Defending!

[dolph11]

My main problem with FM has always been it's defending. No matter what tactics I set up I struggle defensively. I see others like to play a high defensive line, but what do you do with that? In a 4 at the back formation I've tried one as a cover defender as well as both as normal defenders. With the cover option I just found the cover defender played players onside too often. With the two normal defenders I find Strikers just run past them or make easy runs off the ball past them. I find they are second to the ball often too. I have tried this with multiple good teams to see if it works. Honestly, the Defending on this game totally loses me and I struggle to give the instructions I want or the players don't do what is asked.

If you play deep, I find teams push up easier and score more long range efforts or open you up just as easy, I don't know how.

So, my reason for the post, what do you use for defending instructions? How do you defend on FM2012. All help would be very much appreciated!

[Falahk]

what team are you playing and what kind of formation have you been using?

[stemlfc]

If you play a deep defensive line, it's best to best a DMC to cover the space. If you have a high line, it's best to have them stay in line and try and play the offiside trap. A high line will often need a sweeper keep but there aren't too many on the game that I'd have complete confidence in.

I tend to have a cover/stopper combination with a DMC. The stopper pushes up with the DMC and the covering defender (needs pace) will mop up.

23 games in, 11 goals conceded. Works every time for me.

[dolph11]

I'm in my 2nd season with Wolves. I have Roger Johnson and Mateo Musacchio as my defenders. Using 4-3-3 (1 DMc, 2 CMs, 2 wingers and 1 striker), so essentially, a 4-1-2-2-1. PLd 37 Conceded 58. Not good enough for me.

I tend to have a cover/stopper combination with a DMC. The stopper pushes up with the DMC and the covering defender (needs pace) will mop up.

Do you play a high line with offside trap with this? Also, do you change their individual closing down settings?

[stemlfc]

I'm in my 2nd season with Wolves. I have Roger Johnson and Mateo Musacchio as my defenders. Using 4-3-3 (1 DMc, 2 CMs, 2 wingers and 1 striker), so essentially, a 4-1-2-2-1. PLd 37 Conceded 58. Not good enough for me.

I tend to have a cover/stopper combination with a DMC. The stopper pushes up with the DMC and the covering defender (needs pace) will mop up.

Do you play a high line with offside trap with this? Also, do you change their individual closing down settings?

No, no offside trap. I don't have that unless I have a high line. My line is medium.

[furiousuk]

Generally the 41221/433 you're using or the 4231 variations don't work unless you have a decent back 4, and, being Wolves, they probably aren't quite good enough to be really tight. What's your marking strategy?

At the moment your 'strong shape' is the triangle produced by DM,CB,CB which 'funnels' attacks out wide, if your stopper is pushing too far forward you risk inverting that triangle which actually funnels attacks straight towards your goal, this is probably why you are having the inverse problem that your cover guy is playing everyone onside. This formation is very strong in deep central areas so you want to keep it as strong as possible in there. It's weaker out wide where your full-backs always run the risk of being overloaded - particularly if your MC on the that side or DMC don't move to help them out. OI's will help, you can show poor crossers out wide where they'll have to cross into a congested area or show them inside where they'll be running in a packed area. Playmaking wingers who drop deep and make passes from in-front of your FB's are probably the most dangerous against this formation but hopefully your MC's have enough defensive ability to realise this (your AMR/AML might also track back depending on their attributes/instructions).

Against the big boys I'd make sure I play deep, play narrow, tackle hard and hit on the counter. The DM in between the lines lets you play deep, playing narrow further emphasises the central strength whilst tackling hard is a great leveller when you're the underdog (also, try time wasting to earn a few cheap free kicks). Don't be afraid to use the counter or defend strategies or contain late in the game.

[dolph11]

I hear what you say furious, but I have tried other systems and they just don't work either! I mean, 4 at the back, I usually play zonal-man marking, both CD's on a defend duty. Now, I agree, with Wolves these aren't gonna be the best, but, Mateo Musacchio and Roger Johnson aren't too bad and Eyong Enoh in the DMC (defend) role. I've seen ppl be more successful with worse defences than mine. I have to say, sometimes the defending is awful! Ruins the whole game for me. Yes, I understand Torres is quality, but players like him demolish me. I played Swansea in the FA cup finall, lost 3-0, terrible defending again! Horrible!

[Fabian Jonsson]

Without knowing more about your overall tactical formation I can obviously not give you any concrete advice, but in general I think that trouble in defence usually stems from one of two things:

1 - the midfielders/fullbacks are not putting enough preassure on the ball (or goes in too aggressively so that the opponents can easily go past the pressure), which exposes your d-line

2 - your players loose the ball in sensitive spots in offense, leaving you voulnerable to counter attacks

In short: It's rarely the d-line alone that's the problem (for me anyways), rather that the overall shape and mentality of your team allows your opponents to get too much time to find their strikers in good positions.

I usually have the opposite problem - a really solid defense but unimpressive offense.

To try to be more specific, if you play with a high d-line you need to be aggressive in your closing down, so that the opposition doesn't have time to find a through-ball. Watch a few conceeded goals to see if this is the case. If yes, try to raise closing down, or lower d-line. If you play with a low d-line the opposite is true: you want your midfielders to stand off a bit, otherwise there will be an ocean of space in front of your defenders.

Hope this helps.

[furiousuk]

You need to keep going with it, I can assure you that you can get a very solid defence in FM.

Firstly, it's worth noting the relevant skills of your defenders. If they are hard working and good at marking & concentration then man-marking might be a good idea, whereas anticipation, teamwork, positioning and concentration is good for zonal markers. It' worth sticking to one system predominantly although mixed systems can also be useful.

The most dangerous area of the pitch is the area in front of your keeper, so central and deep (roughly the triangular shape in the screenshot). This system is so strong because it packs that area with bodies. A 4231 or a 442 doesn't do this whilst a 442 deep (with 2xDMC) packs the area but can leave diagonal passing lines due to the 2 banks of players. This system also cuts down on passing lines in this area. If you play with 2 pragmatic MC's who don't push forward then it's packs the area even more.

A zonal system would be good as it keeps the area neat and tidy and forces the opposition to play through a well-organised defence with cute passing and incredible movement - i.e. not easy. A man-marking system would also work as the opposition won't generally pack that area with 5+ players which means you'll generally pick up every threat and often have a man spare, again, the opposition would have to lose their marker with incredible movement or skill and play an exceptional pass (or several), again, not easy. The formation is weaker out wide, particularly in front of the FB's and a cross from this area (or from the byline) is potentially difficult. Luckily you have plenty of bodies to try and deal with a cross but having a couple of units at CB is particularly pertinent as they don't need to do much else to be a success in this system.

I use a different system which I'll describe as an example. My central 5 players (5,6,4,8,10) are all tight man-markers whilst the floating 5 (2,3,11,7,9) are zonal markers (not tight or loose). My theory is that the central 5 do the majority of the work, as I said earlier, it's rare that they will have 5 opposition players to mark in that central box area which often means the DM is free to cover. If he has a player to mark then it'll usually be an opposing AM who isn't usually a player you'd want to leave free. My CB's and DM are all on a defensive duty and form a nice triangle behind the other players when I've got the ball which serves as a protection against counter-attack - it funnels the play to the flanks where my quick, hard-working FB's can get back in time (hopefully) to snaffle any dangerous situation. The floating 5 on zonal mean they will pick up players when they move into their zone but will remain in position that allows my counter attack to be more effective (despite some views, AMR & AML WILL track back if they have the right attributes and instructions to do so and mine do too - sometimes -, although I don't particularly want them to).

Another mixed system might be to keep CB's and DM on zonal to keep the nice triangular shape whilst MC's and FB's go on man-marking which should 'pull' them towards the zonal area as the opposition attack that area.

I often pull the AMR/AML back to MR/ML to kill off a game and stick the back four and midfield four on zonal whilst DM and FC stay on man. The idea here is to create 2 banks of four disciplined players whilst the DM is the destroyer who maims anyone daring enough to step between the lines.

As with any system the ideas I've presented aren't without their drawbacks as well as their strengths but it's definitely possible to defend well on this game. Part of it requires paying attention to the opposition. A 4312 or a 41212 packs the central area high up the pitch which means that my five central core have their hands full all game so I might have to adapt in order to combat specific opposition strengths. My first move is to pick the right personnel for the job (perhaps defensive MCs, or defensive FBs, or quick CB's, or mentally-strong DM etc). My next move is to pay special attention to OI's as they can be a vital ally. If all that doesn't work then it's time to hold on to your seat and make sure you give your guys the best opportunity to score goals.

[dolph11]

I really appreciate the detailed response and hopefully it does help, I have to say though, whatever I use, the AI finds the weakness in my defence.