedback,

This is just an example, it would not get all the bugs, that's practically impossible. But it would help highlight the ones that really affect the gameplay and customer satisfaction. The end product being a (generally) more satisfied customer. FM currently reminds me of the new Fallout game, it is riddled with bugs, that developer should be shot for the sheer amount of errors. FM isn't nearly as bad as that, but it's a fine example of not what to put out.

That's a really boiled down version, there's many layers to insert, but I think you'll grasp the intent.

Kind regards,

RealMeanDigsy

[stokes_83]

have you ever thought about volunteering to be a tester next year, seeing as you clearly know more about it than the current testers.

Where did I say I know more about the game than the testers do?

What I said was the testers (if they exist) are doing a horrible job.

[rnickster]

As the cynic, Why spend all that money on testers when we as a community can do it for free once the game is released ? and yes.... that's a rhetorical question

[MrPompey]

The only way this would truly work is to open up restriced public beta testing as there are so many different PC permitations out there. Lets face it there will always be bugs in any software, however I do believe the current build of FM is more than playable.

i dont think its PC permutations thats the issue but the different game careers people can have in various leagues and the level to which they play the game. Many people are oblivious to many of the bugs and are happy for good reasons

[MrPompey]

As the cynic, Why spend all that money on testers when we as a community can do it for free once the game is released ? and yes.... that's a rhetorical question

Nobody else does that or do they? Who makes the operating systems for the majority of PC users?