iluvfooty Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Hi I want to play the barca system well a 4-3-2-1 and i dont no what to set the midfield roles as with Xaxi, Busquets, and Iniesta. Also i know utd play 4-4-2 what were the roles of the 2 midfielders in the middle with Giggs and Carrick and was it really a 4-2-2-2 ? Thanks any Help would be appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Utd's was a 4-4-1-1/ 4-4-2 hybrid shape. Hernadez was the right-of-center Striker, Rooney played as a left-of-centre AMC with a 4 man midfield. Generally the shape resembled this: -------------------Hernandez-------- -------- Rooney------------------- Park----Carrick---Giggs---Valencia Evra----Vidic-------Rio--------Fabio -----------Van der Sar-------------- The roles were quite simple Hernandez - Poacher (Attack) Rooney - Advanced playmaker(attack) - With man-marking busquets Park- Wide midfielder (Support) Carrick - Deep-lying playmaker( Defend) Giggs- Advanced playmaker - (Support) Valencia - Winger (Attack) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage94 Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Utd's was a 4-4-1-1/ 4-4-2 hybrid shape. Hernadez was the right-of-center Striker, Rooney played as a left-of-centre AMC with a 4 man midfield. Generally the shape resembled this:-------------------Hernandez-------- -------- Rooney------------------- Park----Carrick---Giggs---Valencia Evra----Vidic-------Rio--------Fabio -----------Van der Sar-------------- The roles were quite simple Hernandez - Poacher (Attack) Rooney - Advanced playmaker(attack) - With man-marking busquets Park- Wide midfielder (Support) Carrick - Deep-lying playmaker( Defend) Giggs- Advanced playmaker - (Support) Valencia - Winger (Attack) Just one thing to add to this, Giggs played left of centre in midfield and switched with Park frequently in the first half and it was a permanent swap from the looks of it in the second half Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Perfect-Fm'er! Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Barca system is weird and extremely fluid. It is something like .. -------------Valdes ----Pique---------------Puyol---- Alves-------Busquets---------Abidal ---------Xavi---------------------- ---------------------Iniesta-------- --------------Messi---------------- --Pedro----------------------Villa-- They pick up the ball deep, Messi most advanced of a pretty much diamond midfield but Xavi/Iniesta are constantly looking to break the lines and then once they do then they are running at the opposition defence and then you saw the movement, a popular one being the two wingers Villa/Pedro driving inside, bringing the full backs inside, with then say (Xavi carrying the ball) Iniesta and/or Messi moving on the outside of the full back. They play regular bounce passes, just creating the extra yard of space and also making the opposition work that extra yard. That's my take on things anyway, unfortunately I have no idea how to replicate anything even close to that in a game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
furiousuk Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 A standard FM 4-5-1 (DM, 2CM, AMR, AML, ST) will give a fair approximation of the Barca shape although I haven't found a way for FM to fluidly swap positions and cover for a roaming player out-of-position yet. CBs - Probably not ball-playing defenders as they didn't play too many through-balls yesterday (they normally do). CDs, possibly a creative freedom boost or support role. FBs - WBs seems good but they tend to lose the ball (crossing & too many through-balls) so standard FBs on support works well and they still get forward whilst creating a passing option in midfield. Alves possibly on attack, Abidal definitely not. DM - Busquets didn't do a great deal creatively but held shape to allow Iniesta & Xavi more freedom. DM-Defend, possibly Anchor-man but I suspect the closing down would be too high. CMs - Advanced Playmaker - support. Works a treat but possibly need a roaming instruction, particularly for Iniesta. I suspect this would leave an FM side too disjointed though as Busquets & Xavi wouldn't necessarily cover very well. AMR/L - Inside Forward - Attack. They just bombard the goal. Possibly lower the crossing. ST - Complete Forward - Attack. Works a treat in FM although Messi dropped deeper in the game. Possibly lower mentality by selecting a support duty or lowering the run from deep. Might want to change the wide play to normal. The team instructions would be lots of creative freedom and closing down. DEFINITELY use default passing for this formation in FM, the central core of the team will be fairly close together (especially with Messi dropping deep) so they will pass short anyway but it allows them to swing the ball out to the FBs to maintain possession or fire one to the AMR/L moving forward. Philosophy in FM was probably balanced with control/standard. With the front 3 roaming (and possibly select the CM's too) and high creative freedom the mentalities will end up fairly fluid anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio MVP Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I'd say Park was defensive winger (support), carrick was central midfielder defend) and giggs deep lying playmaker support, valenica winger (support), rooney advanced playmaker attack and chicha poacher Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvfooty Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 whats the difference in roles between a central midfielder with a defend role and a ball winning defend midfield like Busquets, and what is Xavi midfield role ? Thanks.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin3 Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I've only started a save with Barca trying to re-create their style as much as possible and in my 4th game I've more or less cracked it. In my most recent game agaisnt Hercules I had 78% possession and won 4-0. The key match stats were,( I would post images but don't know how to): Shots 22 Clear cut chances 6 Long shots 6 Possession 78% Passes completed 91% The individual player passing stats were even more impressive: Xavi 98/103 pique 71/75 Busquets 69/74 Iniesta 69/72 Puyol 70/71 Alves 49/57 Those were the players with the most amount of passes, but altogher there was 651 passes attempted. My philosophy is Fluid control but quite a lot of tweaking made to to indiviual player instructionns. For instance, no player has run with ball often or try through balls often. It's a 4-3-3 shape with dani Alves in the WBR slot. All the players creative freedom, passing style and closing down settings are manual so there is no point going into detail, however they all have closing down of 20 and everyone has tight marking. If you would like to use my tactic, I'll put it up to download if someone kindly showed me how to. The team instructions are: Defensive line 18 Width 7 Tempo 7 Time wasting 7 Focus passing Through the middle Counter attack No Play offside Yes The player roles are: Valdes Goalkeeper (defend) Alves(WBr) Wing back (attack) Pique Central Defender ( defend) Puyol Central Defender (Defend) Abidal Wing back ( Support) Busquets Defensive midfielder ( defend) Xavi Deep-lying playmaker (support) Iniesta Advanced playmaker (Attack) Pedro Inside Forward (attack) Villa Inside Forward (attack) Messi Deep-lying forward (support) I know that Messi might be a Complete forward or Pique a ball-playing defender but as I said there is a lot of tweaks made to my tactic,so their roles fill out differently to what I have listed them as. That's why if you want to replicate their style in FM it would be better if I uploaded the tactic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvfooty Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 what about utds 2 in midfield centre, giggs and carrick what were them last night ? thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouchaldinho Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Barca system is weird and extremely fluid. It is something like ..-------------Valdes ----Pique---------------Puyol---- Alves-------Busquets---------Abidal ---------Xavi---------------------- ---------------------Iniesta-------- --------------Messi---------------- --Pedro----------------------Villa-- They pick up the ball deep' date=' Messi most advanced of a pretty much diamond midfield but Xavi/Iniesta are constantly looking to break the lines and then once they do then they are running at the opposition defence and then you saw the movement, a popular one being the two wingers Villa/Pedro driving inside, bringing the full backs inside, with then say (Xavi carrying the ball) Iniesta and/or Messi moving on the outside of the full back. They play regular bounce passes, just creating the extra yard of space and also making the opposition work that extra yard. That's my take on things anyway, unfortunately I have no idea how to replicate anything even close to that in a game.[/quote'] Your shape looks about right to me The-Perfect-FM'er. I honestly believe Barcelona's shape was more like a diamond/4-3-1-2 than a 4-3-3 formation. In reality, it is probably a hybrid diamond/4-3-3 formation. Certainly in FM, you'd be better off employing a diamond shape, in my opinion. Messi was playing the trequartista role at AMC. Undoubtedly a trequartista, he was given complete creative freedom and license to do what he liked, he was the focal point of Barcelona's play, and furthermore, he played in the hole frequently dropping deep and showing for the ball all of the time. In the old days on previous FMs, you'd play a back 4, a DM, two MCs, an AM and two STs with sarrows to get the desired effect, and that would just about be perfect in my view. These days, we have to rely on the 'moves into channels' instruction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouchaldinho Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Utd's was a 4-4-1-1/ 4-4-2 hybrid shape. Hernadez was the right-of-center Striker, Rooney played as a left-of-centre AMC with a 4 man midfield. Generally the shape resembled this:-------------------Hernandez-------- -------- Rooney------------------- Park----Carrick---Giggs---Valencia Evra----Vidic-------Rio--------Fabio -----------Van der Sar-------------- The roles were quite simple Hernandez - Poacher (Attack) Rooney - Advanced playmaker(attack) - With man-marking busquets Park- Wide midfielder (Support) Carrick - Deep-lying playmaker( Defend) Giggs- Advanced playmaker - (Support) Valencia - Winger (Attack) I'm not sure I would call Rooney a playmaker personally. More like the inside forward role from AMC to me. Rooney was essentially playing as a withdrawn forward in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouchaldinho Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Zonal Marking has it like this: Barcelona's shape basically like a diamond midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
retslagoon Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Barca plays 4123. Alves --- Mascerano --- Pique --- Abidal --------------- Busquet --------------- ---------- Xavi -------- Iniesta -------- ------ Villa ---- Messi ---- Pedro ------- Messi is trequartista, Pedro as Winger and Villa as Inside Forward. And also their swap their position (both of wingers) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sandman Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 this is hard to recreate. so far i've tried 4-1-2-3-0 but Messi has been injured so it hasn't worked. I'm now trying 4-1-1-2-2 with FR FL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sandman Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 choosing the correct width for the team is very hard, because irl Barca play very wide with their centerbacks when in control but play generally very narrow. also whilst in the last third the LB and RB play very wide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
retslagoon Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 this is hard to recreate.so far i've tried 4-1-2-3-0 but Messi has been injured so it hasn't worked. I'm now trying 4-1-1-2-2 with FR FL I don't think Barca play no forward, mate. Messi as centre forward, always drop deep to AMC position so he is trequartista/deep-lying forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_Cardinal Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I prefer Messi up front as a Trequartista than at AMC - with a low mentality, roaming and no forward runs this means that he still drops deep enough to create a diamond/4 man midfield, but unlike if you play him at AMC, he's really difficult to pick up - the importance of players not being static shouldn't be underrated, for playing him at AMC will just mean the opponent's defensive midfielder picks him up, whereas in reality the dropping is what causes such problems as well as the numerical advantage. I agree that it's a lot like a 4-3-1-2, but crucially, one that can defend the flanks comfortably. In attack it looks like a very attacking diamond - a great attacking shape, but they definitely defend as a 4-5-1 of sorts, so Villa/Pedro put pressure on the full back. As such, I think that they can only be an Inside Forward at AMRL/FRL, and Pedro/Villa will still run past Messi (this is important - they are deeper defensively, so they do run past him) and get into dangerous, central striking postions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 whats the difference in roles between a central midfielder with a defend role and a ball winning defend midfield like Busquets, and what is Xavi midfield role ?Thanks.. Ball winning midfielders press/close down more, and tackle more readily. Personally, I'd have Busquets as a defensive midfielder though, certainly this season. Xavi is a playmaker on the RL equivalent of a support duty, in FM the difference between a deep lying playmaker and an advanced playmaker is minimal if both are on support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sandman Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 im now playing nicely as barca 61+% each match. 4-1-2-AMC AMR ST (Villa on left SC as a wide complete forward support) Messi as a tweaked trequarista in AMC, Pedro inside forward, this isn't like for like though :\ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvfooty Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hi I am playing a 4-3-3, In midfield i have a deep lying playmaker and an advanced playmaker both on support and a ball winning midfielder (defend) in the middle, so does this mean i have to tick use playmaker in team instructions, in the defence i have my full backs on support when i playing against the gd teams in the prem, with attack on the full backs against not so gd, i also have two inside forwards on the wings and a advanced forward on his own the only issue I have is I keep getting beat against the gd teams in the league so has any 1 got any suggestions if i am playing the tactic correctly ? Thanks... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Valo Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Barcelona's side is really difficult to recreate. Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets tend to stay in a 10 yard triangular shape during build up play (When the ball's from Valdes to about halfway.) After that, the Wingbacks tend to charge forward, and Busquets becomes a centre back. So what you're looking for is something like this: Build Up: Iniesta----Xavi ---Busquets--- Piqué----Puyol Offensive: Abidal---Iniesta----Xavi---Alves ------------------------------- --Piqué-----Busquets-----Puyol The Centrebacks play very wide when Busquets drops back. (This is really difficult to replicate, as the midfield is narrow) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maz Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I think you should all check this out. This is possibly the best tactic to copy Barca in fm11. http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2011-tactics-training/69654-barcelona-xavi-passing.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluvfooty Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 which one normal or 2.1v Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maz Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 version 2.1 is the one am using and its great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotPotter Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Looking at an article on Zonal marking that is actually about Bolton but uses as Barca as a comparison in places, Barca had an average possession of 73.4% over this season, which is an insane stat. For this article they got their statistics from whoscored.com. This would be very hard to replicate on FM IMO. http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/05/24/bolton-owen-coyle-style-of-football/#more-6583 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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