Explosion in London Underground

[Moshi Moshe Mohammed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

And good point, TheCranker. There are people on both sides that do nothing to help the situation, it's not a case of just them being wrong, or just us being wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is so much bullsh1t being thrown about. We are not "both wrong", we have a free and open press that reports the news from a variety of angles. The Middle East does not -- the region has no tradition of journalistic ethics, and it has no freedom of press of any consequence. To that point, the Middle Eastern media is compelled by Middle Eastern governments to promote government propoganda that is decidedly anti-Western. These propoganda efforts shape the Arab popular opinion.

There is a profound difference between journalistic opinion and propoganda, and some of y'all appear to be missing it.

Lastly, I think there is nothing inherently wrong with terrorism. It is indeed correct that civilian targets were bombed during WW2, and civilian populations have been killed and terrorized in hundreds of wars since before the antiquity.

The repulsive nature of the Islamic terrorism consists in the fact that the Islamic terrorists themselves are not the ones bearing the burden of inevitable retaliation. The Islamists know for a fact and expect the Western military reaction with full understanding that their compatriots will suffer greatly as collateral damage.

In other words, they pick a losing fight because they are not the ones bearing the consequence of the defeat -- and this to me is the definition of cowardice.

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

Whatever my shortcomings, theres still no absolute right or wrong, from either side, and no amount of education or argument can hide that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the main trouble. There is no absolute right or wrong, yet at the same time neither is there room for compromises to be made. Dig in, it'll be a long, long war.

[Daaaaave]

yeah mate, it was called the crusades, the spanish inquisition, and the witch trials and it ended a few hundred years ago np? I cringed at my bris, but we generally don't perform genital mutilation in order to keep our wives faithful either? I don't remember a fatwa being issued on chris ofili? I don't remember blaming the great satan to the east on black tuesday in 1987?e

[Gordon Comstock]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

mate, way to completely try to evade my point in the most amateurish way possible.

"yeah, well you guys aren't all that either" basically no excuse? H </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok ok, I lack the knowledge to tackle those points, so I wont even try. But you get plenty of people taking Chirtsianity the wrong way, to suit their own ends, don't you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>when's the last time Bible thumpers flew a plane into Mecca

[mr.moustache]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andy Jordan:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

mate, way to completely try to evade my point in the most amateurish way possible.

"yeah, well you guys aren't all that either" basically no excuse? H </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok ok, I lack the knowledge to tackle those points, so I wont even try. But you get plenty of people taking Chirtsianity the wrong way, to suit their own ends, don't you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>when's the last time Bible thumpers flew a plane into Mecca </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Opinion on god hasn't caused wars?

[Gordon Comstock]

yeah, but back then people though draining the blood out of someone's skull was a valid medical cure.

[Gordon Comstock]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Andy Jordan:

yeah, but back then people thought draining the blood out of someone's skull was a valid medical cure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[mr.moustache]

I'm not convinced that Islam is the only religion that can be used in a negative way.

[Daaaaave]

can be used? no

is currently used? yes

that's the difference mate*

[MattyT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

And good point, TheCranker. There are people on both sides that do nothing to help the situation, it's not a case of just them being wrong, or just us being wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is so much bullsh1t being thrown about. We are not "both wrong", we have a free and open press that reports the news from a variety of angles. The Middle East does not -- the region has no tradition of journalistic ethics, and it has no freedom of press of any consequence. To that point, the Middle Eastern media is compelled by Middle Eastern governments to promote government propoganda that is decidedly anti-Western. These propoganda efforts shape the Arab popular opinion.

There is a profound difference between journalistic opinion and propoganda, and some of y'all appear to be missing it.

Lastly, I think there is nothing inherently wrong with terrorism. It is indeed correct that civilian targets were bombed during WW2, and civilian populations have been killed and terrorized in hundreds of wars since before the antiquity.

The repulsive nature of the Islamic terrorism consists in the fact that the Islamic terrorists themselves are not the ones bearing the burden of inevitable retaliation. The Islamists know for a fact and expect the Western military reaction with full understanding that their compatriots will suffer greatly as collateral damage.

In other words, they pick a losing fight because they are not the ones bearing the consequence of the defeat -- and this to me is the definition of cowardice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just as the western media is compelled by western governments and corporations to report the things they want reported and repress the things they want repressed. There are many examples in Chomsky's 'necessary illusions' and 'understanding power' (coupla books for you there dave, took your advice mate )

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

I'm not convinced that Islam is the only religion that can be used in a negative way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not. It's just that it's currently being used in a particularly devastatingly negative way - and what's annoying me is the lack of condemnation from islamic leaders. I'm not saying they could stop the looneys immediately, but if they'd make it clear that terrorists die as dogs and get no virgins it'd do AQ's recruiting arm quite a bit of damage.

[Moshi Moshe Mohammed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattyT:

just as the western media is compelled by western governments and corporations to report the things they want reported and repress the things they want repressed. There are many examples in Chomsky's 'necessary illusions' and 'understanding power' (coupla books for you there dave, took your advice mate ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ffs

[DeVilish]

I haven't read this thread by i thought i'll just drop by to tell Britons and especially Londoners that I and my fellow countrymen share your pain and anger to this inhumane act.

I got a couple of friends that used to live in London and I hope the situation there is resolved soon.

Also, I'm hoping that this incident won't cause people to have a preconceived negative thought about Islam. I myself is a Catholic, but I came from a country that has Islam as the majority. Some Muslims that I know are the nicest people in the world.

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattyT:

just as the western media is compelled by western governments and corporations to report the things they want reported and repress the things they want repressed. There are many examples in Chomsky's 'necessary illusions' and 'understanding power' (coupla books for you there dave, took your advice mate ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Western media, with only a couple of exceptions, is business. They want to sell more papers or get more viewers. That often means stitching up their own government, something that our media in no way shys away from. They bring you the news that the people want to hear.

You're not really much of a genius, are you? :*(

[Zvonimir Boban]

This thread smells of donkey poop

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DeVilish:

I haven't read this thread by i thought i'll just drop by to tell Britons and especially Londoners that I and my fellow countrymen share your pain and anger to this inhumane act.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's good to know. An unspecified people shares our pain.

[Daaaaave]

just like the arab street? !

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zvonimir Boban:

This thread smells of donkey poop </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shut up and go present yourself as a volunteer for MI5. It's time for you to do your duty. \o/

[Zvonimir Boban]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zvonimir Boban:

This thread smells of donkey poop </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shut up and go present yourself as a volunteer for MI5. It's time for you to do your duty. \o/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rather go to the nets and get some crikeet practice in

Nearly got smoked yesterday though, woke up and saw what had happened on the news and sent a text message to a friend of mine in Londinium that read: "Did I get j00?"

Turns out he was late to the platform and arrived just as the train sped off and he was on the one right behind one of the ones that was bombed.

Lucky he overslept as I was about 10 seconds away from being sent to Guantanamo Bay

[Sir Bert Preast]

[Moshi Moshe Mohammed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Arab world shocked at London attacks

Orly Halpern, THE JERUSALEM POST Jul. 7, 2005

Some in the Arab world expressed shock at the bombings in a city for which many felt great affection and which is home to numerous Arab exile groups, newspapers and businesses.

"It's horrifying," said Hadil, an employee at the London headquarters of the Saudi owned Asharq al-Awsad. "We feel so terrible."

Ashraf a young banker based in Bahrain, told The Jerusalem Post that he too was horrified.

"People are shocked. Especially here in the Gulf," Ashraf said. "Lots of people went to school in London, lots of people spend the summers there. We go to London for business meetings, many people have homes there or rent one for the summer. So this is much closer to home than anything before. We can feel it."

For many Arabs London was the last Western Mecca following the September 11 attacks and the Madrid bombing.

"London was the last place in the West where we Arabs were respected when we showed up at the airport," Ashraf said. "At US airports, I get poked, prodded and asked many questions. But I could go for 24-hours to London, leave, come back three days later and no one would think I'm suspicious."

But not anymore. After a group linked to al-Qaida took responsibility for Thursday's string of terror attacks, Arabs across the world fear that will change.

"The [terrorists] managed to make us look bad everywhere," Ashraf said.

Most Arabic satellite channels, like Al Arabiya and Al Jazeera, aired live footage of the carnage.

Many Muslim and Arab leaders condemned the attacks.

"We condemn with the strongest possible terms these explosions, and convey our sincere condolences to the British people and government," said Palestinian Authority negotiator Saeb Erekat.

"We strongly condemn this act of terrorism," Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf said.

Saudi Arabia's Social Affairs Minister Abdulmohsen al-Akkas said, "It is a heinous act. I don't know who did it. I condemn it in the strongest possible terms and I offer my sympathies to the families."

James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute, condemned the bombings in the name of Arab Americans.

"Like all Americans, we are angered by this act of terrorism and grieve with the people of Britain for their losses," he said in a written statement. "These actions are inexcusable and nothing should distract us from our collective resolve to eliminate the threat of terror that has taken so many lives and caused too much pain."

Now, say many Arabs, they too are in danger from the terrorists. One of the bombs blew up on a train at Edgware Road station. Edgware Road is filled with Arab and Iranian shops, restaurants and homes.

"They are hitting us in our summer spot," said Ashraf. "The message being heard here is that no one is safe, nothing is sacred. Whether you are an Arab in London or a Londoner or an Israeli, they'll get you. Just being an Arab won't protect you anymore."

No Arab who spoke to The Jerusalem Post could give a reason why al-Qaida attacked London. Zein al-Khouri, a Jordanian businesswoman, was also taken aback. "I was totally surprised," she said. "It's terrible. And I don't see anything obvious about it. It could happen anywhere and you can't predict it. You could be doing work or going on holiday with your family. I was planning to go to London next year for vacation with the kids."

"I don't think they targeted Edgware Road because there are Arabs there," said Ashraf. "They just don't care. They are just killing."

AP contributed to this report. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/J...ll&cid=1120702712270

[zigson]

It's an interesting article MMM, but it's obviously significant that it was drawn from the Jerusalem Post, and features quotes from Arabs in London, Bahrain, etc.

I'd be more interested to hear the views of people in places like Iraq.

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zigson:

It's an interesting article MMM, but it's obviously significant that it was drawn from the Jerusalem Post, and features quotes from Arabs in London, Bahrain, etc.

I'd be more interested to hear the views of people in places like Iraq. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he's trying to point out that even the Israeli press doesn't make it's mission to consistently villify Arabs.

[mr.moustache]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattyT:

just as the western media is compelled by western governments and corporations to report the things they want reported and repress the things they want repressed. There are many examples in Chomsky's 'necessary illusions' and 'understanding power' (coupla books for you there dave, took your advice mate ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Western media, with only a couple of exceptions, is business. They want to sell more papers or get more viewers. That often means stitching up their own government, something that our media in no way shys away from. They bring you the news that the people want to hear.

You're not really much of a genius, are you? :*( </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Media transparency in the US and UK is debatable at best. Sure, they might appear to be hampering their respective goverments, but are they really allowed to write anything? The fall-out in the BBC after Iraq suggests probably not. And yeah, it is business, but that doesn't mean that they are giving people what they want to make sales. Peoples opinions can be formed by media, not just catered for.

[A-Team]

Iraq? what happened yesterday in London happens every other day in Iraq. why the f*ck should they be shocked or appalled?

[zigson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattyT:

just as the western media is compelled by western governments and corporations to report the things they want reported and repress the things they want repressed. There are many examples in Chomsky's 'necessary illusions' and 'understanding power' (coupla books for you there dave, took your advice mate ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As in Noam Chomsky? He's Mr Cognitive Psychology / linguistics isn't he? Are those books about media bias or was he just applying his communication theories in a media context?

[zigson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zigson:

It's an interesting article MMM, but it's obviously significant that it was drawn from the Jerusalem Post, and features quotes from Arabs in London, Bahrain, etc.

I'd be more interested to hear the views of people in places like Iraq. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he's trying to point out that even the Israeli press doesn't make it's mission to consistently villify Arabs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got it, I missed a couple of pages of the thread and should've realised it was posted by way of illustration.

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

Media transparency in the US and UK is debatable at best. Sure, they might appear to be hampering their respective goverments, but are they really allowed to write anything? The fall-out in the BBC after Iraq suggests probably not. And yeah, it is business, but that doesn't mean that they are giving people what they want to make sales. Peoples opinions can be formed by media, not just catered for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er, the fall out in the BBC was down to the BBC getting it wrong, and trying to form peoples opinions. Anyway, the BBC is one of the exceptions I pointed out as (theoretically at least) it's not run for profit.

[mr.moustache]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zigson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattyT:

just as the western media is compelled by western governments and corporations to report the things they want reported and repress the things they want repressed. There are many examples in Chomsky's 'necessary illusions' and 'understanding power' (coupla books for you there dave, took your advice mate ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As in Noam Chomsky? He's Mr Cognitive Psychology / linguistics isn't he? Are those books about media bias or was he just applying his communication theories in a media context? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also quite the leftist.

[mr.moustache]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

Media transparency in the US and UK is debatable at best. Sure, they might appear to be hampering their respective goverments, but are they really allowed to write anything? The fall-out in the BBC after Iraq suggests probably not. And yeah, it is business, but that doesn't mean that they are giving people what they want to make sales. Peoples opinions can be formed by media, not just catered for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er, the fall out in the BBC was down to the BBC getting it wrong, and trying to form peoples opinions. Anyway, the BBC is one of the exceptions I pointed out as (theoretically at least) it's not run for profit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought it was down to the government getting it wrong - Weapons of mass destruction.

[Daaaaave]

chomsky basically useless in any of his politics books. it's realy easy to point out problems and point fingers, he has been consistently historically silent when it comes to solutions to those problems.

"this is wrong"

"ok, so what do we do about it?"

"...this is wrong"

"heard you the first time mate. so what's the plan?"

"... ... this is wrong"Æ

[mr.moustache]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

chomsky basically useless in any of his politics books. it's realy easy to point out problems and point fingers, he has been consistently historically silent when it comes to solutions to those problems.

"this is wrong"

"ok, so what do we do about it?"

"...this is wrong"

"heard you the first time mate. so what's the plan?"

"... ... this is wrong"Æ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's still necessary to see problems before they can be solved isn't it?

[Daaaaave]

you honestly think he's identifying problems that haven't already been identified? and who exactly is solving these problems chomsky isn't bothering to follow up on?

[Moshi Moshe Mohammed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

chomsky basically useless in any of his politics books. it's realy easy to point out problems and point fingers, he has been consistently historically silent when it comes to solutions to those problems.

"this is wrong"

"ok, so what do we do about it?"

"...this is wrong"

"heard you the first time mate. so what's the plan?"

"... ... this is wrong"Æ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's still necessary to see problems before they can be solved isn't it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Usually in world affairs trying to solve problems creates other problems.

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

I thought it was down to the government getting it wrong - Weapons of mass destruction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you're wrong. The final score was Blair 1 Dyke 0.

[MattyT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zigson:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattyT:

just as the western media is compelled by western governments and corporations to report the things they want reported and repress the things they want repressed. There are many examples in Chomsky's 'necessary illusions' and 'understanding power' (coupla books for you there dave, took your advice mate ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As in Noam Chomsky? He's Mr Cognitive Psychology / linguistics isn't he? Are those books about media bias or was he just applying his communication theories in a media context? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'understanding power' is a collection of transcripts from his Q&As on a wide range of subjects. 'necessary illusions' is essentially a study of how the media in the developed world serve the interests of corporate and state power.

[mr.moustache]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

I thought it was down to the government getting it wrong - Weapons of mass destruction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you're wrong. The final score was Blair 1 Dyke 0. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What does it prove? The BBC isn't totally free press? Or that goverment were right about Iraq's Weapons?

[Sir Bert Preast]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

What does it prove? The BBC isn't totally free press? Or that goverment were right about Iraq's Weapons? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It proved that the BBC governors had their own political agenda, and that ain't allowed.

[mr.moustache]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

you honestly think he's identifying problems that haven't already been identified? and who exactly is solving these problems chomsky isn't bothering to follow up on? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe not, but to some people that read his books it's certainly a look in to a world they hadn't considered before. I realise he's not solving any problems directly, but, and this is me praising him (I get the feeling some people wont), if he raises awareness of injustice's, then that in itself helping.

[Daaaaave]

the bbc basically admitted they were playing the part of opposition government because they didn't believe the tories of lib dems were up to snuff. arrogant even by my standard? w

[Moshi Moshe Mohammed]

Trying to point out biases in Western press in order to compare it to Arab press is a bit like saying that the Ford cars are no better than bicycles because Ford's ectrical system is shit, and so is the bicycle's.

[Daaaaave]

I still basically disagree. people who read chomsky are as much dittoheads as people who listen to rush. chomsky has never changed a mind in his life, he preaches to his own choir. ,

[A-Team]

I still don't see anything wrong with what the BBC did.

[K-uglen]

In general the media are more controlled than controlling. Political parties and players have a huge advantage over the media, yet it's obvious that both parties and players want it to appear as though they are puppets in a play, rather than hand that guides the play.

[mr.moustache]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

you honestly think he's identifying problems that haven't already been identified? and who exactly is solving these problems chomsky isn't bothering to follow up on? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe not, but to some people that read his books it's certainly a look in to a world they hadn't considered before. I realise he's not solving any problems directly, but, and this is me praising him (I get the feeling some people wont), if he raises awareness of injustice's, then that in itself helping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it's a matter of opinion. At some point though, Iraq's weapons were vastly over-estimated by Mr Blair, and I'm glad that someone had the balls to point it out.

[A-Team]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

I still basically disagree. people who read chomsky are as much dittoheads as people who listen to rush. chomsky has never changed a mind in his life, he preaches to his own choir. , </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

as the 7th(?) most cited author in history he must have a pretty big f*cking choir in that case.

[K-uglen]

Does Chomsky have any relation to a guy like John Searle?

[Daaaaave]

a public news agency decides it doesn't want to be part of the 4th estate anymore and engages directly in politics and you don't find that unsettling, even if you agree with their position? the bbc was as blatantly biased as fox news, bet you can find something wrong with themm

[Moshi Moshe Mohammed]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by A-Team:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

I still basically disagree. people who read chomsky are as much dittoheads as people who listen to rush. chomsky has never changed a mind in his life, he preaches to his own choir. , </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

as the 7th(?) most cited author in history he must have a pretty big f*cking choir in that case. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rush is the most popular radio talk show host in America, what's it got to do with anything?

[Daaaaave]

Iraq's weapons were overestimated specifically due to the fact that Saddam required that overestimation in order to stay in power/keep his prestige in the region.