Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Rashidi]

9 hours ago, kevaggel said:

I was going through the stats and i have a question about this picture

What happened to the rest of 38 attempts since these are not made by feet, head or direct set-piece ?

It would be worth it to upload the pkm and show the whole image for that, cos its hard to tell. SI will have a debug tool that they can use to check. It could be entirely possible that some shots were not counter so I would raise a bug report. Pretty hard for me to say one way or the other.

[Elitee]

Hi, just a quick question for @Rashidiif I may. 

How come you never use a Stopper or Cover or both when doing your tactics?

[kevaggel]

7 hours ago, Rashidi said:

It would be worth it to upload the pkm and show the whole image for that, ...

This isn't from a single match, that screen popped-up in the news showing shot attempts for the last 5 matches.

No idea how to find it again so i can post the whole screen.

[J.T]

Will an AP Attack (CM) PI Get further forward and and IW Support (AMR) get in the way of each other? 

[kevaggel]

@Rashidi here it came up again in the news:

This time 41 attempts are missing.

edit: after studying the above picture i came to the conclusion that shots from inside the 6-yard box have almost no chance to go in.

I activated the team instruction "shoot on sight" and now i am watching more goals and a bit more enjoyable football instead of all these blocked shots, i know but it sounds stupid but it's a game and not football.

Edited December 22, 2020 by kevaggel

[energumene]

Il y a 18 heures, J.T a dit :

Will an AP Attack (CM) PI Get further forward and and IW Support (AMR) get in the way of each other? 

Not sure, I mean not necessarily. AP - A will take more risks with the ball, so more direct passing (potentially for your IW). And I think the Get Further Forward PI will make him more running late in the opposition box. Maybe I'm wrong.

Bear in mind that Team Mentality also affects those behaviours. The higher the mentality, the riskier the passing/dribbling/shooting. Especially with an Attack duty. And of course, the other TIs as well.

[lanewalk]

I'm managing Bayern in FM21 Touch. I'm really still beginner at tactics so following the advice of Rashidi and trying out some of the presets as well as his Bayern Vertical Tiki Taka tactic that he posted recently. One thing I noticed, the tactics recommended by the Assistant with the thumbs up changes from time to time. I had Wing Play suggested previously but not now, Tiki-Taka and Control Possession are recommended now when they weren't before. Why would this change while I've still got the same players? There's always three suggested options, just not the same three.

Edited December 24, 2020 by lanewalk

[Cassius]

I keep reading that it is not advisable to fulfill all the training sessions, often advising 2 sessions max per day of trainning. Why is that ? 
Is this to prevent injuries ? Or would that impact my players attribute development negatively ? or Both ?
If the club as state of the art training facilities and a flock a efficient/competent coach and physio, would it still make sense to keep the training "light" (2 sessions per day) ?
 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Cassius said:

I keep reading that it is not advisable to fulfill all the training sessions, often advising 2 sessions max per day of trainning. Why is that ? 

I don't know where you've read it, but I personally almost always use all 3 sessions. However, I also look to make sure that the overall amount of training on a given day is not excessive. Therefore, it is more important what types of sessions you put together than how many of them you use. 

And of course, when I have a busy match schedule, most sessions are of a lighter type (basically only match-preparation ones, such as attacking movement, defensive shape, match tactics or preview, teamwork and the like). 

[Zemahh]

2 hours ago, Cassius said:

I keep reading that it is not advisable to fulfill all the training sessions, often advising 2 sessions max per day of trainning. Why is that ?

Depends on your schedule, really. If you're going to schedule evening sessions, you need to make sure your training doesn't become too intense (injuries, fatigue). For example, Attacking Movement, Defensive Movement and Teamwork sessions in one day would be much lighter than three Physical sessions.

As long as you keep the intensity reasonable, evening sessions are okay.

[bahmet]

What is the best training session for the "Offside Trap" instruction?

[bahmet]

If I am 1 coach in the team and go on vacation between matches, then will the players train and develop?

[frukox]

On 22/12/2020 at 20:50, J.T said:

Will an AP Attack (CM) PI Get further forward and and IW Support (AMR) get in the way of each other? 

I used it. I can easily they support each other pretty well especially with an IWB or FB kind of support behind them.

Edited December 24, 2020 by frukox

[asteris_]

How can the CAM be better utilized in a 4231 gegenpress formation with two inverted wingers? Shadow Striker or Attacking Midfielder on attack?

Edited December 25, 2020 by asteris_

[Cal585]

On 22/12/2020 at 01:45, frukox said:

Increase DL. Min Standard and have a proactive defensive unit filled with bravery and determination instead of a group of bystanders.

DL is mostly how high your defensive unit pushes up in support when you have the ball and where they begin their defence when you lose the ball. Not how far your line drops, so don't think it'd affect long shots directly.

Aggression I think would also be the most useful attribute here (along with bravery so they actually challenge), as it will impact how eager your players are to close down.

[frukox]

1 hour ago, Cal585 said:

DL is mostly how high your defensive unit pushes up in support when you have the ball and where they begin their defence when you lose the ball. Not how far your line drops, so don't think it'd affect long shots directly.

Aggression I think would also be the most useful attribute here (along with bravery so they actually challenge), as it will impact how eager your players are to close down.

No, where they begin to press is defined by your LOE affected by what you set and your mentality not your DL. The DL and LOE as well as your pressing urgency define your hot zone where you are trying to win the ball. So with a low DL I expect my opponent will come down the flanks(get ready for crosses) or try to shoot from range. I rarely concede worldies because I rarely defend in a low block and I know I need very good at least eight players to make it work. If I don't have the personnel, I'd just go for Standard DL+Standard LOE or if I need to protect my vertical channels better, then I set it to Low or Much Lower LOE with an aggressive defending style. Anyway, aggression determines how hard your players like to get stuck in. So a group of players with bravery, determination(very important for a winning squad) and aggression will be a good starting point for any side aiming to defend in an aggressive style.

[Cal585]

Yeah, the DL will have some impact on your LoE but the LoE itself, your pressing intensity and roles will have much more of an impact on preventing long shots than the DL 

[frukox]

3 hours ago, Cal585 said:

Yeah, the DL will have some impact on your LoE but the LoE itself, your pressing intensity and roles will have much more of an impact on preventing long shots than the DL 

I don't agree with that. The right DL and LOE with the right distribution of duties for the right players in addition to other needed instructions for your defensive style will definitely impact the frequency of conceded long shots. For example, standard DL+lower LOE+narrow defending width, more/extreme urgent pressing+get stuck in on balanced mentality is a good defensive style for not conceding too many long shots.

[Chris2509]

Are you more likely to provoke yellow cards when using "run at the defence" or instructing certain players to dribble more?

[CaptCanuck]

1 hour ago, Chris2509 said:

Are you more likely to provoke yellow cards when using "run at the defence" or instructing certain players to dribble more?

'Certain players' is the important bit. They need to be players that attack and get inside - if you want dribbling to equate with being fouled.

Take a look at your league stats - Dribbles/90 minutes & Fouled - and you can see that. Players that stay outside or operate in midfield mainly, won't get fouled remotely as much as players like Raheem Sterling.

[Chris2509]

3 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said:

'Certain players' is the important bit. They need to be players that attack and get inside - if you want dribbling to equate with being fouled.

Take a look at your league stats - Dribbles/90 minutes & Fouled - and you can see that. Players that stay outside or operate in midfield mainly, won't get fouled remotely as much as players like Raheem Sterling.

 

Thanks! So for example, turning an IF-S into IF-A is, in theory, more likely to provoke a second yellow card from the full back on his side?

[CaptCanuck]

6 minutes ago, Chris2509 said:

 

Thanks! So for example, turning an IF-S into IF-A is, in theory, more likely to provoke a second yellow card from the full back on his side?

Ah OK gotcha, as a strategy to really put pressure on a player already on a yellow.

Take your IF-S, click dribble more for PIs, and then use the TIs to increase the play down that side. Heck change him from an IF to an advanced playmaker and see if that get's him the ball more

TBH, will that really work as such IDK hopefully someone else can chime in with something more definitive.

[Chris2509]

13 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said:

Ah OK gotcha, as a strategy to really put pressure on a player already on a yellow.

Take your IF-S, click dribble more for PIs, and then use the TIs to increase the play down that side. Heck change him from an IF to an advanced playmaker and see if that get's him the ball more

TBH, will that really work as such IDK hopefully someone else can chime in with something more definitive.

 

Sounds good, that's what I was thinking! Not expecting it to produce wonders, but I do have pretty versatile WB's and IF's, so switching up their duties or PI's might be worth a shot on such occasions

Edited December 27, 2020 by Chris2509

[Cal585]

20 hours ago, frukox said:

I don't agree with that. The right DL and LOE with the right distribution of duties for the right players in addition to other needed instructions for your defensive style will definitely impact the frequency of conceded long shots. For example, standard DL+lower LOE+narrow defending width, more/extreme urgent pressing+get stuck in on balanced mentality is a good defensive style for not conceding too many long shots.

I'm not sure that'd be much different in terms of conceding long shots than a higher DL+standard LoE+narrow width+more urgent pressing. Taking your example of instructions and just changing the DL I wouldn't expect to see much of a direct change to long shots. Maybe lower or much lower DL because it'd drag the LoE down but that can be compensated for by central holding roles who are prepared to close down around the box whether through TI (pressing/get stuck in) or PI or the type of role. Sure you'd indirectly see it because it'd mess up your compactness (I always try and keep DL/LoE similar to each other) and you'd have teams playing through or over your defensive structure and pulling your defence all over the place creating all sorts of chances including long shots.

So that's why I'd say your LoE and having players in position to press is more important assuming you have your compactness under control (in which case you have bigger problems than long shots).

Though if I'm missing something about how the game works I'm quite happy to learn and take it on board. That's just been my experience and understanding 

[frukox]

25 minutes ago, Cal585 said:

I'm not sure that'd be much different in terms of conceding long shots than a higher DL+standard LoE+narrow width+more urgent pressing. Taking your example of instructions and just changing the DL I wouldn't expect to see much of a direct change to long shots. Maybe lower or much lower DL because it'd drag the LoE down but that can be compensated for by central holding roles who are prepared to close down around the box whether through TI (pressing/get stuck in) or PI or the type of role. Sure you'd indirectly see it because it'd mess up your compactness (I always try and keep DL/LoE similar to each other) and you'd have teams playing through or over your defensive structure and pulling your defence all over the place creating all sorts of chances including long shots.

So that's why I'd say your LoE and having players in position to press is more important assuming you have your compactness under control (in which case you have bigger problems than long shots).

Though if I'm missing something about how the game works I'm quite happy to learn and take it on board. That's just been my experience and understanding 

Your example is good, too. However, you can increase your LOE over your DL thus decreasing compactness whenever you see an opposition team with only one attacking outlet to keep the pressure on them. We are on the same page given you are in favour of some degree of compactness in defence for preventing long shots. Cheers, mate:)

[TioPatinhax]

SOrry if this has been asked before, but I am unable to load my tactics when signing with a new club, they dont show up in the Load menu in the tactics part. I know the tactics are in the right folder (tactics) so what am I doing wrong?

 

thank you

[tamertunatt]

Is it logical when I use TM(A)(Player instruction off the ball,roam the position) and SS(A) together for long ball style? 

[Novem9]

In this settings my team will be use more urgent pressing in red area isn't?

What will happen in yellow area? It will be more urgent too or it will be 'default' ?

Edited December 28, 2020 by Novem9

[Experienced Defender]

3 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

In this settings my team will be use more urgent pressing in red area isn't?

What will happen in yellow area? It will be more urgent too or it will be 'default' ?

Will be more urgent in both areas. 

[sgevolker]

Hi,

what can I do that my defenders play better together? I concern a lot of goals over the middle and I ask myself why are they not

have a better partnership? 

 

Thanks in advance

Volker

Edited December 29, 2020 by Experienced Defender

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, sgevolker said:

Hi,

what can I do that my defenders play better together? I concern a lot of goals over the middle and I ask myself why are they not

have a better partnership? 

 

Thanks in advance

Volker

You can - and should - start a separate thread topic, because this Quickfire one is not meant for questions like yours. Please do so and you'll get proper advice there 

[sgevolker]

vor 26 Minuten schrieb Experienced Defender:

You can - and should - start a separate thread topic, because this Quickfire one is not meant for questions like yours. Please do so and you'll get proper advice there 

Sorry, I thought that this is a question related to tactics and fit's to this tread. Honestly I don't understand why not? 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, sgevolker said:

Sorry, I thought that this is a question related to tactics and fit's to this tread. Honestly I don't understand why not? 

It is related to tactics, but is not simple to answer. That's why it requires a separate thread.

[mernild]

Who gets the TI I use?
If I use Tackle Harder - does everyone tackle harder?
If I use Be More Expressive - then who roams from position?
Same with run at defence and so on.

Why woudn't you always just choose by yourself who roams and who tackles harder or dribbles more?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, mernild said:

Who gets the TI I use?
If I use Tackle Harder - does everyone tackle harder?

Yes. Actually, the TI is called "Get stuck in". Tackle harder is its PI counterpart. 

 

1 hour ago, mernild said:

If I use Be More Expressive - then who roams from position?

Primarily more advanced and attack-minded players/roles, but the instruction essentially encourages more freedom of movement and creativity in the opposition half and especially the final third. So it basically gives your players more freedom when your team has the ball in the opposition half. 

 

1 hour ago, mernild said:

Same with run at defence 

Affects all players except those who have the "Dribble less" PI (either hard-coded or manually added). But (like the BME) it's effect is more pronounced in the opposition half. 

 

1 hour ago, mernild said:

Why woudn't you always just choose by yourself who roams and who tackles harder or dribbles more?

Of course you can choose all that on an individual basis via related player instructions. 

[mernild]

@Experienced DefenderThanks a lot. That's what I thought. Can't think of a time where I would use the TI's then - except for laziness.

Another quickfire question for you. Would it make more sense to have the advanced forward on the left or right in this setup.

                     DLF(s)              -             AF

W(a) -  CM(s) (get further forward) - CM(s/d) (hold position) - WM(s)

FB(s)             - CD                - CD  -                   FB(a)

 

[Experienced Defender]

@mernild I cannot give you an answer to your question about the AF here, because it requires deeper analysis of the tactic and is therefore not suited for this quickfire thread. Instead, I would highly recommend that you start your own separate thread and ask again there 

[malemute kid]

1) Are wide midfielders hardcoded to defend more than inverted wingers/inside forwards?

2) Will CWBs underlap if there is a wide player occupying space ahead of them? 

[Experienced Defender]

5 hours ago, malemute kid said:

Are wide midfielders hardcoded to defend more than inverted wingers/inside forwards?

Yes. 

 

5 hours ago, malemute kid said:

Will CWBs underlap if there is a wide player occupying space ahead of them? 

Unlike overlaps, underlaps do not primarily affect fullbacks and/or wing-backs in terms of underlapping runs. 

[Novem9]

I play 4231 and use OI for opposite playmakers to block them. Do I need to disable tight marking as TI for better OI effect? (players could focus for PM more or this is no influence?)

[mikcheck]

Hi,

Do you think it's fine to defend narrower and attack wider?

[DeepThought]

5 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Hi,

Do you think it's fine to defend narrower and attack wider?

I can't see a reason why it couldn't potentially work. But it depends on how it fits into the rest of the tactic. 

[safcrhys]

What sort of system would a BWM suit?

[Zemahh]

7 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Do you think it's fine to defend narrower and attack wider?

I don't know how the rest of your tactic looks (it's primarily your setup of Roles and Duties that determines your actual attacking shape), but those two instructions are indeed perfectly compatible.

With narrow defending, you're essentially asking your team to pack the middle and, in turn, allow opposition to have possession down the wings, which can lure their FBs deep into your half. That's when you can try countering them with attacking their wide areas.

1 hour ago, safcrhys said:

What sort of system would a BWM suit?

A high-pressing one, or one where he's expected to cover large areas of the pitch (they're willing to leave their designated area to go close opposition down). His creative freedom should be pretty low, so he won't be too adventurous during attacking phase, but he will defend aggressively and lunge into tackles often.

[IrishRovers]

According to the in-game panel (the touchline tablet), almost every AI manager in almost every shape or formation plays at least one mezzala. This bothers me for several reasons - firstly, there can't be that many mezzalae in the English lower leagues, or that many managers who want to play with them; secondly, conventional wisdom suggests that playing such an aggressive role as a mezzala in a 442 or a 4231 is a bad idea, but they all seem to be doing it. Is this a problem with the tablet, like, are my probably analysts mistaken? 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Experienced Defender
inappropriate word

[Viking]

Surey there must be a way to tell my idiot players to pass the ball more direct, but still prioritize there's actually someone to pass the ball to, insted of just hauling the ball away at random as fast as possible? Most likley into a group of oposition players.

[Carney48]

Can anyone direct me to any good threads on what to do when you're team is MASSIVELY struggling. Got promoted too soon and currently rock bottom and cant buy a win.

[DeepThought]

2 hours ago, Viking said:

Surey there must be a way to tell my idiot players to pass the ball more direct, but still prioritize there's actually someone to pass the ball to, insted of just hauling the ball away at random as fast as possible? Most likley into a group of oposition players.

I might be wrong, but I think this is the kind of question that requires you to share your tactic and that normally get directed to start a thread of their own.

[Sharkn20]

2 hours ago, Carney48 said:

Can anyone direct me to any good threads on what to do when you're team is MASSIVELY struggling. Got promoted too soon and currently rock bottom and cant buy a win.

Focus in D#, counter attacks and set pieces, they can buy you more than one W.

[eXistenZ]

I'm only rediscovering this forum after a 10y hiatus on FM (mostly hanging out in the Off topic section), but the epic freebie made me buy fm21. Most things regarding scouting, staff etc feel familiar but tactics I struggle with, mostly because the concept of roles is a bit alien to me.  I'm gonna check the pairs and combinations guide asap, but a few questions. Im on my first save after a testgame (that went horribly wrong), just did the setup and preseason

 

1) is this the best place to get tactical feedback or do people prefer a new topic per tactic?

2) whats the view on set pieces? I feel a bit cheesy sometimes, especially with the long throws which seem kinda broken.

3) Anyone who can summarize what each preset tactic need in a team? I'm the person who likes to build a tactic for a team I've been given/chosen, rather than shoehorning a team into a preference. I know passing and vision for tiki taka, but the difference in requirements between fluid and direct counter attack is harder, or route 1...