Project Totaal Voetbal - A Dutch Emulation Tactic

[EdsFM]

Project Totaal Voetbal

Hi guys, and welcome to my Project Totaal Voetbal, or Total Football for those of you who don’t speak basic Dutch. Total Football has been hailed as the Holy Grail for Football Manager tacticians, and I heard it was just a bit of a challenge to re-create the pure fluidity of the Dutch national side of ’74 and the Ajax sides of the early 1970s. Well, I thought I’d take the challenge.

My aims when creating the tactic were simply these:

• To re-create the fluidity of the Dutch National Team from 1974.

• To complete the above with maximal success, in terms of results.

• To be able to make an exact comparison between the roles and duties of the players in my tactics, and the Dutch players who fulfilled those roles back in the ‘70s.

I said “simply” then, and that was probably the wrong word, as nothing to do with this tactic is simple – far from it. And those aims are also far from simple, and as per usual, I’ve done hours and hours, days and days of research into the tactic to put every ounce of detail into it and achieve these aims.

By the way, this tactic is only applicable for teams that are physically and technically able to play it. Don’t come and complain when your team gets relegated after the media predicted a 17th place finish.

Note: If you don’t want to read this lot, you don’t have to, in order to do well at the tactic – but it will certainly help if you want to make little tweaks.

Also remember that Part 3 is probably the most important to you, as it tells you which players to play where, so if you’re only going to read one part of this article – read Part 3.

# # #

Part 1: An Introduction to Totaal Voetbal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF_kvs6tkpk

Highly recommend watching that video - beautiful stuff

Total Football (Dutch: Totaal Voetbal) is the label given to an influential tactical theory of association football in which any outfield player can take over the role of any other player on the team. It was used by the Dutch football club Ajax from 1969 to 1973, and further by the Netherlands National Football Team at the 1974 FIFA World Cup.

In Total Football, a player who moves out of position is replaced by another member of the team, thus retaining the team's intended organisational structure. In this fluid system, no outfield player is fixed in a nominal role; anyone can be successively an attacker, a midfielder and a defender. The only player fixed in a nominal position is the goalkeeper.

Total Football's tactical success depends largely on the adaptability of each footballer within the team, in particular the ability to quickly switch positions depending on the on-field situation. The theory requires players to be comfortable in multiple positions; hence, it places high technical and physical demands on them.

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/img/ned1970.png

Dutch forward Johan Cruyff was the system's most famous exponent. Although Cruyff was fielded as a centre forward, he wandered all over the pitch, popping up wherever he could do most damage to the opposing team. This resulted in a need for a dynamic system like Total Football. Cruyff's teammates adapted themselves flexibly around his movements, regularly switching positions so that the tactical roles in the team were always filled.

The term ‘Total Football’ is often mis-used to describe any fluid attacking football. In its purest form, Total Football is based on positional interchange and hard pressing. The Arsenal FC and FC Barcelona tactics of the modern day have been likened to ‘Total Football’, although is commonly known as ‘tika-taka’, a tactic with roots to the tactic created by Rimus Michels and Johan Cruyff.

Part 2: Totaal Voetbal in Football Manager

Part 2.1: Formation

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8783/formationf.png

As you may be able to tell, the formation that I’ve created is slightly different to that which I’ve shown you in the picture above. That’s for one simple reason – it allows the team to play Total Football in the FM Match Engine, as well as being successful.

Having a sweeper and an offside trap (which is an extraordinarily complex concept developed in Totaal Voetbal) just isn’t possible in Football Manager. Actually, I tell a lie, it is possible. But you’ll end up playing as if you’ve got one defender and four holding midfielders – not exactly what you want, really, is it?

This is essentially how the formation plays in Football Manager. As you can see, the key man, in the Cruyff role, drops back into a position which allows him to get plenty of possession of the ball, whilst also allowing players to overlap him.

The players that do this are the CM and the RB and LB who all bomb forward (as do all the players, effectively, but these are the most prominent). Despite popular belief, Johan Neeskens was not the most defensive of the midfield trio that occupied the centre-piece of Totaal Voetbal, he was in fact the most attacking, and often found himself as the team’s top goalscorer. This is replicated in the tactic.

Part 2.2: Team Instructions

The team instructions [and the whole tactic in general] are built around making the most accurate representation in the Football Manager Match Engine, as to how the Total Football tactic operated in real life.

Obviously, anyone who’s seen any Total Football, or indeed watched the YouTube video earlier in this post, will know what the Philosophy and Starting Strategy should be. The Very Fluid philosophy is backed up by the fact that players are constantly swapping positions, far too much for just a fluid tactic. The tactic is also very attacking, and therefore, surprisingly, merits the Attacking Starting Strategy.

The passing style is kept short, so the side is capable of maintaining possession, where it is far more dangerous. Obviously the players are told to be more expressive, as they were back in the Dutch 1974 days. This increases the amount of player-position swaps dramatically, which can be juxtaposed to real life.

Totaal Voetbal was aggressive in defense and attack and as you can see from the very first bit of the YouTube video, above, the pressing of the Dutch team is beautiful to watch, it’s so extreme. The tackling was also hard and rough, proven by the fact the Dutch were regularly [near or] on top of the disciplinarian charts.

The system did not have a marking system, as such, and because of this, I’ve assumed they used man marking, as zonal marking was developed at a later date. Roaming is fairly obviously set to the maximal setting as we want players getting out of position as much as possible.

The defensive line of the Totaal Voetbal side was extremely high, possibly too high. But as they were the first side to bring the idea of an offside trap to football, you can see why they pushed up so much. Therefore, the defensive line on Football Manager is as high as it can possibly be. This is aided by the Sweeper Keeper used in the tactic, which was sometimes known as “the fifth defender”.

Width-wise, the Dutch side were not really extraordinary, like so many other areas of their creation were. The wingers would drag the full backs out wide creating space for Cruyff and Neeskens to bomb through and get the majority of the team’s goals, and if the defenders didn’t pull out wide, then the aforementioned players could just spray the ball out wide, which they did to great effect. This has been replicated in Football Manager by not making the tactic too wide, but still allowing for a large amount of width.

The tempo of the Totaal Voetbal tactic is not exactly difficult to figure out. Despite playing short passing football, the tactic was very quick, and often triangles of one-touch football were made (something I think I’ve recreated very well in the Match Engine) – therefore, the tempo is quick.

The rest of the specific instructions speak for themselves. The tactic didn’t time waste or counter attack, and obviously did play the offside trap. Sorted.

Part 2.3: Roles and Duties

Obviously the basis of any tactic is the roles and duties you give to your players, and here are the ones I’ve assigned to the players in the Totaal Voetbal tactic.

Goalkeeper – Sweeper Keeper – Support

Defender Right – Wing Back – Support

Defender Centre Right – Ball Playing Defender – Defend

Defender Centre Left – Ball Playing Defender – Defend

Defender Left – Wing Back – Support

Midfielder Centre Right – Box to Box Midfielder – Support

Midfielder Centre – Box to Box Midfielder – Support

Midfielder Centre Left – Box to Box Midfielder – Support

Striker Right – Defensive Winger – Attack

Striker – Complete Forward – Support

Striker Left – Defensive Winger – Attack

As you can see, I’ve got some interesting things in there, and some of it is simply standard. I’ll go through the interesting stuff, as you’re probably bored to death right now.

At the back, I’ve got two ball playing defenders in the middle. This is so they get involved, and generally means that they have more freedom to attack and get forwards, resulting in more positional swaps – which is what we want.

Another interesting area of the Roles and Duties is that we’ve got three (yes, three) box-to-box midfielders in the centre. The MCR and MCL actually play exactly the same role, just in different areas of the pitch, and they generally float around between the RB and RW (or the LB and LW, in the MCL’s case). The CM, as I’ve said previously, is essentially the most attacking of the midfield three and therefore plays the same role (so that he is involved in defense and attack), but is set to play more attacking than the other two.

Now for the most interesting bit – two Defensive Wingers set to Attack. This seems strange, but it is the setting that most likens to how Rensenbrink and Rep played those roles in real life. Despite the Attack setting, the wingers often drop back, and the attacking wing backs after often seen overlapping them (despite only being on Support setting!).

The striker is also set to Complete Forward, and not Trequarista or Deep Lying Forward (like you would think the “drop-back-deep-to-get-the-ball” Cruyff role should be), but Complete Forward – Support seems to work far better.

I’m also not going to go into the Complex Player Instructions, as they don’t change loads from the roles the players have been assigned.

Part 3: Positional Analaysis – what players go where?

This section is going to be for me to tell you what sort of players you want in each of the different roles for the tactic.

Goalkeeper – Sweeper Keeper – Support

Pepe Reina

Hugo Lloris

Steve Mandanda

The Sweeper Keeper is needed to sweep up any of the balls that are hit over the top of the extremely high defensive line, or to deal with any potentially pacy strikers. They need the following attributes:

Acceleration, Agility, Composure, Concentration, Creativity, Decisions, Pace and Positioning.

Right Back – Wing Back – Support

Sergio Ramos

Daniel Alves

Mattia Cassani

The right back needs to have the physical ability to get up and down the line, whilst also having the technical ability to keep possession and whip in a pin perfect cross when it is needed. They need the following attributes:

Acceleration, Crossing, Decisions, Marking, Positioning, Stamina, Tackling, Teamwork and Work Rate.

Central Defender – Ball Playing Defender – Defend

Gerard Pique

Cristian Chivu

Majid Bougherra

The job of the ball playing defender is to break up attacks, and clear when ball when required. However, unlike regular centre backs, ball playing defenders are encouraged to keep the ball, and panic less, than regular. They need the following attributes:

Composure, Concentration, Creativity, Decisions, Determination, Heading, Jumping, Marking, Passing, Positioning, Strength, Tackling and Technique.

Left Back – Wing Back – Support

Patrice Evra

John Arne Riise

Leighton Baines

The right back needs to have the physical ability to get up and down the line, whilst also having the technical ability to keep possession and whip in a pin perfect cross when it is needed. They need the following attributes:

Acceleration, Crossing, Decisions, Marking, Positioning, Stamina, Tackling, Teamwork and Work Rate.

Central Midfielder Left and Right – Box to Box Midfielder – Support

Ramires

Darren Fletcher

Hugo Vianna

The box-to-box midfielder is hugely important because he contributes to both attack and defense. In attack, he arrives late into the box, providing that extra option. And in defense, he harries the opposition midfielders, creating an extra defensive line. They need the following attributes:

Acceleration, Anticipation, Bravery, Decisions, Determination, Dribbling, Finishing, First Touch, Heading, Long Shots, Marking, Passing, Off the Ball, Positioning, Stamina, Strength and Technique.

Central Midfielder – Box to Box Midfielder – Support

Steven Gerrard

Marek Hamsik

Javier Pastore

The central position is slightly more aggressive, and that’s why I’ve given it a new category. All in all though, it is very similar to the previous position, although will be found in attacking situations more. They need the following attributes:

Acceleration, Anticipation, Bravery, Decisions, Determination, Dribbling, Finishing, First Touch, Heading, Long Shots, Marking, Passing, Off the Ball, Positioning, Stamina, Strength and Technique.

Right Winger – Defensive Winger – Attack

Tomas Rosicky

Clint Dempsey

Park Ji-Sung

Please note, that you don’t need a defensive winger in this role. Whilst testing I used a whole host of different players who worked effectively in this role such as Theo Walcott, Carlos Tevez, Mauro Zarate, Fernando Torres and Ashley Young and all have played well there.

The defensive winger aims to press the opposition fullback, and provide “defense from the front”. With the attack duty, though, the defensive winger will look to get involved in attacking plays as well, often getting multiple crosses in per game. They need the following attributes:

Crossing, Decisions, Dribbling, Marking, Pace, Stamina, Tackling, Teamwork, Technique and Work Rate.

Striker – Complete Forward – Support

Wayne Rooney

Giuseppe Rossi

Vagner Love

A complete forward, is pretty much that, a forward that is complete. They’re confident at all areas of the game, and are equally adept at creating chances for the team as they are at finishing them. They need the following attributes:

Acceleration, Agility, Anticipation, Balance, Composure, Creativity, Decisions, Determination, Dribbling, Finishing, First Touch, Heading, Long Shots, Jumping, Off the Ball, Pace, Passing, Strength, Teamwork and Technique.

Left Winger – Defensive Winger – Attack

Gareth Bale

Yury Zhirkov

Robinho

Please note, that you don’t need a defensive winger in this role. Whilst testing I used a whole host of different players who worked effectively in this role such as Adam Johnson, Lionel Messi, Angel Di Maria, David Villa and Stevan Jovetic and all have played well there.

The defensive winger aims to press the opposition fullback, and provide “defense from the front”. With the attack duty, though, the defensive winger will look to get involved in attacking plays as well, often getting multiple crosses in per game. They need the following attributes:

Crossing, Decisions, Dribbling, Marking, Pace, Stamina, Tackling, Teamwork, Technique and Work Rate.

Part 4: Testing and Match Engine Analysis

As I’ve already talked about the majority of this lot, and you’re bored to death after 2000 words of crap, I’ll put the pictures up and do a little explanation of what they are. It’s mainly to show you that my positional transitions, which are key to Total Football, do actually work.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3945/exampleofpositionaltran.png]

This picture shows Ashley Young (who is playing on the left wing) with the ball in the centre of the pitch. Wayne Rooney, who is occupying the Johan Cruyff role, realises this is happening and steps out to the left wing to stretch the defense on the far side and allow Ashley Young more space as well as more options.

Steven Gerrard is playing as the Number 6 in this situation, and is in the MC role. This is an example of where he is pushed up, and occupies the opposition right back. This is so effective because Aaron Lennon (#10) has so much space, and eventually Ashley Young does ship the ball out to Lennon.

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/3945/exampleofpositionaltran.png

Contrary to how this looks, it isn’t a free kick. After a throw in was taken, John Terry stepped over to “help out” and is now covered in the centre by left back (#3) Ashley Cole – what a nice chap. Notice that #2 (Micah Richards – right back) in this scenario, is also covering Rio Ferdinand who has gone forward, and Steven Gerrard has dropped back to cover the right back slot.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3945/exampleofpositionaltran.png

This time, we’re up against Wales, but it’s another great example of positional transitions. The two men that stay back this time are Ashley Cole (#3) and Rio Ferdinand (#4). Ashley Cole comes across from his usual left back slot to cover John Terry (#5) and Glen Johnson (#2) who have made forward runs.

The End.

# # #

Assuming you didn’t get through all that, but if you did, congratulations. As per usual, this is only version 1 of my tactic, and because of the complexity, I do need more testers, and I do need more feedback. As always I appreciate constructive criticism and will look to develop any ideas into my tactic.

Oh, and please comment. Even if it’s just a little “good tactic” it shows me I’ve done a good job and motivates me more in the future. Cheers lads. (Y)

DOWNLOAD LINK TO THE TACTIC AND SCHEDULES CAN BE FOUND HERE:

Project Totaal Voetbal - A Dutch Emulation Tactic - Football Manager Team Talk

[Cleon]

Quality opening post, very nice work

[Basile Boli]

Nice post mate.

This is a thread I'll be keeping a close eye on as I have always tried to build a tactic similar to this and have had mediocre success but nothing outstanding. Whenever I try this system out, I'd always play a Libero on attack duty as this would mean he gets more involved in build up play and steps into midfield when we have possession. I'd always play as Ajax so had Vertonghen who could play here and Alderweireld who I could retrain to this position so finding a suitable sweeper was no problem.

I'd be interested to see some match stats from your 2 CB's to see their passing rates aswell as average positions.

Great post nonetheless

[EdsFM]

Thank you Cleon, and cheers Basile.

Nice post mate.

This is a thread I'll be keeping a close eye on as I have always tried to build a tactic similar to this and have had mediocre success but nothing outstanding. Whenever I try this system out, I'd always play a Libero on attack duty as this would mean he gets more involved in build up play and steps into midfield when we have possession. I'd always play as Ajax so had Vertonghen who could play here and Alderweireld who I could retrain to this position so finding a suitable sweeper was no problem.

I'd be interested to see some match stats from your 2 CB's to see their passing rates aswell as average positions.

Great post nonetheless

Thanks mate.

And I did try out with a Libero - Attack, which is where the tactic started off. And to be quite frank, it was abysmal. The fact we played an offside trap meant he played opposition wingers on constantly, and the whole point of him was to step up and create plays and get forward in midfield, which just didn't happen enough on the match engine, therefore I had to settle with a Ball Playing Defender. Also the fact that he may as well not have been there as the sweeper keeper did his job for him meant he was essentially useless.

I'll get you some screenshots from my next few matches for CFR Cluj.

Also, having released this tactic on FM-Base, I've got a few comments back which I'd like to share with these forums:

This tactic is the best I've seen so far for 2011.. ED asked if I'd test it before he did release it and I've really liked it.

I can't believe how much movement and swapping of positions that you have been able to replicate using this match engine! At one point, my right back was on the left wing!

Would really appreciate it if a few guys from here gave it a go.

[ZdlR]

Looks extremely interesting

[Basile Boli]

I'd be very interested in helping you work on/better this tactic. I will have time tomorrow to run some test games and will let you know my thoughts.

Nice to see someone attempt this who has obviously done their homework on the system beforehand.

[Basile Boli]

Just one quick question EdsFM: What's the reasoning concerning the specific set piece (corner & FK) instructions?

[EdsFM]

Cheers Basile - very interested to hear your results. At the moment, my Cluj team is doing excellently with it.

Just one quick question EdsFM: What's the reasoning concerning the specific set piece (corner & FK) instructions?

Yeah, I didn't really do loads of research into these areas, and only watched a few YouTube videos on corners (and none on free kicks, so that was purely based on guess). From the corners, they generally floated it in to the 6 yard box, with a number of strong headers in the middle, and Cruyff on the near post/in front of the keeper.

I haven't done a lot of research there, so that's definately an area to improve upon.

[ZdlR]

Anyone got a new link to the video - it's now been removed from youtube.

[EdsFM]

Here you go ZdlR -

Highly recommend watching that to any real football fan - so amazing to watch - particularly the very first bit.

[YBlade]

I can't watch, what a ****. Because I'm from BIH?

[Basile Boli]

I decided to start a new game purely for the purpose of testing the tactic as I felt it would be unfair to try it out on my current Ajax side seeing as we are a season in and team understanding is very strong (could have lead to unfair results). At the same time I know that by testing it out on a brand new team with very little understanding/gelling, could lead to superficial results. However I'm going to give it a go over multiple pre-season friendlies against teams of differing stature and see how they fair.

Analysis for each position

GK - I had a few issues with this. Namely the fact that he will constantly look for a long ball forward from goal kicks. When he received the ball in open play he would look for one of my defenders and play short.

However from a Goal kick he would consistently play long. My opponents were playing a standard 4-4-2 so it wasn't as if they had 3 strikers pressing my back 4 high up the pitch. There was still considerable space for him to play to one of my fullbacks in space. Again, this might be improved by increasing the width setting. However I'm not keen on doing this after one game as I liked the link up play between the midfield 3 and by increasing the width this could cancel out the short interchanges.

You have selected passing style as short but not quite the shortest and with his high creative freedom I assume this is why he has looked long. Coupled with the fact my CF is set as a target man and playmaker at the same time. In my first friendly he completed 21 of his 25 passes. Not bad, but at the same time not as great as I'd expect from a team looking to keep the ball.

I think I will look at altering his settings for my 2nd friendly (set his passing to first shortest possible and reduce Creative Freedom slightly)

RB/LB - Worked well. Typical wingbacks - Got forward whenever possible and contributed to the patterns of play as they were constantly available out wide. Settings were spot on with these in my opinion.

CB - To be fair, my 2 CB's aren't the most accomplished passers (11 and 12 passing attributes). However, I didn't see them launching too many defence splitting balls.

Looking at the analysis page, the only time they gave the ball away was when they attempted a long ball forward. They both misplaced about 20% of their passes, not ideal, but certainly not an awful statistic considering they are both CB's. I think if I'd attempted this with Ajax it could have worked perfectly as both Vertonghen and Alderweireld are very good passers.

CM - Worked well. Floated around the pitch, constantly changing positions. However there were a few instances that I was left with little support for my lone striker.

A few times we'd break an opposition attack up and break and all 3 would slowly move forward, not even the central most advanced CM would bomb forward. This led to a few instances that my CF had to hold on to the ball for a long time and the momentum of the attack was lost. Luckily my CF has good strength attribute so could hold onto the ball, I fear that a smaller CF with a lower strength attribute would lose the ball more often.

RF/LF - Very interested to see you go for a defensive winger as in the past I have gone for Inside forwards and altered the individual instructions. This worked well though, they were constantly tracking back helping the defence out and would again roam all over the pitch trying to get involved. I'll need more time to analyse these 2 positions as I've still not completely made my mind up.

CF - I was unsure about having him marked as both playmaker and TM but it actually worked ok. My CF is a very intelligent player anyway so he drops into pockets of space well but uses the ball extremely well, never wasting a pass.

The difficult thing about this position is that it needs a world class player to really make it work. You must remember that we are basing this position on the job Cruyff did. He was no ordinary player but one of the most intelligent and naturally gifted of all time. I will see how my CF continues to play but I might alter the settings slightly here if it doesn't work out.

Team Settings - Overall good again. One main gripe I had was with my possession stats. I always look to build a tactic based around keeping the ball and usually will achieve 65+% on this. However in this game I achieved only 56%. Not a bad result but I would have liked better. This could well be down to the high tempo you have selected as this won't suit every team. I might slow it down slightly so improved our passing percentages as a few times the players looked rushed in getting the ball forward.

However, this could well be down to the fact it is only my first game at a new club. No doubt about it that its going to take some time to see this tactic in its full glory.

A positive I will say is the closing down of the team. The first time I have seen my team press so high up the pitch and harass the opposition into giving possession away. You're never going to be able to accurately represent what Holland did in 1974 but this was as close as you will get I think. A warning on this though is that I definitely saw my players getting alot more tired than usual. I know it was a first pre-season match but usually after my first pre-season match, players are ending the first half on mid 70% condition. However at the end of the first half my players were all about 65-68% fit.

Obviously this will improve over time as the season approaches.

All in all I'm impressed by it but there are undoubtedly a few things that need further testing and analysis. I'll try and get another game completed later today and I'll let you know what I think.

Hopefully this was helpful in some round about way

[EdsFM]

Cheers Basile - thanks for putting the effort in to help me improve the tactic. I'm not going to respond to your post in full, not out of dis-respect, but I want to hear your opinions after a full pre-season rather than a single match.

[Basile Boli]

No problems, I'd want the same too if I'd gone to the trouble of making a tactic.

I should warn you though, I'm a very slow player. So it might take a good few days for me to finish pre-season games, possibly a week or so.

[EdsFM]

No worries buddy - take all the time you want. I've got a fair few people running tests now, and you've done the best analysis by far.

[mangelito]

I'm at work and can't load up the tactic on FM until friday, so just wanted to ask out of curiosity how you built it. Tactics creator? In that case, any tweaks on the player roles? All classic? Do you use any sideline shouts, and if so in which scenarios?

Thanks for the post. Very interesting read.

[EdsFM]

I'm at work and can't load up the tactic on FM until friday, so just wanted to ask out of curiosity how you built it. Tactics creator? In that case, any tweaks on the player roles? All classic? Do you use any sideline shouts, and if so in which scenarios?

Thanks for the post. Very interesting read.

I didn't use the tactics creator - I never do.

And yes, there were quite a few tweaks on the player roles to get the desired effect of the tactic.

And no, I don't use touchline shouts, although one of the testers has told me the "use the flanks" (or something similar, I really don't know shouts well) works amazingly with this tactic.

[andrew bowditch]

I tried this with man utd in 11.3 patch, and my team leaked goals. But then again, that may be due to the players i have at my disposal (im in 2018)

[EdsFM]

I tried this with man utd in 11.3 patch, and my team leaked goals. But then again, that may be due to the players i have at my disposal (im in 2018)

With my Cluj side, I've conceded 1 goal and we're 8 games in to the league season - strange.

[Buttk0]

This tactic is awesome when it comes to strike force 11 goals in 4 games. But when it comes down to defense it's 8 conceded goals in 4 matches. Any advice how to reduce that ??

[EdsFM]

This tactic is awesome when it comes to strike force 11 goals in 4 games. But when it comes down to defense it's 8 conceded goals in 4 matches. Any advice how to reduce that ??

Get a better defense? I mean, as I said previously, my Cluj side conceded one in eight, and I hadn't made any defensive transfers.

Also, if you're not the best teams out there (what it's meant for), then it's not always going to be at 100% of it's 'capacity'. You need to be technically and physically good to use it.

[yoyoimthebest]

@EdsFM - Do you think this tactic would work with Ajax on patch 11.3?

Also for example if your playing Barcelona away in the Champions League would you set the starting match strategy as defensive or counter or would you keep it at attacking? Would this apply to playing all hard teams away?

Thanks!

[EdsFM]

@EdsFM - Do you think this tactic would work with Ajax on patch 11.3?

Also for example if your playing Barcelona away in the Champions League would you set the starting match strategy as defensive or counter or would you keep it at attacking? Would this apply to playing all hard teams away?

Thanks!

I definately think it'll work with Ajax. Although, I'm not too sure who the ST is for Ajax - if you don't have a really good one, then buy one.

Maybe take it down to Standard. I haven't experimented with this as much as I would like, but yeah, Standard would work, I reckon.

[yoyoimthebest]

Thanks for the advice (Y).

The striker is quite decent so I think it should work because the rest of the squad is very talented

[Basile Boli]

@EdsFM - Do you think this tactic would work with Ajax on patch 11.3?

Also for example if your playing Barcelona away in the Champions League would you set the starting match strategy as defensive or counter or would you keep it at attacking? Would this apply to playing all hard teams away?

Thanks!

I assume your striker at Ajax is El Hamdaoui? If so then he is fine with this role as he has good creative stats and is an intelligent footballer so will use his brain. He can also hold the ball up well and allow others to join the attack.

[Football Manager.]

Hi mate some feedback not in depth world class anylysis im kind of rushing around this morning.

basically i dont like the idea of copying somones tactic so a very big well done for all the effort i really do respect you for that. basically i just changed it to the way id want my team to play. ive changed the midfield 3 to a barce style Def mid then 2 center mids 1 being an advanced playmaker support the other center midfield support with alterd intructions. ive made sure there is no target man or play maker and thought id changed the wide play and pace but somhow it reset itself and my team is playing wonderful 4-3-3 total football and want to thank you. its with manchester city but youve given me the platform to create my own tactic and your findings have really helped me understand the ME a bit more. short narrow slow doesnt always = a good dominant possesion tactic. i think youve done your reasearch and tested very well and if you ever want help with this kind of thing being a football coach in real life aswell i would love to help. also i always had in my mind those left and right striker positions to be striker positions as in it would be say natural for tevez to play on the left or the right but their not they are WING positions in reference to the FM positioning lable. i never knew that. after many months of trying to get teams playing like barca ive always put them in the AML AND AMR positions and they are midfield positions not forward positions which is what they are in the SL AND SR positions. your findings have relieved so much stress on me i cant thank you enough my friend

Thank you.

apologese for the long message thats proberly not all that helpful !

[mojojojo101]

What with the amont of position swapping in the total football playstyle I wondered if anyone had experimented with having swap position turned on between the DR/FR and DL/FL. Obviouly requires quite specialised players that can play all up one side (Maggio, Dossena, Elmohamady, Coentrao etc)

[EdsFM]

Hi mate some feedback not in depth world class anylysis im kind of rushing around this morning.

basically i dont like the idea of copying somones tactic so a very big well done for all the effort i really do respect you for that. basically i just changed it to the way id want my team to play. ive changed the midfield 3 to a barce style Def mid then 2 center mids 1 being an advanced playmaker support the other center midfield support with alterd intructions. ive made sure there is no target man or play maker and thought id changed the wide play and pace but somhow it reset itself and my team is playing wonderful 4-3-3 total football and want to thank you. its with manchester city but youve given me the platform to create my own tactic and your findings have really helped me understand the ME a bit more. short narrow slow doesnt always = a good dominant possesion tactic. i think youve done your reasearch and tested very well and if you ever want help with this kind of thing being a football coach in real life aswell i would love to help. also i always had in my mind those left and right striker positions to be striker positions as in it would be say natural for tevez to play on the left or the right but their not they are WING positions in reference to the FM positioning lable. i never knew that. after many months of trying to get teams playing like barca ive always put them in the AML AND AMR positions and they are midfield positions not forward positions which is what they are in the SL AND SR positions. your findings have relieved so much stress on me i cant thank you enough my friend

Thank you.

apologese for the long message thats proberly not all that helpful !

Haha, no worries my friend. I'm glad it has helped you.

What with the amont of position swapping in the total football playstyle I wondered if anyone had experimented with having swap position turned on between the DR/FR and DL/FL. Obviouly requires quite specialised players that can play all up one side (Maggio, Dossena, Elmohamady, Coentrao etc)

Mojojojo, I did have a look at the player swapping, but it is far to 'mechanical' for Totaalvoetbal. The fluidity is key, and putting it so players swap positions every so often just isn't what this tactic is about.

[DDWZ]

Would you say having a striker with good Jumping / Heading / Height is a must have or is it possible to have a good /smart small guy up front (ie Di Natale) - Im playing Udinese - is possible too ? I'll try it out tonight

[EdsFM]

Would you say having a striker with good Jumping / Heading / Height is a must have or is it possible to have a good /smart small guy up front (ie Di Natale) - Im playing Udinese - is possible too ? I'll try it out tonight

Well considering they're playing in the Complete Forward role, you really want an all-round player. Although if I had to pick, I'd say a player who can play the ball around well on the ground would probably be more influential than a target man type striker.

[Football Manager.]

Well considering they're playing in the Complete Forward role, you really want an all-round player. Although if I had to pick, I'd say a player who can play the ball around well on the ground would probably be more influential than a target man type striker.

Edin Dzeko type player?

[blue heron]

Question about the outside forwards: I've found that there are times when they seem not very involved in the play. When the centre forward has the ball, they stay out wide, while the CF turns around a defender or tries to dribble closer to the goal. Due to the wide men staying wide, the CF doesn't have many options to pass.

I've tried to set the wide men to 'cut inside', but I've found that putting them on roaming with normal wide play works better. What was the reasoning for not giving them roaming in the first place? Since the CF and all midfielders are also roaming, putting the wide men on roaming creates an even more fluid play, IMHO.

[EdsFM]

Edin Dzeko type player?

That would work well - yes. The ideal, though, is someone like Wayne Rooney.

Question about the outside forwards: I've found that there are times when they seem not very involved in the play. When the centre forward has the ball, they stay out wide, while the CF turns around a defender or tries to dribble closer to the goal. Due to the wide men staying wide, the CF doesn't have many options to pass.

I've tried to set the wide men to 'cut inside', but I've found that putting them on roaming with normal wide play works better. What was the reasoning for not giving them roaming in the first place? Since the CF and all midfielders are also roaming, putting the wide men on roaming creates an even more fluid play, IMHO.

I've had a number of people say this, although it's different when I use the tactic. The idea of not putting them on roaming is because the tactic needs a certain amount of width. Although, having played several hundred more games with the tactic since releasing this version, I can see the wing backs provide that. For version 2 you recommend maximizing the wide strikers roaming, then?

[blue heron]

It might be because I'm playing with a very good team (having Mata and Bale as the outside forwards), but their movement when set to roaming is rather intelligent. Plus, as you mentioned, the backs are also providing width.

It especially improves the play of the wing forward on the side where the ball isn't: with roaming, he's more inclined to position himself closer to the goal, which is far more dangerous than staying out wide. His wing back will stay out wide on this side, but further back, which is positionally better.

Also, I'm trying to get the midfielders more involved in the attacking play. It happens too often for my liking that they stay too far back, leaving the forwards with too few options to pass the ball to. I'm currently trying to find a balance between them getting forward more often, without them over-committing, which leaves the team vulnerable at the back.

[EdsFM]

It might be because I'm playing with a very good team (having Mata and Bale as the outside forwards), but their movement when set to roaming is rather intelligent. Plus, as you mentioned, the backs are also providing width.

It especially improves the play of the wing forward on the side where the ball isn't: with roaming, he's more inclined to position himself closer to the goal, which is far more dangerous than staying out wide. His wing back will stay out wide on this side, but further back, which is positionally better.

Also, I'm trying to get the midfielders more involved in the attacking play. It happens too often for my liking that they stay too far back, leaving the forwards with too few options to pass the ball to. I'm currently trying to find a balance between them getting forward more often, without them over-committing, which leaves the team vulnerable at the back.

I'll run some tests once I've got my laptop back re: wing forwards. I can definately see the argument for more roaming though and it's something I've considered playing with myself.

As for the midfielders getting involved, maybe, we're at the stage of the tactic where we essentially have to 'split' the midfield into going forwards and going back. That's another area I'm going to have a look at. Obviously I want all three of the trio to attack and defend, but I'm considering making a split so they are biased towards one are rather than a 50:50 split.