Explosion in London Underground

[Jason the Yank]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

I rather think it's a shared responsibility. Muslim governments do that, and it's not surprising. But the western powers got their hands in the East many times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We should stop buying their oil, then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Manhattan Project for alternative fuels. Then tell them to get tae fook.

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

See? Daniel understands the point I'm trying to make. Communism. Capitalism. It's all the same. Those in power want to keep it, and prevent others from getting it. Who can honestly say they'd not do the same if they had the opportunity? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are all firmly agreed on that point, of course. At least in capitalism we have better cars, though.

[Venn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

I rather think it's a shared responsibility. Muslim governments do that, and it's not surprising. But the western powers got their hands in the East many times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We should stop buying their oil, then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And use your own amazing reserves in the American mainland instead? Yes, thank you very much. That would even make a lot of sense, economically.

[Jason the Yank]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

bad lands need strong handsd </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look mate, the Dakotas have nothing to do with this?

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

Manhattan Project for alternative fuels. Then tell them to get tae fook. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooooh, how I long for that day.

[nuts]

At least Eastenders still continues....

[Bouncerboy13]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by only one keano (robbie):

omg, just thought of the most important thing to come out of all this. ARE THEY GOING TO TELL THE BB HOUSEMATES ?!?!?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm been stressing about that all day

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

And use your own amazing reserves in the American mainland instead? Yes, thank you very much. That would even make a lot of sense, economically. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I am a stinking colonial. Can we set the record straight, please?

[Synthahols_for_Girls]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Smiley Dan:

I guess in some cases. But it's probably still better to allow a country to work it out for themselves with their own autonomy, own national pride, and work toward some collective bettering of the country, perhaps through ultimately democracy. At least in my view. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shakey / unpopular governments have a history of seaking an external military adventure to divert attention from problems at home.

The west will not be safe untill open and honest democracies are installed in all nations.

We should make it an innitiative to support and train democratic movements in all dictatorships / third word cesspits

[Venn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

See? Daniel understands the point I'm trying to make. Communism. Capitalism. It's all the same. Those in power want to keep it, and prevent others from getting it. Who can honestly say they'd not do the same if they had the opportunity? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We are all firmly agreed on that point, of course. At least in capitalism we have better cars, though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I hope I can get a new computer. That's the way my world works. I'd love communism. If it would work. And I was born again with no ambition whatsoever.

[Daaaaave]

Jason basically going geo-green with me and Tom Friedman?

[Nixchatabox]

I was at Bluewater Shopping Centre (kent) today, they were all on high alert, v nervous looking staff - understandably..

Pedwar Pump just called from work (hes at Charing x station) he works for the railway and heard that a suspect package was found on a bus outside Victoria Station about an hour ago! Thankfully turned out to be nothing thou..

[Jason the Yank]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

Jason basically going geo-green with me and Tom Friedman? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not if Pat Buchanan runs again.

Tom Friedman can get tae fook as well.

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

And I hope I can get a new computer. That's the way my world works. I'd love communism. If it would work. And I was born again with no ambition whatsoever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love capitalism because it contains hope. When I see a kid in a Ferrari, I'm not jealous - maybe one day it'll be me. Durch.

[Jason the Yank]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nixchatabox:

I was at Bluewater Shopping Centre (kent) today, they were all on high alert, v nervous looking staff - understandably..

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why, was there a black store customer?

[Venn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

And use your own amazing reserves in the American mainland instead? Yes, thank you very much. That would even make a lot of sense, economically. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I am a stinking colonial. Can we set the record straight, please? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need, I know what your opinions are. I was just saying all this so that maybe someone would see things my way and realize that the best they can do is just not care anymore. Or rather, they should care, but see things the way they are, or as much as they can. Then they get depressed. It's all really good actually.

[bell]

Im just waiting for the 9/11 style conspiracy theories blaming it on Blair

[Venn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

And I hope I can get a new computer. That's the way my world works. I'd love communism. If it would work. And I was born again with no ambition whatsoever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I love capitalism because it contains hope. When I see a kid in a Ferrari, I'm not jealous - maybe one day it'll be me. Durch. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But maybe that kid is actually Carlos Menem. I don't wanna be him

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

No need, I know what your opinions are. I was just saying all this so that maybe someone would see things my way and realize that the best they can do is just not care anymore. Or rather, they should care, but see things the way they are, or as much as they can. Then they get depressed. It's all really good actually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lager against depression.

[Boltman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

mate, in Top Gun the bad guys were flying Migs. hthh </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well they bad but they ain't stupid. Migs rule! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually they're a bit shit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, but they're best sellers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mate, McDonalds sells the most hamburgers in the world. Doesn't mean they're the best. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you'll find that the ex-East German pilots flying updated NATO Mig 29's more than held their own against all western forces in exercises. Soviet trained Cuban Mig pilots kicked the South Africans asses all over the place during the Angolan civil war. Please elaborate on why you think Mig's are crap.

[Daaaaave]

tom friedman > *

[Venn]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

No need, I know what your opinions are. I was just saying all this so that maybe someone would see things my way and realize that the best they can do is just not care anymore. Or rather, they should care, but see things the way they are, or as much as they can. Then they get depressed. It's all really good actually. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lager against depression. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you can see how capitalism covers everything. If you're happy, you just buy buy buy.

If you realize it's all pointless, and those in power will stay in power and all they do is try and get more power, you get depressed. So, to be happy again, you buy buy buy.

[The Governor]

Some thoughts:

1, This is awful, awful news and I sincerely hope nobody from here is involved.

2. It doesn't matter whether Al-Qaeda is one and the same or a bunch of various organisations. Class them as you want, they are terrorists with the same goal in mind.

3. Londoners and the city as a whole have had raised awareness for this sort of thing for years. It all harked back to the days of the IRA and I feel it has made the city a harder target overall. Sadly those evil f**kers wil always be one step ahead.

4. Vladimir Putin spoke a massive amount of truth when he said that all terrorists should be hunted down - he did not mince his words. True, it was a veiled attempt to back up his war in Chechnya, but he has a point.

5. Where were Spooks? they have never been on the ball since Tom Quinn went doo-lally and Zoe beggared off to Chile.

6. Al-Qaeda or not, anyone with a whiff of suspiciousness about them should now be rounded up and interrogated.

7. Italian people have been very warm in their comisserations here.

[deerokus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

Im just waiting for the 9/11 style conspiracy theories blaming it on Blair </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if you go to the right internet forums you;ll find them.

the best one i have seen is that karl rove did it to take the heat/media attention off of him. that one was wonderful!

[bell]

I have to say that the UK as a whole has gotten very comfortable in the post-IRA era. This is a very scary and alarming wake up call for us

[bell]

Who on gods Earth is Karl Rove

[The Big \'A\']

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neilstudd:

This week's REM and Queen gigs cancelled.

Every cloud. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

where did you hear this?

I ask because my family are supposed to be seeing Queen on Saturday.

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Venn:

Well you can see how capitalism covers everything. If you're happy, you just buy buy buy.

If you realize it's all pointless, and those in power will stay in power and all they do is try and get more power, you get depressed. So, to be happy again, you buy buy buy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My missus gives me 50 quid a week spends, which does me just fine. Yet I can see quite clearly that capitalism covers everything, and that it's all pointless anyway.

[merry_miller]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

Who on gods Earth is Karl Rove </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.famoustexans.com/karlrove.htm

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The Big 'A':

I ask because my family are supposed to be seeing Queen on Saturday. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well now they're seeing them next Saturday. Check BBC.

[deerokus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

Who on gods Earth is Karl Rove </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

one of those nasty yank republicans

[deerokus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

I have to say that the UK as a whole has gotten very comfortable in the post-IRA era. This is a very scary and alarming wake up call for us </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i'm not sure about that.

purely anecdotally, everyone i know seems quite calm about it. and expected it.

angry but calm.

but that's scotland, i'm sure in london it's different

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

I have to say that the UK as a whole has gotten very comfortable in the post-IRA era. This is a very scary and alarming wake up call for us </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean you honestly weren't expecting it?

[arenaross]

Scary stuff. Thankfully I´m on holiday at the moment otherwise I´d have been right slap bang in the middle of it.

[Daaaaave]

no one expects the spanish inquisition?a

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The Big 'A':

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neilstudd:

This week's REM and Queen gigs cancelled.

Every cloud. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

where did you hear this?

I ask because my family are supposed to be seeing Queen on Saturday. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.nme.com/news/112939.htm

[Jason the Yank]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Boltman:

I think you'll find that the ex-East German pilots flying updated NATO Mig 29's more than held their own against all western forces in exercises. Soviet trained Cuban Mig pilots kicked the South Africans asses all over the place during the Angolan civil war. Please elaborate on why you think Mig's are crap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

During the apartheid era, the United Nations maintained an arms embargo on South Africa, beginning with a voluntary embargo in 1963 and then a mandatory one in 1977. Although the United Nations lifted its embargo in 1994, the United States continued to forbid arms deals with the three firms because of a 1991 indictment charging the companies with violating the U.S. Arms Export Control Act by illegally acquiring U.S. arms for South Africa and smuggling weapons to Iraq in the 1980s through front companies.

Link

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[merry_miller]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

I have to say that the UK as a whole has gotten very comfortable in the post-IRA era. This is a very scary and alarming wake up call for us </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed must admit i didn't think anyone would have the bottle to actually pull a terrorist attack off over here. That said at the same time the security at railway stations etc is non existant atm they are easy targets.

[Boltman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Boltman:

I think you'll find that the ex-East German pilots flying updated NATO Mig 29's more than held their own against all western forces in exercises. Soviet trained Cuban Mig pilots kicked the South Africans asses all over the place during the Angolan civil war. Please elaborate on why you think Mig's are crap. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

During the apartheid era, the United Nations maintained an arms embargo on South Africa, beginning with a voluntary embargo in 1963 and then a mandatory one in 1977. Although the United Nations lifted its embargo in 1994, the United States continued to forbid arms deals with the three firms because of a 1991 indictment charging the companies with violating the U.S. Arms Export Control Act by illegally acquiring U.S. arms for South Africa and smuggling weapons to Iraq in the 1980s through front companies.

Link

</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't explain why you think Migs are crap tho, and the "updated" part is not as relevent as the fact that the east Germans were freed from the restraints of Soviet air tactics. BTW, what's your take on the SU-27?, suppose that's a piece of two-bit commie crap as well.

[Sir Bert Preast]

"

Countries of the World

Back to Air Force Index Page

Cuba

Air Force History

Military aviation started in Cuba with the creation of the Cuerpo de Aviación del Ejército de Cuba (CAEC) on the 5 July 1913 with one Curtiss Model FS. In April 1917 Cuba declared war on Germany during World War One. On the 14 September 1917 a escuadrilla de aviación "Le Escuadrilla Cubaine" was formed for operation in France. During September 1918 Cuban pilots and mechanics started to train in the United States at Kelly Airflied in San Antonio. But World War One ended before the escuadrilla was operational and in April 1919 the Cubans returned home, without going to war.

On the 18 May 1919 the 1.Escuadrón of the CAEC with 9 Curtiss JN-4D was formed. A second squadron was planned for activation but this never materialized. During the next years Cuba bought only small quantities of aircraft and most of these planes were destroyed during a desastrous cyclon in October 1926. During the 1930s the CAEC received about two dozen aircraft as replacement. A uprising in 1931 against President Machado led to the first bombardment of a civilian town by combat aircraft. On the 18 August 1932 aircraft of the CAEC bombarded the town of Gibara, which was subsequently abandoned by the rebellious forces.

After the revolution in 1933 and the final overthrow of President Gerardo Machado y Morales and the subsequent reign of Fulgencio Batista y Zaldivar led to a reorgainsation of the Cuerpo de Aviación del Ejército de Cuba. The service was divided into the Cuerpo de Aviación del Ejército de Cuba and the Aviación Naval. The new organisation finally became effective in 1934, at the time of the renewal of the US-Cuban Treaty. The Air Force now comprised a Escuadrón de Persecución (Fighter Squadron), a Escuadrón de Observación y Bombardeo (Observation and Bombardment Squadron) and one Escuela de Aviación Militar (Military Aviation School).

On 3 June 1940 the ANACRA (Academia Nacional de Aviación Civil Reserva Aérea), a national reserve flying academy, was activated at Campo Brihuegas and addiational airfields were established at La Habana, Camagüey, Kawama, Perla, San Antonio de los Baños, Santa Clara and San Julián.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor Cuba declared war on Japan on 9 December 1941 and on Germany and Italy on the 11 December. During the next years the CAEC received 48 aircraft through the Lend an Lease Program from the United States. Most of these aircraft were communication and training aircraft. During World War Two the United States had some air bases in Cuba. The USAAF operated a squadron of P-39 Aircobra from San Antonio, while the US Navy operated aircraft from San Julián. After signing the Rio Treaty in 1947 Cuba received additional aircraft, this time also combat aircraft and transport aircraft to form a Escuadrón de Transporte (Transport Squadron).

In 1947 the "Legión de Caribe" was formed in Cayo Confites, in the north of Cuba, to overthrow the Dominican dictator Rafael Leónidas Trujillo. About 1000 men and 16 aircraft were assembled. But spies of President Trujillo discovered the plot and launched a media campain to stop the activities in Cuba. After these information have become public the operation was stopped and the aircraft were confiscated and put into service with the CAEC. On 23 April 1952 a reorganisation combined both army and naval aviation elements in a semi-autonomous force with the titel Fuerza Aérea del Ejército de Cuba (FAEC).

In 1956 Fidel Castro started the Cuban Revolution a second time, when he landed with 81 supporters, coming from his exil in Mexico City, in Cuba. Part of the FAEC supported Castros movement "26. July" with the bombardment on the 5 September 1957 of the Cayo Loco Naval Station in Cienfuegos. During the struggle with Castros forces President Batista tried to purchase additional aircraft from the United States, but the U.S. government embargoed for example the purchase of 10 T-28 Trojan. The FAEC received only some aircraft from Great Britain. During 1958 aircraft of the FAEC supported operations of the Cuban Army against Fidel Castros forces. The Fuerza Aérea Rebelde (FAR), which was formed on the 2 May 1958, made their first combat operation with a captured, former Fuerza Aérea Naval, Kingfisher aircraft, against positions of the Cuban army at La Maya. On the 10 November 1958 B-26s made their first night time combat support operations. From the 16 to 24 December 1958 the FAEC flow 70 combat support operations with B-26 and F-47, while the Kingfisher and T-28 of the FAR flow 4 bombing missions. The last battle of the Cuban Revolution was fought on the 28 December 1958 in Santa Clara, in central Cuba. B-26, F-47 and Sea Fury aircraft supported the operations of the Bastista forces. On 1 January 1959 President Batista resigned and fled with a DC-4 to the Dominican Republic and landed at the Base Aérea de San Isidro in Santo Domingo. The Fuerza Aérea Revolucionara (FAR) was formed on the same day.

When the CIA decided that it was time to get some foreign bases out of sight of the US public opinion to complete the training of the Brigade 2506's soldiers and pilots -already training in South Florida-. Guatemala was found as a solution. With a similar tropical environment as Cuba, and ruled by a government more than friendly, the CIA soon began to negotiate with the Guatemalan government the establishment of two secret bases, one for training the brigade's soldiers and the other, a small air base, to complete the training of pilots.

The first base to be created was code-named 'JMTrax'. Located on a coffee plantation called 'La Helvetia' in the foothills between Quetzaltenango and Retalhuleu departments, JMTrax served as a training camp for the ground forces of the brigade. At first, the Cubans pilots were there too, since their Airbase was under construction yet, but two weeks after the arrival, they were finally moved.

The Airbase, code-named 'JMMadd' (known to the Cubans as 'Rayo Base'), was basically a 4800ft long paved runway, coupled with an array of barracks, warehouses and supply shops scattered around a main building that served as administrative and command center. This base was very near to Retalhuleu city, right between the road to Champerico port and the railroad to Mexico. The base's parking ramp proved to be somewhat of a challenge also: Since the only way to accomodate the planes (C-54s, C-46s and B-26s) was lining them up, one behind the other. There was no way to turn an aircraft around. JMMadd was disguised at all times as a Guatemalan Air Force base, despite the obvious lack of local personnel. Thus many of the CIA planes based there were painted in Guatemalan Air Force Colours, and in the case of the C-46s, they even gained faked FAG Serial Numbers in the 800 range. On the other hand, the case of the B-26s was somewhat different: the planes had been delivered officially to the Guatemalan goverment, but right after their arrival all but two were 'leased' to the CIA. Thus, the Cubans and CIA pilots involved in the operation trained in aircraft sporting the blue-white-blue colours, while the local Air Force pilots wondered where the new planes were.

Most of the Cuban pilots were also checked out in C-46s, but their main task was to become efficient B-26 drivers, which they did and had the chance to prove over the skies of Playa Girón. On their part, a group of North American pilots concentrated their efforts in flying supply missions between JMMadd and JMTide, which was the code-name for the CIA airbase in Puerto Cabezas, Nicaragua. These flights were carried out using the faithful Douglas C-54s. JMMadd was supplied by C-54s flying from Miami and South Florida. In contrast with the flights between the two secrets bases, these flights were carried out by 'foreign national' pilots, mainly from Europe and Asia under CIA's contract. The end of JMMadd as a CIA secret base began in late March when the B-26 crews were transferred to Nicaragua, and came for good on April 10 1961 when the last troops were flown to JMTide together with all the equipment for the invasion.

In the early morning of 15 April 1961, eight CIA B-26B, with FAR markings but piloted by cuban exiled crews, took off from Happy Valley in Nicaragua and headed to Cuba. At 6:00 AM, the planes attacked La Libertad airbase where they destroyed a Sea Fury, among other planes. Seven people were killed. Later that same morning, another Sea Fury was destroyed in a hangar of the MOA bay mining company. Shortly after, the San Antonio de los Baños Airbase and the Antonio Maceo Airport were attacked by the B-26Bs. By the end of that day, the FAR was left with less than half of its original air power. There remained only two B-26C, two Sea Furies, and two T-33A at San Antonio de los Baños Airbase, and only one Sea Fury at the Antonio Maceo Airport. On the other hand, two of the attacking B-26 were damaged by ground fire, one of them managed to reach Key West with one engine feathered and low on fuel, and the other landed at Miami IAP in almost the same conditions.

Around 2:00 AM on 17 April, the CIA/cuban exiled assault force reached the shore at Playa Girón but soon they were discovered by an army patrol. The soldiers alerted the nearing bases and several skirmishes broke up. The two surviving Sea Furies were deployed from the San Antonio airbase, and within fifteen minutes they were over the area, making several low passes and strafing the invading forces. When the FAR B-26Cs arrived and began to attack the invaders, the Sea Furies headed to the sea in search of the mother ships. Soon, they were located and the Sea Furies began to attack them. The Sea Fury FAR 541, damaged with rockets the command and control ship "Marsopa" and later, sunk the main supply ship "Houston". Now the invading forces had no command post and almost all the supplies of ammo, food and communications for the invasion were in the bottom of the sea with the "Houston".

One of the Sea Fury (FAR 542), was lost to AAA fire from an invading ship while he was trying to shot down a Curtiss C-46 of the invading forces. Soon after, the four T-33A arrived and began strafing the ships while they were trying to reach international waters. With the worsening of the situation for the invading forces due to the swampy terrain and the strong defense showed by the Cuban Army, four B-26B were deployed from Nicaragua, but after entering the area, one was shot down by a T-33A and another by the Sea Fury. A third B-26B was badly damaged by a Sea Fury (possibly FAR 543). Both surviving B-26B managed to escape to Miami. Near the end of that day, the Sea Fury FAR 541 strafed the invading ship "Rio Escondido" near international waters. From then on, the two surviving Sea Furies concentrated only on ground attack missions against the invasion forces. Within the next 72 hours, the FAR gained total air superiority over the invading force. By 20 April two more B-26B were shot down by the FAR’s T-33A, and on 21 April, ten of their twelve B-26B were destroyed. Attempts to escort the bombers with Nicaraguan Mustangs were made by the invading force, but the idea was quickly discarded; the Mustangs could not reach Cuba, engage in combat and then return to Nicaragua. These planes just didn't had the range to do the job. By wednesday april 21, the invading troops were pushed back to their landing zone at Playa Girón. Surrounded by the cuban army and constantly hammered by FAR aircraft, some began to surrender while others fled into the hills. In total 114 men were killed during the failed invasion. The Sea Furies, and the rest of the surviving combat types in service with the FAR, were replaced finally in May 1961 with the arrival of at least 60 Mig-15 to form three combat squadrons, one at least being at the San Antonio de los Baños Airbase.

American-Cuban relations grew still more perilous in the fall of 1962, when the United States discovered Soviet-supplied missile installations in Cuba. U.S. President John F. Kennedy then announced a naval blockade of the island to prevent further Soviet shipments of arms from reaching it. After several days of negotiations during which nuclear war was feared by many to be a possibility, Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev agreed, on 28 October 1962, to dismantle and remove the weapons, and this was subsequently accomplished. By the time of the Missile Crisis of October 1962 there were 36 MiG -15bis and MiG-15Rbis in Cuba, dispersed to several bases: San Antonio, Santa Clara, Camaguey and Holguin. They frequently tried to intercept US RF-101 and RF-8 reconnaissance aircraft over Cuba. During 1962 the first Mig-21 arrived in Cuba with a soviet air defence regiment. But is was not until 10 August 1963, that the first Cuban MiG-21F-13 regiment was officially established. With this, Cuba obtained the first Mach-2 airplanes in all of Latin America.

On 18 May 1970 several MiG-21s overflew the Bahamas to send a pointed message to the Bahamian government, which was holding fourteen Cuban fishermen it claimed had been fishing in its waters. The fishermen were released.

The Fuerza Aérea Revolucionara got equal status with the Army and Navy in 1972.

In December 1975 Fidel Castro sent a squadron with 9 MiG-17Fs and one MiG-15UTI to the FAPLA (armed forces of the MPLA - "Popular Movement for the Liberation of Angola") air force. The MiG-17Fs, which flow in Angolan markings, commenced operations against the FLEC (Cabinda Enclave Liberation Front) separatist movement. Their zone of operations was in Cabinda and the north of Angola, while MiG-21MFs worked south and east. These operations led to victory in April 1976. In the years following the Cuban MiG-17s operated against UNITA (National Union for the Total Independence of Angola) until replaced by newer MiG-21s, when they were passed to the Angolans. To supplement Cuba's regular aviation units in Angola, in December 1975 Castro ordered MiG-21MFs to be shipped directly from the USSR. In January 1976, giant Antonov An-22 transports airlifted one squadron (twelve MiG-21MFs) to Angola from the Soviet Union. One of the few combats of the war involving enemy aircraft happened on 13 March 1976 when, while attacking the UNITA aerodrome at Gago Coutinho, a flight of four MiG-21MFs surprised a Fokker F-27 on the ground discharging arms.

On 10 September 1977, under "Operation Pico" one squadron of MiG-21MFs overflew Puerto Plata in the Dominican Republic to press for the release of the merchant ship Capitan Leo, which, enroute to Angola, had violated Dominican waters and been interned by the authorities. The plan was to bomb Puerto Plata and Santiago de los Caballeros the next day if the Dominican government didn't cede the ship, but after hurried negotiations it did.

Another part of Africa in which Cuban MiG-17s saw action was Ethiopia. In December, 1977, one squadron of MiG-17s and one squadron of MiG-21bis were employed in operations against Somalian forces invading the Ogaden, which resulted in the latter being pushed completely out of the Ogaden by 13 March 1978. One MiG-17 was shot down by Somali AAA fire. The MiG-17s and Mig-21s made 1013 combat support missions during this conflict. It is interesting to note that in this conflict Cuban MiG-17s and MiG-21s flew combat missions alongside Ethiopian F-5A/B/Es against Somalian MiG-17s and MiG-21s. The last Cuban soldier and aircraft left Ethiopia in September 1989 after 12 years of continous combat operations.

On 10 May 1980 two FAR MiG-21s attacked the Bahamian patrol vessel HMBS Flamingo, which had arrested four Cuban fishing vessels. Cuba admitted this to be in error and paid indemnity.

On 6 November 1981 a South African Air Force (SAAF) Mirage F-1CZ shot down a MiG-21MF, over Angola with 30mm gunfire. It was the SAAF's first victory in air-to-air combat since Korea. Almost a year later on 5 October 1982, the second aerial combat of the war took place. Two Mig-21 clashed with a couple of Mirage F1s. One MiG-21 was lightly damaged by the 30mm gunfire. The MiGs broke contact and returned to their base in Lubango, without encountering any further problems. In 1984 Cuba obtained fifty MiG-23MLs which were sent directly to Angola where they were employed in primarily in the air-to-ground role until late in the war.

The only recorded aerial victory for the Cuban MiG-21s occurred on 3 April 1986 when a pair of MiG-21MFs intercepted two C-130s reportedly carrying cargo to UNITA. They shot down one and the other escaped seriously damaged. According to South Africa (and the International Air Transport Association) they actually shot down a civilian C-130 registered to the Angolan government airline. The best-documented loss of a Cuban-flown MiG-21 over Angola was on 28 October 1987 when an armed two-seater MiG-21UM was downed by ground fire near Luvuei. The two crewmembers successfully ejected and were captured by UNITA."

You know what a C-130 is, I take it? Now bugger off.

[bell]

Yes i expected it, but not really i suppose. During the IRA troubles it was always there, always happening at regular intervals and the threat was never very far from the surface.

Al Qaeda though seems a whole lot more sinister. Happening out of blue, seemingly random, highly co-ordinated and completly without warning.

It hard to be alert aginst such an unknown qauntity.

Weve not had a serious terrorists attack on the UK mainland for such a long time that it its hard to be alert to it.

The same can be said for the Madrid bombings, they have the threat of ETA but when Al Qaeda struck there was the same sense of shock and disbelief that they didnt expect to it happen to them.

[Sir Bert Preast]

Oh ****, sorry.

How did I manage to quote the whole bloody page?

[bell]

Which member of the co-alition is next. Thats Spain, the UK and Pakistan who have all suffered from "retaliation" attacks from Al Qaeda since the beginning of the War against Terror

[Zvonimir Boban]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nixchatabox:

I was at Bluewater Shopping Centre (kent) today, they were all on high alert, v nervous looking staff - understandably..

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why, was there a black store customer? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He had a hoodie on

[Moshi Moshe Mohammed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

Which member of the co-alition is next. Thats Spain, the UK and Pakistan who have all suffered from "retaliation" attacks from Al Qaeda since the beginning of the War against Terror </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are not retaliation attacks, don't ascribe a false cause-and-effect relationship to them.

[merry_miller]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

Which member of the co-alition is next. Thats Spain, the UK and Pakistan who have all suffered from "retaliation" attacks from Al Qaeda since the beginning of the War against Terror </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Denmark or Italy if they don't pull out from Iraq according to them that are claiming responsibility for the attack.

[bell]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by miller_merry:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

I have to say that the UK as a whole has gotten very comfortable in the post-IRA era. This is a very scary and alarming wake up call for us </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed must admit i didn't think anyone would have the bottle to actually pull a terrorist attack off over here. That said at the same time the security at railway stations etc is non existant atm they are easy targets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe in many other major European cities that major train station have metal dectectors etc. Its tough to do it for London stations however due to the sheer volume of people passing through these stations.

[Moshi Moshe Mohammed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by miller_merry:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

Which member of the co-alition is next. Thats Spain, the UK and Pakistan who have all suffered from "retaliation" attacks from Al Qaeda since the beginning of the War against Terror </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Denmark or Italy if they don't pull out from Iraq according to them that are claiming responsibility for the attack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

someone in this thread said al qaeda retracted that threat as a "hoax"..:/

[vidoy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

Which member of the co-alition is next. Thats Spain, the UK and Pakistan who have all suffered from "retaliation" attacks from Al Qaeda since the beginning of the War against Terror </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that website meantion Denmark and Italy. Who knows how true that is

[bell]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by bell:

Which member of the co-alition is next. Thats Spain, the UK and Pakistan who have all suffered from "retaliation" attacks from Al Qaeda since the beginning of the War against Terror </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are not retaliation attacks, don't ascribe a false cause-and-effect relationship to them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hence the quotation marks...