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Lennons 5-2-3 Tactic


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Hi Andy, Just thought i'd drop my two pennth into the hat on your tactic. Playing for Juve in 2013/14 season...Played 24 games Won 16, Drew 6, Lost just 2. Going forward the tactic is fantastic...What I found was that if I played my most creative forward in the cfc position my team played alot better (I played G. Rossi). I'm not to bothered about the tactic in defence at the moment as I have a very aged Buffon in goal who has absolutely no physical attributes left!!! Won the Italian cup with this tactic but overall finished 4th (The damage was already done with other inconsistent tactics).

That is what your tactic brought to my team...Consistency...Cracking tactic mate...

I am pleased that the tactic seems to work with a variation of teams. That had been dying in previous versions of FM where a tactic would work for Man Utd but hardly anyone else. It is NOT a plug and play tactic to instant success. It still takes effort from the user to get the right players in and manage them correctly.

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TACTICAL UPDATE

When playing with the favourate Tactic and you go 1-0 ahead, try switching to this tactic...

http://www.2shared.com/file/jfrMb6hG/Lennons_Fav_V1__Sunderland_Jan.html

It is very similar but i find i go on to score more goals.

I was playing against Man Utd in a second leg of the League Cup Semi-Final. I was 0-1 down from the first leg. When i went 1-0 up in the second leg i changed to this tactic and won 3-0. Similar has happened in other games. Never tried it from the start of a game though.

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Hi Andy, Your tactic is still going great guns for me. New season 10 games played and still unbeaten - 6 wins but 4 draws. The draws however have been mega frustrating with me creating a hell of a lot of ccc's. Now I know the ME stops you from converting every ccc but I was wondering whether you suffer the same problem? Have you considered tweaking the middle striker?

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Won my first trophy in the first season with Sunderland.

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Sitting 2nd in the Premier League but Arsenal are in first and they've played a game less, Chelsea are only a point behind us. So at worst i expect to finish 3rd which in my opinion is very good.

Not looking so good at Hinckley though, hopes for the plays offs are starting to fade. Not many points out but can't get the consistancy to stay in there.

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Hi Andy, Your tactic is still going great guns for me. New season 10 games played and still unbeaten - 6 wins but 4 draws. The draws however have been mega frustrating with me creating a hell of a lot of ccc's. Now I know the ME stops you from converting every ccc but I was wondering whether you suffer the same problem? Have you considered tweaking the middle striker?

Which team are you?

Have you tried swicthing tactics vice vera?

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I'm still Juve in 2014/15...up front I have Rossi, Benzema, Giovinco, Bojan, Demebele and 2x regen's all with good pace. I switch tactics as you suggested i.e. underdog tactic when underdog, etc.

PS. I have also tried your FAV+ V1 tactic. I went 1-0 up against Roma and it ended 3-0...brilliant.

If you got the strikers banging them in even more this would be the tactic of FM11!!!

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I'm still Juve in 2014/15...up front I have Rossi, Benzema, Giovinco, Bojan, Demebele and 2x regen's all with good pace. I switch tactics as you suggested i.e. underdog tactic when underdog, etc.

PS. I have also tried your FAV+ V1 tactic. I went 1-0 up against Roma and it ended 3-0...brilliant.

If you got the strikers banging them in even more this would be the tactic of FM11!!!

I've a couple of things to suggest. Switching to Fav+ V1 when a goal ahead is the way to go. Probably not advised from the start though as opponents will start to park the bus.

With players of that sort of quality i would say to look at who is missing the chances and increase his creativity, not the teams creativity though as this will effect the closing down. But certain players will react better given more freedom in front of goal. With the players you are using i am sure they will benifit. Move it up about 4 notches or so.

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Hi Andy, I have switched to this tactic from Mr. Houghs because although that brought me success the high scores were driving me crazy. Just following your simple advice and so far so good, a record of W:5 D:3 L:1 and that is while my team are getting used to the tactic. This tactic feels much more solid, and consistent, and realistic scores! Well done. Will let you know how the season pans out. Thanks.

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This is how season One finished...

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Pipped for the title by ONE POINT!

Still delighted with the outcome with hardly any signings at all.

Finished top scorers.

At Hinckley it was a lot harder, i was in and out the play-offs and only ended up back in after the final game of the season. One thing i noticed is that the tactic more so with Hinckley performed better against the top teams and poorer against the low teams. The play-offs were therefore easier as i was playing the top teams in each game.

Overall a great season.

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Absoloutly no idea how they manage in the Blue Square Premier.

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Hi Andy, I finished the season off and thought I'd let you know how it went.

I finished second, the same as last season, but this tactic just feels much more solid and reliable. I did win the FA Cup and went out on pens in the Champs League semis. So obviously all round a very successful season. I do have some very good players but there is definite room for improvement.

Couple of observations, against lower placed teams the Fav tactic works well and then switching to Fav +1 worked very nicely. But against top six teams, even if I am favourite, it seems to struggle. Perhaps that is a sign that I'm not quite at their level with players yet so I started playing the Underdog version. That works nicely.

Another thing - this tactic is so dependent on the central striker. Just to give you an idea with my first choice strikers. Carlos Vela on the left scored 11 goals in 40(6) appearances. Junior Stanislas on the right scored 7 in 26(10) appearances. And Danny Tuck in the centre (a regen I payed 9m for from Everton when he was 17, he is now 20) scored 58 in 55(1) appearances! Now, Tuck is amazing, he already has 7 goals for England in 16 caps but still. Wow, what a difference. Have you or anyone else experienced a similar thing?

All in all though very happy. Well done.

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Hi Andy, I finished the season off and thought I'd let you know how it went.

I finished second, the same as last season, but this tactic just feels much more solid and reliable. I did win the FA Cup and went out on pens in the Champs League semis. So obviously all round a very successful season. I do have some very good players but there is definite room for improvement.

Couple of observations, against lower placed teams the Fav tactic works well and then switching to Fav +1 worked very nicely. But against top six teams, even if I am favourite, it seems to struggle. Perhaps that is a sign that I'm not quite at their level with players yet so I started playing the Underdog version. That works nicely.

Another thing - this tactic is so dependent on the central striker. Just to give you an idea with my first choice strikers. Carlos Vela on the left scored 11 goals in 40(6) appearances. Junior Stanislas on the right scored 7 in 26(10) appearances. And Danny Tuck in the centre (a regen I payed 9m for from Everton when he was 17, he is now 20) scored 58 in 55(1) appearances! Now, Tuck is amazing, he already has 7 goals for England in 16 caps but still. Wow, what a difference. Have you or anyone else experienced a similar thing?

All in all though very happy. Well done.

I wouldn't have used the Fav or Fav+ against the better teams. I always go for the underdog tactic in those games. In away games against the better teams it may be advisable to push the time wasting up even from the start.

Yes i agree that even tough you play with THREE central strikers the middle one is far away most effective. The other two do alot of work but don't get as many goals as they possibly should.

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At Hinckley it was mission impossible in the Blue Square Premier. The board just have no ambition whatsoever. I don't mind that but i thought after an extremley unlikely promotion they would have released some funds if only for wages. But NO. I could not even attract any staff. I had one Assistant Manager, no coaches, no scouts and one phisyo. The players that were coming up as 'interested' were just the same as the season before and from the lower division. Even loan signings wouldn't come!

So i am thinking of starting a new game with a lower team that atleast has some ambitions. I will also look to experient with the tactic more to see if i can push it a bit further. I'm happy with it defensively, but i would like to get more control. Let me see what i can do.

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I have tried a few things over the weekend. One was to drop one of the Attackers into midfield to make a 5-3-2. I thought that this would help control the game in midfield more. Another was to lose a defender to midfield and go 4-3-3 but after much testing NONE of them worked as good as the original tactic.

So i went back to my normal game of Mission Impossible with Hickley and my dream come true of having Sunderland in the European Cup!

As i have said Hinckley are up against it straight from the off so i need to set my targets accordingly. I have managed to bring in quite a few players but the wage restriction means they are all quite poor to be honest. Every game i am up against it according to the bookies.

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After those three games i had one won and drawn two and lost none. Which is excellent - it proves the tactic works. With some slightly better players i think i could go onto another promotion. Just now though i'm happy to survive.

TWEAKS - Due to the odds and my team being underdog i start with the Underdog Tactic in each game but i have increased the Time Wasting. Due to my players lack of skill i can't be expected to match the other teams so i use a blend of Attacking and Time Wasting.

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i always wanted to try the 5 defenders tactic, actually what i had in mind was with wingbacks and AMC behind the 2 strikers, but this is working and mine is not. so lol.

i love the tactic, but is there anyway to convert this to tactic creator, the classic is a bit undetailed, i really love the roles thing in the new tactic creator. i feel more control in it.

thanks alot.

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i always wanted to try the 5 defenders tactic, actually what i had in mind was with wingbacks and AMC behind the 2 strikers, but this is working and mine is not. so lol.

i love the tactic, but is there anyway to convert this to tactic creator, the classic is a bit undetailed, i really love the roles thing in the new tactic creator. i feel more control in it.

thanks alot.

You can't convert classic tactics to the new tactic creator - nor could you create this tactic within the new tactic creator.

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Andy, your tactic is fantastic.

I am Cardiff in 15/16 season. First full season using your tactic.

Lost in League Cup final.

Semi's of the FA Cup.

Quarters of Champs League.

But...

Won the Premier League with this record ---- W: 30 D: 7 L: 1 F: 90 A: 25

What an amazing season, I was on a 34 game unbeaten streak in the league and was convinced I was going to complete the season unbeaten but went down 2-1 away at third placed Spurs.

I simply followed your instructions re: tactics, and went with underdog against the very top teams. Minimum pitch size. Ass man teamtalks. No OIs. Ass man team prep once fully blended. I'm pretty sure the key is pace. All my defenders have 15+ pace.

Thanks very much, I think I may have one more crack at the Champs League - I simply couldn't score home or away against Lyon. And went out 0-1 at home after I scored an OG!

Then maybe I'll try with a lower league team or perhaps try using it at international level with Wales. Now that will be a test!

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timcliffsmith: WOW that is amazing! Better than i even expected. I have not won the Premier League yet.

In my second season with Sunderland i'm going quite well but i got off to a bad start. But i qualified in but looked a very hard Champions League Group when i was seeded 4th. I finished 2nd. Next i have got Real Madrid in the knockout stage!

In the League things have picked up...

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Wales would be a tough challenge but you are rightin saying that PACE is the key. Whoever you consider as your next challenge make sure they can handle the pace.

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I'm really impressed with this tactic. I'm with Welling Utd in the BSP and this tactic has turned around my season and we will now survive.

One thing I really think needs changing are the corner instructions. I mean defending. I have conceded most of my goals from corners. Stick the two midfielders on the posts and have the defenders man marking with the DCL and DCR marking tall players. I would suggest that at least two of the front two stay up with the other staying on the edge of the area.

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I'm really impressed with this tactic. I'm with Welling Utd in the BSP and this tactic has turned around my season and we will now survive.

One thing I really think needs changing are the corner instructions. I mean defending. I have conceded most of my goals from corners. Stick the two midfielders on the posts and have the defenders man marking with the DCL and DCR marking tall players. I would suggest that at least two of the front two stay up with the other staying on the edge of the area.

I agree. I did think that because so few goals come from open play, instead they come from dubious penalties or corners, that it was just the AI of 'evening' things up.

Defending from corners is certaining something i would like to improve. - i will look to include your suggestions.

I'm surprised you got it to work with Welling as i found it tough a the lower level. It still can work but it does take a lot more effort.

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ASSISTANT MANAGERS - They DO have an effect on results. I have tried this tactic out with various teams and sometimes with the same team. For example: With Sunderland i have tried it loads of times. Sometimes i do really well and sometimes i get mixed results. The ASS MAN at SAFC is Eric Black and although his attributes look ok i can't remember doing really well with him at my side so now i always change him at the start and i have found my results to be more consistant. I was trying the tactic with Carlisle and i could not see why we were near the bottom of the League as the players had the right attributes for the tactic - so i dumped the ASS MAN and replaced him with one of my own and the results picked up immediatley.

I set my ASS MAN to do the TEAMTALKS and PRESS CONFERENCES.

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ASSISTANT MANAGERS - They DO have an effect on results. I have tried this tactic out with various teams and sometimes with the same team. For example: With Sunderland i have tried it loads of times. Sometimes i do really well and sometimes i get mixed results. The ASS MAN at SAFC is Eric Black and although his attributes look ok i can't remember doing really well with him at my side so now i always change him at the start and i have found my results to be more consistant. I was trying the tactic with Carlisle and i could not see why we were near the bottom of the League as the players had the right attributes for the tactic - so i dumped the ASS MAN and replaced him with one of my own and the results picked up immediatley.

I set my ASS MAN to do the TEAMTALKS and PRESS CONFERENCES.

I do the same and always make sure my Assistant Manager has 15+ for Tactical Knowledge (for socuting) and 15+ for motivating (team talks and press conferences). In the Premier you should get higher but being in the BSP these are good values for me.

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Has anyone noticed any difference since the new patch?

I wasn't even aware of the patch until i started a new game with Sunderland and saw they had an updated squad.

So i'm trying it with SAFC and AFC Wimbledon to see what it is like at two different levels. After the first 4 games my first observations are...

Started slowly and i was slightly concerned but is starting to kick in now. Both teams lost their first two games but have won last two also.

As you can see from this screen shot my defence is doing it's job properly...

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As you can see it says the defence is "one of the best units in the game". That is just with the same starting defence with no new signings.

From this next screen at AFC Wimbledon it compliments my teams workrate to close teams down...

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So i would say it is still working after the patch, if not better but remain patient.

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So with AFC Wimbledon the pre-seasons friendlys were great but they always are so don't take much notice of them.

In the season though, the York game was very poor, more bad than the score reflected. Things clicked soon after though. Overall we were predicted to finish 9th but are currently 2nd.

Won away to leaders Luton even though we were priced at 4-1 to win the game.

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What is OI?

I'm trying this tactic in South America with a humble team second division of Chile, the results are neither good nor bad. But do not put "team blend" nor referred to the "pace"

OI - Opposition Instructions. Opposition Instructions is a screen you come to after selecting your players for a match. it means you can chose to select intructions like close down, man mark, wrong foot certain individual players. You can select which instructions you want to use or you can ask your Ass Manager to do it. I chose to do NEITHER. If you do select any OI it will conflict against the intrctions already within the tactic.

PACE - Pace is the most important attribut full stop. It does not matter what team you chose to manage. It does not matter from whiuch League or Country. What does matter is choosing the right pace for whatever club you chose. Pace required for a team in the Premier League is different to a one in the Blue Square Premier. Set a level then use ONLY platyers above that level. Don't even use a single player BELOW that level.

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What would you recommend for the minimum pace for the English Premier League?

I would look for about 15 or over. So ALL players execpt the G/K should be 15 or higher. That is only a guideline though, for example you could probably get away with the odd player who has pace of 14 if you feel he has good attributes otherwise. But if you had a player in ANY outfield position who had for example a pace of 9 would struggle to work. A defender with minus 13 pace could upset the offside trap.

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Having said that i have just checked my Squad under the new database and i have noticed that i have one defender with a pace of 11 (Turner) and i have several players with a pace of between 11-14. It is working good for me so maybe those guidelines could be lowered. However i would still recommended keeping them as high as possible. I would also recommend at higher levels that 11 should be the absolute minimum.

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http://www.axifile.com?5875219

http://www.axifile.com/?8359071

http://www.axifile.com/?8342764

These links, if they work, are exactly the same as the original tactics except they are updated using the corner defence advice from RedBlueeagle.

So you should have, Favourite, Underdog and Favourite+

I always start with the tactic as chosen determined by the pre-match odds. However i do change occasionally if i think the chosen tactic is not effective. The Favourite+ can be used when leading. Only tweak that i sometime use is to push the Time Wasting up after the 60th minute when leading. But do NOT maximum it.

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Another thing i've noticed since the patch is that it is no longer the central striker that bags ALL the goals. Yes he should still be the leading goalscorer but in general the gaols are more spread out.

Here's my goals so far at AFC Wimbledon and Sunderland...

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Stephanie Sessegnon is actually being played out of position. He is an AM/AMR but i play him in the STCR position because although i get the red dot (out of position) his stats are well suited. As you can see from the screenshot he is performing very well. Both my left and right strikers have actually scored MORE than the central one!

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Hello again

The testing was in South America, with Everton of Chile, a humble team, almost like Sunderland, but the results are not expected, why not work?

(Res is PACE)

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Results:

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Despite the bad, there are good results, as ties with Chile's largest (draw vs U. Chile, U.Catolica, Colo-Colo, Audax Italiano). Against teams of similar level or below, the tactic does not work as expected (lost vs Magallanes, San Marcos de Arica, Santiago Wanders, Iquique, Cobresal, Melipilla, Antofagasta)

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Nanerley: I would suggest a couple of things. I can't see from the language which positions have the lower PACE ratings. If it's a keeper then it's ok. But you seem to have quite a few players that i would say are under borderline for pace. Also when choosing a tactic either home or away keep an eye on the first 15 minutes. If the opposition are getting good chances then switch to the other tactic. If their chances are long shots then just carry on. Keep an eye on players moral and consider this when selecting your team.

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My final observations on the latest patch are not good. With Both AFC Wimbledon and Sunderland i hit a streak where i just could not buy a win no matter what. It happened with BOTH teams at exactly the same time... Hmmm?

I rarely lost but drew loads of games. If i scored a goal the opponents seemed to pull off a long shot. This happened against BOTH teams.

Lucily though when you start up a new game you can select which patch to use so i recommend the previous one for this tactic, 11.2 i think?

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I agree with Andy, I started a new game on the new patch 11.3, I started as liverpool and the performances were very poor, That said the tactic is very good. Its patch 11.3 which is the problem, Still seems to be riddled with so many bugs which in my opinon take the fun out of the game and make it almost unplayable. From not recording goals scored in europe, To strikers not being able to score from headers.

So im gonna start a new game on 11.2.

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I agree with Andy, I started a new game on the new patch 11.3, I started as liverpool and the performances were very poor, That said the tactic is very good. Its patch 11.3 which is the problem, Still seems to be riddled with so many bugs which in my opinon take the fun out of the game and make it almost unplayable. From not recording goals scored in europe, To strikers not being able to score from headers.

So im gonna start a new game on 11.2.

You'll need to reinstall the game and install the 11.2 patch. However if you're using Steam, I don't think it's possible.

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You'll need to reinstall the game and install the 11.2 patch. However if you're using Steam, I don't think it's possible.

I have just discovered you are right. Although you choose 11.2 it is JUST the database but the patch still loads. So when you goto 'detail' it shows you are using 11.3 got to say i don't like 11.3 so if i don't find away around it i won't use it.

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