My TEMPLATE i use for Starting Strategy, Roles & Duties for positions

[kymsheba]

This is a template i have devised which i have fine tuned over the last year and it seems to work well for any team or league.

Shot at 2011-06-15[/img]

So how do you use it let me show you by using my current tactic in the EPL. my tactic is a 3-2-2-2-1 or another way of putting it is 5-4-1.

Shot at 2011-06-15

So first things first just choose any formation or create a formation to your liking don't worry about Roles and duties yet just click through until you have the formation set up and then we will change team instructions and player roles and duties afterwards.

So now i have my formation as above lets go through the team instructions first.

Philosophy is always set to BALANCED for my teams i never use anything else. Starting strategy is determined by the Media's Prediction of how far up or down the ladder i am expected to finish found in the Information screen of your chosen Team. For me i was predicted to finish 4th this season so this puts me in the ATTACKING STRATEGY as shown at the bottom of the Template. Leave everything else on DEFAULT i find that the default values are pretty good and we will influence the tactic by our use of ROLES and DUTIES.

Now lets go through each Line of Zoning as you can see i have split the field into 6 ZONES (i didn't do the Sweepers line as i never use them).

Firstly GK ZONE. If you play Attacking Strategy you will be playing with the OFFSIDE TRAP ON which means you will choose a SWEEPER KEEPER on ATTACK DUTIES. If you played Standard or Defensive strategy the OFFSIDE TRAP will be OFF which means you would use a GOALKEEPER DEFEND on DEFEND DUTIES.

Next is the DC's i have 3 of them set to CENTRAL DEFENDER on DEFEND DUTIES with MAN MARKING in player instructions.

Following that on the next Zone is my 2 WB's, they are set to WING BACKS on AUTOMATIC DUTIES with ZONAL MARKING in the player instructions.

Next comes the 2 MC's, both are BOX TO BOX MIDFIELDERS on SUPPORT DUTIES with ZONAL MARKING in the player instructions.

This is then followed by the 2 AMC's set as TREQUARTISTA'S on ATTACK DUTIES with ZONAL MARKING in the players instructions.

Last but not least is the lone striker, he is set as POACHER on ATTACK DUTIES with ZONAL MARKING in the players instructions.

This template has been tested for the last year and has worked really well for me so i hope if you choose to follow the template i have made you should hopefully find success in both League and Cup wins.

Cheers,

Kymsheba (Mike)

[SWaRFeGa]

I'm guessing this should have been posted in the tactics forum

http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/18-Tactics-amp-Training-Discussion

It's a very basic description, don't you think? Just positions and whether to man-mark or zonal mark.

[kymsheba]

Yes it is a basic description, but after trying all different roles and duties combinations (literally hundreds of different combinations tested) i have narrowed it down to these few Roles and Duties which work the best, it is meant to be quick and easy to setup the roles and duties that is why i made it i have found if you stick to these roles and duties in the game you can't go wrong and will have success without having to try and make long and complicated formations with roles and duties with every option changed.

This is for the person who wants to set up their tactic quick and easy and get results straight away without turning it into a science lesson. I find that the game is easy to win using this basic template and there is no need for over complicating the game.

Cheers,

mike

[Cougar2010]

I'm really not a fan of people using templates like this as it leads to users being lazy, looking for a diablo type of tactic where they use the same one all the time then come on the forums complaining when they lose a match.

Tactics & strategy should vary from game to game and even during a match depending on a number of factors. Strength of opposition, star players for the opposition, home/away, opposition formation, weather, referee etc etc should all be considered before deciding on your strategy & tactics while during a match you should be able to react to what is happening on the pitch.

Looking at your template what concerns me the most is that you've fallen into the trap of thinking that defenders should defend, midfielders should support & forwards should attack which is just wrong and leads to the posts we see on the forum that can't cope with AI teams who defend in number before counter attacking.

[kymsheba]

I'm really not a fan of people using templates like this as it leads to users being lazy, looking for a diablo type of tactic where they use the same one all the time then come on the forums complaining when they lose a match.

Tactics & strategy should vary from game to game and even during a match depending on a number of factors. Strength of opposition, star players for the opposition, home/away, opposition formation, weather, referee etc etc should all be considered before deciding on your strategy & tactics while during a match you should be able to react to what is happening on the pitch.

Looking at your template what concerns me the most is that you've fallen into the trap of thinking that defenders should defend, midfielders should support & forwards should attack which is just wrong and leads to the posts we see on the forum that can't cope with AI teams who defend in number before counter attacking.

Hi Cougar2010,

First off thanks for the reply and i will try and answer best i can my reasoning.

Firstly this will not give you any DIABLO tactic and the tactic varies depending on the formation from year to year as you can see my current tactic is the one above 3-2-2-2-1 whereas the last season tactic was a 4-3-3 with 3 strung across the midfield ie:1 ML, 1 MC & 1MR with the 3 forwards also strung across the width of the forward line. So as you can see very different tactic to last years and i normally change my tactic depending on personnel if i have a high turnover the tactic changes dramatically but if hardly any turn over tactic either stays same or changes slightly. And definitely not 'LAZY' as i said i have tested hundreds of different combinations over the last year and ruthlessly cut it down to these roles and duties a lot of time and effort to find the most efficient uses of each positions roles and duties.

As for the second statement i have found i can win leagues and cups over the season using the one tactic and not changing it during a game i find it easy to do this and have had no trouble winning over the year so i can only go by what i have found works for me.

As for falling into the trap as you say... well all i can say is nope haven't fallen into any trap i have found those roles and duties are the most efficient for those positions and can only go by the data i accumulated over the last year. And i have never whinged or complained about losing a game ever on any forum, it is a fact you will lose games here and there that is a given so i can't really see how anyone should complain about losing i know i never do i just accept it and move on, and if you look at template again you will see the wide midfield position and wing backs as well as the FB's are on automatic which means they choose what to do depending on the situation and their mental abilities to read the game ie: they may defend support or attack depending on what they determine best at that time so not all defenders are defending or midfielders are supporting.

As for unable to cope with AI who defend in numbers before counter attacking that is rubbish i have no such troubles yes occasionally i may get beaten but over the season i always do well winning leagues or cups so i for one don't hold to that reasoning i find that theory flawed and i find using my template i normally do very well against that sort of situation. That's not to say i win everything all the time or never lose in that situation i am just saying more often than not i normally come out on top easily over the course of a season.

This game after all is easy you just need to do number crunching for recruiting players and setup a sound dependable formation and tactic.

hope i have explained my choices clearly and appreciate the points you raised.

Cheers,

mike

[SWaRFeGa]

And definitely not 'LAZY' as i said i have tested hundreds of different combinations over the last year

No. He means the people that may take your advice would be lazy. Surely it's better to create your own formations and tactics? Especially since you say you have "no trouble winning". I would feel like I cheated if I used your super TEMPLATE.

[kymsheba]

This is no super template it is just something I have put together that works well is all and I understand your point about other people but everyone needs help sometimes so this is for them to get a start and help them

[CityAndColour]

No. He means the people that may take your advice would be lazy. Surely it's better to create your own formations and tactics? Especially since you say you have "no trouble winning". I would feel like I cheated if I used your super TEMPLATE.

Don't use it then?

Perhaps you could come over to mine and show me how to set up and play my game too.

The bloke is just starting a thread showing what's worked for him and offering it to others if they want to use it. What's the harm?

[SWaRFeGa]

Perhaps you could come over to mine and show me how to set up and play my game too.

I've not told anyone how to set up and play their game. That was the OP.

[Vangelis21]

there is something I don't get... How can someone suggest playing our attackers as poachers or anything else when he doesn't know who our attackers are...

[CityAndColour]

I've not told anyone how to set up and play their game. That was the OP.

Where? All I found was "...so i hope if you choose to follow the template i have made you should hopefully find success in both League and Cup wins."

In other words, he's showing people what has worked for him and encouraging them to try it if they want to. If they don't, they don't have to. Not really sure the need for critical responses.

[SWaRFeGa]

Not really sure the need for critical responses.

Don't read it then?

Perhaps you could come over to mine and show me how to write more positive responses.

I'm just responding to a thread with some feedback of my own, whether it's good or bad. What's the harm?

[heathxxx]

Moved to Tactics Discussion.

[kymsheba]

CITYANDCOLOUR: thankyou for what you said, that was exactly what i meant, if they want to try it great if not that's fine i not pushing this onto anyone it is there if people are interested in it is all.

VANGELIS21: I not suggesting you have to use my template what i am saying is if you are going to use it obviously you may have different strikers such as target man, complete forward etc... you would need to swap over to Poachers to get the best out of the template is all i am saying and that is only if you are going to use it, i not saying use your deep lying forward as a poacher if he is not suited to a poachers role you would need to buy some players to fit into those roles if your current players cant play those positions.

Didn't mean for this to get all narky i just showing what has worked for me and if anyone is interested then by all means try it out and see if it helps you, it was just an interesting project i worked on in my spare time over the last year and just posting my results i found is all. Thanks for all the responses good and bad and hopefully some one may find this helps or is useful to them.

Cheers,

Mike

[mibsweden]

Awesome post, don't listen to the whiners. All this post does is add to the accumulated knowledge about tactics in FM 2011. You can take inspiration from this, and I like it. Does not mean I have to copy it exactly, but it will give me some extra knowledge. Maybe i will combone some of this tactic with some other tactical advice somewhere else. Like the W-M post that I really like.

[Midnight Rob]

:)good post kymsheba. i see many, many over complicated theories put forward by various people. your structure is simple and i so no reason whatsoever why it wouldnt be effective exactly as you describe.

[Macgyver0]

what starting strategy for team

A relegation Battler?

A middle position?

An European Spot?

sry i didnt see the tiny letters in the image.

[kymsheba]

MIBSWEDEN: Thanks for the encouragement and if someone can take one item from this and use it to their benefit then that is great.

MIDNIGHTROB: Exactly what i was trying to achieve by simplifying it down to the basics to provide a good solid base for Roles and Duties for any formation and then the user can modify as they see fit if they so desire.

MACGYVER0: Yeah sorry about the smaller print at the bottom of the template forgot to resize it ooops.

cheers,

mike

[dankrzyz]

Exactly what i was trying to achieve by simplifying it down to the basics to provide a good solid base for Roles and Duties for any formation and then the user can modify as they see fit if they so desire.

That's what the SI did with the Tactics Creator... but how to pick the combinations of roles - and the appropriate team instructions - is what would be useful to share. I didn't see a lot of insight into why one role over the other, or the team instructions that make the roles function together. Tell us more?

[kymsheba]

That's what the SI did with the Tactics Creator... but how to pick the combinations of roles - and the appropriate team instructions - is what would be useful to share. I didn't see a lot of insight into why one role over the other, or the team instructions that make the roles function together. Tell us more?

Team instructions were explained in original post mostly everything is left on default except Philosophy & Starting Strategy, to win at this game I found that I did not really have to change them at all the default values are actually pretty good contrary to popular belief, at least this is what i found.

As for why each role and duty over another well just to shorten it i started collecting and trying out formations and roles and duties and the results since FM11 release and did literally hundreds of trials and recordings of how successful each role and duty combined with each other was as you can imagine it is a HUMUNGOUS amount of data and it took almost just on a year on and off to collate all the results so if i was to try and post it up on here all the results it would be about 20 pages of posts long if not more and to be honest after almost a year of entering all this data down on paper then transferring it into a database and collating it i don't really want to write it all out as it will take ages and ages.

Suffice to say the roles and duties were the most successful over all the leagues and formations literally thousands of different things to enter and collate. Much too much effort to rewrite all that as FM12 would be out before i could finish it lol.

Cheers,

Mike

[Macgyver0]

I tried this, whit leicester i arrived middle of the season, they were 20th, predicted 10th i aplied this and missed the playoff by one point :| great

[kymsheba]

I tried this, whit leicester i arrived middle of the season, they were 20th, predicted 10th i aplied this and missed the playoff by one point :| great

Thanks for the feedback much appreciated.

Great!!! Glad to see it worked for you let me know how you go after a full season.

Cheers,

mike

[Mike J]

So basically you're saying don't use Deep-Lying Playmakers? Or Stopper Defenders or Inside Forwards in the AML/R positions?

Seems far too prescriptive to me. And then you say "you would need to buy some players to fit into those roles if your current players cant play those positions". Isn't that basically saying "buy the best Poacher you can find and play him as a Poacher"? Why not buy the best Complete Forward you can find and play him as a Complete Forward?

I think the reason this has attracted criticism is because you don't explain anything. Why choose those roles? How do they work together to create a winning tactic? What sort of football can we expect it to produce? How many teams and players have you tried it with?

[Marsupian]

Basically you say that you have found out that those roles you mentioned give better results than other roles. Couldn't it just be that your team is more suited to those roles and therefor they give better results? I am almost 100% sure that the roles I use for my arsenal side will give me better results than the ones you recommend. This is because they suit my team and more importantly the rules work well together. It's part of the beauty of making a good tactic, finding roles for your players so they work well together and win matches. I also think it's better to encourage new players to make a tactic using roles that make sense to them instead of prescribing them which ones to use.

[kymsheba]

So basically you're saying don't use Deep-Lying Playmakers? Or Stopper Defenders or Inside Forwards in the AML/R positions?

Seems far too prescriptive to me. And then you say "you would need to buy some players to fit into those roles if your current players cant play those positions". Isn't that basically saying "buy the best Poacher you can find and play him as a Poacher"? Why not buy the best Complete Forward you can find and play him as a Complete Forward?

I think the reason this has attracted criticism is because you don't explain anything. Why choose those roles? How do they work together to create a winning tactic? What sort of football can we expect it to produce? How many teams and players have you tried it with?

Ok here we go... when i said "you need to buy some players to fit etc...." it was in answer to VANGELIS21 specifically, who was asking about his current players he had in his squad, what i have given you is what i found to be the best ROLES and DUTIES for those zones over the course of literally countless hundreds of formations and duties and leagues and different teams over almost a years worth of data, so i am saying the ROLES and DUTIES for those positions are the best i have found after all the data was entered into a database and collated so in essence i am giving you the best ROLES and POSITIONS not telling you to go out and buy the best Complete Forward and play him as a Complete Forward i am saying whatever formation you use the data says the Poachers role is the best for a striker etc... as for why i chose those roles and duties it is guided by the best results over hundreds and thousands of games over all leagues and teams like i said this is almost a years worth of data i have collected and it is driven by the best success rates for the Roles and Duties over all formations that is how those roles and duties are chosen by statistic results.

MARSUPIAN: No it couldn't be that my team was better suited for that role etc... as this is data collected over all leagues and teams and every team has different players, so your argument doesn't get off the ground i'm sorry to tell you, because if you had read more carefully the test was done over hundreds of formations using every possible combination of roles and duties in every league and team this is based on statistical fact of the end results after almost a years worth of collecting and collating.

I also have never said you should use my template, what i did say if you WANT to use it and find it useful then great and if some newcomer or someone who is finding it difficult to get a good formation together then if they CHOOSE to follow what i have shown they will have a very good chance of success to start them on their way until they get to grips with the game and start fooling around themselves creating their own style and tactic but if this helps them on their way then fantastic if they CHOOSE NOT to use it that's fine as well i only put these results up for anyone who was interested in trying them out or reading them and getting some ideas is all, these are based on statistical data collated over almost a year.

One person has already responded with a positive result using it which is fantastic news for him.

I really don't know why there is this perception that a tactic has to be so complex with nearly all options changed when you can get the same results using virtually a default tactic with ROLES and DUTIES influencing the tactic instead of complex changes to every option.

I see this all the time when certain people ALMOST DEMAND that your tactic must have multiple changes to it or it won't work and shoot anyone down who says differently, absolute rubbish i say, I know i can equal if not better your results just by using my template and not having to change my tactic during the season or during a game.

As stated i am not sating this is how everyone should set their tactics up it's just a reference point for anyone needing help getting a good solid formation up that can win you stuff is all, whether you decide to use it or not is entirely up to the person in question.

hope this clears up your points.

Cheers,

Mike

[Morphiushell]

Ok my team is like this currently I was un beaten in 16 league games winning 15 drawing one

GK - whatever the default is

LB - FB - Auto

CB - Central Defender - Defend

CB - Central Defender - Defend

RB - FB - Auto

RCM - Advanced Playmaker - Support

LCM - Deeplying Playmaker - Support

AMR - Inside Forward - Attack (currently played 11 scored 10)

AML - Inside Forward - Attack

RST - Deep Forward - Support (Jelavic currently played 20 scored 21)

LST - Advanced Forward - Attack (Goodwillie currently played 11 scored 15) my other striker who rotates here is roughly on the same record

Are you telling me my team will perform even better if set like this

GK - Defend/Sweeper Keeper

LB - FB - Auto

CB - Central Defender - Defend

CB - Central Defender - Defend

RB - FB - Auto

RCM - Box to Box - Support

LCM - Box to Box - Support

AMR - Winger - Attack

AML - Winger - Attack

RST - Poacher

LST - Poacher

[kymsheba]

Ok my team is like this currently I was un beaten in 16 league games winning 15 drawing one

GK - whatever the default is

LB - FB - Auto

CB - Central Defender - Defend

CB - Central Defender - Defend

RB - FB - Auto

RCM - Advanced Playmaker - Support

LCM - Deeplying Playmaker - Support

AMR - Inside Forward - Attack (currently played 11 scored 10)

AML - Inside Forward - Attack

RST - Deep Forward - Support (Jelavic currently played 20 scored 21)

LST - Advanced Forward - Attack (Goodwillie currently played 11 scored 15) my other striker who rotates here is roughly on the same record

Are you telling me my team will perform even better if set like this

GK - Defend/Sweeper Keeper

LB - FB - Auto

CB - Central Defender - Defend

CB - Central Defender - Defend

RB - FB - Auto

RCM - Box to Box - Support

LCM - Box to Box - Support

AMR - Winger - Attack

AML - Winger - Attack

RST - Poacher

LST - Poacher

Statistically yes it should work out better, but why change it if you are doing well it is obviously working well with your current tactic. I would keep your current tactic.

People seem to be getting the wrong message i don't mean you should all change your tactics to my template, this was intended for those people who are struggling top put together a good formation with ROLES & DUTIES together it is a template for those needing help or those just starting out to get them off to a good solid formation and start to the game as well as a general guideline for those having trouble getting the right combination going.

So if your tactic is working or you are an experienced gamer then you don't really need it if you are having success, after all if something is working for you why change it???

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

mike

[Morphiushell]

so far regardless to how I play come the middle of the season I drop in form at first I thought it was all down to the weather but looking around here I think it is more to do with my players fitness and training etc.

I dont manage this as good as I should so going to work on that

[furiousuk]

I can't imagine worse advice for a new player than to follow this template as you haven't explained any of the logic behind it (other than saying that you've tested every possible combination in the game and found this to be the best). Why is it the best? If I was a new player, what could I expect to see? If it wasn't working for me, what could I do? Why do I need poachers? I want crosses to a big target man, why shouldn't I use wingers in the MR/ML slot and a target man as one of my STR?

If you answered some of these questions, or at least put forward a theory/idea as to why these work, then people might understand what you're trying to get at.

I applaud your effort but the TC creates templates for you that are balanced for each formation that is preset, why should people prefer your template over those provided by the game? If I didn't want to worry about tactics AT ALL then I would just use the TC to provide a basic 442 and get on with it and I know that I could be very very successful. If my favourite team in RL played a narrow, pressing game then I don't need to know anything about tactics and I can use the TC to set this up. If I'm a beginner but I know that my favourite STR is a big target man in real life then I'll set him as a target man using the TC (takes only a couple of clicks) and he'll probably play pretty well because most of the other roles/duties are set up as the TC dictates.

My advice for new players who don't want the hassle of picking apart tactics is to use the TC as a template, then you don't have to keep looking at a print-out or switching to your web-browser to look at a template, the template will be in the game.

[Midnight Rob]

I can't imagine worse advice for a new player than to follow this template...

I guess your imagination is limited. Would you like a link to worse advice?

The guy made a post sharing his philosophy on how he plays the game, it works for him. Some guy called S.Fraser does the same sort of thing, some people go in raptures only I can't understand what he's babbling on about but let it go. If you don't like it, just let it be or at least try it before just dissing it.

[kymsheba]

I guess your imagination is limited. Would you like a link to worse advice?

The guy made a post sharing his philosophy on how he plays the game, it works for him. Some guy called S.Fraser does the same sort of thing, some people go in raptures only I can't understand what he's babbling on about but let it go. If you don't like it, just let it be or at least try it before just dissing it.

Thanks for the support MIDNIGHT ROB that is exactly what i am doing sharing my Philosophy and my test results and if FURIOUSUK bothered to read post #20 he would have his answer why each role and duty was chosen.

And i have not told anyone to follow this advice i said IF THEY CHOOSE to do so then good for them and i hope it helps them but I have NEVER once pushed this onto a new comer or experienced user. This is exactly why i don't post very often, all too often the so called experts whose view does not follow my own or someone else's when they put up a result or theory they get shot down and told they are rubbish etc... Crikey! what was i thinking putting this up, at least some people find it of interest or help.

May i suggest like MIDNIGHT ROB pointed out if you don't like it then fine but please enough of the knit picking it wasn't put up to have a debate about, it was put up to share almost a years worth of data of the most successful roles and duties, i only put it up to share the results and maybe provide a template for someone who was having trouble is all.

You see posts all the time saying they cant get a tactic to work well this will provide them the framework to use for a strong dependable formation is all it was meant to be for until they get comfortable making their own tactics and theories is all.

cheers,

mike

[Marsupian]

MARSUPIAN: No it couldn't be that my team was better suited for that role etc... as this is data collected over all leagues and teams and every team has different players, so your argument doesn't get off the ground i'm sorry to tell you, because if you had read more carefully the test was done over hundreds of formations using every possible combination of roles and duties in every league and team this is based on statistical fact of the end results after almost a years worth of collecting and collating.

I also have never said you should use my template, what i did say if you WANT to use it and find it useful then great and if some newcomer or someone who is finding it difficult to get a good formation together then if they CHOOSE to follow what i have shown they will have a very good chance of success to start them on their way until they get to grips with the game and start fooling around themselves creating their own style and tactic but if this helps them on their way then fantastic if they CHOOSE NOT to use it that's fine as well i only put these results up for anyone who was interested in trying them out or reading them and getting some ideas is all, these are based on statistical data collated over almost a year.

One person has already responded with a positive result using it which is fantastic news for him.

I really don't know why there is this perception that a tactic has to be so complex with nearly all options changed when you can get the same results using virtually a default tactic with ROLES and DUTIES influencing the tactic instead of complex changes to every option.

I see this all the time when certain people ALMOST DEMAND that your tactic must have multiple changes to it or it won't work and shoot anyone down who says differently, absolute rubbish i say, I know i can equal if not better your results just by using my template and not having to change my tactic during the season or during a game.

As stated i am not sating this is how everyone should set their tactics up it's just a reference point for anyone needing help getting a good solid formation up that can win you stuff is all, whether you decide to use it or not is entirely up to the person in question.

hope this clears up your points.

Cheers,

Mike

Let me just say that I never said nor do I think a tactic has to be complex. I have used tactics where I just use the TC to give my players roles and duties and set the team instructions and didn't touch a single slider. I think it's a great way to make tactics but deciding the roles and duties from statistics and years of data collection just sounds wrong to me. It's an experiment with too many variables to get concrete data from.

Did you test every formation using every combination of roles possible? Did the roles you chose get the best results in every formation? Did they perform better by a large margin? How long did the teams perform better this way? How many teams were tested? Did you test with different team instructions or not? Over how many games did you test these thousands of different combinations and with how many teams? Do you have the data stored somewhere? How big should the difference in performance be before you can say one set of roles and duties is clearly better than the rest? Did these roles come out on top of any other combination with every formation used? (I know you answered some of these in previous posts, I'm just illustrating how many variables and difficulties this experiment brings).

If you do have the data to back up your claim that this combination of roles is clearly superior to other combinations this is pretty big stuff and probably something SI should know about. I however doubt that this is the most effective way to create a tactic even using only the TC. I also think it's a non logical, non football and not a fun way to make a tactic for your team but that is just my opinion.

I do applaud the effort put into testing this and would really like to see the data if that is possible. I also think it's good that you try to help people who struggle with making tactics and show them what works for you.

I also didn't mean to sound that harsh but it's just that running a test to see which roles are the "best" is a very nonsensical way to approach the game. I'm a big fan of approaching the game like real life football and building tactics through "football logic" as it's a relatively easy and fun way to build a good tactic that works because it's supposed to work. The approach of trying to find the "best" tactic or "best" roles just doesn't seem fun to me and it doesn't help people understand the game (or rather understand football). If you would have given reasons why these roles are superior or why it is a good way to make a tactic than it could have had made lot more sense to me but now you just say it works because it works and if you use it you will beat the game. I highly doubt it works that well and I don't think people will get the most out of the game with this approach.

Still everyone is free to play the game how they want and I don't want to or should criticize your approach. It's a game and approaching it like real football won't always give the best results and I can see why people have more fun approaching it in a different way.

btw. I know it takes a long time to post the data here but if you can just upload it in it's current file format to something like box.net or megaupload that should be relatively easy.

[kymsheba]

Yes tested every formation with every role and duty combination possible this is part of the reason it has taken almost a year to do and it was mainly for my own interest anyways and wasn't going to share with anyone as didn't think anyone would be interested really it just sort of evolved from me finding it interesting the results to deciding to share with anyone who was interested, was just a fun experiment to do alongside playing the game, i am curious about these types of things ... bit geeky really lol.

I didn't say these roles and combinations were superior i said statistically they are better over the course of a lot of results. Of course you can get good results using different combinations but i have just boiled it down to the best roles i found statistically speaking to provide a good sound base for a successful tactic is all mainly for those people who are having trouble getting a tactic to work for them or a beginner to let him/her get off to a good start until they learn the in's and out's is all.

as for posting the data i am not on broadband i am still on dial-up with limited download and the data base file in question is just under 2 gig in size and that is zipped up, so no way i can upload it would take months of my download limit to upload it. I only on 250mb a month.

mike

[Morphiushell]

kymsheba would you mind posting some screenies of how you are performing using this template.

Let us see your league position and goals etc quite interested in this and how it works long term

[furiousuk]

I have read post #20, I read the whole debate because I'm always interested by new information and I liked your presentation and that you bothered to try and help somebody else out. Unfortunately I don't agree with you. The best advice for new players to FM is to play the game, use the TC to create your tactics, use your real-life knowledge of football to get players and then read the stickies at the top of this forum. I agree you haven't pushed this template on to anyone and for making you doubt about posting again (of which I am a part) I can only apologise and encourage you to continue to bring items to the table.

If you'll notice, the guys that pick holes in your template are asking questions. From my experience, people don't just shoot down the ideas of others in the Tactics & Training forum. It's well moderated and wouldn't be tolerated. If you have a new idea, particularly one that bucks popular opinion, you're going to have to be prepared to back it up and just saying, I've done loads of testing for a year won't cut it.

My long save is going better than expected at the moment but when I falter (which will happen at some stage) using this template will absolutely and categorically make my team worse. If I used it before I understood how the game works then I would never understand why it wasn't working and you've provided no information as to how I should progress towards getting your template to work other than saying 'buy appropriate players'. I could provide a template that vastly differs from yours but given the right players would work just as well. I don't agree with everything others post here (such as some of the names that have been mentioned) but they take the time to explain their philosophy or rationale and, even if I don't agree, I can understand why and how conclusions have been made. Just saying, I've put a year's worth of effort into this tells me almost nothing.

I'll reiterate the end of my last post so I don't get accused of flaming again: I applaud your effort, I just don't agree this will help the casual (or otherwise) player at all.

[skintsaint]

I used this template once to set up a flat 442 at Chelsea for a season. Won everything using wolftits teamtalks also. Will have to try it again sometime.

[kymsheba]

I used this template once to set up a flat 442 at Chelsea for a season. Won everything using wolftits teamtalks also. Will have to try it again sometime.

Glad to hear that it worked for you!

i have also recently accepted the job from Manchester City that i was offered and i must say do you get some money thrown at you they are hugely MEGA RICH, anyways i have used the above template and setup a flat 4-4-2 which is going very well i will post some screen shots up soon when i have some time to show you my progress so far.

cheers,

kymsheba (mike)

[wwfan]

Your template is very interesting. It looks like it replicates a very British style game, except with an Italian style attacking combination (creative AMC / poaching front man). I can see how it would be very successful with an Attacking strategy as the role combinations are very logical. However, I think it would be lacking if you tried to play a deep, possession focused counter-attacking game. I think you'd find that the front man was getting overly isolated and that the TQs weren't putting in enough leg work to help you choke opposing attacks.

[skintsaint]

ah forgot to say I had to use one striker as a advanced forward, seems to work a bit better.

[TheMister]

Hey Mike, looks like a nice bit of work; and thanks for sharing it with everyone. I haven't tried it out yet, but I definitely will in the future. I TRY to keep things simple, but I still have a set of 6 tactics LOL.

I admire your patience too, with the feedback - from people who haven't even tried it out; the method just doesn't fit with their philosophy. Everyone just plays their game differently. Some like to get under the skin of the game and some just like to play. Nice to see WWFan with a balanced comment for you though.

Some get confused with the game and give up. I think if those people could just get playing and winning some games they'd keep playing longer and THEN want to learn more from there. Even if this helps a few of those guys well done mate.

[ham_aka_stam]

I must applaud the amount of statistical analysis you say you've done. And if this is the way you choose to play the game, then to put a year's worth of research into it shows dedication.

However, you cannot be surprised that people have questioned you and your methods. Your post states that these were shown to be the "best" options to choose, but you don't go any way into trying to explain why, or even what you were using to determine good vs bad, your post doesn't once refer to any footballing logic or principles, or what style of play your suggestions tend to give.

You've treated tactics in FM as a statistical exercise, and not a footballing exercise, and this is why the majority of posters in here have questions of the way you do things, because the vast majority of people in this area of the tactics forum make decisions based on footballing reasons, not statistical ones.

Some people have found this useful, so you've done well to share it, and I'm sure there are other people who want some simple advice on how to set up a tactic quickly and easily without needing any decisions from them. But without explaining how you came to these decisions, it's not going to be to everyone's taste.

And it's my opinion, contrary to yours, that most new players who need advice would be better off learning about the tactical tools available to them, and using real footballing principles to set up their team.

This is no slight on your way of playing or your decision to post it, just that it is not going to be for everyone.

[wwfan]

You've treated tactics in FM as a statistical exercise, and not a footballing exercise, and this is why the majority of posters in here have questions of the way you do things, because the vast majority of people in this area of the tactics forum make decisions based on footballing reasons, not statistical ones.

The major British contribution to tactical theory focused almost exclusively on stats. The Liverpool transfer policy under Dalglish also focuses on stats, albeit it different ones. Statistical analysis has its place. What is interesting is his conclusion on roles being so close to how I'd interpret British football.

[ham_aka_stam]

Good point. The idea of the team being set up in bands of Attack, Support, Defend is inherently British. But equally, whilst British football has never been a pioneer in "between the lines" play, there is always an emphasis on splitting the band to a certain extent, the "British Big-Man Little-Man" partnership being one example.

But my point in the quoted section is that whilst it's great that statistics back up certain choices, if you want anyone to take it seriously you need to explain what statisics were used, how much difference the tests showed etc. etc.

That is the one problem with taking a scientific approach in anything, if you're not thorough in your reporting, no-one will treat your work as credible.

Dalglish's statisticians will be informing him which stats they believe are most important, and which players satisfy those stats. They won't just say "Buy him, don't buy him, play him there, don't play him there."

[kymsheba]

TheMister: hi mate thanks for your thoughts and comments and yes the feedback has been more in depth than i thought it would as in i wasn't wanting a discussion on how i came to these findings or a philosophical discussion on the positions and roles etc... it was just put up for anyone who was struggling to get into the game and start winningas a jump off point so they could enjoy this brilliant game more before they started delving into the tactics on their own. A few of my friends struggled to like the game and couldn't be bothered playing because they were having bad results etc... so i gave them my template and just asked them to give it another go and it worked for them and now they are hooked on it when they were about to give it away they are now also developing their own tactics and working things out in there own styles which is exactly why i put it up on here to help other people to start off before they get discouraged from playing the game.

ham_aka_stam: G'day mate, i understand your points entirely and i also would encourage people to do their own thing as well as in my previous comment to TheMister this was only put up for them to use if they want to to get them started and then for them to develop their own style and work out what suits them best, nothing else was intended for this template just a general starting point for them to get into the game and discover how good this game gets the further in you look into it etc... i was urged by my mates to put it up for others who may be in the same state they were they were getting frustrated in not doing as well as they thought they should be and were getting discouraged from playing it is all but i fully understand peoples negativity to my template as such but please those people, i am in no way saying you guys are wrong or any such thing in fact to those guys i have gone out of my way to not suggest any such thing to people. But i enjoy reading all the posts that have responded even the negative ones it has certainly sparked a lot of reaction from people which was not what i was intending this was just a quick easy way to use a basic template to get the best out of any team before you use your own creations is all for those that were struggling to play. As for backing my findings up i really don't see the point in doing that is was only put up for those people who were struggling to help them is all so they can get the mopst enjoyment out of this fantastic game, before they created their own tactics and got to gerips with the game as it can be confusing how to create a successfull tactic for a new comer to the game is all.

thankyou to everyone who has posted it real has been good even the negative posts spark a certain creativity i find, i mean how can someone improve and get better unless they listen and take on board both sides of a discussion.

I hope to post some pics of where i am at with Manchest City after they offered me the job at the end of last seaon, i must say Manchester City are a monster in the money area of the game massive resources at ones disposal it is staggering how much money keeps getting pumped into the club in this game. With these resources i am currently doing extremely well so far so hope to get these pics up soon i hope.

cheers,

kymsheba (mike)

[kymsheba]

hi here are my current results game year is 2020 got offered Manchester City position end last year (man they have a lot of money available to them).

Current League Ladder (lost League Cup Final to Man Utd they scored winner with 3 mins left on clock ... grrrr oh well can't win them all lol.

My flat 4-4-2 using my template.

My squad i inherited and added to with the vast sum of money available to me when i took over .

i have now used nearly all my bandwodth for the month and am thinking of upgrading my bandwidth further so i can post more pics later if people are interested.

Cheers,

kymsheba (Mike)

[badmankg]

Snip

all i can say is wow this template is what its about. i'm playing as landskrona and i have only played 2 matches for friendlies but i'm impressed by it. won 4-2 and 2-0 in both of them and the team although really crap are playing some solid football

[sneek]

what if i play a regular 4-4-2, should i set both my strikers as poachers?

[kymsheba]

yes just follow template.

[sneek]

yes just follow template.

well tried it with a 4-4-2 but didn´t really work with my Liverpool squad, lots of games ended up with results like 4-3, 2-4 and so on. Changed to a 4-5-1 worked great

Have you also done some statistics for what formation that this template works the best?

In my 4-4-2 i actually played with wingers AML AMR

GK - sweeper attack

FB auto - zone

CB def - man

CM box to box supp - zone

AML+AMR Winger Att - zone

FC Poacer - zone

And i used Balanced/Attack

Did i do anything wrong? And should i always use Attacking strategy even if im up against United at Old Trafford?