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Explosion in London Underground


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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattyT:

just as the western media is compelled by western governments and corporations to report the things they want reported and repress the things they want repressed. There are many examples in Chomsky's 'necessary illusions' and 'understanding power' (coupla books for you there dave, took your advice mate icon14.gif) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Western media, with only a couple of exceptions, is business. They want to sell more papers or get more viewers. That often means stitching up their own government, something that our media in no way shys away from. They bring you the news that the people want to hear.

You're not really much of a genius, are you? :*( </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Media transparency in the US and UK is debatable at best. Sure, they might appear to be hampering their respective goverments, but are they really allowed to write anything? The fall-out in the BBC after Iraq suggests probably not. And yeah, it is business, but that doesn't mean that they are giving people what they want to make sales. Peoples opinions can be formed by media, not just catered for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mate, I work in US media. And never have I received a memo or a quiet word or anything that says, "You can't print this."

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Anyone see the footage on the news from the CCTV camera's?

It's absolutely abysmal. There's no way you could identify someone even if they were your next door neighbour.

The technology is there to have an excellent security system but I suppose the money isn't available.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Neil Purvis:

Anyone see the footage on the news from the CCTV camera's?

It's absolutely abysmal. There's no way you could identify someone even if they were your next door neighbour.

The technology is there to have an excellent security system but I suppose the money isn't available. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the resolution also degrades when its transferred into the TV format for you to watch on your big screen? Because they identify people off of those things all the time.

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Anyone seen the latest footage on TV where it shows survivers standing on the top deck of the bus just after the bomb blast?.They are asking these people to phone a emergency number so they can be identified to let loved ones no they are safe and well.

Linkage if anyone as seen it as i missed it

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

chomsky basically useless in any of his politics books. it's realy easy to point out problems and point fingers, he has been consistently historically silent when it comes to solutions to those problems.

"this is wrong"

"ok, so what do we do about it?"

"...this is wrong"

"heard you the first time mate. so what's the plan?"

"... ... this is wrong"Æ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm not going to reopen this as I guess this has finished now but this really isn't the case. He's a well known advocate of branches of anarchism, which if you don't count as a solution then so be it, but in my view you'd be wrong.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K-uglen:

1) is a very good point. I will pull out Congo as an example again, because less than 10% of the troops there are from 'the West' IIRC.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunately the conduct of these troops has required an overhaul of UN procedures, and there exist no-go areas for peacekeepers where the locals will be safe from their protectors.

Most of the UN's armed forces need much improved training and selection methods before they can be assured of a welcome in foreign lands.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K-uglen:

Maybe I just don't want to believe that is true, but I'd rather think of it another way. The emotional tie bar none that we have is to our next-of-kin, our family. People have for thousands of years lived as family units without having a state to 'upload' their affinities into. The state, I believe, has constructed this affinity, in presenting a frame that made the individual more secure; if the only ones you feel alike is your family and next-of-kin, you won't feel as secure as you will if you feel your next-of-kin could potentially be everyone within a given area or territory.

If the affinity to the state is a creation, I can't help but ask in naïvity: Why can't an affinity with humanity as a whole be created? (with a big fu-ck off time frame for it to develop of course).

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Affinity with the family, affinity with the state - yes, logically one would expect the next step to be affinity with humanity. Unfortunately, one of the major driving forces behind people grouping together in families, tribes and states has been protection from the aggression, whether real or imagined, of other families, tribes and states.

Until humanity finds a common enemy, it just won't happen. In my youthful optimism, I hoped that climate change might provide this, but it seems nobody really cares until the danger is very clear and present for themselves. Or, perhaps, their family, tribe or state.

: doom :

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zvonimir Boban:

Lucky he overslept as I was about 10 seconds away from being sent to Guantanamo Bay icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The tortune at Gitmo mostly consists of making the jihadis look at pornography. The horror. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seriously? Sign me up icon14.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daaaaave:

1) to have your own troops on the line would dissuade the russias, chinas, and pakistans of the world from arming north korea both with conventional and nbc weapons, so part of the problem would never have arisen in the first place.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think so. NBC perhaps, but certainly Russia and China sold conventional arms to whoever would pay. Both were fully confident they could destroy any buyer who tried bite the hand that feeds, and with good reason.

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there seem to be more police at the Liverpool stations that normal in Liverpool. I think that is normal as all the cities probably got more police at stations as the terroists could go anywhere or strike at any time.

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Did anybody see the new evidence that the BBC showed on the 6 o'clock news? I don't know if they repeated it on a later bulletin.

They had a video of someone on the Edgware Road train just after the bomb went off, which clearly showed the time as approximately 8.53am, meaning there was a very high chance that all three devices detonated at exactly the same time. So there's a high possibility that it was a very similar tactic as employed in Madrid, remote detonation via cellphone or something.

If only those pesky terrorists would share their technology, people would pay a fortune to be able to get a phone signal on the tube icon13.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Juventino4Life:

So what happens now, with London getting hit, what is the next move? What do you guys believe the top nations should do? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For starters, I'd chuck everyone on record as publicly supporting islamic terror, world domination or imposition of sharia law in any non muslim nation in jail. I would not expect this to round up AQ sleepers, but I would expect it to greatly hinder their recruiting more in the UK.

Moving on, I'd like to see a massive recruitment drive among westernised muslims who are brave enough to stand up for what they believe their religion to mean. These are the only young men who have a real chance of infiltrating the terror groups, and the only ones who can truly destroy them.

Next I would deny access to muslim asylum seekers except in exceptional circumstances e.g. they are being persecuted for speaking out against fundamentalists. The rest can go to muslim countries, we can still make our quota from elsewhere.

Then I'd wait and see what happens. If the threat seems significantly reduced it'd probably do. But I doubt it would be.

So, phase V would be to attack those who attack us. Not the bombers themselves, as they're usually a little tricky to spot. No, the ones I want are the imams who inspire them to such irrational hatred. Yes, an international campaign of assasination is what I am advocating, my friends. Many islamic leaders refuse to condemn terror attacks only because to do so means the terrorists will kill them. We need to give the imams who openly support terror the same message.

Lastly, I don't believe we can afford to let Iran have nukes. We shouldn't rely on the Israelis this time to do the job for us - not if we ever want peace in the region. We must do it. Tomorrow would be good.

That should sort it icon14.gif Durch.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gr81:

Found out today one of the players from the non-league side i support was working in the BMA building where the bus bomb went off.

http://www.wefc.co.uk/news/050708a.asp icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

omg omg omg freaky stuff !!!!111111

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gr81:

Found out today one of the players from the non-league side i support was working in the BMA building where the bus bomb went off.

http://www.wefc.co.uk/news/050708a.asp icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Er, that's actually an extremely tenuous link you have there. icon_biggrin.gif

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Many apologies for not getting in touch sooner, although I did talk to individuals on MSN.

Thankfully Carmen turned up safe and well about 45 minutes ago, having deigned to realise I may be getting a little worried, although she did manage to put the Spanish SIM in the English phone and vice versa, which meant the reason she couldn't ring at first was because of overcrowded phonelines and errr the wrong SIM.

Today basically we kept missing one another.

Apparently she was out buying pregnancy clothes when it all kicked off and whilst she wasn't too close to the blasts, she was close enough to get caught in the aftermath.

As far as I can recall on the day of the Madrid bombing we were sat at a bus-stop attempting to get a bus to Alicante station and then ride into Madrid to meet her cousin.

Although not as good as the Aussie that has so far avoided the Bali, London and tsunami, we're quite close!

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The next move for Britain?

Awhile back I watched a documentary on Europe's efforts to fight Islamic extremism. During the show it was opined that the UK was comfortable with their new status as Islamic extremist central for Europe because it allowed them to keep tabs on everybody. Sort of keeps your friends close and your enemies closer theory. I'd imagine they might rethink that philosophy if the courts will let them.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

Has nobody else any idea as to what the next move should be, then?

Nobody even want to rip my post to shreds? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd try, but I don't think anyones willing to do the everbody get together, try to love one another thing, so I guess your post is more contructive than mine could be in these circumstances.

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A bloke I speak to on another messageboard has informed me that a mate that he hasnt spoken to for ages is to appear on the front of The Sun tomorrow. And I feel so sorry for him, everyone of my mates in London are all accounted for...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

Has nobody else any idea as to what the next move should be, then?

Nobody even want to rip my post to shreds? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd try, but I don't think anyones willing to do the everbody get together, try to love one another thing, so I guess your post is more contructive than mine could be in these circumstances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean my evening has not been misspent? That I have accomplished something with MEANING? That you are ENLIGHTENED?

That's fb. icon14.gif

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I read with interest the alluditations to Noam Chomsky for I am currently involved in an email discussion with Mark Bauerlein, professor of English at Emory University about Chomsky.

He wrote a review of the book 'the anti-chomsky' and has some interesting views on him, despite backtracking on most of the claims he makes in the review.

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And whilst I agree he does not point out answers, as I have discussed with Dave, he does not need to - for his modus operandi is purely to deal with the words used by the media.

Frankly how anyone believes that you have 'free speech' in a country dominated by 4 large media companies, each owned by their own large holding company I'm not sure.

Pro-capitalist bias is bias all the same.

It's just like saying how democratic a country we live in when you have 2 or 3 political parties to choose from with any degree of a chance of being elected.

Ahhhhh I feel back at home now.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Secret_squirrel:

Frankly how anyone believes that you have 'free speech' in a country dominated by 4 large media companies, each owned by their own large holding company I'm not sure.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't reckon so. I have worked with a multitude of Sun readers, and they take most of it with a pinch of salt just as Guardian readers would. It's mostly that it echoes their political views, and has tits in.

If the Sun starts printing bo||ocks, they'll spot it straight off. They aren't as stupid as most Guardianites might imagine - the paper reflects their views rather than forms them.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

Has nobody else any idea as to what the next move should be, then?

Nobody even want to rip my post to shreds? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd try, but I don't think anyones willing to do the everbody get together, try to love one another thing, so I guess your post is more contructive than mine could be in these circumstances. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean my evening has not been misspent? That I have accomplished something with MEANING? That you are ENLIGHTENED?

That's fb. icon14.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd still prefer it if we loved our fellow man instead of a string of assasinations. icon_wink.gif.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't reckon so. I have worked with a multitude of Sun readers, and they take most of it with a pinch of salt just as Guardian readers would. It's mostly that it echoes their political views, and has tits in.

If the Sun starts printing bo||ocks, they'll spot it straight off. They aren't as stupid as most Guardianites might imagine - the paper reflects their views rather than forms them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I meant CBS/CNN/ABC/NBC, papers by and large are more obvious with their political views, television can be more difficult, apart from Fox.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Secret_squirrel:

Frankly how anyone believes that you have 'free speech' in a country dominated by 4 large media companies, each owned by their own large holding company I'm not sure.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't reckon so. I have worked with a multitude of Sun readers, and they take most of it with a pinch of salt just as Guardian readers would. It's mostly that it echoes their political views, and has tits in.

If the Sun starts printing bo||ocks, they'll spot it straight off. They aren't as stupid as most Guardianites might imagine - the paper reflects their views rather than forms them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry for ruining things Bert, but every time I've read the Sun it seems like its all bo||ocks.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

Sorry for ruining things Bert, but every time I've read the Sun it seems like its all bo||ocks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Will you suffer the inanity manfully, or campaign for Sun readers to be deprived of the vote, then?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mr.moustache:

Sorry for ruining things Bert, but every time I've read the Sun it seems like its all bo||ocks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Will you suffer the inanity manfully, or campaign for Sun readers to be deprived of the vote, then? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It wouldn't be such as bad thing, would it?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neilstudd:

Did anybody see the new evidence that the BBC showed on the 6 o'clock news? I don't know if they repeated it on a later bulletin.

They had a video of someone on the Edgware Road train just after the bomb went off, which clearly showed the time as approximately 8.53am, meaning there was a very high chance that all three devices detonated at exactly the same time. So there's a high possibility that it was a very similar tactic as employed in Madrid, remote detonation via cellphone or something.

If only those pesky terrorists would share their technology, people would pay a fortune to be able to get a phone signal on the tube icon13.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure they would have been able to do it via phone due to lack of signal. More likely to have been a timer on the explosives set to detonate at 8.53, all the bombers would have to do is make sure the timing devices are set to the same time.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Juventino4Life:

So what happens now, with London getting hit, what is the next move? What do you guys believe the top nations should do? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We leave the Middle East and let it burn.

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