Total Football: Tic-Tac Magick

[dannytjuh]

People who tried this tactic in fm2012?

[dan99]

I'm using Barkermush's version with Liverpool. Getting pretty much the same results. Won't be on my computer for a week so I can't post any SS till next monday.

[Flohrinho]

People who tried this tactic in fm2012?

Since the ME is still the same as with 11.3 apart from the graphics it should still work.

[McAvennie]

Yup, still the same. And still excellent.

[Barkermush]

Yeah my version is still working for me on FM12, I won the League Cup with Sunderland in my first season and finished 10th in the Premier League.

Still dominating possession like on FM11.

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

Hey guys,

Glad to see the tactic is still going strong

Unfortunately, I can't reactivate my Realmadrid_2007 account. The email address I was using must have expired ages back (It was a yahoo email), so when they say they are sending a new password to my account, I can't get it!

Anybody got any ideas, or know anybody I can contact to sort this?

Anyways, I started a new contract 4 months ago in NI and I literally have no real spare time; hence the reason I haven't been around. I've done 1/3 of the 3rd season and I'm continuing to have success. I'm trying to rejuvinate my squad with younger players, as I find the older players struggle with this tactic (my guess is the decrease in physical attributes, most notably Pace/Acceleration/Stamina).

I've been playing around with the Tempo and Time Wasting; here's what I've been using:

Tempo: 4 (3 clicks)/\Time Wasting: 4 (3 clicks) == used when the opposition isn't pressing (usually 80% of the time due to me being the biggest team in the wrold in my game). Build-Up play

Tempo: 10 (9 clicks)/\Time Wasting: 10 (9 clicks) == used when opposition is pressing heavily. I try to move the ball around quick to break through, but also have a bit more Time Wasting so that we don't get too tired. I guess this is the equivalent of a Counter Attacking version.

Tempo: 7 (6 clicks)/\Time Wasting: 7 (6 clicks) == standard play. I usually use this during games in which I'm not sure how the opposition is going to play. Most often though I use the Buil-Up play.

These are the three main Tempo and Time Wasting variations I use. I no longer try to get into the "upper-half" (11-21) of the sliders with these, as I'm trying not to break too far away from the rules with regards to short passing/low tempo, etc. I find the tactic is more efficient when the Tempo is in the "lower-half" (1-10).

Ok, this was a rushed post because I've got to go get food

I'll try and come on more in the evnings, but I'm not playing the game much so I'm not sure if I'll be much use.

P.S. Glad it's working on FM12.

[Gee_Simpson]

Good to hear from you again mate! Welcome back.

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

Good to hear from you again mate! Welcome back.

Cheers Gee. It seems to be working pretty well on FM12. I'm liking the new player interaction and team meetings

[olie87]

i have had fantastic results with this on FM12. few tweaks but kept 14 consecutive clean sheets. possesion on average 60/65%. restricting teams to long shots and creating chances the other end. great tactic. used this on FM11 too. well done mate

[someguyvoom]

can you upload tweaks and show screenshot and explain

[dannytjuh]

I'm trying this tactic now with dortmund but have a question.

When you want to buy a new player do you use the filter? Because i use the filters but i still having problems with finding the right player....

Lets see the playmaker (xavi) and the att midfielder (Iniesta) positions. Where do you look at?

[dan99]

I'm trying this tactic now with dortmund but have a question.

When you want to buy a new player do you use the filter? Because i use the filters but i still having problems with finding the right player....

Lets see the playmaker (xavi) and the att midfielder (Iniesta) positions. Where do you look at?

I don't use filters since it's pretty much common sense.

[Christopher Cox]

I had great success with MAGiCK_FOOTBALL's 4-3-3 on FM11 and to begin with on FM12.

I won everything with Wimbledon and managed two successive promotions with Berwick Rangers. The method I used just involved adjusting the time wasting slider depending on the time of the game and the score. However, I've started managing abroad and neither the original tactic nor Barkermush's tactic seem to be working, it's something I've noticed since 12.0.4 was released. Anyone else having similar problems?

I'm playing as Sarpsborg, tipped to finish bottom of the Norwegian top flight, who don't have a bad team by all accounts, but I'm getting screwed by everyone.

[RamonRlc]

i'm using with dortmund too, to mcl i used milan badelj and ilkay gundogan as mcr.

u can try aaron ramsey as mcr.

[Guest]

Excellent tactic and explanation, really appreciated.

Been using it in a long term FM11 save and much success, latest season best yet (so far ;-).

Mid-Feb in all competitions;

Won 39

Drawn 1

Lost 1

Liga BBVA W20 D0 L1 F78 A7

Champions League Group stage W6 D0 L0 F28 A2

Spanish Cup W7 D1

Won Club World, Super Cup and Euro Super Cup with reserve string/youngsters

Really like the fact you've adapted Barcas style slightly to cope with the Match Engine anomalies. The low mentality CM is a great idea and as you say gets the MCr and MCl supporting the wide players.

Some suggestions that have worked for me;

Set the Striker to a free role as well as the playmakers and AML/R, is working a treat for me.

Set full backs to mixed crossing and cross from mixed and team crossing to drill crosses. Gives and extra dimension. Most crosses are low and driven which is on the rare crossing occasion Barcas style.

I've have a home and away version as per the original tactic.

Additionally a hold on to lead/deal with tough match variant that has slightly narrower width, mentalities reduced by two clicks from the away version, full backs on FWDR rarely and counter attack.

Then a winter variant of each home / away / counter with passing increased by 2 or 3 clicks across the piece. This ones for poor conditions and pitches.

PPM's

I've trained all the playmakers, AML/R's, and strikers to 'play one twos'. Seems to work a treat.

Defenders and DM's 'play simple balls'

Playmakers 'play killer balls often' - this may contradict the mixed through ball setting ?

Striker 'move into channels'

Strikers / AMLR - 'place shots', 'round keeper' - these based on player having relevant technique, flair, finishing, composure etc.

AML/R's 'cut inside' and 'get forward whenever possible' - again may contradict team instructions of wide play 'normal' and mixed FWDRs but seems to suit, still one of my wide forwards will not untrain 'comes deep to get the ball' and he's doing just fine

I tend to think of the PPM's as training a player to carry out specific moves successfully rather than override player instructions. The fact some players fail to train in a PPM suggests the PPM training is at least as much about the player learning a skill (PPM) as being taught to actually carry out that skill.

Three tempos get trained via my match preparation tactics - slow / medium / fast. Tweak these in game as per the original post to deal with heavy pressing, sitting deep or mixed from the oppo. The fast with varying time wasting settings works very well for me if oppo is pressing .

cheers

Edit: Realised I'd been playing without focus passing through centre - adjusted this and set full backs to rarely cross ball and results even better.

[oneskyride]

anyone else still using this tactic in FM12 ? i'm having great succes with it managing arsenal with the Home tactic.

[Flashheart]

I'm still using Bakermush's (sp?) version in FM12, out of all the tactics I've downloaded it's still given me the best and most consistent results, both with good and poor teams. Defensively the tactic is amazing, I always concede the least amount of goals in whatever league I'm in. Usually dominate possesion as well, most of the game is played in the oppositions half. The only criticism I have is I sometimes struggle to score goals and create lots of CCC's. Excellent post Headcoat by the way, I took a few of your suggestions on board and they seem to work well. I'd love to know how to tweak the tactic to make my team more threatening in attack, especially when I'm behind and chasing a goal or two.

[vintage75020]

someone have the link for the tactic ?

[UPNATEM]

went back to to this tactic and it is working as good as ever on FM12! Have a Bayern save who yes have a class team but I have still got great results when Robben, Ribery, Gomez etc have been rested.. here are some screenies I will probably test the tactic (minor tweaks to the home version) with smaller teams possibly Swansea as they play good possession football too. Anyway some of the football is sensational to watch and I actually feel like cheering passes when playing keep ball while 3-0 up with 10 minutes to go here are some screenies..

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

As said before yes Bayern are a great team but are they 7 goals better than AC Milan?! It is basically the original squad too, only addition is Douglas (DC) from Twente.

[asus]

upnatem can you put the link please?

[Guest]

linky is on first page of this thread in the original post....the last version i think was the home + away update.

been tweaking a bit this end and am shortly starting a new season with following changes:

- DM moved back to DM starting position with mentality increased by two

- AML/R set to move into channels

- AML/R set to forward run often - want to see if I can get them moving beyond the striker a little more

Been steaming the liga bbva with many 5-0 and above wins. 65 games unbeaten in league now.

Champions league have lost the final last two seasons but think this is more down to relative inexperience of my squad and lack of a top notch leader/captain than anything else.

Having said that re. captain I am wondering if when playing top notch teams especially in Europe if it might be worth having a counter attacking tactic to revert to at times...if the oppo press high up the ptich, tackle heavily and attack themselves I can struggle..

[oneskyride]

linky is on first page of this thread in the original post....the last version i think was the home + away update.

been tweaking a bit this end and am shortly starting a new season with following changes:

- DM moved back to DM starting position with mentality increased by two

- AML/R set to move into channels

- AML/R set to forward run often - want to see if I can get them moving beyond the striker a little more

Been steaming the liga bbva with many 5-0 and above wins. 65 games unbeaten in league now.

Champions league have lost the final last two seasons but think this is more down to relative inexperience of my squad and lack of a top notch leader/captain than anything else.

Having said that re. captain I am wondering if when playing top notch teams especially in Europe if it might be worth having a counter attacking tactic to revert to at times...if the oppo press high up the ptich, tackle heavily and attack themselves I can struggle..

I suppose you're managing barca ? how's possession with your new tweaks ? Did it drop ? and you're using the Home tactic, right ?

went back to to this tactic and it is working as good as ever on FM12! Have a Bayern save who yes have a class team but I have still got great results when Robben, Ribery, Gomez etc have been rested.. here are some screenies I will probably test the tactic (minor tweaks to the home version) with smaller teams possibly Swansea as they play good possession football too. Anyway some of the football is sensational to watch and I actually feel like cheering passes when playing keep ball while 3-0 up with 10 minutes to go here are some screenies..

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

As said before yes Bayern are a great team but are they 7 goals better than AC Milan?! It is basically the original squad too, only addition is Douglas (DC) from Twente.

Mind sharing your tweaks ? I'm also using the home tactic with my arsenal to great success, but would like to make it better . 7-0 against AC Milan is sick.

[Stu232]

This was great in fm11 good to see a few of you having good results this year

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

Haven't played much FM12 yet. My team is yet to become fluid in the tactics, but they seem to be maintaining posession well.

Hopefully this weekend should be free, so I'll be able to complete half a season. I might even try it at lower league levels to see how they cope with it.

[oneskyride]

welcome back man . i've been trying to tweak the home tactic to make it even better, i've given the lone striker a free role , normal tackling to FB's and MC's , i'm thinking maybe make the wigers cut inside to make them more dangerous , also testing +3 CF to all players with the home tactic ATM , we'll see how it goes, don't want to lose any possession though . Which team are you managing ?

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

@oneskyride: Nice. +3 Creative Freedom sounds good - I tried it with Barce in FM11 and it worked well.

I'm managing Barce again. I tried having the wingers with Run With Ball set to often, which made them cut inside quite a bit due to them having Crossing set to Rarely. Only problem is they can become too one dimensional, which causes the passing to drop.

I struggled in FM11 having the wingers cut inside, as it meant there weren't many passing options for the midfielders if they came under pressure. But I'm thinking this could be corrected if the fullbacks are set to Forward Runs Often - push them high up the pitch and into the positions the wingers have moved out of. Might need a bit of testing to see if this will work.

I was also trying Xavi with Hold Up Ball to see if he slows down the Tempo. Haven't really tested it enough yet to see if it makes much of a difference.

[boogiept]

@oneskyride: Nice. +3 Creative Freedom sounds good - I tried it with Barce in FM11 and it worked well.

I'm managing Barce again. I tried having the wingers with Run With Ball set to often, which made them cut inside quite a bit due to them having Crossing set to Rarely. Only problem is they can become too one dimensional, which causes the passing to drop.

I struggled in FM11 having the wingers cut inside, as it meant there weren't many passing options for the midfielders if they came under pressure. But I'm thinking this could be corrected if the fullbacks are set to Forward Runs Often - push them high up the pitch and into the positions the wingers have moved out of. Might need a bit of testing to see if this will work.

I was also trying Xavi with Hold Up Ball to see if he slows down the Tempo. Haven't really tested it enough yet to see if it makes much of a difference.

Maybe push the fb´s into wb position and dragging the cm into dmc position

[barongimpy]

What position would you lose with this tactic if/when you go down to 10 men? At home I guess the most defensive of the CMs but same away from home?

[dan99]

What position would you lose with this tactic if/when you go down to 10 men? At home I guess the most defensive of the CMs but same away from home?

Probably the most attacking CM.

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

**NEW TACTIC**

http://www.mediafire.com/?iq9f997h527p2db

**DISCLAIMER**

Designed for the Barcelona team and hasn't been tested with smaller teams, hence I have no idea how it will work with these teams. Also, this tactic hasn't been tested thoroughly and I'm only releasing it so that people can have a go and see if it produces good results -- I'm finding it difficult to get any time to play FM

+3 Creative Freedom

Wingers cut inside

LMC & RMC Through Balls set to often

Fullbacks Forward Runs often (provide width now that wingers cut inside)

Tinkered with the mentality (+3 for LWNG, +3 FBs, also made LDC on neutral mentality to stagger defence)

STC now on Free Role (after many suggestions)

Messi now plays in the striker position, with David Villa on LWNG position.

As I say, this hasn't been tested very much, so it could be completely rubbish.

[ShirazS]

I'm using Barkermush's version with Liverpool. Getting pretty much the same results. Won't be on my computer for a week so I can't post any SS till next monday.

How are your results with Liverpool? Still good? Also, how have you done in the CL?

[dolph11]

Giving the new one a try, is the MCR the Playmaker? Early signs are good, struggle a little defensively tho and don't seem to hold the ball as well as the older versions. Nice football though!

[dolph11]

Any ideas on how to sure up the defence? I have the opposing strikers literally running past my defenders unchallenged!

[oneskyride]

I've found that due to the high defensive line slow defenders are terrible with this tactic, i also try to use CB's with decent pace , acceleration and agility to deal with fast strikers, these are far more important IMO than slow , tall defenders with good heading and jumping , atleast in this tactic. I have Toby Alderweireld and Thomas Vermaelen at my Arsenal squad (2013) . They're both doing great, not conceding too many goals. IF you're playing away you can try lowering the defensive line, i've noticed that the opposition press higher when playing home giving your defenders and midfielders little space to operate, this can be countered using the AWAY tactic , or manually lowering the defensive line and maybe raising the width slider a bit.

**NEW TACTIC**

http://www.mediafire.com/?iq9f997h527p2db

**DISCLAIMER**

Designed for the Barcelona team and hasn't been tested with smaller teams, hence I have no idea how it will work with these teams. Also, this tactic hasn't been tested thoroughly and I'm only releasing it so that people can have a go and see if it produces good results -- I'm finding it difficult to get any time to play FM

+3 Creative Freedom

Wingers cut inside

LMC & RMC Through Balls set to often

Fullbacks Forward Runs often (provide width now that wingers cut inside)

Tinkered with the mentality (+3 for LWNG, +3 FBs, also made LDC on neutral mentality to stagger defence)

STC now on Free Role (after many suggestions)

Messi now plays in the striker position, with David Villa on LWNG position.

As I say, this hasn't been tested very much, so it could be completely rubbish.

Giving your tactic a try right now with arsenal. will report back with feedback and results.i'm guessing the +3 Creative freedom is best used with Barca, since they have the most gifted and technical squad in the world, and the decisions they make will be good and probably won't affect possession too much. My line-up is

ter Stegen

Jose Angel--Vermaelen--Alderweireld--Sagna

Ramsey--Song--Wilshere

Gotze--V.Persie(Bojan)--Hulk.

I've also noticed that you've lowered the width and limited the MCR to no forward runs . Are you keeping the ball better this way?

[dolph11]

I have some pretty good defenders but i'm getting savagely beaten! Not enough comes from the striker either, not enough movement off the ball for passes. The striker just comes deep on passes the ball back, not really enough, probably works well with Barca, but then, what doesn't?

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

To be honest, I think the new tactic will be too attacking for away games and for teams which are weaker than the "elite" standard. The fullbacks may also benefit from being less attacking.

@dolph11: What team are you playing with?

I've also found the tactic has been a little bit loose on FM12. It could be due to the the tactic being quite global in its approach, as I've noticed people are having success with tactics where the mentalities are quite rigid in their approach. i.e. defenders on a low mentality, midfielders on a more neutral mentality and attackers on an attacking mentality. But, as I've said, I haven't really played much FM12 yet. My team isn't yet fluid in the tactic and I'm finding the teamtalks are having a far bigger influence than in previous FM games - this might not be the case, but it seems to be.

I might have a look - when I get the chance - at adapting the tactic to be more rigid wrt mentalities. I just need to find the time!

Anyways, all feedback is much appreciated.

@oneskyride: The MCR (Playmaker) originally had no forward runs. I then put them as Mixed for the Home/Away tactics to see if the Playmaker will follow the ball up the field. As it happens, due to the high Defensive Line, the MCR is pushed high up the pitch anyway. Reducing the player's Forward Runs stops him bombing into the opposition box and making himself unavailable for passing in the midfield area.

[dolph11]

I was in my 3rd season with Evian in the Ligue 1 in France. I had an average side so really didn't expect much, I actually had a good defence though. I think the opposition got too much space, with Barca they would never lose the ball so it really would work for them.

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

@dolph11@ Try un-ticking play offside. You can also have counter attacking selected if you want to try holding onto the ball more.

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

Scrap the last tactic. It's hopeless after testing. Nice at home, but very weak away.

I'm now testing a new tactic which has a few tweaks to the original away tactic. Creating a lot more clear cut chances, whilst maintaining a solid defence and good possession.

Last 5 Games:

W=5

F=17

A=1

[oneskyride]

good . looking forward to your new tactic. i do find that sometimes the home tactic is too attacking away against some teams,thus struggling to even create chances , even if the opposition is much worse than me . With +3 CF the movement and passing patterns were fun to watch but that much freedom resulted in failure in sticking to their instructions, wasting way too much possession.

[shirajzl]

The first three posts of this thread are sheer quality. It's really helpful for people who want to understand how sliders work, and not just download a tactic and plug it in.

I only wish more people would give such an insight in their reasoning when making a tactic.

[Guest]

Using the original home and away tactics with some tweaking i've now gone 100 league games unbeaten ! Into April now and just lost one away game in Champions League...have also added in a counter attack version for tough away games.

Tweaks

AML/R move into channels...this works nicely and even allows for playing a right footed player at AMR and a left at AML if needs be

AML/R foward runs reset to mixed to keep them involved in build up as per Tic-Tacs original settings

STR free role/roaming and move into channels

AML/R and DR/L crossing mixed, too near post and team driven crossing

DM moved to actual DM position

Counter attack tactic ONLY has all mentalities reduced by 2 from the away tactic, creative freedom reduced by 2-3, width reduced by 2 and passing length increased by three. Playmaker removed and free role for ex-playmaker unticked. Counter attack ticked.

I find it really useful to watch first 15 mins especially away and gauge how far up the field the oppo are pressing, then increase the tempo to match their pressing. Keep an eye on it across the rest of the game and adjust accordingly, if they go on to park the bus I then slow the tempo down, often find once 2-3 goals up that AI reduces pressing and goes defensive which often means slow tempo for me and a 4-6 goal win ;-)

Often switch between the home and away tactic when playing away from home depending how the game is progressing. Even adjust to couter if away and a non-top side start to come at me when I'm a goal or two up, then switch back to Home if I score a third.

Possesion always favours me often 60-70%, but not always, sometimes despite adjusting tempo and tactic I only have 52-60% in my favour.

Current Liga BBVA

P32

W31

D1

L0

F112

A12

Points 94

Not sure I'll match last seasons 140 goals for and 15 against!

Spanish Cup Final and Champions Cup semi-final (5-1 up to A.C milan after home leg) to come, league won already.

Superb tactic - best football I've ever had out of my team in FM. Thanks again Magick.

[Guest]

Forgot a few things on crossing if anyones interested.

AML/R set to cross from byline, unless they get to the byline I want them to be passing and dribbling.

DR/L set to cross from mixed.

I'm finding allowing this level of crossing gives another option when players find themselves in a wide position, it reduces the *over* repeated passing triangles that having all players set to crossing rarely can cause. Nice balance I reckon. Crosses tend to be low to feet or for a header that doesn't require the jumping of a target man. More importantly the settings don't distract from Barca's style of play, if anything it's a closer emulation.

For the counter attack variant I have also set both the playmaking midfielders to forward runs rarely and no roaming, want them to stay deep and plat through balls for the front three.

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

@headcoat:

Nice to see it's working well for you. Your modifications sound good, too. I agree with you about the crossing, as I've found the ball can be passed around too much near the byline leading to a lot of corners. I also like the idea of the 3 midfielders all set to FWR Rarely when trying to maintain the possession -- I found it offers more passing options between the defence and midfield.

Have you got your striker on Forward Runs Mixed? I've found it creates a lot more chances. I currently have my wide players set to FWR Mixed and Cut Inside, with my striker set to FWR Mixed and Move Into Channels. I'm going to try your suggestion with the wingers moving into the channels -- does this get them moving between the opposition FBs and CBs?

Thanks for the feedback -- these tweaks help develop the tactic.

[oneskyride]

Man you gotta share those tactics with us!!

[Guest]

AML/R moving into channels - yep think (think as it's it's always subjective with FM) it gets them moving between FBs and CBS. I've always thought of cut inside as a *with* the ball instruction whereas move into channels is a *without* the ball instruction. As you'd mentioned way back if you play a AML who is right footed or a AMR who is left footed they will naturally cut inside on the ball....setting moves into channels then encourages them to move into the channels between the FB and CB when off the ball.

Just checked and no had been playing with the STR on FWR rarely...will change that one, be interesting to see how that pans out.

Parked my FM11 game now, went two whole seasons unbeaten in the league (110 games in total), kept losing out in the Champions League, injuries caught me out in final season - my best STR and AML out - I had to play a 18 and 19 year old in the final and an inconsistent AMR.

Going to finally give FM12 a whirl. Plan is to take your Tic-Tac Magick and mix it with another Barca variant someone else wrote about. It'll be a 31231 formation. 3 CBs, 1 DM, 2CM, AML, AMC, AMR and STR.

The two outside centre backs are set to wide play - hug the touchline to encourage them to move wide when the team has the ball. Hopefully the DM will drop to cover the two wide CBs if they move wide to cover the oppo wingers. Be interesting to see how the AMC works with the STR. With the STRs low mentality and mixed FWR is possible that he and the AMC are playing very close. One option to allow for this is to raise the AMCs mentality and set to FWR often - think Fabregas and Messi. I'm hoping with both AMC and STR set to roaming / free role the two will be fluid. Will be interesting as both CMs, AMLR/R, AMC and STR will be set to roam !!!

oneskyride not sure if you were asking *me* to share tactic but if so, take MAGiCKs home + away tactics and tweak as I mentioned above i.e. adjust crossing instructions, move into channels for AML + AMR. All the mentality and passing setting remain as was. For the counter attack variant simple reduce mentality, increase passing etc as above.

Will post back on the 31231 as it progresses.

[MAGiCK_FOOTBALL]

@headcoat: Nice. That formation sounds interesting.

I'm currently trying a 4-2-1-3 formation. Lots of goals, but we're only averaging about 350/400 passes. Still maintaining high possession, so it might be something to do with the higher tempo.

[Sweez]

to all masterminds here : Counter attack is ticked on or not ?

i've been using the tactic but i lost all my tactics ( tweaks of this one ) so now i'm a bit confused about the counter attack option .

will post more in a few days but please help me out on this one

[zinedremomeri]

to all masterminds here : Counter attack is ticked on or not ?

i've been using the tactic but i lost all my tactics ( tweaks of this one ) so now i'm a bit confused about the counter attack option .

will post more in a few days but please help me out on this one

sweez if u r playing fm12 check this out http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/290964-Total-Football-Tic-Tac-PHOENiX

[Sweez]

still fm 2011 here

but ty ! gonna try some of those tweaks on mpy fm11 save