Position proficiency and position re-training

[brussels]

Hi fellow managers...

I have been looking around for info. about this but I have not found anything relevant.

I'm curious about how important or how much does affect the position proficiency regarding the way a player performs (of course having the right attributes for the new position)

I mean... how much difference there is in actual match performance between a player that is "Accomplished" to "Natural"

I tend to re-train certain players until they achieve natural rating in the new position, but I wonder if maybe this is a waste of training time.

On the other hand, using FMRTE, I have found that position proficiency is scored from 0 to 20 (in-game instead of a number we see ineffective/competent/accomplished/natural).

And also I have noticed that coaches give a better rating to the player as his position proficiency improves from accomplished to natural. (although coach reports/ratings I still don't understand them that well).

Thanks for your feedback!

[dz47]

I’ve seen this asked before and I think the answer from ‘those in the know’ was that it only really affected some of the mental attributes such as positioning, decisions etc. I think the consensus now is pretty much that if the player has the right attributes for the non-natural position, then the performance shouldn’t be effected too much. As for re-training, I think it’s worth training up to natural if the player will solely play in that ‘new’ position. Otherwise, accomplished will be good enough. I remember SFraser was big on re-training players to new positions if they had the stats to pull it off and it would fit with the overall team philosophy Aguero to AML sticks in my mind).

[dribbler]

"but I wonder if maybe this is a waste of training time"...it's commonsense that he'll play better if you train him to natural...try playing your center forward in goal if you don't believe me

[brussels]

hi guys, thanks for your replies

I ran a search for several keywords but I have not been able to find anything, but I'm sure this has probably been discussed as you say.

In the official manual it's mentioned that a player out of position will not play properly, even if he has the right attributes, but I was wondering if there was really any practical difference in performance between accomplished and natural, I guessed someone could have experimented before or something.

[dz47]

Yeah, as I said, it's definitely been discussed a fair bit in the past. I wouldn't read too much into what the manual says as it tends to present an overly simplistic account of the game, particularly the subtler or more complex aspects of it. How I would interpret this is, if you took two players who were identical in every attribute (including both visible and hidden stats, and PPM's), but one was a 'natural' in the given position, and the other was 'accomplished', and you give them the same role and instructions in the same tactic, then you should expect that the natural player would slightly out perform the 'accomplished' player. Obviously, the further the player is away from 'natural' (given the positional ratings go from 1-20 as you noted, and with 15-19 being the range for accomplished I believe), then the more you should expect his performances to be negatively effected. It's also worth remembering that the positional ratings of players tends to be quite subjective (as the various team researchers do this), and also do not take account of the actual role that a player will perform in a set position.

To illustrate this, take someone who is a natural MC for example. Being natural at MC does not tell you a) what roles he is capable of (eg he may be very capable as an advanced playmaker/attack, but useless as a ball winner/defend), or b) how his role fits within the team overall. For this, you need to consider his actual attributes, PPM's, and the role you want him and his team mates to perform. Once you get into this level of analysis, it should become easier to see why the positional rating is not the only thing that should be considered when deciding where to play a player. I would also consider his role in the team; ie do you only want him to be able to perform one job (eg he is your first choice MC and that's all you want him to be able to do), or do you need him to be more versatile (eg is he a squad player who needs to be able to cover a couple of different positions, or do you regularly alter your tactics and need players who are flexible enough to fit into different positions and roles?). So you also need to take squad management into consideration.

So what I would do (and I think most others on here would agree) is take all of these factors into account, AND watch how he plays over the course of a few matches (the more the better). If it looks as though he is 'doing a job' and your team is generally performing how you want/expect, then I would be content with playing an 'accomplished' player. Then, if I felt that this 'new' position would become his main position, I would consider training him up to natural.

anyway, hope that helps a bit.

[brussels]

hey m8,

thx for your input, it's helpful indeed.

As I manage Celta, and I'm just on my 4th season, I'm still far away from having top players, so I kinda have to accept whatever is available.

I played FM10 just a bit and FM11, but always managed Celta, and with FM11 I only reached 7 seasons I think (I made a prev. save for 3-4 seasons). Maybe I should give a try to a bigger side (I'm a Real Madrid faithful) to be able to appreciate a bit better these small details, maybe in lower sides it's difficult to appreciate this.

And yes... the manual is a bit oversimplistic at times, would be nice to have reliable info on how some of the stuff really works.

I think at 18 or 19 the player becomes already natural, if you take a look at the training screen sometimes they continue training although the rating is already natural.

Now... I have another question.... do the positional points take away from CA/PA? Or are they independent? (positional training takes 10% training workload, but I don't know how it actually works).

Thanks!

[Simply... Awesome!]

Now... I have another question.... do the positional points take away from CA/PA? Or are they independent? (positional training takes 10% training workload, but I don't know how it actually works).

Thanks!

yes, it takes from ca/pa.