The massive frustration of Football manager

[kendall75]

I've been having many frustrating situations as I play Manager 2012 and wonder if you other managers are experiencing the same.

Here's a little list of things I find strange. This list is based on playing with Paris Saint Germain, building the team up to be amongst the best in the world and leading them to many Champions Leagues and Ligue 1 championships.

- Do opposing goalkeepers ALWAYS seem to have the best game of their career when playing you?

- Do you nearly always get scored on from free-kicks or corners despite having a great defense and working the set piece defense in game practice for months!?

- For that matter doesn't it seem to you that whoever you recruit, whatever the level of your defense, nothing ever really changes for the goals you allow? Always the same number of goals allowed really!

- Do your players seem to all of a sudden have the level of pre-teens when opposed with a team like Man U, Barcelona or Real Madrid? Can't make a pass, always give the ball straight to C. Ronaldo or Messi?

- Are you also unable to praise your players after a good game because they always seem to think they where bad despite two goals, an assist and a 8.5 rating?

- Are you unable to set a player straight after he concedes a penalty kick, makes two passes straight to the opposition's feet that lead to goals and finishes with a 5.3 because he says that it's unfair to pinpoint him?

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

- Do you think it's completely disproportioned, when a player who has a rotation contract gets mad because he wants to play more, that you have to play him for 8 or 9 straight games before he's happy? He's a rotation!!!

- Don't a lot of losses seem very very random despite your team being in full-force, great spirit and awesome chemistry?

So there you go, just a quick list of things that don't sit quite right with me. I think some things are too random in the game and some aspects of player interaction have just become ridiculous. I used to pull my hair out at the fact that defense seems to be something you can't make any better whoever you recruit or at my strikers for pissing away scoring opportunities like popping candy from a pez machine, but now I also have to be scared every time I adress a player. Now there is no logic whatsoever to how players answer you. It seems to be a lose-lose situation!

Yeah, just frustrating! So join in and dish out some of your frustration!

[dirtyscarab]

- Are you also unable to praise your players after a good game because they always seem to think they where bad despite two goals, an assist and a 8.5 rating?

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

These two points are valid in my opinion.

[CroKop]

This thing with keepers and strikers it is most frustrating. I mean, i have no idea what to do and how to fix it. I'm playing Milan and i dominated every game so far with at least 5-10% more possession, at least double the chances than my opponent(some times triple, sine times even more) but in 11 I'm on 5-3-3, scored only 14 goals and sitting at 8th spot. Everything looks fine, my opponents barely have any chances during the game, usually games are about my misses. but yet they manage to score form all kinds of situations, set pieces, long shots, one on ones. So I'm saying that everything looks fine with my game but scoring goals and i have no clue what to do!

I am experiencing all issues u pointed here but most of them i can swallow, even they are annoying.

I don't see much people whining about this stuff so i'm even more frustrated because it seams that I'm the problem but i don't see how can I affect that...

[Gusano]

Disagree with all of them.

[Wiitastic]

does the OP know you can do touchline shouts anytime in the match ?

[Wiitastic]

Disagree with all of them.

you just cant say just that, if you do, you got to say why you disagree

[metisse]

- Do you nearly always get scored on from free-kicks or corners despite having a great defense and working the set piece defense in game practice for months!?

- Are you unable to set a player straight after he concedes a penalty kick, makes two passes straight to the opposition's feet that lead to goals and finishes with a 5.3 because he says that it's unfair to pinpoint him?

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

This.

But an occasional frustration is actually mean to be. And most of it from, well, the ME that's just isn't perfect. Which is okay actually (i mean the fact that it's not perfect).

[Redbyrd]

you just cant say just that, if you do, you got to say why you disagree

I disagree.

[TSH]

Disagree with all of them.

Some are confirmed bugs...

Jesus, such reactions show that many people really play the game on such a superficial level.

[lurkingwithintent]

Some are confirmed bugs...

Jesus, such reactions show that many people really play the game on such a superficial level.

Which ones are confirmed bugs?

[OLLMEISTER1]

I completely disagree with the OP points.

It seems to me that the very fact that you are PSG and have loads of money at your disposable, mixed in with what you consider to be the best players on the game you demand and expect instant success and to win every game 3-0 and to play barca esq style football.

It doesnt always work like that unfortunatly it is obvisouly something in your tactics which isnt clicking amongst your current crop of players. Set Piece creator is a very difficult thing to get correct and balanced you may have the wrong settings for your players regarding the set pieces you talk about in your opening post.

Tactics IMO are very important and must be thouroughly scrutinised and set according to the style of players you have in your team.

It annoys me how everybody jumps on the bandwagon of "its the games fault, this is a bug etc" you cant buy instant success or classy football it comes with good preperation and hard work.

[fyrros]

- For that matter doesn't it seem to you that whoever you recruit, whatever the level of your defense, nothing ever really changes for the goals you allow? Always the same number of goals allowed really!

- Do your players seem to all of a sudden have the level of pre-teens when opposed with a team like Man U, Barcelona or Real Madrid? Can't make a pass, always give the ball straight to C. Ronaldo or Messi?

- Are you also unable to praise your players after a good game because they always seem to think they where bad despite two goals, an assist and a 8.5 rating?

- Are you unable to set a player straight after he concedes a penalty kick, makes two passes straight to the opposition's feet that lead to goals and finishes with a 5.3 because he says that it's unfair to pinpoint him?

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

- Do you think it's completely disproportioned, when a player who has a rotation contract gets mad because he wants to play more, that you have to play him for 8 or 9 straight games before he's happy? He's a rotation!!!

Agree with these points completely; particularly the rotation player part frustrates me a lot!

[Stephanie McMahon's Secret Lover]

Personally I'm a bit fed up of having more shots, more on target, more cccs and losing!!! I think its happening way too often!

[TSH]

Which ones are confirmed bugs?

The two about player reactions to team talk and the rotation problem.

Confirmed bugs are also the scout problem and the squad registration problem.

I would suggest people should stop getting upset about the bad ratio of chances/ccc/1 on1s vs Goals - it's just a mechanism to keep scores realistic since the engine can't do it through A.I. It can't be changed because it's one of the solid pillars the match engine has been built upon. Wait for the new engine.

Not that SI has ever admitted this engine problem... But their silence in the matter all these years says a lot in my book.

[kga89]

I always start with Dundee United and I always seems to stuggle against the 'smaller' teams in the league. I get plenty of shots on target but seem to get beat by a last minute goal, or a very late equiliser. Very annoying but you get on with it, work on your tactics and make sure you give a good hiding the next time

[Turneep]

I've been having many frustrating situations as I play Manager 2012 and wonder if you other managers are experiencing the same.

Here's a little list of things I find strange. This list is based on playing with Paris Saint Germain, building the team up to be amongst the best in the world and leading them to many Champions Leagues and Ligue 1 championships.

- Do opposing goalkeepers ALWAYS seem to have the best game of their career when playing you?

Nope, it usually comes down to how the defenders are doing and what way they are forcing my strikers. If I have 12 shots on goal but they are all at awkward angles the CB is probably causing my striker some pressure and forcing the ball out to the sides, so I switch tactics, take my speedy small striker off and put on my tall target man and cross balls into him.

- Do you nearly always get scored on from free-kicks or corners despite having a great defense and working the set piece defense in game practice for months!?

Never had a free kick scored against me, had one or two corners. I defend set pieces heavily and dont try to counter them.

- For that matter doesn't it seem to you that whoever you recruit, whatever the level of your defense, nothing ever really changes for the goals you allow? Always the same number of goals allowed really!

Last season as Bayern Munich over the course of the year I let in 28 goals total in all competitions. This year Im bringing my 18 year old defender into the squad and come christmas we have let in 35 goals in just the League. He is making mistakes. Still we won the league with 30 points to spare last year so I can afford to drop a few points.

- Do your players seem to all of a sudden have the level of pre-teens when opposed with a team like Man U, Barcelona or Real Madrid? Can't make a pass, always give the ball straight to C. Ronaldo or Messi?

I have to change my tactics against higher reputation teams, sure my players might be up to the level of everything Man U or Barcelona have but their team is alot more successful and have a higher reputation so I treat them like their players are world class and mine are just dirt. Came up against Barcelona in Semi Final and drew at Nou Camp 2-2. Played the game defensively. Had 2 Anchor Men and focused on getting the ball out to my wingers. A home, I normally switch to Overload and rip teams apart 5-0 at least. I tried it in the first half against Barcelona and it wasnt working for me. Barcelona were putting me under pressure. 2nd Half I switche to standard and played 1 anchor man, 2nd half went much smoother. Won the game 2-0.

- Are you also unable to praise your players after a good game because they always seem to think they where bad despite two goals, an assist and a 8.5 rating?

Depends on the player. In team talk Hulk wont show any effect no matter what I say unless he plays badly. In private chat, sometimes he will score 2 goals and say he though he didnt play well and fact is, he didnt. He got 2 lucky goals after a terrible first half. Sure his endgame rating was good but he didnt deserve it really.Im not saying this problem doesnt exist, I know from my time managing Inter it does but its not always what it seems.

- Are you unable to set a player straight after he concedes a penalty kick, makes two passes straight to the opposition's feet that lead to goals and finishes with a 5.3 because he says that it's unfair to pinpoint him?

Never had that problem. Anyone below 6.0 gets moaned at then subbed at half time followed by post match private chat and they all agree they ****ed up and wont do it again.

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

No. Why would I want to rave like a lunatic on the sideline. Issuing touchline instructions to try and keep things level until half time is ok for me and is realistic. No manager is going to whip out a chalkboard and try explain to 11 men exactly what he wants in the middle of a stadium.

- Do you think it's completely disproportioned, when a player who has a rotation contract gets mad because he wants to play more, that you have to play him for 8 or 9 straight games before he's happy? He's a rotation!!!

Never had this problem. All of my players are currently happy with the amount of time they get. I have 2 goal keepers both as first team players and both are content with their amount of football. My midfield is rotated ALOT. I have 3 strikers, Hulk, Gomez and Ibrahimovic who I got on a free. Hulk starts 90% of games. I occasionally sub Gomez on and he starts early German cup games and Champions League Group Stages. Ibra, I use as a sub for games Gomez starts. No striker is complaining about lack of playing. Having squad harmony so high may be having a huge impact on this and I think it is.

- Don't a lot of losses seem very very random despite your team being in full-force, great spirit and awesome chemistry?

Its football. I had a game a few weeks ago where I had 32 shots, 22 on target, compared to opponents 3 shots with 1 on target. I lost 1-0. When I looked at the analysis I saw where all my shots were coming from, weird stupid unscorable angles. I located the problem, made some changes and now things are better. Yes on paper I should still be winning every game 8-0 but the game isnt on paper. There will always be games where you dominate but still lose, it happens all over the world. Look at Barcelonas game again Hercules last year.

So there you go, just a quick list of things that don't sit quite right with me. I think some things are too random in the game and some aspects of player interaction have just become ridiculous. I used to pull my hair out at the fact that defense seems to be something you can't make any better whoever you recruit or at my strikers for pissing away scoring opportunities like popping candy from a pez machine, but now I also have to be scared every time I adress a player. Now there is no logic whatsoever to how players answer you. It seems to be a lose-lose situation!

Football is random, people are even more random.

[DIJRP]

- Do opposing goalkeepers ALWAYS seem to have the best game of their career when playing you?

YES

[DIJRP]

- Do you nearly always get scored on from free-kicks or corners despite having a great defense and working the set piece defense in game practice for months!?

YES

- Don't a lot of losses seem very very random despite your team being in full-force, great spirit and awesome chemistry?

The entire game is by now "very very random" it's not just a question of one match.

Wanna talk about injuries ???

Wanna talk about awful IA in transfer market that buy players without any sense and let you buy what u want, exactly as, previous versions ..

I don't understand people that say "beautiful", "amazing", "great (same) game"; ... or they are newbie or they are in bad faith.

[milnerpoint]

yawn, another year another one of these threads.

I would say i disagree with everything said.

[Things Could Get Messi]

only thing that frustrates me is i can play against teams like bolton and wigan and there are some situations where we will always hit the net. then against teams like man utd and man city we create the same chances and put them wide! wouldnt mind if the gk saved them but we just seem to like being totally wasteful.

[DIJRP]

yawn, another year another one of these threads.

I would say i disagree with everything said.

ok so this game is PERFECT ...

PERFECT is the only word that could be used in this forum to deliver any concept ...

And if is not like this, in few minutes a moderator come and close the thread. lol.

[milnerpoint]

ok so this game is PERFECT ...

PERFECT is the only word that could be used in this forum to deliver any concept ...

And if is not like this, in few minutes a moderator come and close the thread. lol.

Eh?

No one except you is using the word perfect.

[DIJRP]

Eh?

No one except you is using the word perfect.

Aahhh ok ... sorry ...

[Cyäegha]

- Do opposing goalkeepers ALWAYS seem to have the best game of their career when playing you?

No. But there are at least three factors I can think of:

- maybe your tactics don't work well enough in attack (thus creating a lot of crappy, easy to stop, shots that make the opposition keeper look good)

- maybe you are judging from a number of games that is too small to be statistically significant and you just had some bad luck

- maybe it's just plain old confirmation bias: it happens as often to you as it does to your opponents, but you only remember the instances which seemed unfair to you.

- Do you nearly always get scored on from free-kicks or corners despite having a great defense and working the set piece defense in game practice for months!?

It's impossible to avoid absolutely all goals from set pieces, so if you concede very few goals from open play, it would make sense to concede the majority of your goals from set pieces and other unlucky situations. I think it's been said that it's a too easy to score from corner kicks in the game (and too difficult to score from direct free kicks) though, and that sounds plausible to me (but it goes both ways).

- For that matter doesn't it seem to you that whoever you recruit, whatever the level of your defense, nothing ever really changes for the goals you allow? Always the same number of goals allowed really!

I definitely saw a difference when I recruited Salvatore Bocchetti in my PSG save (my first choice CB pairing is now Bocchetti-Sakho instead of Sakho-Lugano). Bocchetti had a few crappy games when he began (I don't know if it was because he hadn't settled in my team yet, but it would make sense), but now that he is playing well, I can definitley see a difference. Playing with a high defensive line and a lot of pressing, Lugano was far more often caught out of position by quick strikers because of his lack of pace. But of course, if I played with a deep defensive line and instructed my CBs to only play short, simple passes, I probably wouldn't have seen an improvement...

Of course, that's just one example.

- Do your players seem to all of a sudden have the level of pre-teens when opposed with a team like Man U, Barcelona or Real Madrid? Can't make a pass, always give the ball straight to C. Ronaldo or Messi?

With PSG, I beat Barcelona 3-0 in my first European Super Cup, basically just by playing a counter attacking tactic, telling my players that they had no pressure, and parking the bus toward the end. I was certainly quite lucky, but still, it's hardly impossible to get a good team to perform against a great team... Of course, don't expect to win all the time against better teams!

- Are you also unable to praise your players after a good game because they always seem to think they where bad despite two goals, an assist and a 8.5 rating?

- Are you unable to set a player straight after he concedes a penalty kick, makes two passes straight to the opposition's feet that lead to goals and finishes with a 5.3 because he says that it's unfair to pinpoint him?

Team talks have so far looked consistent and logical for me. I do agree about player interactions though, they have sometimes seemed seriously weird to me...

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

You already have far more power than a real life manager during a game, because you can change your whole tactic at any time. I don't think it's fair to ask for even more ability to influence your team during play...

- Do you think it's completely disproportioned, when a player who has a rotation contract gets mad because he wants to play more, that you have to play him for 8 or 9 straight games before he's happy? He's a rotation!!!

If my employer doesn't respect his promises, it's going to take me quite a bit of time before I can trust him again... That seems to make sense to me. And keeping your rotation players happy in the first place isn't hard.

- Don't a lot of losses seem very very random despite your team being in full-force, great spirit and awesome chemistry?

That's because you are playing with a team which is so strong that, on paper, you should win 95% of your league games. That means that you are almost only going to lose when you get unlucky or make a really silly mistake. In real life, this is what happens to Real and Barcelona, who lose a few league games each season against other teams, which are all far weaker than them on paper. Champion's league games are a different story of course, since you will meet stronger teams there.

So there you go, just a quick list of things that don't sit quite right with me. I think some things are too random in the game and some aspects of player interaction have just become ridiculous. I used to pull my hair out at the fact that defense seems to be something you can't make any better whoever you recruit or at my strikers for pissing away scoring opportunities like popping candy from a pez machine, but now I also have to be scared every time I adress a player. Now there is no logic whatsoever to how players answer you. It seems to be a lose-lose situation!

Yeah, just frustrating! So join in and dish out some of your frustration!

I do agree about the player interaction giving some seriously weird results. But I certainly don't think the game is too random - there are a lot of random factors (or factors outside of a manager's control) in real-life football - if anything, there is a lot less randomness in Football Manager, considering how easy it is to get to a point where you win your league year in, year out, starting with any decent team.

[Kenco]

I've been having many frustrating situations as I play Manager 2012 and wonder if you other managers are experiencing the same.

Here's a little list of things I find strange. This list is based on playing with Paris Saint Germain, building the team up to be amongst the best in the world and leading them to many Champions Leagues and Ligue 1 championships.

- Do opposing goalkeepers ALWAYS seem to have the best game of their career when playing you?

- Do you nearly always get scored on from free-kicks or corners despite having a great defense and working the set piece defense in game practice for months!?

- For that matter doesn't it seem to you that whoever you recruit, whatever the level of your defense, nothing ever really changes for the goals you allow? Always the same number of goals allowed really!

- Do your players seem to all of a sudden have the level of pre-teens when opposed with a team like Man U, Barcelona or Real Madrid? Can't make a pass, always give the ball straight to C. Ronaldo or Messi?

So despite super goalies in EVERY game, nearly all free kicks and corners going in and these other problems you mention, you are still winning multiple Ligue 1 and Champions League titles?

Something doesn't add up here...

[Turneep]

So despite super goalies in EVERY game, nearly all free kicks and corners going in and these other problems you mention, you are still winning multiple Ligue 1 and Champions League titles?

Something doesn't add up here...

Some people expect to just keep pressing continue and winning everything and never ever losing and when that 1 loss against the relegation candidates pops up its rage time.

[CityAndColour]

I think the OP could certainly refine his post a little.

The biggest frustration for me is still the match engine and the 3D viewing. Mainly because all the things that annoyed me about FM11's viewing are still there, plain to see. Set piece defending, long balls down the wings catching full backs out of position, goal-kick/header/one on one etc. It's pretty clearly just the FM11 engine with a few more animations etc. Which is fine for a lot of people but still retains a few 'game-breakers' for myself.

I think once they refine ball movement and its realism a lot of the issues I have will improve though.

[bieritarier]

what furstrates me is that in addition to the fact that 6 of the last 7 opposition GK being man of the match, my team has hit the woodwork 18 times over the last 5 games..... I can't help but feel cheated sometimes, especially when the opposing teams then go on and score lucky goals from ompossible angles because Manuel Neuer could not catch a the ball to save his life...

I hope this bad streak ends soon..

Oh and if Robben, clean through on goal, shoots with his RIGHT foot once again I'm gonna smash everything I find in this room. Argh

[tomatrik]

About 99,9 % of the goals scored against my team,is scored by someone who scores his first goal of the season....or his first goal ever for that team.I'm now in 13-14 season,and this happens in almost in every single match.

Also every goalkeeper i meet plays the game og his life.That was the same in fm11.

Edit. Somehow i find it much harder to hold a lead in fm12.It's like I have to lead with 3 goals to win,cause someone always scores his first goal of the season and then in the 89 min....someone scores the first goal ever for the team.They always come back in the 2.period...no matter what team I play.May be my tactics,but very frustrating

[5pur5]

Love the people who come into these threads and say ''Its your tactics!'.

Ive got cavani upfront and with his finishing stats he shouldnt be missing chances from the penalty spot or around that area no matter what tactics i use yet he misses so many its silly.

I can go for months missing sitters and creating lots of chances where my stikers have gone from worldclass to non league players over night.

It has nothing to do with tactics it comes down to training, confidence and ability and when i have 5 stars for shooting in the coaches training ratings and 4 for attacking with top class facilities and a player with the composure and finishing of cavani who keeps missing sitters every game then yes it gets annoying.

[Kenco]

About 99,9 % of the goals scored against my team,is scored by someone who scores his first goal of the season....or his first goal ever for that team.I'm now in 13-14 season,and this happens in almost in every single match.

Also every goalkeeper i meet plays the game og his life.That was the same in fm11.

Edit. Somehow i find it much harder to hold a lead in fm12.It's like I have to lead with 3 goals to win,cause someone always scores his first goal of the season and then in the 89 min....someone scores the first goal ever for the team.They always come back in the 2.period...no matter what team I play.May be my tactics,but very frustrating

I think you are exaggerating like the OP. Give us some proof of these statistics!

[DIJRP]

[Kenco]

and the relevance of those screenshots is........?

[heathxxx]

Try "closing down always", "hard tackling always" and "man marking always" on your oppositions "super" keeper.

He's hardly "super" if his leg's hanging off, but don't blame me if your gorilla of a striker gets sent off.

[DIJRP]

and the relevance of those screenshots is........?

the relevance is that "often", we don't know how, we don't know why, (IA) goalkeepers are in godlike mode.

And this happens just to justify the lack of Match Engine.

So is something already watched that after a match with more than 20 attemps on goal, the IA scores (minute 89) from a corner.

another screenshot (of the same match), 38/62% ball possession.

Nothing personal, it's just to talk about the irrelevance of Match Engine and the ramdoness of FM.

Wanna talk about injuries ???

Wanna talk about awful IA in transfer market that buy players without any sense and let you buy what u want, exactly as, previous versions ... (EDIT: ... just BID have to be higher ...)

Wanna talk about red/yellow cards in a team with soft\normal tackles ???

[DIJRP]

Lecce perform even better with 38% ball possession (and 1 shoot on goal).

NB: BUFFON is not a world class GK, is a RANDOM GK ...

if u need more screenshots just ask me ...

[TwinsFan86]

Let's see, you had a total of 6 shots on target, and 5 of those were saved. 3 were from outside the penalty area and 2 were from a pretty tight angle. Your shots that were off target or blocked were almost all from just inside the penalty area and off to the side from a bit of an angle. You did have 3 shots from close that were off target, but without knowing the positioning of the GK, it's hard to tell much from those. One looks like it may have been a header that went over. SO you had 20 shots, but only 6 on target, with a handful of shots were close, but from an angle so they had a higher degree of difficulty.

Napoli, on the other hand, had one close shot that was saved, one header that they converted, and a couple long range bombs, one of which hit the woodwork.

So despite having 20 shots, you really only had 5 or 6 quality shots, 1 of which you converted to a goal. Napoli had 2 quality shots, one was saved, one wasn't. When you really break it down, the difference between the two sides certainly doesn't make a 1-1 draw an unjust result.

[anagain]

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

- Do you think it's completely disproportioned, when a player who has a rotation contract gets mad because he wants to play more, that you have to play him for 8 or 9 straight games before he's happy? He's a rotation!!!

- Don't a lot of losses seem very very random despite your team being in full-force, great spirit and awesome chemistry?

I am getting rather frustrated with the above three points. The number of times I see my players dawdle with the ball and then just walk it out of play or pass to an opponent makes me angry, but I can't tell them that. It's when they do it in the 5th minute and we're 3-0 down by hal time that I feel the most desperation.

Many of my worst defeats have come after we've lost a goal. We then just seem to fall apart as if morale has to great an effect. We could be playing like superstars up to that minute and then all of sudden we couldn't beat the St Neots Arms 4th eleven in a month of Sundays.

As for the number of players who've come to me to say they demand more first team action, but I've dropped them because they're crap, or have been playing crap, and don't deserve first team action. It's never I want to prove myself, though. It's always immediately that they want to leave, and whatever I say they still want to leave. From the moment of that talk they hate me and morale is shot. What ever happened to FM11's prove yourself in training and we'll see?

I'm going to add team talks. I just feel they're far too important in the grand scheme of things and they influence results more than the ability of players or the tactics I use. If a player doesn't get a good reaction from what I say to him then he seems to play badly, regardless. I have a striker who puts in some dazzling performances, so when it came to a game we simply had to win I told to play like he did in the game before. He promptly played a 6.0, never made any of his dazzling runs and we lost 4-1. It was almost if he could never play well after that talk.

To say I'm doing badly in this version of FM would be an understatement. I got relegated with my first club and I'd need to win my last three games 5-0 to avoid relegation at my second club. I just can't find anything that works and I do think team talks determine results, but also do I think they seem random. Sometimes telling a player he can make a difference works, then another time it doesn't. When it doesn't work I'm doomed.

I really like this version of FM, but I'm starting to get very frustrated with it actually seeming as random as you say. In years gone by I might have said that someone posting this was delusional and imagining it. If I was winning maybe I'd feel different, but I can't buy a win...or at least a run of wins.

[Kenco]

DIJRP, your screenshots are probably the worst argument for a super keeper ever.

[DIJRP]

First of all, i'm really unhappy with this final table, during the season even 20 points advatage on the second ... ^^

Napoli, on the other hand, had one close shot that was saved, one header that they converted, and a couple long range bombs, one of which hit the woodwork.

So despite having 20 shots, you really only had 5 or 6 quality shots, 1 of which you converted to a goal. Napoli had 2 quality shots, one was saved, one wasn't. When you really break it down, the difference between the two sides certainly doesn't make a 1-1 draw an unjust result.

Consider that there are also 7 shoots (OUT) from penalty area and other 6 shoots (from penalty area) blocked.

DIJRP, your screenshots are probably the worst argument for a super keeper ever.

I'm talking about "ramdomness", super GKs are just part of the argument.

[Overmars]

Over the long run in sports, you generally get the rewards you deserve. Over the short run, there is considerable variance, and you might experience some good/bad luck results. That's the nature of sports, and it needs to be in this game too or else the best team would go undefeated, the worst team would go winless, and the game would be really boring.

[Guest]

The fact that no one from SI ever really comments on the Super Keeper thing speaks volumes to me. It's obvious that there's some kind of balancing done with CCCs when a team (human or AI) is dominating to compensate for the way the ME interprets the difference between players/teams.

If you created a striker with perfect attributes for his position, eg: Finishing 20, Composure 20, Decisions 20, etc, it'd be really interesting in seeing how many CCCs he converts.

[TwinsFan86]

Consider that there are also 7 shoots (OUT) from penalty area and other 6 shoots (from penalty area) blocked.

That's my whole point, all but 3 of your off target/blocked shots were not from good positions. That has nothing to do with randomness or super keepers. It's your players not being in good shooting positions.

[Jay96]

What irritates me isn't the random defeats at the end of good runs. Good runs all have to end some time. What irritates me, is after losing one, it's nailed on you'll lose the next five. The amount of sequences I have which go: WWWWWLLLL is unbelievable.

[speedas]

I've been having many frustrating situations as I play Manager 2012 and wonder if you other managers are experiencing the same.

Here's a little list of things I find strange. This list is based on playing with Paris Saint Germain, building the team up to be amongst the best in the world and leading them to many Champions Leagues and Ligue 1 championships.

- Do opposing goalkeepers ALWAYS seem to have the best game of their career when playing you?

- Do you nearly always get scored on from free-kicks or corners despite having a great defense and working the set piece defense in game practice for months!?

- For that matter doesn't it seem to you that whoever you recruit, whatever the level of your defense, nothing ever really changes for the goals you allow? Always the same number of goals allowed really!

- Do your players seem to all of a sudden have the level of pre-teens when opposed with a team like Man U, Barcelona or Real Madrid? Can't make a pass, always give the ball straight to C. Ronaldo or Messi?

- Are you also unable to praise your players after a good game because they always seem to think they where bad despite two goals, an assist and a 8.5 rating?

- Are you unable to set a player straight after he concedes a penalty kick, makes two passes straight to the opposition's feet that lead to goals and finishes with a 5.3 because he says that it's unfair to pinpoint him?

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

- Do you think it's completely disproportioned, when a player who has a rotation contract gets mad because he wants to play more, that you have to play him for 8 or 9 straight games before he's happy? He's a rotation!!!

- Don't a lot of losses seem very very random despite your team being in full-force, great spirit and awesome chemistry?

So there you go, just a quick list of things that don't sit quite right with me. I think some things are too random in the game and some aspects of player interaction have just become ridiculous. I used to pull my hair out at the fact that defense seems to be something you can't make any better whoever you recruit or at my strikers for pissing away scoring opportunities like popping candy from a pez machine, but now I also have to be scared every time I adress a player. Now there is no logic whatsoever to how players answer you. It seems to be a lose-lose situation!

Yeah, just frustrating! So join in and dish out some of your frustration!

I don't really agree with you but a customer is always right and it's not the first time I read these critics. I would not be suprised if SI use cheating programmes to balance the gameplay, like any sport game in the world.

[wwfan]

The two about player reactions to team talk and the rotation problem.

Confirmed bugs are also the scout problem and the squad registration problem.

I would suggest people should stop getting upset about the bad ratio of chances/ccc/1 on1s vs Goals - it's just a mechanism to keep scores realistic since the engine can't do it through A.I. It can't be changed because it's one of the solid pillars the match engine has been built upon. Wait for the new engine.

Not that SI has ever admitted this engine problem... But their silence in the matter all these years says a lot in my book.

The fact that no one from SI ever really comments on the Super Keeper thing speaks volumes to me. It's obvious that there's some kind of balancing done with CCCs when a team (human or AI) is dominating to compensate for the way the ME interprets the difference between players/teams.

It has been discussed to death.

Paul has clearly stated on a number of occasions that there is no weighting mechanism against the user as the ME isn't aware of which team the user is managing. There are no super keeper boosts or any form of rubber banding to keep scores realistic. If you are not scoring a high percentage of your chances, it is down to things you are doing, not because the AI is artificially preventing it. Some users have terrible conversion ratios, at circa 1 goal per 12.5 shots. Others have phenomenal ones, at circa 1 goal every 7.5 shots (NB the average in real life is circa 1 in 9-10 shots (depending on the study), AI teams are usually between 1 in 9 and 1 in 11). If all users were at the higher ends, then you'd have a case, but as they aren't, it is something individual users are doing.

The CCCs stat was implemented to try and help users work out why they were not converting. However, it is so liberal in its calculations it arguably makes things worse, as for many of the chances it determines are CCCs, the keeper is actually a huge favourite. I've long argued they need to be far more conservative in their calculation. Ultimately, you need to have an educated, subjective eye. We can use DIJRP's post as an example.

He's argued that because he's had so many shots, he should have comfortably won. However, if you look closely, the best two chances of the match fell to his opposition. In terms of shot position, DIJRP created 5 good chances to Napoli's 2, but their two were better than the best of his five. Statistical analyses of football goals would suggest that Napoli would score 50% of their good chances (in front of goal, in space, circa 6 yards out), whereas DJIRP would score 20-25% of his good chances (not between the posts, in space, 6-12 yards out). Note that the player has to be in space, not closely marked, for these chances to be considered any better than a 1 in 10 shot. We cannot tell from the graphic whether this was the case or not. The expected scoreline is somewhere between 1-1 and 1-2, with 1-1 being the far more likely score. You can then have a subjective argument about how good DJIRP's best chance is versus Napoli's 2nd best chance and make a case for his chances of a 2nd goal being slightly higher. However, it will not majorly change the likelihood of 1-1 being the most common result.

I also find it ridiculous that somebody winning the league by 20 points and only conceding a goal every other game is complaining about individual matches. The best team doesn't always win. If you didn't have the odd 'against the run of play' result, then FM would be a terrible simulation of real life football.

[Toon]

It's frustrating that one of my players got sent off 20 minutes in a cup final when we were comfortably winning 2-0 which then we went on to lose 4-2. Then after I fine him 2 weeks wages and he says that he is concernced.

[Gusano]

you just cant say just that, if you do, you got to say why you disagree

I can say whatever I want. All of this stuff is so subjective. If they were actual errors where a clear problem occurred, then I might take some interest.

"- Do you think it's completely disproportioned, when a player who has a rotation contract gets mad because he wants to play more, that you have to play him for 8 or 9 straight games before he's happy? He's a rotation!!!"

It is almost impossible to replicate the circumstances in which this happened so it's not like you can fix this. Just deal with it.

[Guest]

It has been discussed to death.

Paul has clearly stated on a number of occasions that there is no weighting mechanism against the user as the ME isn't aware of which team the user is managing. There are no super keeper boosts or any form of rubber banding to keep scores realistic. If you are not scoring a high percentage of your chances, it is down to things you are doing, not because the AI is artificially preventing it. Some users have terrible conversion ratios, at circa 1 goal per 12.5 shots. Others have phenomenal ones, at circa 1 goal every 7.5 shots (NB the average in real life is circa 1 in 9-10 shots (depending on the study), AI teams are usually between 1 in 9 and 1 in 11). If all users were at the higher ends, then you'd have a case, but as they aren't, it is something individual users are doing.

I agree that the OP isn't the best example, and I do remember Paul saying there's no weighting against the user controlled teams because the ME can't distinguish between the two. But saying there's no weighting against the user isn't the same thing as saying there's no weighting against more powerful teams, computer or user controlled. People are getting the issue confused because it's generally the user controlled teams which are missing the most CCCs. Or, at least, that's what the user is paying attention to and remembering. Missing loads of chances = AI cheating - I know that's not the case.

There is nothing in the game which explains why your star striker suddenly starts missing easy chance after easy chance. People cop out and say it's tactics but there's no explanation why players can dribble, tackle, pass, etc perfectly fine, but in the same game strikers just start missing CCCs. It isn't a morale issue and it's not because the opposition keeper has amazing stats.

The game just does an incredibly poor job of explaining it so you're left frustrated and confused.

I'd be interested to see the real life chance conversion stats for players like Messi and Hernandez and see how they compare to the chances missed in the FM games.

[Jibby123]

If Torres moved to Chelsea for £50m on the game and then scored just a couple of goals in nearly a whole year, including in one game rounded a keeper and just dinked it wide of the open goal...I'd say the ME was unrealistic as well. You can't go from world class to 3rd class in months after all. Torres has missed a shedload of CCC's or don't Chelsea create him any irl??

I think some want Sky Sports HD reality in how the match highlights reflect how the ME gets to a final result in a match. Sure, it would be nice...but come on.