AI Experiment - what would happen if?

[OrientMartin]

Just checking that the future of this thread is assured after the move to the new forum.

I'd hate this to get wiped, so Kip, if you're here, do you know whether it will get moved over?

[dafuge]

Originally posted by OrientMartin:

Just checking that the future of this thread is assured after the move to the new forum.

I'd hate this to get wiped, so Kip, if you're here, do you know whether it will get moved over?

This thread will move to the new forum.

[OrientMartin]

Yaaaaaaay

[VonBlade]

AI Experiment - what would happen if....

Someone got us all addicted and then disappeared for weeks on end

[Meitheisman]

Here's to hope that Kip migrated too and will be back soon.

[williamshankley]

The trouble is, If like me he had the forum on favourites. It will just say page can not be displayed. Perhaps it's time for the mods to email everyone with the changes explained. If this has already been done My apoligies.

[Meitheisman]

Oh I didn't think of that. Good call, I just checked and Kipfizh's e-mail isn't in his profile. Hopefully a mod can shoot him the new link to make sure he comes back.

[Morridin]

Think I have seen this in another forum...

http://community.sortitoutsi.net/index.php?showtopic=30017&st=0

[Mravac Kid]

A year and a half after Kip's one.

(And he does give credit to Kip for the idea)

Besides, I did it myself, as reported on the previous thread. But apparently FM08 doesn't cut down CA for youngsters in the database, as my San Marino players all have CA 200... making them unbeatable.

Which also makes me wonder how it will work in 09, whether the experiment will work like it used to.

[williamshankley]

Think I have seen this in another forum...

http://community.sortitoutsi.net/index.php?showtopic=30017&st=0

That is pure plagerism or however you spell it

[ljdzsgffk]

That is pure plagerism or however you spell it

Well he does give credit to Kip at the end of his first post.

Hopefully Kip comes back soon.

[VonBlade]

Shame his version of Kips experiment is about as deep and as welcome as a Celine Dion cover version of Voodoo Chile.

[chopper99]

Is Kip still alive? I've been off to Kenya for 3 weeks with no access to a computer and what do you think is one of the first things I checked as soon as I got back? Yep, the progress of the Bandits.

Unfortunately nothings changed since I went away, hopefully the new forum's not causing any delays to this, I need my fix!!

[se7en]

Long Time Reader - 1st time poster.

Wow!

U have seriously got tons of dedication and time on your hands.

Admiral.

KUTGW

[Phil Macklam]

Kipfizh where are you????

Hmmm, hope all is well with him as it will be four weeks since he last posted come this Friday. :-(

[williamshankley]

Kipfizh where are you????

Hmmm, hope all is well with him as it will be four weeks since he last posted come this Friday. :-(

Could a Mod email him please, to notify him of the change?

I know if you click on the old link on favourites it just says can't display the page.

[kipfizh]

Afternoon folks!

Panic not - I'm still around, the experiment isn't dead, and I found the new forums just fine

The only thing is - life at home is beyond manic, so I have very very little time, and that is unlikely to change for a good while.

So, I was planning on setting the Bandits to fast forward mode, where I cut out many of the report sections and focus mainly on the club, and not the former manager, team ability of the Premiership etc. The plan was to shoot through the years before FM09 comes out and it all starts again, but in reality it might just mean I don't slow down too much!

So, apologies for dropping off the face of the planet, but when I get a moment I'll be back. It won't be long - promise!

Cheers!

[williamshankley]

Afternoon folks!

Panic not - I'm still around, the experiment isn't dead, and I found the new forums just fine

The only thing is - life at home is beyond manic, so I have very very little time, and that is unlikely to change for a good while.

So, I was planning on setting the Bandits to fast forward mode, where I cut out many of the report sections and focus mainly on the club, and not the former manager, team ability of the Premiership etc. The plan was to shoot through the years before FM09 comes out and it all starts again, but in reality it might just mean I don't slow down too much!

So, apologies for dropping off the face of the planet, but when I get a moment I'll be back. It won't be long - promise!

Cheers!

Excellent News

[Meitheisman]

Ha great news, too bad the report isn't ready now I'm just about to leave for the airport and was looking forward to reading about our beloved Bandits on the plane... maybe on the way back

No pressure though Kip.

[small Mac]

I think thats a good idea to shoot though the seasons , we've learnt a hell of a lot from those other reports so i think they deserve a retirement now!

[ross8]

thank goodness its still going!, i don't know what i'd do without the bandits!

[The Lambs]

sad face, the gap to FM09 will be a long wait, it may also be longer while we wait for some one to create a editor that can be used to track the players statistics.

[5ergio]

Waiting the season we will domiate EPL with no effort whatsoever

[Rocknrollpear]

I predict Right Mid 1 will stay at 200 the longest. Some of these players may have been burnt out, from being exposed to too much first team football too soon...

Na, one of the keeper's defo stay at 200 the longest, followed by a CB.

Great thread btw, have you thought about editing the stadium so that it starts at about 12,000 with potential building space to make it an 80,000? That way they will construct as they rise the leagues and wont be a conference team that sits in the top ten of the rich list.

Also, sure people have meantioned but the CA would be better set to about 100 for first season so they may stay longer.

[markymarky]

does anyone remember, did the CAs waver at all throughout their careers, or only decline with age? How about with the nutcases?

I had a keeper who was maxed out at 191 until he was 36, and had only declined to 181 by the time he decided to retired aged 40. Pity that the keepers didn't hang around playing at the top level until their 50s.

[coldkohmew]

Did he stay in management?

[markymarky]

no! I was so disappointed with that one, since it seemed that every other retiree from that squad, even the young ones, went into management.

It's time to start building up some Bandits hype in the run-up to their return! League victory by 2060 with a Champions League triumph shortly after, is my bet.

[Meitheisman]

What would happen if?

Kipfizh never came back in the forum?

- Users would post a lot that they are sad and miss him and the Bandits.

- Users would officially complain to SI and someone would be hired to run and write up a new "Kipfizh AI experiment".

- Users would riot on the streets and Gordon Brown would step in and take care of the Bandits himself.

- Users would go to the European court to complain who would in turn attack China for stealing too many jobs and WWIII would erupt.

Hum... yes I'm drunk and still checking if anything new happened to the Bandits, is that what we'd call being addicted?

[5ergio]

Definitely Meitheisman And I won't see option two happening since I won't accept anyone other than Kip to tell the Bandits & the Sheriffs story (even if that means we get no story in 2009 as the worst case scenario) to be honest, but we can try the limits of the new forum servers with the first option for sure

[Meitheisman]

WWIII ffs. Drunk posting is brilliant. Haha.

[StewartJRobertson]

Last update over a month ago. I have been following this religiously for nearly a year but it feels like its dying now. Im actually upset about this. Im questioning whether i should just get a life??!!!

[snootyjim]

I reckon the Bandits should have the opportunity to upgrade to a massive stadium later on, perhaps up to something like 150,000, with the database set so that the fans would actually fill it on a busy day.

150,000 isn't ridiculous by today's standards, just look at the Rungrado May Day stadium, and it would be interesting to see how the board would react to the expansion of the stadium: if the cash was there to pay for it and the demand was there, how long would it take them to max it out to the full 150,000 expansion capacity?

[yugo23]

OMG, I have discovered this thread today, and spent most of the day reading it. I am still at page 20, my already beloved Bandits have finally reached European spot, and I am happy as a small child.

I am yet to discover what happened with this thread in last 10 months, but in any case big thanks for your efforts.

This is Footballer Manager at it's best - Factory of Dreams as I like to call it.

[kipfizh]

Right, I think it's high time I actually got back to this experiment, don't you?

Apologies again for the long gap, to say my life is manic at the moment would be understating things, but it's all in a good way Now then, we are officially in fast forward mode, so a few sections have dropped off the report so that I can get through them quicker and we can all see whether the Bandits are ever going to win something other than the League Cup.

Those sections are:

Premiership Analysis - Team Ability: I'll be honest, I'm not convinced by Genie Scout's rating of players, and for me, this team estimate tells us precisely nothing about a team. Too many times we've seen the Bandits decimated yet this rating goes up. So it's gone.

World beaters (by scouted rating): Again, this relies on Genie Scout's interpretation, and while this is okay, it isn't as good as CA. CA isn't everything, but I will still be giving screenshots of all the 190+ CA players, and we can judge for ourselves whether they're the dogs proverbials or not.

Ex-manager summary: Really, who cares what Ben Clayton's up to these days, the useless muppet?

World view - ones to watch: I like this section, but I'll be honest, it's the section that takes the longest to write. And in this late stage, we're used to player development and we care mainly for those Bandits. The real gems will make it to the world beaters section, the rest will miss out, I'm afraid.

World view - Distribution of 180+ CA players: This might be more interesting in FM09 when about 20 countries are on full detail. Right now, the best players are simply in the best leagues. Not very interesting!

The rest remain, so we still have:

Bandits report - Transfers

Bandits report - squad

then

Bandits report – Season report

Bandits report – Season summary

Bandits report - Best and Worst

Bandits report - First XI Summary

Bandits report – Outside the first XI

Competitions - Other stats

Premiership Analysis - Reputation

Summary

World View - World beaters (by CA)

And believe it or not, there's a report coming up once I answer some questions

Did you miss me?

[kipfizh]

I was thinking about Sheff Wed's domination and steady success, is it possible for you to check what their chairman's stats are to see if this definitely is the key the Bandits miss please?

I believe so. Remarkably, the Sheff Wed chairman is a 44 year old with a CA of 199! The managing director and director of football are terrible, but I would wager that the chairman is the key.

[robbo3d]

You have just made my day.

The Bandits are back!

[kipfizh]

I don't think it's been asked before, so could you please also post a screen shot of the Managers Hall of Fame. Seeing Ben Clayton win yet another CL made me wonder if he made it, plus it would be interesting to see what it looks like over 50 years down the line. While I'm at it, could you please also post a screen shot of the best French Managers too?

Very uninteresting I'm afraid - the old guard of Ferguson, Paisley etc still dominate, and none of those former Bandits make it. The French one is here:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4866/205758frenchhalloffamexz0.jpg

[kipfizh]

Another disapointing season.

Finally I was just wondering do you know who is the most expensive player in premership history, who bought him and how much for please kip? just curious, thanks.

Centre Mid 1, when he moved to Chelsea for 47.5m.

[kipfizh]

Question: Have any other teams from the Conference S/N got promoted into Premier League or Championship? It is interesting to know considering Bandits advantage from the start.

No, but Morecambe and Altrincham start in the Conference National and have both been in the Premiership.

[kipfizh]

Shame his version of Kips experiment is about as deep and as welcome as a Celine Dion cover version of Voodoo Chile.

For some reason, that really made me laugh

Looks like his experiment has died. Although admittedly, anyone who has been in recently probably thinks this has too.

[kipfizh]

What would happen if?

Kipfizh never came back in the forum?

- Users would post a lot that they are sad and miss him and the Bandits.

- Users would officially complain to SI and someone would be hired to run and write up a new "Kipfizh AI experiment".

- Users would riot on the streets and Gordon Brown would step in and take care of the Bandits himself.

- Users would go to the European court to complain who would in turn attack China for stealing too many jobs and WWIII would erupt.

Hum... yes I'm drunk and still checking if anything new happened to the Bandits, is that what we'd call being addicted?

I had to come back - I cannot have Gordon Brown running my beloved team!

[kipfizh]

Season 2057-58

Bandits report - Transfers

Transfers In

Transfers Out

Robbie Way had left the Bandits in a real state, and after he had finally been sacked last season, Alan McDermott was left to pick up the pieces. The squad was as thin as it had ever been, and some of the stars were beginning to get impatient. The summer was a crucial one, because if the Bandits were to finish in the bottom half against next season, those star players would probably demand to leave.

Summer

McDermott started the summer by clearing out members of the squad he thought to be surplus to requirements, and this included a couple of stars from the past, Americo and David Schweinsteiger, both now too old to offer football of the standard they used to.

He then decided to raise some cash, and disappointed the fans in the process by selling first choice centre back Graham Christie, who at 29 was at his peak. Liverpool paid 13.5m for him, and in fairness he did not have the best of seasons at Anfield.

The good news was the he was the only sale of the summer. Fans feared that a new manager might put his stamp on the squad by selling stars, when they were not enough to cope with any losses, but he saw sense.

So, on to the signings, and they began with 21 year old keeper Michael Machin, with a CA of 161 and a PA of 177. A real prospect, the kid cost only 230k from Dundee Utd, and looks a real bargain.

The next signing was at the opposite end of the cost scale, and was a familiar name. Four years ago, left winger Tony Harris left the Bandits to join Chelsea for 27.5m. Now 25, an England international having moved on to Sunderland, he is on his way back for 25m. A old favourite had come home, with his CA now peaked at 178.

Graham Christie needed replacing, so McDermott signed a 24 year old Serbian centre back, Slobodan Vujic, whose CA of 168 could rise to 178 later in his career. Costing 4.4m from Newcastle, he again looks a decent bargain.

Next is was 25 year old right wing back James Constable, to plug a considerable gap in the team, where Fernandez is failing badly. But Constable’s ability can only rise to 168, with it currently at 162, so he isn’t the star solution. A 5m fee to Hull seems a little overpriced.

One more name would arrive, and to everyone’s delight it was a 24 year old Brazilian. Joel is a right winger or striker, but those expecting a world star would be disappointed. His CA of 160 and PA of 172 makes him merely decent, probably appropriate to the 6.5m paid to Lyon for his services.

The fans were relatively happy. Finishing 14th last season meant that true stars were never going to arrive, as the club’s reputation had taken a bad hit. But McDermott had signed younger players, and only moved one first team player on. The squad seemed a little stronger, and lots of steps in that direction might put the Bandits back up where they belong.

January

Luigi Terranova was a 26 year old central midfielder who couldn’t get into the first team, so it was something of a surprise when Sheff Wed came in with a 6.25m offer, and less of a surprise to see it accepted. He hasn’t played well at his new club, and this seems like a great piece of business.

The Bandits have a history of making a profit on Kyle Cox. He came through the youth ranks before being sold to Wycombe for 875k, he was then re-signed for 1.2m before moving on to QPR for 3.2m, and finally two years ago he was bought by Robbie Way for 9.75m.and an average full back.

Now, the profit margins have gone up. After a season and a half as a first teamer, and with an average of just 6.76 in the first half of this season, the 27 year old was signed by Liverpool for an enormous 29m. The Bandits accepted this monumental bid, and for the third time, Cox moved on, ending up with the same 6.76 average for Liverpool.

Another man who had come and gone a couple of times was Adam Williamson, who looks fantastic when you see his 189 PA, but in reality he is nothing of the sort, the Bandits’ version of Maia, if you will. When Sunderland offered 11.75m for him, he left to the relief of the fans who had seen him play.

There would be one more sale, that of Marjan Mitrev, who had been at the club five years without making any sort of impact. Surprisingly, despite his lack of ability, Spurs offered 4.3m for him, an offer that was snapped up.

So looking at the first teamers, Cox and Williamson moved on, and both were understandable, the former because of a massive offer, and the latter because he was utterly useless.

The trouble was, McDermott didn’t sign many players to bolster the squad as many fans had hoped, choosing to add only two players. The first was 22 year old central midfielder Jason Horton, whose PA of 178 is excellent, but his CA of 154 means he has some way to go. At 2.9m from Bolton, he was a decent signing, if not one for this season.

The final signing of the season was Stephane Mathis, a 27 year old Frenchman signed for 21m by Liverpool at the beginning of last season. The right winger had averaged 6.11 then, and 5.50 so far this season, so the fans were skeptical about the Bandits cutting Liverpool’s losses by paying a considerable 9.75m for him.

Overall, the fans weren’t sure what to think. A few first teamers had gone and been replaced by other potentially decent players, and no real stars had come or gone. Was the squad stronger or not? Was McDermott going to be a decent manager or not?

[kipfizh]

Bandits report - squad

Top 20 in Squad (sorted by CA)

Name, Pos, Age, CA-PA

Harris, 25, 178-178 – new signing

Sadar, DL, 28, 174-174 (-)

McParland, GK, 28, 173-173 (+1)

Birchall, MC, 30, 172-188 (-7)

Rubio, ST, 29, 171-184 (-13)

Vujic, DC, 24, 168-178 – new signing

Griffin, DC, 31, 166-174 (-3)

Mathis, AMR, 27, 164-169 – new signing

Messner, ST, 29, 163-175 (-12)

Bossu, ST, 28, 163-165 (+2)

Johnstone, GK, 38, 162-173 (-4)

Constable, D/WB R, 25, 162-168 – new signing

Machin, GK, 21, 161-177 – new signing

Diane, MC, 28, 161-170 (-)

Boateng, D/WB L, 27, 161-169 (-)

Joel, AMR/ST, 24, 160-172 – new signing

Fernandez, D RL, 22, 159-174 (+2)

Horton, MC, 22, 154-178 – new signing

Dompig, D/M C, 32, 153-170 (-10)

Kolev, DC, 32, 150-153 (-3)

Players in last season’s top 20 who have left the club:

Christie, DC, 28, 173-179

Williamson, MC, 30, 171-189

Cox, AM RC, 26, 168-177

Terranova, MC, 25, 161-173

Mitrev, WB/AM R, 25, 159-171

Mora, AM L, 30, 151-151

Players in last season’s top 20 who have dropped out of the top 20:

Kastner, D LC, 33, 138-151 (-5)

Harris enters the list at the top spot thanks to Rubio’s demise, and the great pairing of Rubio and Messner are fading – between them they lost 25 CA points this season and will need replacing soon.

Elsewhere, there are a lot of players at or past their peak, with only Harrid, Vujic, Machin and Horton looking to stay around for a long time. It is a worryingly thin squad, and will become thinner in the future unless the older players are replaced effectively.

Notable others:

None

CA of X or above:

190 : 0 … 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0

180 : 0 … 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0

170 : 0 … 4, 6, 9, 5, 6, 7, 8, 7, 5

160 : 0 … 9, 15, 17, 19, 18, 19, 11, 15, 16

150 : 0 … 19, 21, 23, 25, 27, 26, 21, 19, 20

140 : 0 … 27, 27, 29, 33, 29, 26, 22, 21, 20

130 : 0 … 30, 30, 32, 35, 30, 26, 24, 22, 21

120 : 0 … 34, 30, 35, 36, 31, 27, 25, 23, 21

110 : 0 … 35, 33, 37, 39, 31, 27, 25, 25, 23

100 : 2 … 33, 39, 36, 38, 41, 29, 27, 26, 23

Here is a pertinent statistic. Four seasons ago the Bandits had a squad of 41 players with a CA above 100. Now they have just 23. That is not enough.

At the top end, Rubio fades so there is no 180+ player anymore, and the number of 170+ players drops as well. It is clear from this that with three or four injuries the Bandits will actually have to field or bench youth players with CAs in double figures, and that is not becoming of a Premiership club.

[robbo3d]

I'm actually quite confident that McDermott can bring the Bandits some success. Ok, he has left them a bit bare this season but he has been quite astute in his transfer dealings. The Bandits may struggle this season but the future looks promising. I just hope he holds onto his job long enough to see his transfer policy pay off.

[yugo23]

I think some things have changed in FM08. I just added money to Pro Vercelli (4th Italian league) in editor, and they easily got promoted to Serie A in few years (in all games I have played with this database). Their reputation is very close to that of the other Serie C2 teams, so it has nothing to do with them winning 7 titles almost a century ago.

Kip, don't you think it's the right time for you to share your initial database with us, so we could have a go and compare our results? I am sure we will get to some new conclusions in that way. Once you start your new FM09 experiment, there won't be much interest left to experiment more in FM07.

And VB, you'd better show up at some Mini Se7ens races soon than spend ages at SI forums.

[Sazchu]

I have a feeling this will be a mediocre season for the bandits which is quite sad since they have the finances to get any player in the world, but still lack the managers to get the club where it belongs, at the top of europe.

how old has the chairman become? any chance of a change in the board in the next few years and maby if we're lucky a proper chairman who can hire a proper manager.

[Young Jimlad]

I look forward to seeing how this season pans out. I agree that McDermott appears to have purchased decently, taken a couple of chances, presumably the hope being that those players who have potential to reach a decent PA have space to develop due to the smaller squad. Goals may be an issue if I'm reading the player decline elements correctly.

[crewe_york]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meitheisman View Post

I don't think it's been asked before, so could you please also post a screen shot of the Managers Hall of Fame. Seeing Ben Clayton win yet another CL made me wonder if he made it, plus it would be interesting to see what it looks like over 50 years down the line. While I'm at it, could you please also post a screen shot of the best French Managers too?

Very uninteresting I'm afraid - the old guard of Ferguson, Paisley etc still dominate, and none of those former Bandits make it. The French one is here:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4...loffamexz0.jpg

why are they all french??

[crewe_york]

Oh rite, didnt see that you had already said they were the french

[kipfizh]

Bandits report – Season report

August-December

The fans were expectant for Alan McDermott’s first full season in charge, and after a rare summer in which the squad didn’t get decimated, they actually had some hope.

The season began with a sequence of draws, a 1-0 win over Aston Villa being the only match in their first six that didn’t end all square. The last of the six was a League Cup game against Championship basement club Millwall, and that ended embarrassingly when a penalty shoot out defeat saw them exit their favourite competition early.

The shoot out seemed to take it out of the players, for after a win over Chesterfield they embarked on a four game losing streak, admittedly to some of the league’s dominant teams, which saw them spiral down towards the foot of the table.

November saw an upturn in fortunes, however, with four wins and a draw in five games removing any concerns about a relegation battle and pushing them back up into midtable. Unfortunately, this side is anything but consistent and a mixed bag of results in December saw them end the year in eleventh, comfortably away from the drop zone but distance from challenging for the European place the fans craved.

January-May

After McDermott was more active in the January transfer window, there was curiosity around the club as to how good some of his new signings were. Everyone was fighting for their place, and it seemed to inspire Messner and Rubio, who led the Bandits to an impressive 3-2 win over Chelsea in the opening match of 2058. A solitary Bossu goal saw off Scunthorpe in the FA Cup before Messner got the only goal of the game against arch rivals Spurs, in a match that, for once, saw no-one sent off.

Draws against Newcastle and West Ham held the Bandits in midtable before the FA Cup game against Arsenal. Any hopes of a cup run were dashed when new right back James Constable was sent off early, allowing Arsenal to cruise to a 2-0 victory and ensure that the Bandits had only the league to play for.

And in the league, the inconsistency was continuing, with them becoming the epitome of a mid table side, winning, drawing and losing four of the following twelve games. They scored in all twelve thanks to their continually potent strike force, but the defence let them down too often.

Nonetheless, they were in tenth with two games left, out of contention for Europe but determined not to finish in the bottom half again. A defeat to West Brom saw them fall to eleventh, but with results going their way on the final day, a win at home to bottom club Brentford would see them finish an improved ninth.

But the season was to take one more embarrassing twist, and Brentford picked up only their fourth win of the campaign, winning 2-0. Despite this, they finished 22 points from safety, but by humiliating the Bandits on the final day they condemned them to 12th, only a small improvement on last season.

The optimism around the club had most definitely disappeared.

And McDermott felt it. No-one saw it coming, but as soon as the season had ended he resigned from his post, leaving the Bandits without a manager once again. Soon after, they had another man at the helm, Cameron Banks, who actually looks a real talent.

His scouting abilities are top notch, as are his coaching skills, so perhaps he will sign and develop youngsters. His motivation and tactical knowledge are six and ten respectively, but even this is an improvement – it is common for managers of the Bandits to have a score of one for both.

His CA has peaked at an impressive 156, which shows in his abilities, and this makes him the second best manager in the Premiership, one point behind the Crystal Palace head coach, who led his team to an impressive seventh. To add to all this good news, Banks is only 51, so could theoretically stay with the Bandits for years. Expectations will not be high after two bad seasons.

Cameron Banks

The only warning is that he didn’t do particularly well at Sunderland, his last club, but before that he was a huge success at Cheltenham. Even his hidden stats look impressive, with a 15 for Buying Players suggesting he will give the squad the overhaul it needs, and a 20 for tempo meaning we can expect fast flowing football. His loyalty of 17 and his history of sticking with a club for years means he has the time to sort this club out.

Have the Bandits finally got their man?

Honours: League Cup (2044, 2047, 2052)