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What is the Best Tactic in FM2012

ViperBlade

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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I am doing a manned test ie im not going on holidays as i believe this tell you nothing about tactic and is a total waste of time.

The test will be done on 12.04

I'll will test each tactic with the same save game.

I will be using Blackburn rovers lower middle premier league side. Media Prediction 11th

I will be testing for 19 premier league games.

I will use OI, shouts, pitch size, match prep etc etc that the tactic developer recommends.

I will make no transfers in or out.

Test 1 - Brobs17 FM12 Flawless Tactic 12.1 - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/284778-Brobs17-FM12-Flawless-Tactic-12.1

Played - 19

Won - 10

Drawn - 4

Lost - 5

Goals For - 39

Goals Against - 26

Goal Diff - +13

Points - 34

CCCs For - 47

CCCs Against - 34

The results. see links below

getfile.php?id=132916&a=5ccdae350f5f22fe362efa9479466590&t=4ebc67ed&o=E891ED15FB0C7D236350AEAC3EE32CFEE18DBA12AE142D367C51C1EA7EA8309B9C91EC09FB0C&n=brobs_League.jpg&i=1

http://imageupload.org/?d=B49A7F891

http://imageupload.org/?d=F82CA5501

http://imageupload.org/?d=47446BD91

http://imageupload.org/?d=6BF5F88C1

http://imageupload.org/?d=391445321

4th after Half a premier league season I think this could be difficult to beat but lets see how mr houghs tactic does next. The team did not get to full comfort level with this tactic until my 18th premier league game.

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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Test 2 - Mr Hough Tactic Review. - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/283644-Mr-Hough-s-Swarm-Tactic-FM2012

Played - 19

Won - 13

Drawn - 1

Lost - 5

Goals For - 47

Goals Against - 25

Goal Diff - +22

Points - 40

CCCs For - 53

CCCs Against - 34

The results. see links below

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6336715971/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6337471296/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6336715753/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6337471056/in/photostream/lightbox/

2nd after Half a premier league season. Very Impressive. The team got to full comfort level with this tactic after 15 premier league game.

I left this formation as is i.e 2 MC's If you read Mr Houghs Thread you'll understand.

A few things I noticed about this formation.

- This formation really works your players hard physically. You will notice that you often fave a few players in the 60s% condition after 65min or so.

Therefore you do tend to get a few more injuries so a fairly big squad is important..

Also you can have some very random results 5-7 v middlesbrough, 6-2 v chelsea. As your team settle into the formation this seems to calm down somewhat.

Still a very high scoring formation with goals galore at both ends.

Next onto zero Sea.

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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Test 3 - Zero Sea V4 - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/278366-FM2012-Zero-Sea%E2%80%98s-Wonderland-Make-You-Become-Alice-And-Enjoy-The-Wonderland

Played - 19

Won - 7

Drawn - 6

Lost - 6

Goals For - 36

Goals Against - 32

Goal Diff - +4

Points - 27

CCCs For - 29

CCCs Against - 33

The results. see links below

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6341184220/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6340435237/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6340435089/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6341183424/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6341183236/in/photostream/lightbox/

Just not enough ccc's created compared to the previous tactics tested. this tactic also uses a near post corner and without iit I think you would be in real trouble.

Test 4 - Vodu Tactic - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/286479-4-4-2-on-12.04-Not-mine!-vodu-caos

Played - 19

Won - 10

Drawn - 2

Lost - 7

Goals For - 45

Goals Against - 27

Goal Diff - +18

Points - 32

CCCs For - 45

CCCs Against - 40

The results. see links below

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6342130788/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6342120870/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6342120354/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6342119628/in/photostream/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/69686256@N05/6342115994/in/photostream/lightbox/

This formation does not perform very well against the big six ie spurs, manu, man city, arsenal, liverpool, chelsea.

I had only one win against these teams but it is quite consistent against teams you should win against.

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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Will be interesting to see your results. Have you signed any players or is it the standard Blackburn team? The only problems I can see cropping up is if you dont have the reccomended players for a certain tactic but do for another.

Hi No signings. Link to player stats after test - http://imageupload.org/?d=391445321

There was a problem at right back as you can see from the goal analysis below. Maybe if blackburn were stronger here it could produce

a few more wins - http://imageupload.org/?d=47446BD91

Blackburns squad is fairly balanced one of the reasons why I picked them for the brobs tactic I put vukcevic in the SCL position trained him to be an SC he was fully trained by the end of the test. I did the same for formica as an mc. Formica and vukcevic are very adaptable position wise which makes blackburn a good side to test with.

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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As a tactic if only fully developed when all bars are full, why not at the start of the game, use a save game editor to get all the bar at 100%, and then play 19 games. This would be truer fairer?
The Idea of this test is to test tactics from the get go I do think that brobs tactic will be one of the slowest tactics for a team to get used to I had 8 friendlies I think there was only one win in this period. People want success fast I dont think a lot of people will stick with a tactic for half a season if it is not working for them.

Also as you can see from the results of the brobs test 4th with blackburn after 19 games. You can take from that that this is a very very strong formation.

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rich_barnes

rich_barnes

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Completely voids your "Test" of someone elses tactic.. Therefore unless thats changed I ask that you dont include mine (Sexy Football)

Thats true, if you are using the corner exploit then a tactic that wins lots of corners is going to be the dogs bollocks especially with Samba nodding them in.

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gregUK

gregUK

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Thats true, if you are using the corner exploit then a tactic that wins lots of corners is going to be the dogs bollocks especially with Samba nodding them in.

This. Should be a reflection of the tactics as posted, not with a huge goal boost from the corner exploit. A shame as this thread could have been very informative :(

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FuSS

FuSS

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every year somebody starts one of these threads and every year it's generally agreed that it's pointless.

Here's a snapshot of why

1) Chance - lose one match by chance and it will affect your next 3 or 4 games, something such tests don't cater for. Not to mention as in RL, chance plays a huge patch in each match, each injury, form, buys, etc...

2) Players - certain teams will have better players for a particular tactic, Tottenham for example do well with tactics with play makers and target-men, does that make the tactic better? NO, it's just better suited to the chosen team.

3) Opposition - the opposition you play may hit form on one game and may not in another, so you might get an easy ride with one tactic and it's actually nothing to do with the tactic.

4) Management style - your style will work better with certain tactics, certain types of players, and certain teams - thus again, nothing to do with the tactic, but has relevance to the outcome.

5) Corner Exploit - easily adds 20+ goals to a season, more importantly it can win a match or drive a match forward that would otherwise be lost.

5) I could go on in depth for hours...but just do a damn search and you'll see that this thread is pointless there's loads of tests every year and they are always pointless and badly thought out. Also this shouldn't be in the sharing section!

To summarise - you may find evidence to support which tactic best suits the particular combination of Blackburn, Blackburn's players, Blackburn's staff, your management style, a huge helping a chance, a huge dollop of opposition teams form, signings and staff changes - but you wont find anything useful or informative.

To give this any kind of credit at all you would need to:

-Do a minimum of 10 new seasons with each of the tactics (so 10 new games with Brobs for example),

-Make sure all the fixtures and friendly were the same

-You'd have to make sure all the other teams didn't buy or sell any staff or players or change managers

-You'd also have to make sure the opposition didn't change tactics

-You'd need to get rid of all injuries and chance de/motivational occasions

-You'd need to deliver the exact same OI's and exact same team talk in every match

Then you'll start to see some correlations that could be plotted with something like an unrelated t test to examine the distribution and remove any outlying results and thus provide you with a decent enough statistic basis from which to draw a hypothesis about each tactics effectiveness.....but even then it would only be with Blackburn's particular setup!

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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Got to say its about time we all realized that Brobs17 has overtaken Hough as the greatest tactic maker for FM, his tactics have proven to been genius - anyone who says otherwise is nonsense
Well I have only went a few games with mr hough so far in terms of friendlies so we'll see should be finished at some point over the weekend. I have to say though I was very surprised with how well the brobs tactic went. 4th with blackburn and no signings is very impressive.

With the full backs being so exposed in the mr hough tactic it may be very difficult for poor old salgado to cope but we'll see.

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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every year somebody starts one of these threads and every year it's generally agreed that it's pointless.

Here's a snapshot of why

1) Chance - lose one match by chance and it will affect your next 3 or 4 games, something such tests don't cater for. Not to mention as in RL, chance plays a huge patch in each match, each injury, form, buys, etc...

2) Players - certain teams will have better players for a particular tactic, Tottenham for example do well with tactics with play makers and target-men, does that make the tactic better? NO, it's just better suited to the chosen team.

3) Opposition - the opposition you play may hit form on one game and may not in another, so you might get an easy ride with one tactic and it's actually nothing to do with the tactic.

4) Management style - your style will work better with certain tactics, certain types of players, and certain teams - thus again, nothing to do with the tactic, but has relevance to the outcome.

5) Corner Exploit - easily adds 20+ goals to a season, more importantly it can win a match or drive a match forward that would otherwise be lost.

5) I could go on in depth for hours...but just do a damn search and you'll see that this thread is pointless there's loads of tests every year and they are always pointless and badly thought out. Also this shouldn't be in the sharing section!

To summarise - you may find evidence to support which tactic best suits the particular combination of Blackburn, Blackburn's players, Blackburn's staff, your management style, a huge helping a chance, a huge dollop of opposition teams form, signings and staff changes - but you wont find anything useful or informative.

To give this any kind of credit at all you would need to:

-Do a minimum of 10 new seasons with each of the tactics (so 10 new games with Brobs for example),

-Make sure all the fixtures and friendly were the same

-You'd have to make sure all the other teams didn't buy or sell any staff or players or change managers

-You'd also have to make sure the opposition didn't change tactics

-You'd need to get rid of all injuries and chance de/motivational occasions

-You'd need to deliver the exact same OI's and exact same team talk in every match

Then you'll start to see some correlations that could be plotted with something like an unrelated t test to examine the distribution and remove any outlying results and thus provide you with a decent enough statistic basis from which to draw a hypothesis about each tactics effectiveness.....but even then it would only be with Blackburn's particular setup!

You are saying that it is almost impossible to tell if one tactic is better than another by that logic and I do not think this is true.

As I said you can see the short falls of any tactic test.

I have set out the parameters in the opening post quite clearly so every know the test limitations.

There is no point going much further than the first 19 games as cups come into play etc fixtures get moved around and so on.

But this will at least give people an idea of performance of each tactic.

I personally have found these threads very very useful over the years, and particularly when they are manned tests rather than holidays.

I am going to continue none the less as I do feel a lot of people find these tests useful.

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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This. Should be a reflection of the tactics as posted, not with a huge goal boost from the corner exploit. A shame as this thread could have been very informative :(

Im replying to greg here but it has been mentioned a few time through the post.

the logic behind using this corner set up is the following.

I have noticed that a lot of formations have a near post set up in the similar to the one mention above.

We all our aware that this is the post successful set up from a corner.

Therefore by using the same corner set up I remove this variable from the test.

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Bob Sardinia

Bob Sardinia

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Im replying to greg here but it has been mentioned a few time through the post.

the logic behind using this corner set up is the following.

I have noticed that a lot of formations have a near post set up in the similar to the one mention above.

We all our aware that this is the post successful set up from a corner.

Therefore by using the same corner set up I remove this variable from the test.

I mean that still doesnt make sense.. If you want to compare tactics then you need to leave all their variables in place. Otherwise this isnt a true representation of how good the tactic really is if it isnt abusing a flaw in the ME.. Any user can implement the corner trick after they download any tactic and know it'll add some goals, but this thread was a chance for tactics to shine without that "Cheap" tactic.

It would honestly make more sense if anything to set all of them to a corner setup that sucks then one that gets cheap goals... The way your doing it, like half your thread has pointed out, voids all the work your putting in. Because a tactic could be absolutely awful compared to another but will still put goals up because of the trick.

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RTHerringbone

RTHerringbone

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Give mine a go if you fancy, but I'd prefer it if you don't fiddle with the set pieces.

The application of the tactics should be pretty clear in the opening post - cheers.

Note that it is two tactics rather than one, as I don't think a single tactic "works".

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/286375-FM2012-Reggie-s-Expect-and-Hope-tactics

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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Okay guys as the Brobs tactics does use a similar corner routine / pretty much exactly the same as i used so no difference there,

I am using the mr hough tactic at the minute and have left his corner routine in place although just to mention he does aim them at the near post but he has a player on near post flick and attack near post samba seems to be scoring more in this set up. only 3 games in so maybe hes just got lucky.

Onwards and upwards.

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rich_barnes

rich_barnes

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Enjoying this thread as its something I usually do myself to see how the different tactics work but I just havn't time to do it this year, so far though I have found Houghs tactic the best and to be honest I feel that most of the others are no better than something you can throw together with the tactics creator in 5 minutes. Daves has something a little extra like his fm10 tactics did. Not sure what as I dont see anything unnormal about the tactic.

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donhughberto

donhughberto

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Like this idea! I noticed teamtalks are so important in some tactics. Concentration levels have to be maintained when stamina weakens. I was making a habit of leading 4 nil and finishing 4-3 and 4-2. I had to rethink way i give halftime talks and the objective was to get a reaction out of at least 8 players at one time.

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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Begining and first match

and,Did you use team talks?

I only have 2 saved versions - after the 19 games and Day 1 before I do anything. I will put up both for you later. might be easier to email them to you PM you email address and I will send on what I have this evening. Team talks would have been assistant.

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ViperBlade

ViperBlade

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Like this idea! I noticed teamtalks are so important in some tactics. Concentration levels have to be maintained when stamina weakens. I was making a habit of leading 4 nil and finishing 4-3 and 4-2. I had to rethink way i give halftime talks and the objective was to get a reaction out of at least 8 players at one time.

I find that if too many of the players are delighted at half time with the teamtalk it can often spell trouble unless your hammering someone of course but if you have held manU to nil nil and then tell you players you are delighted with there performance nine times out of ten you are in for a kicking in the second half.

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donhughberto

donhughberto

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I find that if too many of the players are delighted at half time with the teamtalk it can often spell trouble unless your hammering someone of course but if you have held manU to nil nil and then tell you players you are delighted with there performance nine times out of ten you are in for a kicking in the second half.

For example i had a league cup match against Arsenal 2-2 halftime, i told them i was angry and would you believe i got everyone fired up and win 4-2. The crucial point in this i was AFC Wimbledon (League 2). It was eye opening. Critical = success hehe

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