Training, my new schedule and why.

[qqq]

Introduction

Hey all, I have been meaning to contribute a decent post to these boards for some time as I have read so many interesting articles and posts by the community, it is high time I at least made some effort to join in.

I am in the first stage of a new training regime, my old one works well for me, but I am a self confessed tinkerer and I like to push to the boundaries to see what may happen.

Firstly, I play a very creative and free flowing 4-2-4/4-4-2 counter attack style. I do not use the new tactic creator but for the purpose of this post I have re-created my tactic as closely as possible so as to make these new training schedules.

I then looked at what areas the game suggests are key for the player roles, these will be highlighted in the tactics screen, I noted them down and then looked at what training category was required in order to improve these areas.

Let's get started.

The first thing I do is to put both Strength and Aerobic sliders onto 12 clicks to the right for all schedules, I will adjust these very slightly later on if needed but I have always used that setting and it seems to work fine.

So, onto the first regime.

Central defender – Defend, positions 2-3

You can see from the chart below that my Central defender needs most of his training in the Defending category, so I pull that slider all the way to the right. I then pull the Tactics slider to one place less than the Defending setting and the two remaining sliders to one place less than the Tactic setting. This represents the priorities in order of this position. At this stage, the Workload bar has gone through the roof and clearly needs to be adjusted for the sake of keeping my players fit and not upset and injured. So my method is to equally reduce the four sliders one click at a time until the Workload bar drops into Medium. Now is the time to use your own thoughts as to the Strength and Aerobic sliders, remember, they are both set to twelve at this stage, so lets have a look at how these settings are poignant in my tactical philosophy. My Defenders play deep and very rarely venture out of the zone so Pace is less of a priority, however, I do require them to be a physical presence and this requires a bit of extra muscle, So I take one click of the Aerobic setting and add that to the Strength setting. Attacking is not required and thus will sit on zero for the sake of this testing period.

Key attributes…………………….Training category required

Heading……………………….………Ball control

Marking………………………….…….Defending

Tackling…………………………......Defending

Composure……………………….….Shooting

Concentration……………………..Defending

Decisions……………………………..Tactics

Determination……………………...Can’t be trained

Positioning…………………………...Tactics

Jumping ……………………………….Aerobic

Strength ……………………………..Strength

Wing Backs - Attack, positions 4-5

My Wing backs are a constant threat to the opposition but rarely find themselves in a goal scoring position, so Shooting is on zero, but the role requires them to be skilled at both defending and winger duties. Strength over Aerobic was because Work rate and Stamina training was needed just that tiny bit more, again I will monitor this as time goes by.

Key attributes…………………….Training category required

Crossing……………………………..Attacking

Dribbling……………………………..Ball control

Marking…………………………..….Defending

Tackling………………………….…..Defending

Off the ball………………………..Tactics

Positioning…………………….…..Tactics

Teamwork……………………………Tactics

Work rate……………………….….Strength

Acceleration…………………….…Aerobic

Stamina………………………………Strength

Deep lying play maker - Support, position 7

The Tactical side of this role is evident so this gets a health amount of attention, but this player also needs to be a good all rounder as he will be involved in a majority of what goes on in the match. The role asks him to lean on the side of creating a good move slightly more than defending and this is reflected in this regime.

Key attributes…………………….Training category required

First touch……………………….…Ball control

Passing……………………………….Attacking

Tackling…………………………….…Defending

Technique…………………………..Ball control

Composure………………………….Shooting

Creativity…………………………….Attacking

Decisions…………………………….Tactics

Off the ball…………………………Tactics

Positioning…………………….……Tactics

Teamwork……………………….….Tactics

[qqq]

Central midfield – Support, position 6

Very similar to the DLP but with a bit more running so I taking a click off Aerobic and putting it on Strength. I ask this player to be a strong midfield presence but to also help out up front when possible, not a huge goal scorer but has a great amount of assists and that is why he trains hard in Tactics and Attacking.

Key attributes………………….….Training category required

First touch……………………………Ball control

Long shots……………………………Shooting

Marking…………………………..…..Defending

Passing………………………….…….Attacking

Tackling…………………………..……Defending

Creativity……………………………..Attacking

Decisions………………………….….Tactics

Determination……………………...Can’t be trained

Off the ball……………………………Tactics

Positioning……………………………Tactics

Teamwork…………………………….Tactics

Work rate…………………………….Strength

Winger/Advanced play maker/Inside forward – Attack, positions 8-9

It was hard to find a similar role using the tactic creator, so this player has ended up with three descriptions. The two Winger/Advanced play maker/Inside forwards in my team are the heart and soul, the main creative spark. They will score many, many goals and also assist the Strikers with crosses and through balls. These players are asked to run at pace at the full backs and the defence, the free role they are given allows them to cut inside, run the chalk line or drop behind my advancing Wing Backs to offer them an outlet. Once you get this player trained up, don't let him go.

Key attributes…………………….Training category required

Crossing……………………………..Attacking

Dribbling…………………………..…Ball control

Finishing……………………..……..Shooting

First touch……………………..….Ball control

Passing……………………….………Attacking

Technique……………………………Ball control

Anticipation………………….…….Tactics

Creativity…………………………….Attacking

Decisions……………………….……Tactics

Flair ………………………………..….Ball control

Off the ball………………………...Tactics

Team work…………………………..Tactics

Acceleration…………………………Aerobic

Agility…………………………….…...Aerobic

Balance………………………..….….Aerobic

Pace …………………………..….....Aerobic

Complete forward – Attack, position 11

Very similar to the above regime and also the role is very similar but in a more central part of the pitch, all aspects of the attack and attacking midfield roles are needed for this player to be effective. Linking with the wide men, the midfield and the poacher, also being half decent in the wide positions is helpful as this player will often swap with the left winger at times.

Key attributes…………………….Training category required

Dribbling……………………………..Ball control

Finishing ……………………..…….Shooting

First touch ………………………..Ball control

Heading……………………………...Ball control

Long shots ………………….…….Shooting

Passing………………………….……Attacking

Technique……………………………Ball control

Anticipation…………………….….Tactics

Composure …………………………Shooting

Creativity…………………………….Attacking

Decisions………………………….…Tactics

Determination………………….….Can’t be trained

Off the ball………………………...Tactics

Teamwork…………………………...Tactics

Acceleration…………………………Aerobic

Agility……………………….………...Aerobic

Balance……………………………….Aerobic

Jumping……………………………….Aerobic

Pace…………………………………...Aerobic

Strength……………………………..Strength

Poacher – Attack, position 10

Quick off the mark, sharp as a pin, cool and deadly, that is all I want from this player.

Key attributes…………………….Training category required

Dribbling…………………….………..Ball control

Finishing…………………….………..Shooting

First touch……………………………Ball control

Anticipation………………………….Tactics

Composure………………….……….Shooting

Off the ball…………………………..Tactics

Acceleration…………………………Aerobic

Agility……………………………..……Aerobic

Balance…………………………….…Aerobic

Pace…………………………………...Aerobic

[qqq]

Sweeper keeper – Support, position 1

A last chance for the defence is our Sweeper Keeper but the main priority will always by between the sticks.

Key attributes…………………….Training category required

Aerial ability…………………………GK Handling

Command of the area…………Tactics

Communication……………….……Tactics

Eccentricity…………………….……Can’t be trained

Handling………………………..…....GK Handling

Reflexes…………………………...….GK Shot stopping

Rushing out…………………….……Tactics

Composure………………………..…GK Shot stopping

Concentration…………………....GK Shot stopping

Creativity…………………………....Can’t be trained

Decisions…………………………....Tactics

Positioning……………………….….Tactics

Acceleration………………………..Aerobic

Agility…………………………….…...Aerobic

Pace……………………………….....Aerobic

So, "OI wake up" there you have it, my new training regime laid bare. It is very easy to copy it for your tactic if you so desire, just look at your own players and see what there main skills need to be for the position you ask them to play. I have only just started this schedule, about 16 game days, so it is a work in progress and by no means a massive tactical lesson.

I have seen so many posts recently about training and the like and I felt I would like to share my approach with anyone that wants to read about it. who knows, I may even help someone in the proccess.

Thanks for reading and take care.

Jon...

[ham_aka_stam]

If you play a counterattacking tactic, do you not consider your Defender's passing ability as important at all?

[furiousuk]

I used to use a system like this and found it generally works well.

I think its crucial that you think about what skill-set you want from the typical player in each position. No point sticking wide players on a schedule for dribbly, crossy wingers if your wingers are setup to make a beeline for goal to score.

Whats your overall workload? Is it one off heavy?

I've found that a determined, professional squad can handle a notch or 2 into heavy with no problems, if their natural fitness is high they won't suffer major losses of condition either.

[qqq]

If you play a counterattacking tactic, do you not consider your Defender's passing ability as important at all?

A very valid point, this is still under construction and I will monitor any drop offs from the passing, they tend to use the players close to them due to the restrictions on Creativity, but they do hoof it up the field every now and again. (added to my notes)

[qqq]

I used to use a system like this and found it generally works well.

I think its crucial that you think about what skill-set you want from the typical player in each position. No point sticking wide players on a schedule for dribbly, crossy wingers if your wingers are setup to make a beeline for goal to score.

Whats your overall workload? Is it one off heavy?

I've found that a determined, professional squad can handle a notch or 2 into heavy with no problems, if their natural fitness is high they won't suffer major losses of condition either.

Yes, one off the heavy stuff. I think your comment is very interesting, I have never gone beyond the last stage of medium before but as my squad are as you quoted it does give room to tweak even further.

The Wingers in my game are total heroes and just scare the opposition to death, I have six really excellent players for those positions and feel lucky to have got them but they do have to work hard, so far they have scored 88 and assisted 77.

[furiousuk]

Thats an impressive haul. I use 1 central FC supported by 2 inside forwards who get most of my goals in a similar fashion to your guys. My wing-backs are in the FB slot and they provide width for my team so they have a lot of work to do which meant they finished the game with a lower condition, I tried a lower workload just for those players to help them regain condition but didn't find that a couple of clicks made much difference. I figure as high as possible without causing additional fatigue or injury risk is the best solution, of course some players don't really need any further shaping

[qqq]

If you look on the analysis page for you FB's check out there average positions. My WB's will play mostly here (below)

8

And as you can see, they push right up behind the wingers and they average 7.4 miles per game. I think the higher starting position may help but I am not sure.

[furiousuk]

Interestingly my FB positioning is almost the same despite starting from the FB position rather than the WB. Mine average around 12km (7.5m) as well and it seems they fulfil a very similar role to yours even though their starting position differs. A lot has been written about the ME 'sticking' players in their formational position, I've often thought that the ME actually does a good job of providing positonal variation based on more than just their starting position and this certainly seems to back that up. I'd wager that we set up our FB's in a very similar manner.

How long have you been testing your training routines for? Are your players progressing as expected/hoped?

[qqq]

1 month and 8 days (game time) so far and a lot of up and down arrows as I thought there would be in the opening months. They seem to be going in the way I predicted so that is good but I only have two games left to play so it was a stupid time to start this on my part. One thing to note is that the improvements in say Ball control for my WB's won't necessarily go onto the exact attribute that the player needs but I am powerless to affect that through the schedules. I can of course tweak that with the individual training focus drop down menu.

As for our WB-FB settings, mine are mostly centred and the mentality is 10. I used to think that I had to set a very high mentality to create great attacking football, simply not the case and I have a much better tactic now that I ditched that idea. I think that the starting position does play a small part in the overall effect but really it has so many factors that we can adjust, not to mention how the player himself reacts to the system we have created for them. Chuck the PPM's into that equation and it starts to get complicated.

[furiousuk]

I'm interested to see how it pans out as they are close to my old training schedules but I used to have significantly higher physical training (this mirrored my team ethos).

The up and down arrows I assume are on the training screen and these just refer to a change in training intensity for each category as far as I know, it won't necessarily result in a drop or redistribution of attributes on its own per se.

Are you going to stick youngsters (not youth) on these schedules too? Are you worried that they won't get the boost to physicals they might need?

Also, have you tried any pre-season routines before? I've had great success with mine and just wondered if you'd tried anything as you're approaching the off and then pre season periods.

[qqq]

I will keep you informed.

Mostly the first team will be on it, any young players that need a boost to the physicals will stay where they are, I have never bothered with a pre-season routine, I tend to let the Ass man organise the friendlies then I set up a few more so that all first team players get plenty of match fitness. I like this time of the year as I give some of the youth and reserve team some action to see if they are going to fit in.

[Shake Appeal]

One thing I would say is don't be afraid to hit Intensive for crucial categories. My own schedules are always less 'balanced' than the ones I see on the forums, but I love the results I get. For example, my current schedule for 'Anchor Men' (very defensively-minded CM/DMs) has Tactics and Defending maxed and Strength not far from Intensive. Usually I identify the key category or two, max or near-max them, and then tailor the rest of the attributes until I hit close to Heavy (depending on my facilities and coaches). As far as I'm aware, the relationships between the sliders is more important than the actual number of notches (not incl. overall workload).

[herenow]

A question for you, qqq: Are you still playing FM10? The training sliders in FM11 don't have those little hashmarks like the ones in your images (I'm talking about the marks that can be seen at about the 35%, 65% and 95% points in each slider).

Also, one of the steps you described in your very first item (central defenders) can't actually work. Because if one were to do as you say ...

- slide STRENGTH and AEROBIC each to 12

- slide DEFENDING all the way right

- slide TACTICS one notch less from there

- and slide BALL CONTROL one notch less from THERE

... then the final slider (SHOOTING) can only be moved part of the way across -- not all the way to the same position as BALL CONTROL like you say -- because the overall load will have already maxed out at "very heavy," preventing any sliders from going further.

(Yes, I know you say you eventually adjust the overall load downward anyway, but that's only after you've got all the sliders placed. At least that's the way you described it.) So again, I'm wondering if you're actually playing FM11 here, or if this is based on an older version of the game.

Thanks! I appreciate your advice here.

[qqq]

A question for you, qqq: Are you still playing FM10? The training sliders in FM11 don't have those little hashmarks like the ones in your images (I'm talking about the marks that can be seen at about the 35%, 65% and 95% points in each slider).

Also, one of the steps you described in your very first item (central defenders) can't actually work. Because if one were to do as you say ...

- slide STRENGTH and AEROBIC each to 12

- slide DEFENDING all the way right

- slide TACTICS one notch less from there

- and slide BALL CONTROL one notch less from THERE

... then the final slider (SHOOTING) can only be moved part of the way across -- not all the way to the same position as BALL CONTROL like you say -- because the overall load will have already maxed out at "very heavy," preventing any sliders from going further.

(Yes, I know you say you eventually adjust the overall load downward anyway, but that's only after you've got all the sliders placed. At least that's the way you described it.) So again, I'm wondering if you're actually playing FM11 here, or if this is based on an older version of the game.

Thanks! I appreciate your advice here.

I am playing FM2011 with the excellent Dominion 2011 skin so maybe that is the reason for those markers in the work load screen.

You are correct about the Defence schedule, but all you have to do is to drop Defending, Tactics and Ball control down equally until you are able to increase the Shooting setting to be level with Ball control.

The principal point about this method is to have the most important attributes as the most heavily trained and then to focus slightly less on the other attributes. You do have to do a bit of slider juggling but it is indeed possible.

[Steve Odom]

I don't believe you rshedule would do my team any good, because I like to shape my players totally. The differences in workload between two categories aren't big enough to do this in my opinion. On the other hand, the way you begin your thread seems more interesting to me, analysing which categories are most usefull to certain positions does seem a major factor in creating shedules.

I also give more importance to certaing categories that match my playing style, each player is expected to train more on tactics than i would with another team.

[qqq]

Hey Steve,

My schedules are really just a work in progress for me also but offer a framework for others to look at, I am only aiming at putting out a view of how to set up a training regime for those that may seem overwelmed by it or to those that are very new to the game.

The reason I opened the post that way was because all my variations of my tactical shape fell into the same basic philosophy, so training those postions to how I saw them seemed to make sense.

I think in future FM's where I am likely to use more variations of tactic and formation shapes, I will have to re-think my position on training once again. It works very well at this time, but we have to go with the changes and adapt.

[herenow]

I am playing FM2011 with the excellent Dominion 2011 skin so maybe that is the reason for those markers in the work load screen.

You are correct about the Defence schedule, but all you have to do is to drop Defending, Tactics and Ball control down equally until you are able to increase the Shooting setting to be level with Ball control.

The principal point about this method is to have the most important attributes as the most heavily trained and then to focus slightly less on the other attributes. You do have to do a bit of slider juggling but it is indeed possible.

Ahh, thanks. Duh, I didn't even consider the skin possibility. If I'd thought about it, I should have realized that couldn't have been FM10 -- because there's no "SET PIECE" slider in the training.

By the way, the phrase "qqq" makes me think of Roscoe P. Coltrane. "Dukes of Hazzard" fans will know what I'm talking about...

[Steve Odom]

Hey Steve,

My schedules are really just a work in progress for me also but offer a framework for others to look at, I am only aiming at putting out a view of how to set up a training regime for those that may seem overwelmed by it or to those that are very new to the game.

The reason I opened the post that way was because all my variations of my tactical shape fell into the same basic philosophy, so training those postions to how I saw them seemed to make sense.

I think in future FM's where I am likely to use more variations of tactic and formation shapes, I will have to re-think my position on training once again. It works very well at this time, but we have to go with the changes and adapt.

Are you getting results on the long term? It would be intersting to see the training graphs of 2 different categories over a longer period (say, a year or two) of time. If the one that's been trained most, has a big increase in attribute points an the one that the player didn't train that much has seen only little increase, then I'd say your training shedules work. I don't think you will see a big difference now, but I might be mistaken.

[herenow]

qqq:

I've been using your training schedules (or slightly modified versions of them, at least) for a few game-months now. Relatively speaking, they've been pretty good.

When I say "relatively," I mean that they're pretty good compared with other training schedules I've devised or borrowed. But -- and this is not a criticism of your work! -- that's not saying a whole lot. I find the training aspect of Football Manager to be the most unsatisfying part of the game. Indeed, I have an active dislike of it -- I actually dread clicking over to the training screen, for fear of seeing a bunch of inexplicable orange arrows and other convoluted stuff that just makes my head spin.

I've spent countless hours online reading up on FM training, and it is stunning to me how poorly explained the whole thing remains by SI. This game has been out for years, yet so many people are still utterly confused by the whole training aspect. Most people don't really understand what the arrows are supposed to represent, or how the bar graphs are meant to be interpreted, or how any of it is supposed to be properly addressed. The balance between "solid training results" and "injury-riddled squad" is too vague and indecipherable. For many or even most users, I think, it all amounts to a bunch of guesswork.

On top of that, the actual interface is really cumbersome. There should be a single screen where every training schedule for every player can be viewed, tweaked and assigned. There's just too much work involved in clicking back and forth from one to the other, trying to remember what's assigned to whom, etc.

I'm not saying I want the game to be without its challenges. That's the fun. And there absolutely should be luck, serendipity and trial-and-error involved. But the training scheme just demands too much. Yes, the "football players" we're "training" are meant to represent human beings, not robots. But something that requires so much effort needs to produce more clear and obvious results one way or the other.

[qqq]

herenow, thanks for the compliment but I should state now that I think the schedules that I posted are now obsolete with FM12 as some of the training areas have been changed though the idea remains the same.

I agree with what you are saying as there is a massive amount of ambiguity in these forums as how we all go about training and the philosophy thereof. I must admit I do like trying to find ways of improving my skills via this excellent forum and I encourage you to dig around and see how our fellow FMers translate their findings, sometimes a lack of clear indications from the developers can insire, indeed has inspired many great posters in this section to write countless great essays and the like, the most notable and extremely missed being Mr Sfraser.

So onto training, without it, I think your players will drop in their stats, every thing on the middle setting will improve them a bit and super high on the relevant areas will cleary be beneficial, but, and this is a huge but, actually playing matches is clearly the very best way to improve a player. I think it can be as simple as that. Some of us just get carried away with it all and like to look at every facet and maybe it is us in these forums that have made the aura of training the complicated and fussy beast that you see, maybe training is just as simple as the sliders suggest. In the FM12 demo I have not touched a thing regarding the training and players are getting up arrows, but I will use my opening post ideas to train in the full game as they did seem to work well for my team.

Your fears of the orange arrow is understood but it is not a fear that you should always concern yourself with. If your star player, Fred Bloggs has an orange arrow in the training screen, click on Freds name and the check his training graph and you may see a tiny down turn in one skill attribute, no big deal, but the arrow has to be a negative downward arrow all the same. A lot of people will get this during the winter months in the Premier league, I am not sure about other countries/leagues though. It is just a natural thing to happen

[herenow]

Well, I'll still be playing with FM11 for many months to come. No way in the world I'm buying the new one out of the gate, only to get months into a save and discover there's some annoying bug that keeps transfers from going through or makes my entire squad randomly disappear when I hit "CONTINUE" one afternoon. The FM11 patching process was brutal -- all those tactics and skins and other downloads that suddenly became obsolete with each new update. Ugh!

I realize my past couple of posts sound pretty negative and jerky. That's not how I mean it. I love Football Manager. I just usually avoid videogames during their early release period, because there's almost always some big problem. And the nature of FM -- a game where you build a long, complex save with so many interlocking parts -- means that such a problem hurts even more than with other titles.

[qqq]

I don't see your posts as negative and jerky, you are asking questions and posting opinions. I agree with the wait for 12.3 or whatever the final patch is, I too had some problems with a long term save during the patching months.