Tactical Debate One: What is a poacher and who are poachers?

[wwfan]

Hi all

I'm going to be running a series of debates with the focus being on which players, modern and historical, have played in an FM designated player role. I'd like to hear who you think excelled in the role and why they did so. This will aid in understanding how FM players are interpreting roles, which will help in future tactical development.

Please follow this format when suggesting a player.

What is a poacher?:

Player:

Clubs played for:

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses:

Why he fits the role:

Others can agree/disagree with the opinions. The more debate we get about suggested players, the better we can understand the role. Thanks

wwfan

[wwfan]

What is a poacher?: A player who stays high, generally relatively central, although he might drift to the flank if there is space out there, generally looking to get on the end of through balls and sneak into gaps for crosses. He tends not to contribute to other areas of play, other than briefly holding up the ball and playing simple passes back to deeper teammates. At times, he might put in a cross, but he rarely if ever plays a through ball.

I think the TC has an error in giving the poacher role such high dribbling. However, in the ME lower dribbling players tend to shoot earlier, which the poacher certainly doesn't do. As such, the higher dribbling makes sense.

Player: Darren Bent

Clubs played for: Ipswich, Charlton, Spurs, Sunderland, Villa

Playing Strengths/Weaknesses: Very quick and a composed finisher. / Gets caught offside way too often. Has very little vision and rarely contributes to other phases of play. Rarely creates chances for others.

Why he fits the role: Bent is an extremely mobile poacher, using his pace to latch onto through balls. He often does this for through balls played deep on the pitch, which means he has to run with the ball before shooting and contributes to his high offside count. His excellent mobility and fitness means he does have some Advanced Forward tendencies in his willingness to drift to the flank, but he doesn't often offer much out there other than keeping possession. When he is wide he prefers to peel off the full back and run onto through balls played into the channel rather than beating his man on the outside.

[tiago_martins]

What is a poacher?: A poacher is a finisher. He plays mainly inside the box and is always looking for a chance to score. Altough he doesn't contribute to build up, he works hard to anticipate defenders, mainly with off the ball movements. He plays very advanced on the field and tries to beat the offside trap. When with the ball, he's very agressive and heads straight to goal. The poacher always take the opportunity to shoot, rather than pass or drible, but the majority of his shoots(if not all of them) are from inside the box.

Player: Filippo Inzaghi

Clubs played for: AC Milan

Playing Strengths: Finishing, off the ball movement, positioning, intelligence, determination

Why he fits the role: He can score with his right foot, with his left foot, with his head, with any body part legally possible. His intelligence allows him to read the game perfectly, to be in the right place at the right time. Althought lacking creativity with the ball and physical ability, his offensive awareness and movement inside the box turns him into a lethal weapon from close range.

[furiousuk]

I'll just point out that real-life tactical debates are not my forte as my real-life footballing knowledge is fairly restricted but I'll add my thoughts on this as it sounds like an interesting venture. I've often held the opinion that the TC version of a position does not always equate to my vision of a position which often explains people's frustration as to why their Attacking Midfielder isn't acting like an Attacking Midfielder. In a similar vein, I know my idea of a position might not necessary mimic others ideas of a position. Anyhow, this is my thoughts on the poacher style player:

What is a poacher? Scores most of his goals from within the 6 yard box. More recently the poacher has used his immense pace, acceleration and dribbling skills to score from further out but their goals are normally restricted to latching on to through balls or decimating an unorganised defence (e.g during a counter attack) - I'm specfically thinking of Michael Owen vs Argentina from the World Cup a few years back. Anticipation and off the ball is also vital for the poacher as they always seem to be in the right place at the right time to tap the ball in, a la Gary Linekar.

Player: Early Michael Owen / Gary Linekar

Strengths/Weaknesses: Very quick with incredible acceleration and timing to get to the ball first. Incredible anticipation to get on the end of things. Good off the ball and work rate to be a continual pest. Good game-reading skills to be in the right place at the right time. Not necessarily technically great with their skill-set firmly designed to stick the ball in the net.

Why he fits the role? Maintain a fairly central position but with good work rate to continually be a threat. Good pace, anticipation and timing.

Just remembered a nice little story - Ian Wright would regularly let the defence catch him off-side early in a game so that he would let the defenders think they were winning. When they became even slightly complacent he would use his pace, acceleration and timing to catch them off guard and get on the end of a through ball and end up 1v1 with the GK. 1v1 with the GK is a position every aspiring poacher should love!!

[tomfawcett]

What is a poacher?: For me a player who plays on the shoulder of the last man and also a fox in the box kind of character. Will score the majority of their goals inside the box. e.g Ruud van nistelrooy, michael owen, fillipo inzaghi as the ultimate example.

Player: focussing on football manager - febien brandy

Clubs played for: IRL Man Utd, Swansea, Hereford, Gillingham, Notts County, ENgalnd youth up to U20. In FM, I currently have him up front at southampton.

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses: Pace, pace and more pace. I play him as a loan poacher, playing the shoulder of the last man. when balls are played through he races on to them and can also finish well. I've seen a good improvement in his physical stats and finishing but he isn't a great all round player. In the third season his strength is still under 10 like a lot of his other stats but he is good enough at what he needs to do. Plus he's a goal ag ame for the last two seasons which is all I need!!!!

Why he fits the role: It's the pace that makes him perfect but he is always in the box waiting for the pullbacks from the wingers, he scores most of goals from inside the box.

Others can agree/disagree with the opinions. The more debate we get about suggested players, the better we can understand the role. Thanks

wwfan

[Kazza]

What is a poacher?: Artful dodger. A player that is mercurial. Certainly not an all rounder but has good dribbling skills and great movement. Very aware, hence excellent off the ball skills and a good pace to get to that ball first. Hungry and relentless in pursuit of goals. Almost a lone operator ready to pounce on half a chance. In real life would make a good assassin, stealth, focus and eye for the killer ball. They tended to be small and that adds to their agility and swiftness, though not so sure these days re height and build.

Player: Jimmy Greaves

Clubs played for: Chelsea,Milan & Spurs (stints with West Ham & Barnet)

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses: Great at dribbling, movement, pace and vision. Can be lazy and not a team player.

Why he fits the role: Greavies was born to the role and was always a first team player. His passion for scoring added to his gifted abilities and made him one of the very best and first modern poachers of the game.

[NakS]

What is a poacher?: The classical poacher is the most advanced player on the team, though he can drop deep a bit, hold up the ball and play simple and backwards pass. Usually on the shoulder of the last defender and in the box, not the kind of player that drift to flanks if space is not his main asset like David Trezeguet. He reads the game very well in terms of off the ball movements and he pick the right option at the right time.

Player: David Trezeguet

Clubs played for: Monaco, Juventus, french national team

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses: Offensive positioning, off the ball movement, anticipation, first touch, composure, very high shots on target/shots ratio / Trezeguet was not that fast nor an awesome dribbler, nor as elegant and creative as Zidane but he was damn efficient. Poor vision of teammates movements.

Why he fits the role: Obsessed with goalscoring, Top goalscorer in French Ligue 1 (Monaco: 125m/62goals) and in Calcio (Juventus 320m/175goals) and for the french national team (71m/34goals). It's really his accuracy at shooting and his off the ball movement, not pace nor dribbling that made him the perfect goalscorer, don't have any figures to back up but most of his shots were on target, always at the right place at the right time to tap the ball in.

[video=youtube;W5m848DCeV0]

[BigHairyAndy]

What is a poacher?: The archetypal twenty-a-season penalty box predator, the poacher is every manager's best friend as whether you're trying to win a title or stay in a division his goals are invariably the difference between success and failure. Typically found lurking inside the penalty area, often dismissed as lazy for his lack of contribution to the build-up, nevertheless he's worth his weight in gold by virtue of his deadly goalscoring touch. He will not win you games by his workrate, his silky skills, his buildup play or his defensive awareness, but he will win you games by doing what he does best: scoring goals.

Player: Alistair Murdoch McCoist

Clubs played for: St. Johnstone, Sunderland, Glasgow Rangers, Kilmarnock

Playing Strengths: Goals. Literally hundreds of them. Whether playing alongside iconic target man Mark Hateley, talismanic winger Brian Laudrup, or workhorse Gordon Durie, having Ally McCoist in the Rangers team guaranteed between eighteen and forty-nine (!) goals every season from 1983 to 1993, with him adding another fifty-six between 1995 and 1998. His anticipation and predatory instincts were outstanding, as two Golden Boot awards testify, and he scored goals wherever he played - whether in league cup matches against lower division Scottish sides or Champions League games against the best Europe had to offer.

Playing Weaknesses: McCoist was never the fittest or hardest-working player, and sightings of him in his own half of the pitch were rare. He was never the silkiest dribbler, nor the most exquisite passer, nor the best header of a ball, nor even the paciest player, relying on anticipation and finishing more than any other attributes.

Why he fits the role: McCoist is the first name who comes to mind when the word "poacher" is spoken. He is the archetypal toe-end on the cross, pounces on the rebound, deadly from two yards poacher of goals.

[Eastwood]

What is a poacher?:

Player: Ruud van Nistelrooy

Clubs played for: den Bosch, Heerenveen, Man U, Real Madrid, HSV

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses: Positioning, finishing, composure, movement, anticipation, determined. Rather slow and other than his brilliant goalscoring record doesn't add a lot to play.

Why he fits the role:Always in the right place at the right time. This was at United and to be fair also down to Beckhams pinpoint delivery a lot of the time, but his movement between defenders was incredible especially considering played lone striker.

[Tidd19]

What is a poacher?: A player who looks exclusively to score goals for their team, either by being on the end of team created chances or by taking advantage of mistakes in the opposition defence. I believe First Touch is an essential part of the poachers itinerary, whilst they may not possess the "take a man out of the game" dribbling ability or the "bypass a defensive line" passing ability I do not think that a poacher is any less technical than players that can do that. The ability to not only take the ball under control quickly & efficiently whilst under pressure but also like chess to be thinking two moves ahead (first touch here, so i can swivel and get a shot off here with goalkeeper rooted to the spot here).

Player: Filippo Inzaghi

Clubs played for: Juventus, AC Milan

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses:

Strengths: First Touch, Anticipation of play, ability & composure to finish, the ability to empathise with the opposition player(s) and so predict the oppositions player(s) actions and reactions (e.g. which area of the goal does the keeper think I'm going to place the ball or the Ian Wright anecdote above).

Weaknesses: Born offside, little involvement in build up play, makes a team predictable tactically, incredibly specialised, relies heavily on team to create chances for him.

Why he fits the role: Probably one of the last few "pure" poachers in the modern game, by that I mean he relies exclusively on his mental edge. Other players today considered poachers have other aspects to their game that allow them to fit into modern systems, Inzaghi does not. He for example, doesn't have the speed or work ethic of Eto'o, the physical presence of Van Nistelrooy or the dribbling ability of David Villa.

[ham_aka_stam]

What is a poacher? Any player primarily concerned with putting the ball in the back of the net. As such he plays high and stays high, leading the line and stretching the defence deeper, giving him the secondary role of producing space for deeper players. The issue here is he can be linked to Target Man Attack in my opinion. If a poacher is tall and strong, he'll instinctively play a Target Man role as well, getting on the end of crosses, even if he lacks the physicality of a traditional Big-Man.

Players: Michael Owen, Ruud van Nistelrooy

Clubs played for: LFC, MUFC

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses: Fast (but other physical attributes are useful especially if playing the pseudo-targetman role, and some not-so-fast players have excelled here) able to read the defensive line well enough to beat the offside trap regularly - often being intentionally offside for periods before dropping onside. Good first touch but not a particularly skilled dribble. Cool head (composure). Good finishing. Excelling in movement off the ball, especially timing their movement until the last minute to fool defenders. Often surprisingly accurate with the head. Not necessarily the best technique, but with an uncanny ability to score regardless.

Why he fits the role: Owen destroyed anyone who had the temerity to play a high line against him - running onto through balls to slot, chip or in some other way outfox the keeper with a cool, calm finish. Van Nistelrooy had/has two facets, one is the offside-trap-springer extraordinaire who spent a lot of time in an offside position, only to step back towards his own goal just in time to turn and run onto a through ball and inevitably score. However he also had the ability to drop off from the line, receive a ball to feet and play a possesion based pass, or a flicked on ball to an on-rushing winger. Not because of any innate technical or creative ability, but just because his reading of the game (and the doubt he left defenders in) meant the team played around him as a fulcrum.

Great idea for a thread though wwfan, the Poacher was incorrect with it's use of High Run With Ball in FM11. This meant that when he inevitably received a ball that wasn't a through-pass, instead of playing possession-based or flicking it on for others (allowing him to burst into the box), he would turn and run at the defence. Which, considering this is a position that the more technically-deficient forwards often find themselves in, is not what you want to see.

[GoonerFin]

What is a poacher?: A player who looks exclusively to score goals for their team, either by being on the end of team created chances or by taking advantage of mistakes in the opposition defence. I believe First Touch is an essential part of the poachers itinerary, whilst they may not possess the "take a man out of the game" dribbling ability or the "bypass a defensive line" passing ability I do not think that a poacher is any less technical than players that can do that. The ability to not only take the ball under control quickly & efficiently whilst under pressure but also like chess to be thinking two moves ahead (first touch here, so i can swivel and get a shot off here with goalkeeper rooted to the spot here).

Player: Filippo Inzaghi

Clubs played for: Juventus, AC Milan

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses:

Strengths: First Touch, Anticipation of play, ability & composure to finish, the ability to empathise with the opposition player(s) and so predict the oppositions player(s) actions and reactions (e.g. which area of the goal does the keeper think I'm going to place the ball or the Ian Wright anecdote above).

Weaknesses: Born offside, little involvement in build up play, makes a team predictable tactically, incredibly specialised, relies heavily on team to create chances for him.

Why he fits the role: Probably one of the last few "pure" poachers in the modern game, by that I mean he relies exclusively on his mental edge. Other players today considered poachers have other aspects to their game that allow them to fit into modern systems, Inzaghi does not. He for example, doesn't have the speed or work ethic of Eto'o, the physical presence of Van Nistelrooy or the dribbling ability of David Villa.

Yes! Inzaghi was my first thought too and IMO you summed him up well. I would add the fear factor he (and the poacher in general) brings to the heart of the opposition defence as one of his strengths. The defence can't keep a high line as that will only make the poacher more dangerous and they will have to make a hard decision: drop deep and risk getting caught or push up and give more space to the creators in midfield. By just being there the poacher is already giving the defence something to think about!

My favorite thing about Inzaghi was that he could be offside 20 times and then on the 21st time when the flag stayed down, you just knew it was a goal. Absolutely clinical.

[Smac]

Great examples and stories. I have a very simple definition of a Poacher and one that I don't think is what other people mean when they say "He's a Poacher", but this is it:

A Poacher is the player you didn't see coming who suddenly "appears" and puts the ball in the net.

This is why, for me van Nistelrooy isn't really a poacher, at least not most of the time: I see him coming. Something about his play brought attention to him, whereas with what I think of as true poachers they use their secret ninja skills to become invisible until they can spring, panther like, out of nowhere and bring the whole thing to a conclusion in milliseconds. Super-Pipo, Owen, and oddly enough this year Javier Hernandez have all been like that for me. Purely subjective? Perhaps.

The other quality I see in Poachers is their allergy to the football. Players like Owen and Bent seem to be willing to come back to receive the ball, but only if they can 1-touch it away with minimal fuss, whereas so many other kinds of strikers like to take the ball into possession and do something with it, like dribble or look around. I think Poachers are allergic to this kind of play because it interferes with their craving for being invisible: The only thing that will enable them to steal the goal away from everyone else! A poacher would gladly take candy from a baby and take goals away from anyone. I can see Pipo tackling his own player to score.

You know, having written that I think I have another idea about poachers. Maybe poachers don't like to be in decision-making situations? Even Bent on a long breakaway, though he has to dribble at the defense and then the keeper, doesn't have any more decisions* to make. He's a spear, thrown, an arrow in flight. Put ball in net. Full Stop.

Sorry about not posting "in format", but my comment didn't fit that format.

*Interpersonal decisions or tactical decisions. He still has to decide how to implement his single plan, but this can be achieved with an entirely different mind than a broader-picture type of thinking and its this that I think appeals to poachers.

[ham_aka_stam]

I think you've got a point in the allergy to the football. A poacher does all their damage off the ball, as opposed to any other forward doing it both on and off.

You also have a point with the decisions thing. I was talking Monday Night to a fellow United fan about Danny Welbeck, and how he's so much better when he doesn't have any time to think about what he's doing. Hernandez is similar. It's instinct over intellect. "He just knows where the goal is". That's it, he just knows, gets into position, then changes position, then changes again before finally making the deadly movement, meeting the ball and putting it away. In the box, he doesn't need pace, he doesn't need strength, all he needs is maybe a first touch, a finish and some composure.

[NakS]

I think you've got a point in the allergy to the football. A poacher does all their damage off the ball, as opposed to any other forward doing it both on and off.

You also have a point with the decisions thing. I was talking Monday Night to a fellow United fan about Danny Welbeck, and how he's so much better when he doesn't have any time to think about what he's doing. Hernandez is similar. It's instinct over intellect. "He just knows where the goal is". That's it, he just knows, gets into position, then changes position, then changes again before finally making the deadly movement, meeting the ball and putting it away. In the box, he doesn't need pace, he doesn't need strength, all he needs is maybe a first touch, a finish and some composure.

Exactly this. Instinct over intellect. Definitely agree with your opinion about decision making.

[RT--]

I think a poacher has to:

a) score lots of goals

b) not contribute to approach play

Strengths: Anticipation, composure and finishing are a must, I'd say.

Weaknesses: Low creativity, dribbling, crossing and teamwork (though I've never quite grasped what teamwork does in FM terms)

I don't think a poacher necessarily has to have great pace, or even acceleration. Off the ball you'd think would be important, but not in the sense that they actively look for space to receive a pass, just that they're very good at timing runs in behind the defence or finding a few yards of seperation in the penalty area.

Instinctively, I'd say Ruud Van Nistelrooy was a bit more than a poacher, perhaps because of his strength, hold up play and aerial ability (I could be imagining the aerial ability because of his height, I admit). Same with someone like Shearer. Both were direct and scored bags of goals, but they were more hybrid poacher/target man players for me.

I don't really watch him play all that much, but Kevin Phillips is someone that comes to mind.

[frukox]

What is a poacher?:

Poacher is generally the quickest player to be among the favorites of his club by providing over at least 20 goals a year at the top level, up to 60 goals at the lowest level, thus being the carry of the team for all sides except for top-quality sides

Player: Gregory Lefort

Clubs played for: I do not remember but I bought him on free transfer

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses:

(+)

An athletic player

Great anticipation, off-the-ball movement

Great dribbling, technique

Low injury proneness,

Fairly consistent

Withstands pressure

Professional

(-)

Low shot on target rate due to decent decisions, composure, finishing

Fairly selfish but frequent moments of individual brilliance when appropriately motivated, supported

A bit dirty, aggressive player

Why he fits the role:

He outthinks, outruns and outdoes any defenders playing for the sides up to nLeague 2. In short, he is my man:D

[MeesterCat]

I couldn't fill in all of the above sections, but for me the ultimate poacher was Gerd Muller. He lived in the oppositions box, he wasn't there for his link up play, or ability to beat players. His sole raison d'etre was to score goals, by whatever means possible. Gary Lineker was possibly another good example, maybe Tony Cottee.

I think with the emphasis on the team, rather than an individual's skill these days, true poachers by my definition of the role aren't as prevalent.

[linger32]

Can't belive nobody has mentioned Robbie Fowler yet he was a brilliant poacher in my opinion

[RichieVilla]

What is a poacher - For me a poacher is generally a striker of less technical skill than complete forward like Henry or Deep player like Rooney. They are known for being in the 'right place' and will contribute the ugly goals (eg tap ins, rebounds). They also must have the instinct to finish from few chances, sometimes scoring with their only touch or only clear chance. Off the ball movement is a big part of the game but also acceleration and anticipation aswell as composure. A poacher in not known really for his dribbling but this can also be an added characteristic. A poacher is often said to 'know where the goal is' without having direct vision of it, even facing the opposite way

Who is a poacher - Darren Bent - Being a Villa fan i love him, he is the perfect 6 yrd predator, u wont see any 30 yarder from Dazza

Raul - Probably the best poacher of the modern era, Real Madrid record scorer i believe

Gabriel Batistuta - One of my fave players of all time Argentine legend Batigol was a prolific goalscorer who also had prowess in the air

Alan Shearer - although not a typical poacher in that he has a more complete game often scorer from range and in the air he also had poacher characteristics hence his recored goal tally in EPL history

Hernan Jorge Crespo - another wonderful player who i admire (i have a thing for argies), he is technically skilled and potent scorer, didnt quite make the grade at chelsea although i do remember him scoring twice in motm performance in 3-2 loss to my club aston villa.

What i have realised from this discussion is that most modern era poachers have other facets to their game such as heading (bent, Vieri, Batigol), long range shooting (Shearer), dribbling (Crespo) and although this would suggest they are more rounded players than the typical poacher i think that these are just extras and the primary function is to score by any means.

[flere-imsaho]

Great idea for a thread though wwfan, the Poacher was incorrect with it's use of High Run With Ball in FM11. This meant that when he inevitably received a ball that wasn't a through-pass, instead of playing possession-based or flicking it on for others (allowing him to burst into the box), he would turn and run at the defence. Which, considering this is a position that the more technically-deficient forwards often find themselves in, is not what you want to see.

Reading this opened my eyes. I wondered why my poacher in FM11 wasn't acting how I thought a poacher should act. Made me realize that there might be some other "named" positions in the TC that aren't acting like I think they should, especially in Midfield. For instance, in another thread someone mentioned that a potential issue with a Ball-Winning Midfielder is that he has high closing down which, if he's played as a "shield" in front of the back four, can mean if he misses his tackles he lets people through too easily.

Does anyone know if there's a resource somewhere that goes into this detail as to the proclivities of the "named" roles in FM11? I know the Tactical Theorems document does a bit, but I'm not sure if it goes to this level.

[kevin3]

What is a poacher - A poacher is the goalscorer in the team. They lead the line and play on the shoulders of the defence. They usually have the least amount of touches in the team but they only need 1 shot on goal to be effective. They are usually quick so that they can stretch the defensive line and create space for the creative players in behind. A poacher has a very attacking mentaltiy so needs close support to be effective, usually a second striker that can feed them through balls. Key attributes of a poacher are goalscoring ability, off the ball movement, anticipation and speed.

Who is a poacher - Javier Hernandez

Clubs played for - Chivas, Manchester United

Playing Strengths/ Weaknesses - Lightning pace, great off ball movement, hard worker, great finishing ability, great mobility and good in the air.

- Lacks techincal standard of others at the club, quite weak at dribbling and passing.

Why he fits the role - Has a great instinct of scoring goals. Makes great runs all day and when in tandem with Wayne Rooney makes a great patnership. His pace stretches opposition defensive lines and gives Wayne Rooney more space to operate. His mobilty, off ball movement and finishing make up for his techinical ability.

[ham_aka_stam]

Reading this opened my eyes. I wondered why my poacher in FM11 wasn't acting how I thought a poacher should act. Made me realize that there might be some other "named" positions in the TC that aren't acting like I think they should, especially in Midfield. For instance, in another thread someone mentioned that a potential issue with a Ball-Winning Midfielder is that he has high closing down which, if he's played as a "shield" in front of the back four, can mean if he misses his tackles he lets people through too easily.

Does anyone know if there's a resource somewhere that goes into this detail as to the proclivities of the "named" roles in FM11? I know the Tactical Theorems document does a bit, but I'm not sure if it goes to this level.

I doubt it's been outlined in any one resource to be honest. What you're better doing is analysing the tactical settings yourself. Give the player what you think they should have on name basis, and then make adjustments.

I had the same problem with the ball winner. What I did was move the player into DM and set as Anchorman. I then ticked all the boxes so that his settings were "locked" and moved him back into CM. Consequently, I'd love to be able to set this as a saved player-profile that I can use another time.

The only downside is that it means that player's Mentality and Closing Down are locked, so if you change the team's mentality to Attacking or Defensive, his doesn't change. It's for this reason that I don't use shouts or the team-instructions to change my team, I change the players themselves.

[SCIAG]

What is a poacher?: A player who contributes little to his team's play other than scoring goals from inside the penalty area. He'll usually play on the shoulder of the last man, but this role also suits a player who doesn't have the pace to do that and instead works by finding space in the area, receiving a pass and tucking the ball away.

Player: I'm going to go with someone who hasn't yet been named and say Leroy Lita

Clubs played for: Bristol City, Reading, Charlton, Middlesborough, Swansea, and possibly a few more on brief loans

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses: Generally, I think anticipation is the most important attribute for poachers, closely followed by finishing/composure. First touch is fairly important, as is off the ball, and also other attributes like balance and technique that will help him make the most of his chances. Finally, the poacher is much more useful if he's fast, particularly over the first few yards.Lita is an exceptional finisher when he is confident, he is quick, direct and good at getting in goalscoring positions, as well as being extremely agile and consequently capable of scoring very good goals from very scrappy chances/he is short, often suffers from a lack of confidence and loses his goalscoring touch, and he contributes very little outside of goalscoring.

Why he fits the role: Mainly because of my final description of his weaknesses- he does very little outside of goalscoring. However, he is very clinical in front of goal when he is confident, which has allowed him to carve out a respectable career, mostly in the Championship, and he top scored at a European u21 Championship in 2007.

This video sums up Lita's ability as a poacher:

At 0:35, he gets in a great position and is only denied a goal by the bounce of the ball.

At 1:05, he scores a fine reaction goal, only to have it chalked off because the ball was off the pitch.

At 2:52, Reading counter attack excellently, Lita points for a through ball, times his run perfectly (there was very little margin for error) and scores with his first touch

At 3:56, Lita runs onto another through ball, and scores with his second touch.

I doubt it's been outlined in any one resource to be honest. What you're better doing is analysing the tactical settings yourself. Give the player what you think they should have on name basis, and then make adjustments.

I had the same problem with the ball winner. What I did was move the player into DM and set as Anchorman. I then ticked all the boxes so that his settings were "locked" and moved him back into CM. Consequently, I'd love to be able to set this as a saved player-profile that I can use another time.

The only downside is that it means that player's Mentality and Closing Down are locked, so if you change the team's mentality to Attacking or Defensive, his doesn't change. It's for this reason that I don't use shouts or the team-instructions to change my team, I change the players themselves.

I find that Central Midfielder (defend) is the best role to use for a "shield".

And, pardon me for asking, why don't use just use classic tactics if you override every setting?

[big daddy]

What is a poacher?: The classical poacher is the most advanced player on the team, though he can drop deep a bit, hold up the ball and play simple and backwards pass. Usually on the shoulder of the last defender and in the box, not the kind of player that drift to flanks if space is not his main asset like David Trezeguet. He reads the game very well in terms of off the ball movements and he pick the right option at the right time.

Player: David Trezeguet

Clubs played for: Monaco, Juventus, french national team

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses: Offensive positioning, off the ball movement, anticipation, first touch, composure, very high shots on target/shots ratio / Trezeguet was not that fast nor an awesome dribbler, nor as elegant and creative as Zidane but he was damn efficient. Poor vision of teammates movements.

Why he fits the role: Obsessed with goalscoring, Top goalscorer in French Ligue 1 (Monaco: 125m/62goals) and in Calcio (Juventus 320m/175goals) and for the french national team (71m/34goals). It's really his accuracy at shooting and his off the ball movement, not pace nor dribbling that made him the perfect goalscorer, don't have any figures to back up but most of his shots were on target, always at the right place at the right time to tap the ball in.

[video=youtube;W5m848DCeV0]

No where near being a poacher, more like a target man in Italy with Juventus, his partner Inzaghi was the poacher

[NakS]

I disagree with your opinion that Trezeguet is "no where near" a poacher and I obviously agree that Inzaghi is the archetypal poacher.

The most advanced forward spot was shared between Inzaghi and Trezeguet when he arrived in 2000 next euro championship and then Inzaghi left for Milan AC in 2001 because they were 2 incredible goalscorers, each in their own style.

In Serie A 2000/2001, they were very rarely partnered in the line-up when Del Piero and Zidane were fit. Actually the combination of Zidane - Del Piero - Trezeguet is the exact definition of what is a Trequartista - Secunda Punda - Prima Punta trio. Prima Punta being either Trezeguet or Inzaghi. Darko Kovacevic was more of the target man. Trezeguet scored 14 and Inzaghi scored 10 in league that season, sharing goalscoring.

I guess you are confused because Trezeguet aerial hability was very good and Inzaghi is the usual poacher guy, so you may have thought that Trezeguet was a target man. But Trezeguet is far more than a target man, he is really a permanent threat in the box, his goal instinct was his main asset. That's why I think Trezeguet really is a poacher, was Batistuta simply a target man?

[ham_aka_stam]

And, pardon me for asking, why don't use just use classic tactics if you override every setting?

Pardon granted. I did once do that, I switched my tactic to classic, but the problem is that by doing so you're stopping that tactic from ever having a player with a preset settings. I also quite like the Defend, Support and Attack notation being on the pitch in the right hand pane, it helps me select my team with the right players in the right positions.

[Fraser]

What is a poacher?: I would define a poacher as a central striker who, when his team has possession, is always looking to move into the best position to get an easy goalscoring opportunity. They are not necessarily lazy (I class Ian Rush as a poacher, but he worked very hard to close down the opponent when Liverpool didn't have the ball). I also think that having dribbling ability doesn't mean that you can't be a poacher (Romario was a poacher)

Player: Romario

Clubs played for: About 4 million of them, including PSV, Barca, Vasco de Gama and Flamengo.

Playing Strengths / Weaknesses: Anticipation, instinct, technical ability, decisiveness and imagination. He knows what space to move into, what to do when the ball comes and he has the ability to do it. He also has the ability to improvise (Gerd Muller was another master at this - sometimes the goals looked ugly but they all count) / The usual, in Romario's case he was lazy and not a guy who is going to be chasing long balls, closing defenders down and putting tackles in.

Why he fits the role: He's a goalscorer, pure and simple. He's not going to work the channels or drop into midfield to link up play, he wants to get into the 18 yard box and find space in front of the opponents goal.

[OJDD]

gerd müller??? shearer? klinsmann? morientes? hakan sükür?

in my opinion a poacher is just focussed on scoring goals no matter how. in most cases they don't seem to be technically gifted. so i think the names coming up here like crespo, van nistelrooy, owen, raul, trezeguet are nowhere near being poachers. they are lot more than that.

furthermore, i suppose the poacher to be an "endangered species".

[big daddy]

Trezeguet would still come deep to link up the play, a thing most poachers do not do.

My definition is a players lurking on the edge of offside and when the play is closer to goal stays around the 6 yard area to get the last touch

Gerd Muller was just that type,and paolo Rossi was also a great poacher, so is Inzaghi.

a poacher needs some pace too, another thing Treze never had.

Still have hime as a target man playing the ball of to del piero and then going back into the penalty area to finish the attack off.

[ham_aka_stam]

The problem you have is determining the difference between "the type of player" someone is, and the tactical role they play.

You could have a player who plays best as a poacher playing deeper for the good of the team. The examples I can think of are Ruud and Michael Owen. Both have got more involved in build-up play as their career has progressed, probably as their coaches realised that the role of a poacher isn't as useful tactically these days.

[Naryana]

I don't really watch him play all that much, but Kevin Phillips is someone that comes to mind.

What is a poacher?: A player who can create the space to receive a pass close to the goal, that can be score with the first or second touch.

Player: Kevin Phillips

Clubs played for: West Bromwich Albion, Birmingham City, and Blackpool

Playing Strengths: First Touch - To control and set up the second touch to score. Anticipation - See where the pass will be received and react to it. Composure - Being close to goal will usually mean being under pressure from a defender. Off the Ball - Create the space. Positioning - Read the situation and get into the position.

Weaknesses: Being young? A lot of the attributes needed are Mental Attributes. Developed in later life.

Why he fits the role: I can't comment on his early years. During his stint at West Brom he was very much always "in the right place at the right time". Take Taylor-Fletcher's goal for Blackpool against Hull. Kevin Phillips was at the far post waiting for a pass or the rebound.

[vurogj]

What is a poacher?: A player who can create the space to receive a pass close to the goal, that can be score with the first or second touch.

Player: Kevin Phillips

Clubs played for: West Bromwich Albion, Birmingham City, and Blackpool (*cough* and a few others)

Why he fits the role: I can't comment on his early years. During his stint at West Brom he was very much always "in the right place at the right time". Take Taylor-Fletcher's goal for Blackpool against Hull. Kevin Phillips was at the far post waiting for a pass or the rebound.

You missed out the club that plucked him from non-league obscurity, Watford.

This discusses him as he was when he left us at age 24, and has some useful things regarding his skills (or lack of at the time).

http://www.bsad.org/gone/phillips.html

I'm equally sure a Sunderland or Southampton fan could also help you out here. Not sure he was at Villa long enough to help much in this discussion though.

[virtex]

When people are playing with a poacher in-game, are you tending to find the poacher scores lots of goals and the partner gets very few?

I'm playing as Everton and I use a narrow 4-3-1-2 which has so far brought me results of something like W8 D8 L3, and the losses came against Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal so overall I am very happy with my system. We are solid at the back (third fewest goals conceded) and play some very nice football.

I have Saha set as my poacher (who is not someone I would consider to be a poacher IRL) and he's scored about 13 in 20. The next highest scorer in my team has 3, and I think that's Cahill from midfield.

Now I have hardly added to the squad that starts the game so my other strikers are Beckford, Gueye and Velios, all of who probably wouldn't get into many other Premier League sides, so it may just be a case of them not being particularly good players, but I do fear Saha getting injured and having to rely on the others.

My other striker is set to TM support which I appreciate is what it says on the tin (I.e a support role), but has anyone any advice how I could go about taking the burden away from the poacher slightly?

[ham_aka_stam]

When people are playing with a poacher in-game, are you tending to find the poacher scores lots of goals and the partner gets very few?

I'm playing as Everton and I use a narrow 4-3-1-2 which has so far brought me results of something like W8 D8 L3, and the losses came against Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal so overall I am very happy with my system. We are solid at the back (third fewest goals conceded) and play some very nice football.

I have Saha set as my poacher (who is not someone I would consider to be a poacher IRL) and he's scored about 13 in 20. The next highest scorer in my team has 3, and I think that's Cahill from midfield.

Now I have hardly added to the squad that starts the game so my other strikers are Beckford, Gueye and Velios, all of who probably wouldn't get into many other Premier League sides, so it may just be a case of them not being particularly good players, but I do fear Saha getting injured and having to rely on the others.

My other striker is set to TM support which I appreciate is what it says on the tin (I.e a support role), but has anyone any advice how I could go about taking the burden away from the poacher slightly?

I tend to find either my poacher scores, or my deeperlying (even if done purely through roaming) forward scores, not usually both. It all depends how the opposition defence is set-up, but the runs/movement of one are what's allowing the other the space.

[Naryana]

You missed out the club that plucked him from non-league obscurity, Watford.

This discusses him as he was when he left us at age 24, and has some useful things regarding his skills (or lack of at the time).

I think a quote in that article

it was a long time before I saw Kevin Phillips waste a clear-cut chance - even now, his ability to get an effort on target in the most difficult circumstances remains one of his finest assets

raises another quality for a poacher, Consistency.

[ham_aka_stam]

Consistency is a signifier of a good poacher, but it's important everywhere on the team, so not really an identifier of a poacher specifically.