The massive frustration of Football manager

[wwfan]

The game just does an incredibly poor job of explaining it so you're left frustrated and confused.

That I do agree with. It is that this element is less than perfectly implemented that causes most of the frustration. This, and not any form of weighting (which doesn't exist in any form), is the problem

I'd be interested to see the real life chance conversion stats for players like Messi and Hernandez and see how they compare to the chances missed in the FM games.

This is a must read:

http://www.eplindex.com/wayne-rooney-scoring-efficiently/

Indeed, trawling through that site will help anybody and everybody understanding conversion ratios and football stats.

[wwfan]

Although I don't know exactly how OPTA define a CCC in their metrics, I have read some research reports that define it thus:

1: Player must be within 12 yards of the goal

2: Player must be in 1 yard of space

3: Player must be shooting with his first or second touch

4: Player must not be outside of a line drawn from the posts and extending through the corners of the 6-yard box

5: If the chance is a one on one (the player is clear of the defence), the distance of shot can be greater than 12 yards as long as it is taken within the first two touches.

6: Once a one on one is within 12 yards, it is a CCC no matter how many touches the player has taken to get there.

7: If the player has rounded the keeper, the chance is a CCC no matter how many touches he has taken or how far out he is.

FM's CCC concept is far more liberal than that. If you assume OPTA isn't deviating hugely from previous research on good scoring chances, then the following posts are very interesting (although somewhat depressing for Liverpool fans):

http://www.eplindex.com/liverpool-misfiring-top-4/

http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/10/waste-not-want-not/

The average conversion rate for CCCs is 1 in 3, which would be pretty much what I'd expect from the research reports I've read. From these stats, Man City are comfortably the best team in England, creating a CCC every 30 minutes and converting 50% of them. Man Utd create CCCs every 29 minutes, but only convert 40%. Liverpool create them every 37 minutes, but only convert roughly 1 in 5!!

Really useful information for those complaining about CCC conversion rates in FM.

[DIJRP]

He's argued that because he's had so many shots, he should have comfortably won.

No, I didn't said that i've to win the match, "comfortably".

What i want to say is that sometimes we have many match in which your team is always "dangerous", with 65% ball possession and score (in a statistical way) few times; on the other side there is a team with 35% ball possession that score a goal from a corner 1 minute before the end of the match ...

I really said that i want to win "confortably" ??? where did u read it ???

Note that the player has to be in space, not closely marked, for these chances to be considered any better than a 1 in 10 shot. We cannot tell from the graphic whether this was the case or not.

how much space there is on a corner kick with 6 of your players that are man-marking, 1 on the first post, 2 back in defence and just 1 outside penalty area ???

this "justification" is not good, i'm sorry but try to "invent" something else that we can trust ...

I also find it ridiculous that somebody winning the league by 20 points and only conceding a goal every other game is complaining about individual matches. The best team doesn't always win. If you didn't have the odd 'against the run of play' result, then FM would be a terrible simulation of real life football.

... and i find ridiculous that in the most balanced league (in Europe) it happens ...,

take a look to the table of the last 20 editions of Serie A, and tell us how many times a team has won it with more that 10 points.

Ultimately, you need to have an educated, subjective eye

Don't worry and be sure that mine is an educated subjective eye, i'm here just to share my opinion

... it is possible ??? is this a forum ???

Are u a moderator or an educator ???

[wwfan]

Are u a moderator or an educator ???

When it comes to the parts of the game I'm heavily involved with, an educator. There's only one person who can talk about the ME with any more authority than I do (Paul C) and there's nobody who can talk about the tactical logic of the TC with more authority than I can.

... and i find ridiculous that in the most balanced league (in Europe) it happens ...

I don't get it. You are simultaneously complaining that the game is too easy (given your big league win) yet it is unfair when you don't win certain games. Bit of a paradoxical position, no?

how much space there is on a corner kick with 6 of your players that are man-marking, 1 on the first post, 2 back in defence and just 1 outside penalty area ???

I don't know. Obviously enough to score from. Furthermore, how many of your 5 decent chances were in space? The only thing that would help determine this is screenshots of each chance.

[Flohrinho]

The fact that you are able to dominate nearly every game but still are only able to win by a slim margin is really frustrating. It would be much more realistic if you couldn't dominate 99% of the games like you can in FM. I rather take a draw against a weaker opponent that fought well and gave my team a real run for the money instead of a game where I can't even convert the best chances but they score because my defenders decided it was time to move out of the way and my goal keeper was to lazy to move. It just feels like the game is cheating on you and it happens quite often.

I think in reality we can see games like this sometimes where the underdog scores a last minute goal despite having no chance during the entire game but that happens about one in 20 games and not every third or fourth game. Instead it would also be nice to have a bad game for your team where you get saved due to the fact that you have world class players in your squad and one of them had a moment of brilliance showing why he is regraded one of the best players in the world.

Or a bad game where you world class keeper saves your teams ass instead of the average Joe in the other team.

I totally agree that even the best teams shouldn't be able to win every game and there needs to be an upset happening every now and then but there should also be more games where the better team can have a bad day or even get away with a bad day because of how good their individual players are.

So I would totally prefer trading in some of my dominance for the fact that I wouldn't have to live with one of these super frustrating dominant games nearly every weekend.

I also think it's where a lot of the frustration for other players comes from.

[DIJRP]

dear wwfan,

Believe me, i'm really honored to exchange, in this forum, opinions with someone heavely involved in parts of the game. But nothing personal, I hope that for u is not a problem if I (totally) disagree with the role of educator and on the grade of authority ...

When u talk about football, real football, u never stop to learn.

This is not my opinion, is what great managers that works in real football tells us.

Humility is very important, is something that really help you learn.

I don't get it. You are simultaneously complaining that the game is too easy (given your big league win) yet it is unfair when you don't win certain games. Bit of a paradoxical position, no?

It's not a paradoxical position.

I want to lose games, for hypothesis, because IA give me a lesson of football and show me how to play, who is the stonger side etc... i'm serious, i don't like lose\draw games in a "superficial" manner, with a goal from a corner; Or, other example, i don't like the IA team that, at the first season, wins every match even in the weeks where there are fixture in champions\europa league.

The game is easy, i'm not complaining about that, is a fact; this is the true at least for who knows the series from many years.

I don't want to be disrespectful but ... Did u play it on Amiga ???

When u lose\draw games it happens in a bad way, i don't know how to describe it better but i'm sure there are other people that can share my point of view.

In conclusion ME, atm, is too frenetic and tens to be more generous for user team and to be more precise in Italy, Serie A, we don't score 5/6 goal per match, the standard is 2/3 goal per match.

a match with more goals is something almost rare.

There are also many (interesting) 0-0 with few attemps on goal ...

regards,

[wwfan]

I am quite happy to learn from you if you produce some real evidence.

Firstly, can you post some evidence illustrating that your five decent chances have a much greater than 1 in 5 chance of being converted and that the one conceded has a much lower chance than 1 in 2. I'm always open to reading more up to date research. The research I've drawn from is:

• ESTIMATING THE PROBABILITY OF A SHOT RESULTING IN A GOAL: THE EFFECTS OF DISTANCE, ANGLE AND SPACE: Richard Pollard, Jake Ensum and Samuel Taylor
  
• Measuring the Effectiveness of Playing Strategies at Soccer: Richard Pollard and Charles Reep
  
• Application of logistic regression to shots at goal in association football: calculation of shot probabilities, quantification of factors, and player/team: Richard Pollard, Jake Ensum and Samuel Taylor
  

Secondly, can you please provide screenshots of the goals or upload the pkm so we can look at them/it to ascertain how good a chance they are based on the conclusions of the above papers or any of the research you have.

Thirdly, can you please upload your tactical file so we can determine why it is producing the type of match scenario that you are experiencing.

The game is easy, i'm not complaining about that, is a fact; this is the true at least for who knows the series from many years. Did u play it on Amiga ???

And when u lose\draw games it happens in a bad way.

I did play it on the Amiga. Thanks for asking. However, the internal logic of the game then and now is totally different, so it is an irrelevant fact.

I would argue that you have generated to using tactics that absolutely dominate possession and have a high shot count, no matter how well the team is playing. This type of tactic undermines the ME. It has become increasingly more difficult to build such a tactic, but it is still very possible. Add in your knowledge of which players are going to be really good and you will have a huge advantage over the AI. Consequently, every game you lose will look unfair statistically, although an educated eye will reveal it is actually quite fair (as your example, at first glance, clarifies).

Seeing your .tac file and a pkm will really help in terms of discovering what the real issue is here.

[Carmi88]

only things I seem to see are

Goalkeepers pussy out of coming for a ball allowing opposition a goal scoring chance too often

Teams who go down to 10 or 9 men who already hold a lead are impossible to score against

Throw ins taking by opposition next to your box always go to an unmarked man near the flag who can cross it in for an easy goal

Strikers for your team are **** at finishing and the opposition always score within 3 attempts, bar the odd striker who has a great season

[wwfan]

1: Player must be within 12 yards of the goal (every yard decreases the chance of conversion by 11% for shots, 39% for headers)

2: Player must be in 1 yard of space (a header has 30% more chance of being converted in the player is in a yard or more of space)

3: Player must be shooting with his first or second touch

4: Player must not be outside of a line drawn from the posts and extending through the corners of the 6-yard box

5: If the chance is a one on one (the player is clear of the defence), the distance of shot can be greater than 12 yards as long as it is taken within the first two touches.

6: Once a one on one is within 12 yards, it is a CCC no matter how many touches the player has taken to get there.

7: If the player has rounded the keeper, the chance is a CCC no matter how many touches he has taken or how far out he is.

Having briefly browsed back through the research, there are a couple of other factors as well:

8: The shot should be preceded by a lateral ball / cross, which is 50% more likely to produce a goal than any other form of pass (NB a lateral ball followed by a single, first time forward pass is not regarded as handicapping the shooter. It is the quick change of angles that provides the advantage)

9: The chance of scoring increases by 28% for every other attacking player in front of the goal (within 12 yards, between the posts) prior to the assist pass / cross being played

[Coentrao]

-The fickleness of the match engine where all it takes it's a strategy switch for the AI to score right after kick-off when you concede.

-How the dynamic of the ME just become a mini-game of picking the right strategy to counter the AI strategy with little regard to player ability, it's the most obvious reason why so many people complain about overachieving with mediocre teams, player ability should be a lot more important than it actually is.

[DIJRP]

Seeing your .tac file and a pkm will really help in terms of discovering what the real issue is here.

.tac file

http://www.tempfiles.net/download/201111/218089/4231.html

[wwfan]

There are certainly things you could be doing better tactically.

1: You've modified your mentality structure, which stretches the team and detaches the back four form the midfield. The knock on is relatively clear to see in a game, as the tactic often allows the opposition forwards and wingers a clear run at the back four.

2: This also knocks ont not getting enough wide support from your FBs when you are attacking. Because they don't get forward overly frequently, you end up having reduced passing angles in the final third.

3: The tactic hardly produces any dangerous balls in the final third. All of your possession is in the lower two thirds, with next to none of it dangerous. Given your reputation, most teams will sit back against you, inflating your overall possession but reducing your dangerous possession.

4: The short-passing and detached nature of the mentality results in final third play being easy to break down. Although you have completely stopped long shots, most of the shots are from range. Indeed, the total reduction of long shots is knocking on to your players not taking the long shot when it is on and only taking them when all passing options have disappeared (a result of 2 & 3).

There are other things you could tinker with, but these are the key issues. Ultimately, you have created a solid, possession tactic which lacks a bit of bite and is vulnerable to a running counter attack. With a very high class side, excellent players will compensate for the weaknesses in the tactic, as they will create chances in the congested final third through sheer ability alone. However, you will see some matches when the best they can create is half chances. This will produce enough frustration in the team to see them snatching at any half-decent chance and becoming increasingly likely to concede soft goals. Although you might not notice this with a world class team, with a lower level side, the flaws are immediately apparent.

Although your tactic is obviously a good one, it will produce the type of match that bothers you on a regular basis.

[kendall75]

Well this message certainly has generated some interest! Good. It's a nice thing to get replies and see various opinions.

I think my post was slightly misinterpreted as to it's level of annoyance. I like football manager but just thought it would be interesting to pull together some of it's frustrating attributes.

I do think some of you guys are unfair towards me and quite high and mighty. Good for you if everything makes you happy and you never get frustrated but allow others to be!

I believe some attributes of the game just are off. Several have said that agree with me about having player interaction during the game, several have disagreed. I myself really stand by my opinion, you should be able to interact with your players. When Mourinho is mad because his team isn't getting involved enough he yells at specific players and tells them to get their act together. If he's unhappy with how the game is going down, during a stop in play, he calls the captain over and gives him new indications to have the team respect. So the tactics you can change at anytime are actually just like in real football. If Mourinho wants the striker to come back more to collect the ball and run it up the field, he tells him that by the sidelines or through another player.

When a player is acting sluggish, not running to the ball and keeps having it stolen from him, the coach yells at him to move his a**. When a guy keeps shooting the ball from crappy positions 25 meters out even though he had other guys wide open, then the coach yells at him to cut the crap and look for his team mates. The only option we have is to wait for half-time, get in the guy's face and hope he reacts. If he doesn't, replace him. We should be able to yell at him right after he screws up!

For the rest, yes, football is random in reality as well. It certainly is and that's part of the charm. But it doesn't mean we're not allowed to get frustrated and speak up about it.

Even you, super players, don't wonder what the heck is wrong when a ball is coming towards your goalkeeper and he just stand there instead of going to collect it? Even you stay perfectly calm when your players make those weird headers that race back towards the goal are collected by the opposition striker and converted into a goal? Some things, some mistakes, just happen too often.

But come on, let us rant a bit if we want. You want to debate the fact that we're wrong to? That's fine!! Just don't get arrogant and unpleasant about it. I love this game and play it lots, but it has its quirks and absences, some of which get to be massively annoying.

[scjb045]

I've been having many frustrating situations as I play Manager 2012 and wonder if you other managers are experiencing the same.

Here's a little list of things I find strange. This list is based on playing with Paris Saint Germain, building the team up to be amongst the best in the world and leading them to many Champions Leagues and Ligue 1 championships.

- Do opposing goalkeepers ALWAYS seem to have the best game of their career when playing you?

- Do you nearly always get scored on from free-kicks or corners despite having a great defense and working the set piece defense in game practice for months!?

- For that matter doesn't it seem to you that whoever you recruit, whatever the level of your defense, nothing ever really changes for the goals you allow? Always the same number of goals allowed really!

- Do your players seem to all of a sudden have the level of pre-teens when opposed with a team like Man U, Barcelona or Real Madrid? Can't make a pass, always give the ball straight to C. Ronaldo or Messi?

- Are you also unable to praise your players after a good game because they always seem to think they where bad despite two goals, an assist and a 8.5 rating?

- Are you unable to set a player straight after he concedes a penalty kick, makes two passes straight to the opposition's feet that lead to goals and finishes with a 5.3 because he says that it's unfair to pinpoint him?

- Do you get annoyed that it's impossible to yell at your team and set them right from the sidelines instead of having to wait for half-time? Haven't seen many coaches stay quiet on the sidelines myself!

- Do you think it's completely disproportioned, when a player who has a rotation contract gets mad because he wants to play more, that you have to play him for 8 or 9 straight games before he's happy? He's a rotation!!!

- Don't a lot of losses seem very very random despite your team being in full-force, great spirit and awesome chemistry?

So there you go, just a quick list of things that don't sit quite right with me. I think some things are too random in the game and some aspects of player interaction have just become ridiculous. I used to pull my hair out at the fact that defense seems to be something you can't make any better whoever you recruit or at my strikers for pissing away scoring opportunities like popping candy from a pez machine, but now I also have to be scared every time I adress a player. Now there is no logic whatsoever to how players answer you. It seems to be a lose-lose situation!

Yeah, just frustrating! So join in and dish out some of your frustration!

I agree with you on the shouting part. sometimes I just want to blurt out at some of the players playing badly. as for the shooting, try designing a training method your strikers that concentrate on technique and shooting a lot. you can even sign a coach or two with high attack coaching attributes. I've found this to be helpful not just in this edition but in the past editions of FM. when a player's slump begins, start gently reminding that he needs to regain his confidence, when it gets bad and the stats are obvious, I've gone as far as threatening transfer listing. If he is a player worth changing tactics for (meaning player value like your messis or ronaldos), you might even give that a go. FM 12 is good in that you can familiarize your team to up to 3 formations, which can help you find the optimum one for the particular player(s) to excel at.

As for playing against a big team like Barca Real or the English giants, it IS possible to beat them, but bloody difficult. The key is to have fantastic Defensive midfielders. You will almost always have to play a DM when you play against these giants. Im assuming you are talking about playing them in the Champions League. Here's what you can do.

In Knockout stage, a 2-legged tie, don't be afraid to attack them at your home. These big teams crave you to let them near your goal. So don't drop too deep at home because you need to try and win. Push up and play your most effective attacking formation, and see what your assistant manager would suggest as a starting lineup (you don't necessarily have to use it, but he might give you a good insight). You should also consider resting your top players in league matches prior to these big european encounters. As for the away matches, as much as I hate watching this in real life, Park the bus lol. If done properly, it works magnificently (also encourage your goalies before the game). In the CL semifinal in my first year in charge of Chelsea (I know, a big club but still no CL ) I faced Barcelona (my beloved). They took the lead, and I saw how one of my player had become demoralized. I subbed him straight away and I set my tactics to attack relentlessly. The team turned the match around and won 3-2 at home. Not a safe score for a second leg match-up with the best team in the world in the biggest stadium in europe, but I pulled a Mourinho (shamefully) and parked the giant aeroplane and came out 0-0 as finalist. Its difficult but im tellin ya, study your opponents (even go watch a few of their league matches) and you will find weaknesses. The win will make it feel worth the while. I'd imagine PSG will give you some good money, so buy great DMs. parking the bus starts from great DMs.

Best of luck

[kendall75]

You present a good argument scjb045. I have already won matches against these teams but I just can't get over the fact that so often it just seems like my team isn't even trying against them. Despite much encouragement, playing high and with offensive settings, my guys just seem to be playing their worst football every time. Sometimes I come out on top, sometimes not. But at one point, when you've won the CL 4 or 5 times and have guys like Mascherano, Matuidi, Criscito or Montolivo on your team, you shouldn't be getting your b*tt handed to you everytime you face one of the "Big" teams. You've become one of them!!

That actually is one of the things that I find most unrealistic, the club's credibility doesn't grow enough with CL wins, even when there are several. It doesn't seem easier to attract big names to PSG even after dominating Europe.

[DIJRP]

There are certainly things you could be doing better tactically.

hi wwfan,

your evaluation resume very well what are the main cons of this tactic.

But it is just the "general" setup that I use to approach the match; usually, some minutes before the end of the first half, based on how the match is going, I change it with other 3 versions (of the same "nature") with some differences in team\players instuctions.

to give you, a complete point of view, here you find the other 3 files.

http://www.tempfiles.net/download/201111/218152/4231-counter-v4.html

http://www.tempfiles.net/download/201111/218154/4231-ATK-v2.html

http://www.tempfiles.net/download/201111/218156/424-v3.html

... it will produce the type of match that bothers you on a regular basis.

...it really do not bother me because, the mixture of this 3/4 tactics, produce more or less this results ...

PS:

2: This also knocks ont not getting enough wide support from your FBs when you are attacking. Because they don't get forward overly frequently, you end up having reduced passing angles in the final third.

An option for FBs that will be very welcomed:

if one go forward, the other one have to stay back (on the same line of DC...).

This is the reason why I always prefer a more conservative style.

The same option (in attack phase) for Ws, could be a great addition; If a winger is attacking on a side, the other one have to stay outside area, not in front of goal... Or at least the possibility to choose

[Turneep]

You seem to be conceding goals against the weaker teams which backs up exactly what wwfan has been saying.

[scjb045]

yeah thats true, its like the team gains NOTHING from your leadership and club as a whole gains nothing. I suppose its even more annoying if you are loyal and stay with the club for years. In my first season with Chelsea, I won the league, the league cup and the champions league. I wanted to stay and win every other trophy while defending the champions league, but for a club as rich as Chelsea and specially having won the frikkin CL, i expected a bit more generous transfer budget. So i figured I'll move on. Right before I quit Chelsea, Capello offered me the Great Britain U23 manager role to lead them into the Olympics (which was pretty cool). I quit Chelsea, and while I prepped the squad for the Olympics (which we later won), Guardiola took over as head coach of Spanish National Team, and Barcelona approached me with a 5 year offer. If I spent 5 years with Barca I'd be so bored because there's not much of a challenge. I signed for one year, I'm hoping for an unbeaten league season while destroying Real Madrid, and win CL. I hope to get a job in Italy after, I hope to go for the Grand Slam haha

[wonderweis]

finished 1 season with chelsea..this is what i found that is so damn annoying compared to previous FM..

1. Througout the last season, and continue until now, new season october 2012, my players always, i mean ALWAYS injured during international duty..and when i wrote this, lukaku finished his international duty and come to his beloved stadium saying that he will have holidays for 5months!! GREAT!!!

2. Injury will ALWAYS be 3,4 weeks...last season bought ganso during the first transfer window, roman involved in the transfer process which cost 36million, and guess what, due to all this annoying thing i listed here, he only played 18 games!!! btw, i have 5 physios, 19-20 attribute at physiotherapy, all of them

3. ok, this happen a lot..i shoot ON TARGET 11-12, got 1 or 2 goals..opponent shoot 3 on target, 2 goals...f**k...there are torres,cech,lampard and terry on that pitch!!! who do you think they are???

4. liverpool come to stamford bridge, 10minutes...25minutes...2nd half start, 50minutes...70minutes..OMG!!! reina is a robot!! he's performance is up when playing away!! not feeling nervous?? possession, chelsea 62% - liverpool 38%...oh,suarez shoot!! that's liverpool second shot throughout the game, annnnd, GOALLLLL!!!! F**k!!

i know people will say this is how it should be, this happen once a while...but no, in this game, to me with chelsea, it is not once a while

that's all from me...thank you..zzzz

[kendall75]

Yeah so about the communicating with your players thing. NO ONE can tell me it isn't completely idiotic and **** poorly done! Just had a nice conversation with one of my players:

The Player - Just scored 3 goals and assisted on the other in a 4 - 2 victory. He finished the first half with a 8.5 and the match with 9.7

The conversation:

Me - I really liked the number and quality of chances you produced in the last match. keep it up!

Him - I really don't think I was good. We seem to have very different opinions about what makes a "good performance".

Me - I really liked your last game, but if you think you can do better please feel free!

Him - I guess this is enough...

SERIOUSLY??? Not a single player in the world would actually take his manager's comments poorly after scoring 3 goals and an assist during a match. Not when you're congratulating him and telling him to keep it up. The AI for the communications with players is just messed up. How can I just have made my player's moral lower by telling him he rocked in a game where he got a hat trick!? It's freaking impossible!

[wwfan]

hi wwfan,

your evaluation resume very well what are the main cons of this tactic.

But it is just the "general" setup that I use to approach the match; usually, some minutes before the end of the first half, based on how the match is going, I change it with other 3 versions (of the same "nature") with some differences in team\players instuctions.

It obviously has its strengths as well or you wouldn't be top. However, it does lend itself to the lots of shots / few goals / soft equaliser matches you complained about in an earlier post for the reasons I outlined.

An option for FBs that will be very welcomed:

if one go forward, the other one have to stay back (on the same line of DC...).

This is the reason why I always prefer a more conservative style.

The same option (in attack phase) for Ws, could be a great addition; If a winger is attacking on a side, the other one have to stay outside area, not in front of goal... Or at least the possibility to choose [/Quote]

The best way to set FBs up is in conjunction with winger settings. For example, if you have one winger on a Support Duty, you can add overlaps on that flanks by pushing the FB into an Attack Duty. If you want to be really aggressive, then give him a Wing Back role. If the Winger has an Attack Duty, you might want the FB to stay deeper, which would mean giving him a Support Duty, or even a Defend Duty if you want to be really conservative on that flank.

You are using the 'Move into Channels' option for wingers. Move into Channels is actually a wide movement for central players, encouraging them to move wider. WIngers should be given either "Hugs Touchline' which keeps them wide or 'Cuts Inside' which encourages them to move into more central positions.

[jdrawmer]

I must say i haven't found any of those to be problems. Sometimes I concede rubbish free kicks, but then I would in real life and i'd think about changing the way I defend them, or work on it in match prep if it's happening in a run of games...

When players have played well, they seem to respond well to my praise, because it tends to be passionate. Some players don't respond well to anything anyway, so maybe they're just pre-madonna's. And more so, when my team have been playing badly in the first half or at full time, i don't think i've had one NEGATIVE team talk involving aggression - they always seem to fire them up. Perhaps you're using them at the wrong time, perhaps being too hard on them?

Just because you might be set as rotation doesn't mean you can't be unhappy. PErhaps they've performed well in training, or have played well when they have come on and feel they deserve a chance, being as they are rotation and should be playing, as a result, into the teens (number of games).

You can be on fantastic form, and then suffer a defeat - if it was all about chemistry and form, then the game would be rubbish because you'd just have teams winning and losing, without anything in-between.