I need help with my Deep-Lying forward.

[dolph11]

I'm currently indulging in a Barcelona save, my first one ever. Not to keen o the Tiki-Taka football so want something more exciting, which I have achieved. I have totally changed the whole dynamic of the team, even using Iniesta in a Wide role, which he is excelling in and really showing a different side to a Barcelona team. I have been using Messi in the DLF (s) role, like a fake 9, dropping deep and finding time on the ball, alongside Villa in an advanced forward role. It's working well, I'm having a few games where it's wroking very effectively but some games the DLF doesn't get involved enough. How can I get him to drop deep more and become more of an influence? I'm using Xaxi as a centre-mid AP (a) role as a playmaker, do you think this is hampering the DLF? Any help would be appreciated. I have uploaded pictures but would love to know how to just put them in the thread as cleon does, would make it much easier for you guys to look at and help!

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=2j7zhidluld066g - Tactic

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=b5ejule4tdtndvl - League Table

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0snbgvzqmh0aav2 - V. Porto

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=n5olre97iuidi2i - DLF Instructions

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=5cgfp1nk1u1vhgc - Results so far.

Take a look and see if you can help.

[Cleon]

I posted this elsewhere but it might help you;

Introducing the Attack;

The above screenshots will help you get a little insight into Ganso’s personality and understand him as a player a bit more than by just looking at his attributes.

Everybody knows Ganso is (will be) world-class and he’s no different on the game. But there is a drawback with players like this on FM and it is how the hell do you get the best out of someone who can play many roles? Well there isn’t a definite answer and for many people these are the type of players they struggle to fit into their own teams. It can be hard to pick a set position or tactical settings that bring the best out of him at times because he is so well rounded. I could have retrained him to play in any position from the midfield up. But as I was managing Santos I lacked a real quality striker. So I retrained him the first season to play as a striker. I know he makes a good player across the attacking positions but I felt for how I wanted the team to play; he could be the quality forward that all teams look for.

[Cleon]

Everybody knows Ganso is (will be) world-class and he’s no different on the game. But there is a drawback with players like this on FM and it is how the hell do you get the best out of someone who can play many roles? Well there isn’t a definite answer and for many people these are the type of players they struggle to fit into their own teams. It can be hard to pick a set position or tactical settings that bring the best out of him at times because he is so well rounded. I could have retrained him to play in any position from the midfield up. But as I was managing Santos I lacked a real quality striker. So I retrained him the first season to play as a striker. I know he makes a good player across the attacking positions but I felt for how I wanted the team to play; he could be the quality forward that all teams look for.

It also meant I saved a fortune in trying to bring someone else in. Especially on the tight budget I’ve had the last 4 seasons. None the less, I’m starting to see my investment payoff now and Ganso is creating quite a few goals as well as scoring frequent. Which is expected really but what role does he actually play in the W-M I hear you ask. Let’s take a look shall we?

Those are his tactical instructions. Now if you’ve been following the thread you’ll have seen some screenshots, pkm’s and match highlights and seen how heavily involved in play Ganso is. The next bit will try and explain firstly why I’ve set him up to play the way I have. As well as to highlight his actual role in the formation.

Many of you would presume that playing him as a Trequartista would be the easy option and you’d be correct. But the W-M is more about team play than individual brilliance. I have no doubts that he’s be perfect for the Trequartista role but I want him to be less gung-ho and selfish in his approach. If not then the attacking part of the tactic will fail badly against teams who are defensive. I need Ganso to be reserved in his approach and yet be able to unlock a defence with his passing and creativity should we need it.

Goal Scoring Movement

Movement is key for any player to gain that extra half of yard or to lose his marker. Here are a few screenshots of how Ganso’s movement works allowing him to score.

On that screenshot he is just jockeying just outside the area. This is one of the reasons I gave him the Deep Lying Forward role to ensure he wasn’t always advanced. It can pay to have players more cautious and reserved; there is no need to always be attacking. I could have achieved this with the Treq role as well but by altering the mentality individually. Something I didn’t really want to do.

That screenshot is of him making the run into the box as late as possible and losing his marker by checking back and going round the back of him. He then slots the ball home.

[Cleon]

The next screenshot is from the same game but the build up to his second goal. Again he is not that attacking in his movement but he is been clever and reading the game well.

By the time we look at the next screenshot Ganso is screaming (well I imagine with the hand gestures) for the ball and timely advancing forward ready for the pass.

Then in the last screenshot you can see his timely run into the box and he just has to tap the ball into the net. Just look at the space he has because he made the run from deep and wasn’t too deep to begin with. As did the Right sided forward but we’ll touch upon him later. By running from deep late, the player is actually unmark able for most parts as the defence has to go back to follow Neymar. So technically Neymar creates the space and Ganso exploits it.

Bringing Others into Play

Now we’ve seen what a threat he can by the type of goals he scored, I thought it be best we look at how he performs with build up play. I can and will show more varied goals that he has scored but I want to talk about what he offers the team in more detail first, other than just his goal tally.

Ganso doesn’t get as many assists as you think he would judge by his stats. But that’s only half the picture so doesn’t show the full story. Sometimes he is the start of a 10 pass move, or 5 pass move. So he doesn’t get the credit he deserves.

In the above screenshot that is him playing with his back to goal. Neymar passes the ball to him and immediately he is looking to turn and run into the channels (this is why forwards should have move into channels set).

As you can see he has acres and acres of space to run into and exploit. If you take a look at the goal above what Neymar provided for Ganso, this is almost the reversible happening as Ganso is turning provider this time as Neymar as cut inside.

[Cleon]

He just puts the ball across the box and Neymar lets it run across him and then fires it into the right corner.

You see this happening time and time again. Ganso offers so much upfront, he is more than just goals and assists he is almost the engine room for all attacks. I know in the examples I’ve show above it seems to favour the left side, but it doesn’t as you’ll see a little later on when we look at the right sided striker.

Hopefully this will give you a little insight into how Ganso performs. It will get more detailed about his role and look at things in even greater detail. But I want to discuss the rest of the squad first to give you a better outline of how things work.

[Cleon]

That's how I set up my DLC and he scores bucket loads and creates loads. All the above was posted here http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/289528-The-SI-Sports-Centre-All-You-Need-To-Know-About-FM if you need to know anything else

[dolph11]

Thanks Cleon, your instructions look like he will be going forward a lot. I really want Messi to keep coming deep into the hole and cause havoc. It works well so far due to him coming deep he really pulls the defence apart creates space for the AF and the IF. Just not happening often enough. Don;t want to use an attacking midfield role either.

[Cleon]

Btw I noticed on your tactic that you have the DLF on the left. Id have him on the right. Why? because you have an inside forward on the left so the DLF is dropping deep into the space the inside forward uses when he cuts inside meaning it gets congested at times.

[Cleon]

Thanks Cleon, your instructions look like he will be going forward a lot. I really want Messi to keep coming deep into the hole and cause havoc. It works well so far due to him coming deep he really pulls the defence apart creates space for the AF and the IF. Just not happening often enough. Don;t want to use an attacking midfield role either.

What his goal scoring record and assists like playing the role for you? Mine is a lot more involved than you think, especially if you look at the thread I linked. You'll see how he creates and brings others into play.

[dolph11]

I thought that, but, It kinda works well as he drops deep but the IF goes forward and it confuses the defence. The actually don't get in each other's way. I may change it up a little. With the DLF (s) he doesn't run into the channels so he just drops of and lay's off to the IF or AF. Gonna have a little fiddle around now. Thanks for the help!