Redfish Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Hey guys. I've always wondered about the importance of pace in centre backs. I found a Regen called Lars Koning who had 20 Pace, 20 Acceleration, 19 Agility and 18 Balance. Truly awesome physical stats I'm sure you'd agree. I would post a picture but unfortunately I'm on a new machine. His Tackling is 9, jumping 11, heading 5, strength 10 and his positioning and anticipation a meagre 12 each(Considering I was challenging for honours). I just wanted to share my experience that he proved to be an incredible defender. He won world defender of the year at 21 and became probably the best defender in the world. His stats have not risen from what I described. Has anyone else found that pace and power but a lack of any real technical or mental skill makes for good defenders at the highest level? I know strikers can be physical monsters and be successful but wasn't sure that pure pace and agility made for good defenders. But it did. I'm curious to your thoughts, and the best tactics (generalised, not interested in wonder tactics) to use for fast hard working defenders. I didn't do anything special with Mr Koning, just let him maraud around the back as a bog-standard centre back. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
footballmanager84 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 If he's young he could still develop into an awesome covering defender, if his anticipation improves. With pace like that, he could easily sweep up misplaced passes and through balls. Let your tougher, more aggressive defender be the stopper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank327 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 It depends on how you play. If you play with a really high defensive line and an offside trap, then a defender like that will be a godsend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 It depends on how you play. If you play with a really high defensive line and an offside trap, then a defender like that will be a godsend. Not really it would be suicide if he didn't have the right concentration, teamwork, anticipation and so on. Regardless of how fast he maybe. Pace and acceleration are the most 2 overrated attributes on the game in my opinion. And despite what people think pace and acceleration don't make up for lack of other attributes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arianyr Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I love pace and acceleration in my defenders. I wouldn't take them if they were poor in other defensive areas, but i would take 15 marking and tackling and being really fast over 18 marking and tackling and being average fast any day. Cleon is right in saying that they won't make up for lack of other attributes completely but for the right player (and the right playing style) it can really make a difference. Especially with my defenders I have noticed that a short lapse in concentration or being outnumbered can lead to a through ball where the defender can't catch up and then has to commit a foul resulting in a sending off (almost all red cards i have are like that. no players losing their mind or something). If they are fast they can still recover if they are fast. Of course, this is often due to me being 2v2 at the back and any mistake is punished, but with fast defenders I can afford to go 2v2 at the back and have a player free up front. Nowadays I consider pace to be critical for at least one of my defenders. When playing with two basic central defender/defend players you can quickly overlook that and go with the 'standard' defender: technically and mentally good, as well as strength and jumping... but average or below average speed. Playing with a stopper and cover does well to remind you that you should try and get a speedy player there. At the higher levels this becomes more important I believe because if you're big favourites you'll be pushing up and you'll be weaker against long balls and strikers and wingers. The other way around, if you are underdogs I find pace more important for wingers and strikers because they will have space to exploit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFraser Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I love pace and acceleration in my defenders. I wouldn't take them if they were poor in other defensive areas, but i would take 15 marking and tackling and being really fast over 18 marking and tackling and being average fast any day. Cleon is right in saying that they won't make up for lack of other attributes completely but for the right player (and the right playing style) it can really make a difference. I am the complete opposite, I vastly prefer defensive intelligence to Acceleration and Pace in my Centrebacks. No quantity of Acceleration and Pace can make up for superior defensive intelligence and the ability to organise and defend as a unit effectively. No amount of pace will ever recover from a mistake around the box. I use pace in the players around my centrebacks, my fullbacks and atleast one of my CM's as pace is a great bonus to get back quickly and join in defending, but for those players that are always back and always defending I will accept nothing other than the best defensive intelligence I can afford. Pace is a luxury in Centrebacks, Concentration, Positioning, Strength, Anticipation, Tackling, Marking and Jumping are necessities. The first four attributes I look for are Anticipation, Positioning, Strength and Tackling. This is the ability to read the game quickly, the ability to take up the best position to deal with the threat, the ability to compete and win physical challenges and the ability to effectively tackle technical challenges. These four attributes are the essentials in a Centreback for me. While those are the crucial attributes, a Centreback is a predominately mental player where weaknesses in mental attributes will cost goals. High levels of Aggression, Bravery, Concentration, Composure, Decisions, Determination, Teamwork and Workrate are all highly desirable and even essential if you want to play consistently well at the top levels. A genuinely mentally superior Centreback is a much bigger player for your team than simply a defensive rock. High levels for Composure and Decisions means potentially dangerous longballs into the channels for a pacey striker to chase are calmly knocked backed to the keeper, that wild clearances from the opposition as you park your team in their half are knocked first time straight to the nearest open attacking player. Combine this to high levels for Teamwork and Aggression and you will find that when the opposition try to build slowly through your midfield looking to establish a slight numerical superiority your Centreback will wait for the ideal moment before sprinting out from his defensive position to bulldoze clean through the midfielder on the ball waiting for options. Mentally superior Centrebacks are not simply great defenders that hold and excellent line and make few mistakes, they are players that completely understand the defensive situation and take command of it. Without needing to split mentalities and closing down instructions they will automatically press and cover as a unit simply because that is the best way to defend the current situation. Without needing to crank up mentality and closing down one Centreback will automatically charge into position level with your DM's/CM's and win the ball, because that is the best way to defend the current situation. Forget about Pace in your Centrebacks, what matters is only that you sign the smartest, toughest Centrebacks you can afford and you make sure you support them intelligently. Pacey Fullbacks, Intelligent and Strong midfielder that can slot in at Centreback if the opponent tries to overload you, a Goalkeeper with good organisational and communication skills. Do this and your defence changes from being a line of four players with strengths and weaknesses to a line of heroes that do things far beyond anything you thought you could instruct them to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage94 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Pace in my opinion is key depending on how high your defensive line is. If you play a very deep defensive line and look to get men behind the ball then I would be comfortable in playing the quite sluggish David Weir at centre back and feel quiet safe. If however you play a high pressing and high D-Line game, then I wouldn't feel so confident in playing a sluggish centre back. As SFraser has said above, mental attributes (particularly Anticipation, Positioning and Concentration in my opinion) are more important, but pace in a centre back is never a bad thing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aLlamaWithARifle Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I've always found that good physical stats always help the player excel in what ever position he plays, as if physical stats are more important than technical. A player with great mental and great physical stats tend to be brilliant players regardless of their technical stats or at least in my experience Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojojojo101 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Obviously technical stats are important however I tend to rely mainly on technical and mental attributes for my players. Football isn't just about who is the strongest/quickest but, in my humble opinion, more about intelligence and being able to read the game, no amount pace will help an attacker if the defender is constantly 3 steps ahead of him. To OP: Im suprised someone with such low technical defensive abilities was THAT good, personally I wouldn't even have played him at CB, may have moved him to a FB or WB role, depending on his attacking stats ofc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralTen Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Well. If a striker gets past with enough momentum they probably won't catch him anyway - unless your defenders are absolute monsters in terms of speed. With this in mind I agree with Cleon about other attributes being the highest priority when there's a lot of space behind your back four. I've had players like Jamie Carragher - who's not at all a quick player these days - exceed in a high defence simply because he got the awareness to basically never get caught on the wrong side of his opponent (well, in the game anyway ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ljuba82 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 It's something related to code of FM. Pace is mosr important attribute in FM, it takes most CA points, especialy for strikers and wingers, but it's also most important for defenders. I'm not sure if that is true in real life, but in FM it is!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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