The Real Arsenal (SI version)

[Lahaka]

Columns with free roles and holding up a ball are still out of screen. You can reduce width of column by clicking and holding left button of mouse/touchpad on the line between columns in first row and moving this line to a left side of a screen.

The tacic from screenshot:

Balanced, control, zonal marking, cautious tackling, rest on default.

GK/defend, DR/fullback/support, DL/fullback/support, DCs/central def./defend, MCR/box to box, MCL/central mid./support, AMR/winger/attack, AMC/attacking mid./support, AML/inside forward/attack, FC/adv. forward.

That is not possible. In my view I only see "Marking" with ticked boxes. Everything else is sliders. I cannot see "cross from" "hold up ball" etc. When I have tried to drag the width of the last collumn it just grows mega big without revealing any hidden columns. Any tips?

[James9]

I've tried without success developing a method of counting slider notches in team squad panel before I noticed that the main activity and maybe 80% of reading AI tactic is to translate players' individual sliders to roles and duties rather than team instructions. To make things easier I created this document:

Role's reader.pdf

I've cutted some columns to make this document printable and in effect of this editing you may ask why Defensive Winger (Attack) looks exactly the same as Winger (Attack), Ball Winning Midfielder (Support) as Box to Box Midfielder and Defensive Forward (Support) as Defensive Forward (Attack). The differences:

- Defensive Winger (Attack) holds up the ball and tight marks opponent, the work that ordinary winger doesn't do;

- Box to Box Midfielder moves into channels when Ball Winning has wide play on normal;

- Defensive Forward (Attack) tackles hard but on Support doesn't do this.

Hiya Kamil-S

I have just downloaded your Role's reader spreadsheet but I am not sure how to use it. I am assuming that whenever I pick a player i.e ball winning midfielder all i need to is adjust the setting as what it states on your spreadsheet.

Please let me know if I am missing the mark with this

[m83]

Hi Lahaka;

I had the same problem, i could only see marking in the team players that i wanted to emulate. So i went to my squad Tactics and from the menu "wiew" i chossed, for example, "cross fom", then i wanted again to "wiew" and go to "personalise" and chossed the option "make a copy of the current wiew", then i would go back to the team squad that i wanted to replicate and chossed from the menu "wiew", the option "personalise" and i could then chosse the copy of "cross from" that i had make earlier. I

dont know if this help or if i can make myself clear.

[Lahaka]

Hiya Kamil-S

I have just downloaded your Role's reader spreadsheet but I am not sure how to use it. I am assuming that whenever I pick a player i.e ball winning midfielder all i need to is adjust the setting as what it states on your spreadsheet.

Please let me know if I am missing the mark with this

Check the "debug"-view in the squad window of the team you want to copy tactics from. The sheet is just there to help you interpret which roles the sliders represent. You don't however change your settings according to the sheet, but from the debug-view.

[Lahaka]

Hi Lahaka;

I had the same problem, i could only see marking in the team players that i wanted to emulate. So i went to my squad Tactics and from the menu "wiew" i chossed, for example, "cross fom", then i wanted again to "wiew" and go to "personalise" and chossed the option "make a copy of the current wiew", then i would go back to the team squad that i wanted to replicate and chossed from the menu "wiew", the option "personalise" and i could then chosse the copy of "cross from" that i had make earlier. I

dont know if this help or if i can make myself clear.

That solved the case! Wonderful!

Obrigado my friend!

[James9]

Check the "debug"-view in the squad window of the team you want to copy tactics from. The sheet is just there to help you interpret which roles the sliders represent. You don't however change your settings according to the sheet, but from the debug-view.

Hello Lahaka

I am not good with computer technology so forgive my stupid question but could I ask how you debug - view in the squad windo

[Kamil-S]

That is not possible. In my view I only see "Marking" with ticked boxes. Everything else is sliders. I cannot see "cross from" "hold up ball" etc. When I have tried to drag the width of the last collumn it just grows mega big without revealing any hidden columns. Any tips?

Start changing the width from first column (counting from left of a screen) - for me it works but at 1080p there's no need of resizing

If you want I could make two separate views, one for general instructions and one for player's role only...

[Kamil-S]

Hello Lahaka

I am not good with computer technology so forgive my stupid question but could I ask how you debug - view in the squad windo

There are two separate things - AI's tactic viewing and reading/guessing players roles. To see AI's tactic you need modified xml file (The easiest way is to download this skin with my modifications). PDF-spreedsheet helps in converting individual player's settings (as forward runs, runs with ball, etc) to player's role.

[m83]

No problem Lahaka, im glad i could help. Im astonished that you could understand my poor english "wiew", "chossed", etc... I really need to go back to school

Kamil-S it would be great if you could then make two "panels", one whit the instructions team and other wit the PPM´s of the players, that would save some time, if its not of a big trouble to you.

Thanks.

[Lahaka]

m83:

Your English is not that bad. It doesn't matter if some words are wrongly spelled; it's still understandable. Your explanation was very detailed and that helped alot. The method you described is previously mentioned in this thread - in perfect English - still I couldn't understand how to do it. Yours, on the other hand, was very helpful and easy to understand. You are pedagogically gifted

Btw. Have anybody enjoyed success with tactics pulled from the AI?

[Kamil-S]

No problem Lahaka, im glad i could help. Im astonished that you could understand my poor english "wiew", "chossed", etc... I really need to go back to school

Kamil-S it would be great if you could then make two "panels", one whit the instructions team and other wit the PPM´s of the players, that would save some time, if its not of a big trouble to you.

Thanks.

http://hotfile.com/dl/108546074/3a31195/team_squad.xml.html (hotlinked from premium account)

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20060627/team_squad_xml

Just remember to change filename team_squad.xml->team squad.xml

Panel 1: AI's tactic #1 - player's position in tactic, mentality, passing, creativity, closing down, tackling, cross from, cross aim, marking.

Panel 2: AI's tactic #2 - player's position in tactic, forward runs, runs with ball, long shots, t-balls, crossing, wide play, tight marking, roaming, hold up ball.

[James9]

There are two separate things - AI's tactic viewing and reading/guessing players roles. To see AI's tactic you need modified xml file (The easiest way is to download this skin with my modifications). PDF-spreedsheet helps in converting individual player's settings (as forward runs, runs with ball, etc) to player's role.

Kamil-S I have downloaded what you requested, but I do not have any idea how to use the file or where to load the information. Can you give me a step by step guide please use how to use it. Sorry for all the questions but this is all new to me. I think when i get the hang of it will all become clear to me

Thanks in advance

[Lahaka]

Start changing the width from first column (counting from left of a screen) - for me it works but at 1080p there's no need of resizing

If you want I could make two separate views, one for general instructions and one for player's role only...

Sorry mate. It doesn't work. Could be a PC vs MAC problem (I use mac) or that my screen is too small (13") and do not support a higher resolution. Anyhow I downloaded your seperate views and that solved the problem. Great work! Thank you very much

[Lahaka]

Kamil-S I have downloaded what you requested, but I do not have any idea how to use the file or where to load the information. Can you give me a step by step guide please use it. Sorry for all the questions but this is all new to me. I think when i get the hang of it it will all become clear to me

Thanks in advance

Hello James9!

If you download the xml-file from either of the two links Kamil-S just put up, place the team squad.xml file in this path on your computer:

My Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2011\panels

There will probably not be a folder named "panels" in the Football Manager folder, but don't worry - just create a new folder and name it "panels".

When you have done that, start up fm2011 and go to "settings" --> "graphics & sounds" UNTICK the box "use skincache" and TICK the box "always load skin on confirm" --> Click Confirm and wait for the skin to load.

Next step to see the AI tactics:

Find the team you want to steal tactics from and go to their squad. Click "view" to the far right on the screen. If you have done everything correctly there should be "AI's tactic #1" and "AI's tactic #2" in the "view"-list.

[m83]

Lahaka:

Thanks for the compliment, but i still think that im miles away to actually have any "pedagogic qualities" to teach anithyng, specially whent it is fm related.

I have been using the AI Milan Tac (Home and Away), and use it as it whas 3 seasons, winnign national competition in the 3 years, runner up in the national cup for the last 3 years and beeing defeated in the quarters of final of the Champions League. So you can see that im not so "gifted" in Fm terms

Know i have been tweaking the Tacs and changed the roles of AMC to Trequ; SL to complete forward support and SR to Poacher, and also tweaked the defensive line, widht, tempo, time wasting.

I have been reading some threads to take some ideas and implemented theme in the game, just working on a certain style of play, moslty the Italian Way, but not satisfied yet of the result.

[JJ919]

Lahaka:

Thanks for the compliment, but i still think that im miles away to actually have any "pedagogic qualities" to teach anithyng, specially whent it is fm related.

I have been using the AI Milan Tac (Home and Away), and use it as it whas 3 seasons, winnign national competition in the 3 years, runner up in the national cup for the last 3 years and beeing defeated in the quarters of final of the Champions League. So you can see that im not so "gifted" in Fm terms

Know i have been tweaking the Tacs and changed the roles of AMC to Trequ; SL to complete forward support and SR to Poacher, and also tweaked the defensive line, widht, tempo, time wasting.

I have been reading some threads to take some ideas and implemented theme in the game, just working on a certain style of play, moslty the Italian Way, but not satisfied yet of the result.

Yes I've been doing the same. I've changed the team settings i.e. width, tempo, time wasting, DL and also changed some player settings like closing down, creative freedom. I also made it more stable in corners. I was dominating games in my Fiorentina save (in 2019) and for some games the opposition had 0 shots, 0 ccc's while I had over 5 ccc's and I had 70% possession. I thought this may be down to me having an ultra strong team (current UCL champions) so I decided to test with AS Monaco, predicted 6th in Ligue 1.

With Monaco, I no longer dominated games, maybe down to the fact that the players aren't as technically gifted but I still won Ligue 1 in first season (it did come down to the last day though if I remember correctly).

So, thanks to the uploader for your time and effort as it's been really fun trying to make "the Italian way" work.

e.g. Club World Championship Final vs quite a strong Santos Laguna side - http://img146.imageshack.us/f/clubwcfinalvssl.png/

70% possession and 0 shots.

And AS Monaco - http://img808.imageshack.us/i/asmonacochampions.png/

[Morrison7]

hi

i need tactic for England team

cheers

[m83]

Hi Lahaka, just one question, what formation are you using? the 4-3-1-2 or another one?i was reading that the Italian way was all about Rigid and zonal marking, but what his your interpretation of it? i mean do you use a deep defensive line? slow tempo? any tips would be welcomed...thanks.

[toon army 06]

Whatever toon army, regardless of how he has gotten the tactics, he has still constructively added to the thread in a big way. Tell me, what good have you contributed?

I have contributed **** all in this thread and your point is.

[toon army 06]

CapEm i say sorry to you now i made a mistake i hold my hands up.

[Kamil-S]

Hi Lahaka, just one question, what formation are you using? the 4-3-1-2 or another one?i was reading that the Italian way was all about Rigid and zonal marking, but what his your interpretation of it? i mean do you use a deep defensive line? slow tempo? any tips would be welcomed...thanks.

If I understand correctly he uses modified versions of those Allegri's tactics:

4-3-2-1 Allegri (home)

4-3-2-1 Allegri (away)

[Lahaka]

Hi Lahaka, just one question, what formation are you using? the 4-3-1-2 or another one?i was reading that the Italian way was all about Rigid and zonal marking, but what his your interpretation of it? i mean do you use a deep defensive line? slow tempo? any tips would be welcomed...thanks.

I've been focusing very much on the 4-5-1 by Javier Aguirre. He manages Man Utd on one save I have. Previously I have been focusing on Alex McLeish's 4-4-2 also on Man Utd, albeit on another save.

What I can tell you is that Aguirre change the tactics a lot. He even played a deep 4-4-2 with 2 defensive midfielders at one point. But the most common changes he makes are the two central midfielders. These two varies between adwanced playmaker support, box-to-box, sentral midfielder support and ballwinner defend. He also change one winger to inside forward or even have a winger on support depending on opposition. The lone forward is either an advanced forward or targetman support. His strategies are defensive, counter, standard and control. I don't think he uses an attacking apporach to any of the games. He also employ man-marking on all his players. His philosophy is fluid.

I've never tweaked the formation btw. All I do is try to choose the right strategy for each games and use the standard settings.

If you want I can give you more information, just be specific

[Abramovic]

I just downloaded that panel thingy so whoever did it, thanks a million

Does it still work with patch 11.3. dont want to update if it doesn't

[knap]

From your earlier work in this area the AI changed tactics on a reasonable basis, but it now appears that the AI are allowed to abuse the tactical side of the game by frequent tactic changes and employing multiple roles for players.

[Abramovic]

Its not really abusing the sytem as ive done the same during a match. Its just that majority of managers are too lazy to fix problems when they go wrong.

If my left winger is constantly getting better of their right back i will always set him as playmaker etc...

[John_Cro]

Did anyone see a 4-3-3 formation? It would be great to have it from some highly rated manager.

Thanks

[knap]

Minor tactical changes as you have quoted would be fine but the AI have the abilty to change tactics every say 30secs from just watching formation changes. Changing an advanced playmaker to ball winning would probably be an abuse of the roles. Frequent changes between defensive and attacking tactics would be an abuse of tactic changing.

[Abramovic]

I havent seen see that level of abuse, but ive seen the AI switch strategies after a game changing events such as goals

[knap]

Watch the formation screen when the AI go down to 10 men. When this happens there tends to be formation changes to cover the man down situation. These formation changes can be very frequent. In general AI formation changes are probably absurd going from 4 at back to 5 or single to twin forwards as the AI would unlikely to have players on pitch for correct role unless a substitution is made.

[Lahaka]

I just downloaded that panel thingy so whoever did it, thanks a million

Does it still work with patch 11.3. dont want to update if it doesn't

Yes it still works.

[...Eternal Sin...]

I need Didier Deschamps OM tactic on patch 11.3

[Kamil-S]

Watch the formation screen when the AI go down to 10 men. When this happens there tends to be formation changes to cover the man down situation. These formation changes can be very frequent. In general AI formation changes are probably absurd going from 4 at back to 5 or single to twin forwards as the AI would unlikely to have players on pitch for correct role unless a substitution is made.

AI's tendency to changing formations and strategies seems to be connected with AI's manager attributes and abilities. Less skilled managers makes more "unpatient" changes as an affect of statistics changing during the match but more skilled managers makes better and more accurate changes.

[yaşar]

Hello James9!

If you download the xml-file from either of the two links Kamil-S just put up, place the team squad.xml file in this path on your computer:

My Documents\Sports Interactive\Football Manager 2011\panels

There will probably not be a folder named "panels" in the Football Manager folder, but don't worry - just create a new folder and name it "panels".

When you have done that, start up fm2011 and go to "settings" --> "graphics & sounds" UNTICK the box "use skincache" and TICK the box "always load skin on confirm" --> Click Confirm and wait for the skin to load.

Next step to see the AI tactics:

Find the team you want to steal tactics from and go to their squad. Click "view" to the far right on the screen. If you have done everything correctly there should be "AI's tactic #1" and "AI's tactic #2" in the "view"-list.

ok I did the whole things above but ı wanna ask you one thing these settings relateded the player settings but how about the team settings ? Can someone tell me ...

[knap]

The problem with AI tactics is that they may be enhanced by constant changing of strategy and formations. Very often after I concede a goal there is a commentary that AI have reverted to normal style. The AI tactics may only be good if you can abuse the tactic set up.

[Abramovic]

Up till now this thread has ripped off, re-created several tactics and im just wondering if there is any analysis comparing them all. I really dont want this to appear as me looking for the best tactic but more of a what people thing works well, formations, etc....

[m83]

Hi all,

In response to Abramovic i have done three saves with the A.C. Milan Tac, both Home and Away, and what i can tell you his that the 4-3-1-2 works very well in the italian league, mainly because its there formation by excellence, but to be honest, its not so effective in the CHL, or european competition.

I had also wanted to know how others are doing with the re-cretaion of the AI Tactics in other competiton besides the Italian league.

[retslagoon]

Hi all,

In response to Abramovic i have done three saves with the A.C. Milan Tac, both Home and Away, and what i can tell you his that the 4-3-1-2 works very well in the italian league, mainly because its there formation by excellence, but to be honest, its not so effective in the CHL, or european competition.

I had also wanted to know how others are doing with the re-cretaion of the AI Tactics in other competiton besides the Italian league.

I used 451 for my Inter Milan which is Arsenal tactic. I know most Italian team use 4312 but for me, it's a decent tactic both of UCL and Serie A.

Look at Chelsea, do they follow most English Club tactic ? You're the manager so you can do whatever what you want with your team.

sorry for my poor english, bud

[Abramovic]

You're the manager so you can do whatever what you want with your team.

sorry for my poor english, bud

This is what im getting at, we have 3 slots for tactics so it allows us to be slightly more versatile than the AI when it comes to instructions. I simulated a season with 11.3

Arsenal won the league and won all of their home matches, whilst Man U had the best away from so, lets assume we have a squad good enough to play these that would take two out of the 3 slots. With the third being a cup match tactic as such

To get a best cup tactic, we should possibly simulate 3 champions leagues (full detail from start) and see what formations make it to the final or what crap team does the best

[retslagoon]

This is what im getting at, we have 3 slots for tactics so it allows us to be slightly more versatile than the AI when it comes to instructions. I simulated a season with 11.3

Arsenal won the league and won all of their home matches, whilst Man U had the best away from so, lets assume we have a squad good enough to play these that would take two out of the 3 slots. With the third being a cup match tactic as such

To get a best cup tactic, we should possibly simulate 3 champions leagues (full detail from start) and see what formations make it to the final or what crap team does the best

Yep but I tend to use just 2 slots because with the current slot is more beneficial for me to combine both of tactic settings.

Nice conservation mate.

[m83]

I dont know about your saves, but in all mine Barcelona always goes to the CHL final with a 4-1-4-1 formation, mainly due to Villa´s scoring and messi inspiration,

And yes, im the manager, but im really triing to replicate Milan type of play, and using the ME to see how they replicate it. but there are tones of varieables, and i also use the 3 slots tactics, whit a variant of a 4-3-3, whit 2 inside forwards, for my European matches.

[Abramovic]

I created a new game with the latest patch to test out my cup tactic theory and simulated 3 champions leagues. Results were as follows:

Season 1: Bayern (4-2-3-1 Wide) 3-2 Inter (4-3-1-2)

Season 2: Real M (42-3-1 Wide) 3-2 Liverpool (4-1-2-2-1)

Season 3) Real M(4-2-3-1 Wide) 2-2 Tottenham* (4-2-3-1 Deep) Real won on penalties

* = Benitez was in charge of tottenam season 3

[m83]

hi Abramovic,

So, from your results it seems that the 4-2-3-1 is the best formation for European cup´s.

It reminds me how José Mourinho managed his squad whit Inter milan, having one formation for domestic competition (4-3-1-2) and the 4-3-3 (2 inside forwards and a dmc) for CHL, i mean that having at least two differents formations would be recomended, what do you think?

[yaşar]

can someone put the shaktar 4-2-3-1 formation pls ...

[Abramovic]

hi Abramovic,

So, from your results it seems that the 4-2-3-1 is the best formation for European cup´s.

It reminds me how José Mourinho managed his squad whit Inter milan, having one formation for domestic competition (4-3-1-2) and the 4-3-3 (2 inside forwards and a dmc) for CHL, i mean that having at least two differents formations would be recomended, what do you think?

Ideally i would have run a longer experiment but i dont have the time, but yes certainly none of the teams played with more then 1 out and out striker. If i remember correctly Ferguson in recent years has always deployed a 4-5-1 formation away from home in Europe so maybe we're on to something.

Im trying to play like Mourinho with my Aston Villa side but i dont have the right players for the formation.

[JJ919]

I wonder if anybody could rip Vanderlei Luxemburgo's tactic? He's got a tactical knowledge rating of 20, which I suppose is justified given his success, and I also noticed people asking for a Brazilian 4-2-2-2.

It would be brilliant if somebody could do this.

Edit: My mistake, he uses a 4-2-3-1 now, and I was thinking of the Brazilian box he used to use at Madrid.

[JJ919]

This thread seems to have stagnated which is a shame as it's my favourite thread.

By the way, is it just in my game in which Steve Kean's Blackburn are doing brilliantly on 11.3? They came 3rd in the league 1st season and are beating all the big teams with results like 3-0 in the second.

It would be interesting to have a look at his 4-4-2 . .

[Clavin99]

Hi, with the debug view I can only see the player instructions? Is that all we are supposed to see? Or can we see the team instructions as well?

[Lahaka]

Hi, with the debug view I can only see the player instructions? Is that all we are supposed to see? Or can we see the team instructions as well?

That's all yes. Team instructions cannot be seen, but you can, by analyzing the player instructions, get a sence of what team instructions are. However the AI usually doesn't change much in the team instructions. All I've noticed is more caucious tackling and more expressive creative freedom. The rest is set to default. Sometimes it is just the creative freedom that is "tampered" with. What I've also noticed is that the AI change their strategy and rely solely on touchline shouts rather than changing team instructions. Also the AI changes the roles of the two central midfielders and strikers. Especially in a flat 442. I've seen Alex Ferguson, Steve Bruce and Alex McLeish (all of them managing Man Utd employing a flat 442) frequentley changing between advanced playmaker on support, central midfielder support, box-to-box and ballwinner defend. All of the four mixed up in different combinations depending on the oppsition and if it is home or away games. The strikers are usually a mix between advanced forward and deeplying forward support or targetman support.

[Charlie Lucky Luciano]

hi capem have you got any more tactics

[Ventura116]

I have a problem with the pre-season