TACTICS! after last patch!

[Mickeylad]

Dont care that the Mod's say no update was done to the match engine!, not one of my tactics that ive had success with work any more after that last patch! ive spent the last 2 days trying to create new ones and im getting

stuffed in most games, something is not right here! anybody else having similar experiences???

[SuperStevieG]

Yep me too, everyone except Carroll used to be brilliant for me now Carroll is brilliant but everyone else is awful

[VicGAx]

The patch has ruined the game really. There's a noticeable decrease in conversion of chances. Also, team morale goes down very quickly!

[james1946]

Completely agree, booted a game up with Roma on the new patch. Exactly the same tactic used with Roma on previous patch and I was getting stuffed!

However I have created a new one and have 4 wins and a draw out of 5 so far...

[Llew_Arshavin23]

I'm having vaguely similar problems. I can't seem to keep possession in the manner I was able to do pre-12.2.0 patch.

[grimness]

I'm on 12.0.3 cos I'm still waiting feedback on latest patch and eventual hotfix. While there weren't any big changes to the ME, there have been tweaks to the team talks. And team talks and morale boosting are very important. So take a look and see the changelog what may be causing you hard time.

BTW put Steam offline so it doesn't automatically patch the game next time and you have time to read the feedback.

[Falahk]

what am I doing wrong to not notice any difference to how my tactics work? oh right, there was no changes to the ME, its still the same thing

edit: I think the main reason why ppl end up having problems of this type is not really becouse of the tactics themselves (unless they exploited some ME bug that got fixed), but rather that you came of a long term game on the old patch and start a new save when the update is out, so you pretty much go from a well gelled and drilled squad that have already got used to you, to something compleatly different (and no save on fm will ever turn out to be exactly the same thing)

this theory would clearly exclude Llew thought, he have probably never made it far enough into the game to have a gelled squad, before he ended up starting a new save

grimness: the only major difference between the patch you are using and the current one is that moral have been fine tunned and improved (you can no longer exploit it to go on unrealistic runns, early on inparticular when you have low manager rep, before the players really start to respect you)

if the change log was anything to go on they also fine tunned regen generation, but I have yet to make it to any intake so I cant really tell how this one will work out

[DaSilva9]

The match engine hasn't changed but the way the CPU implement their tactics has. SI have made number of adjustments to combat the narrow 3-1-3-3 formations that exploited the AI so that now the CPU is more likely to use shouts and OIs to combat your formation. So if you play narrow the AI is quicker to exploit the flanks, etc....

So unbalanced formations might struggle under the better AI

[Bebetu]

The match engine hasn't changed but the way the CPU implement their tactics has. SI have made number of adjustments to combat the narrow 3-1-3-3 formations that exploited the AI so that now the CPU is more likely to use shouts and OIs to combat your formation. So if you play narrow the AI is quicker to exploit the flanks, etc....

So unbalanced formations might struggle under the better AI

yeah right 3 at the back tactics were crapy already,now they suck even more.

[Tactikzz]

Did they add a few player preferred moves and positions that players are more comfortable playing in also (red, orange and green playing position dots on their profile)?

I've noticed that a player, while using the exact same tactic doesn't get forward nowhere near as much, and I think the game has added 'stays back at all times' to his profile. Busquets is the player I'm talking about. He hardly gets forward now through the centre when before the patch I'd find him in and around the opponents goal using the current tactical settings. Now he's very rarely found there.

Did he had that PPM before, if anyone can remember? Also, he can now play sweeper and central defence, so I think that's changed too. If someone can confirm these changes that would be cool, thanks.

[ham_aka_stam]

Data may have changed, so if you've started a new save, you may notice that. But no changes have gone into the ME.

Furthermore, it's not a moderator's word you should be taking... it's the SI guys who posted the changelist.

[thomit]

To original question: Nope, not seeing that. If anything my tactics seems to work even better - but I'm pretty sure it's a coincidence.

[Mickeylad]

what am I doing wrong to not notice any difference to how my tactics work? oh right, there was no changes to the ME, its still the same thing

edit: I think the main reason why ppl end up having problems of this type is not really becouse of the tactics themselves (unless they exploited some ME bug that got fixed), but rather that you came of a long term game on the old patch and start a new save when the update is out, so you pretty much go from a well gelled and drilled squad that have already got used to you, to something compleatly different (and no save on fm will ever turn out to be exactly the same thing)

this theory would clearly exclude Llew thought, he have probably never made it far enough into the game to have a gelled squad, before he ended up starting a new save

grimness: the only major difference between the patch you are using and the current one is that moral have been fine tunned and improved (you can no longer exploit it to go on unrealistic runns, early on inparticular when you have low manager rep, before the players really start to respect you)

if the change log was anything to go on they also fine tunned regen generation, but I have yet to make it to any intake so I cant really tell how this one will work out

I understand starting a new game would change how my tactics would work due to low manager rep and all that....but I hadn't started a new game, the patch updated save games so you didn't have to start a new game (that's what the SI guys said) the only thing you didn't get was the database changes which you had to start a new game to get.

as soon as the game updated i went from "well oiled and drilled" to couldn't hit he back of the net with 26 attempts!! for the rest of the season and got booted out all the competitions i was in!. that's the point I was trying to make.

ive started a new game at the moment and really struggling with everything I attempt, so im finding the game extremely frustrating to play at this time, but persevering!

[flipsix3]

Business as usual here, updated mid-season and carried on where I left off. Couple of tough results against Spurs (league and cup) followed up with a 3-0 win over Man Utd and a thrashing of Wolves - all with the same Blackburn squad and tactics (Season 4) so no major impact that I've seen.

[Flohrinho]

My tactics still work like a charm. Imo the only thing changed is that the AI now tries to exploit the flanks more if you leave space there. But as I said in another thread if there is no material (videos, pkms, screen shots) it's hard to really say what's going wrong.

[JPChenet]

Got to agree... something has changed! My tactics hit a wall after about 15 games.

[heathxxx]

I've yet to start a new save, but in my Granada CF save I've been playing since game release, I've yet to notice anything untoward tactically.

That said, all the settings I use are via the Tactics Creator and in-match shouts. I have three formations saved, (4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2) which are all part of the same basic setup, using mostly the same player roles. My team is 100% fluid in all three formations.

[sthptngomad76]

I'm getting totally flogged now match after match, over and over. Dunno what's happened tbh.

[Cleon]

People should actually watch games and find out the actual faults and use the analysis tab to aide them.

[steakfaced]

I don't know about the tactics aspect but I started a new save and my players react negatively to nearly all team talks, and neutral. I never have a positive team talk, and I started on the Automatic rating.

[Falahk]

I don't know about the tactics aspect but I started a new save and my players react negatively to nearly all team talks, and neutral. I never have a positive team talk, and I started on the Automatic rating.

I get possitive reactions pretty much every time out of my team talks, but im a bit into my save and mostly have players with resonable professionalism and determination, so they are rather easy to handle and I dont need to micro manage it to much

it could very well be that you have lots of conflicting personalitys on your team, and hence everyone will react differently to your team talk

[steakfaced]

I get possitive reactions pretty much every time out of my team talks, but im a bit into my save and mostly have players with resonable professionalism and determination, so they are rather easy to handle and I dont need to micro manage it to much

it could very well be that you have lots of conflicting personalitys on your team, and hence everyone will react differently to your team talk

I don't know, I'm Ajax and everyone knows each other with no new signings. It's been like this since the start, so not sure.

[rekoil87]

this is the first time i think i have ever struggled , i actually got sacked which has not happened since championship manager days!

[rayman1]

My tactics work as gold...

[Original-Jolstar]

I also agree. I good tactic that I was quite successful with (Mr Hough's Swarm tactic), has now gone ineffective. I can't get possession of the ball, and can't get out of my own half!

[MetalHeroChris]

Same thing seems to be coming up over multiple forums. I tried a few tactics that worked in an old save with the latest patch (12.2.1) applied and they hit the wall, totally ineffective.

But I have to say the thing that frustrate me the most (at the moment) are how during team talks no matter what I use my players have nothing but bad reactions. Even if I let my Assistant (Motivating 18) take the team talks still bad reactions.

And now I can't seem to get a tactic to work...I don't know if it is the patch but things seem a little odd if more and more people are having similar issues.

[bullybeef]

I found that moral was suddenly becoming negatively affected since the new hot-fixes, but for no apparent reason (top of my league and unbeaten). I wouldn't mind, my players weren't concerned about anything specific and the moral ratings were no lower than 'Okay'. I used interaction to ask the players to improve their performances (in particular my attacking players), and instant improvement.

This is something I have never experienced or made a connection to on any other FM version, and wasn't a problem until the last few days.

[big daddy]

I have manage to stop my downfall, by giving teamtalks to my assistent. That fixed my morale issues. And balanced tactics seem to work better now. Before the change I was getting better results with fluid. I have also noticed in italy that all the top teams are now using 3 man defences !??

[ChipK]

If nothing has changed then I'm Djengis Kahn. I went from Serie A winners to relegation battle after the patch and so did my mate. On my Liverpool save I am also struggling after winning the premiership the season before. Something is not right.

[szp]

For me, there is now a problem with away games. And of course defence. My defenders just don't want to bother computer's attackers. No matter what settings i use (marking or zonal, tight or loose, no matter what strategy, philosophy etc.).

[wwfan]

The only thing that was changed was some tweaks to AI decision making against formations without FBs.

[ChipK]

I would not be surprised if those changes had some unintended effect on other things during the match because I used to play a pretty standard 4-4-2 on all my saves and was doing good, and that tactic started to perform really bad on all my saves after the patch. Coincidence?

[wwfan]

I would not be surprised if those changes had some unintended effect on other things during the match because I used to play a pretty standard 4-4-2 on all my saves and was doing good, and that tactic started to perform really bad on all my saves after the patch. Coincidence?

Very much a coincidence. If you use FBs, none of the changes will have any effect on your matches.

[flipsix3]

Finally finished Season 4 (the one I patched mid-season). No radical change in style of play, just my usual adapting to opposition strengths etc, missed out on Prem title on the last day of the season with Rovers - definitely not seeing a change at match engine level

[james1946]

100% agree with this post, Morale is terrible and volatile. Players nearly always playing "nervously" despite having a good teamtalk and positive reaction?

This was with Roma who won serie A and the cup,

it's a real game killer for me

[big daddy]

Like I wrote earlier, use your ass. man. then it works as before.

[Falahk]

100% agree with this post, Morale is terrible and volatile. Players nearly always playing "nervously" despite having a good teamtalk and positive reaction?

This was with Roma who won serie A and the cup,

it's a real game killer for me

Roma chocking and playing nervously......why are you suprised by that? how is that unrealistic? a large portion of your squad is probably bad at dealing with pressure due to hidden attributes and you simply need to take this into consideration when you are team talking to them

im currently trying to figure out how to best deal with this part on my own Roma save, I started of with a very bumpy ride becouse of that and a small injury crisis (yay finaly I got one of those, Burdisso doing Osvaldos cirticate in training really was not helping me to much ) but have recently started to slowly get to grips with it as im geting to know my squad better and better

[kymsheba]

yeah right 3 at the back tactics were crapy already,now they suck even more.

i always use 3 at the back and am doing great you just have to get it right is all. 1 fbl, 1cd, 1fbr is what i play but i find you need 2 DMC if you play like this.

[Tactikzz]

i always use 3 at the back and am doing great you just have to get it right is all. 1 fbl, 1cd, 1fbr is what i play but i find you need 2 DMC if you play like this.

I've got a tactical set up that features a wide three-at-the-back. The only problem with that is the space between each player, and the problem that I've just mentioned in another thread of 'tactics when in possession and when without possession.' Ideally I'd like my back three wide when in possession, but moving narrower when without. Through-balls around and over the top are always going to be a problem with a wide back three, but every system has its weaknesses.

[Sussex Hammer]

Since the patch the defending is as bad as ever and my tactics which gave me quite high possession just don't work anymore. Spent all of Sunday playing Arsenal away about 25 times just trying to come up with a formation and way of playing that gave me some hope but lost them all bar one draw. Van Persie seemed to score in the first 5 minutes every game either by turning my statuesque defender or by just walking through between two centre backs and he must have bagged about 10 hat tricks. Didn't matter what I did, zonal, man, deep, high, Arsenal played like robots that never gave the ball away and half way through possession I did get a player just decides to stand there until he loses it. When Arteta scored from just outside his OWN penalty area I called it a day and re loaded FM11. Played this game since it came out years ago and sadly won't buy another, I'll just stick with 11 or load one of the older games up and use the editor. I just don't have the time to spend reading 30 pages of Theoretical Frameworks or whatever they are called just to find out how to stop players acting like children and not wanting to play anymore becuse they lose one game!! Sorry for the rant I just think FM has become a full time occupation now rather than a game.

[higgins]

I've yet to start a new save, but in my Granada CF save I've been playing since game release, I've yet to notice anything untoward tactically.

That said, all the settings I use are via the Tactics Creator and in-match shouts. I have three formations saved, (4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2) which are all part of the same basic setup, using mostly the same player roles. My team is 100% fluid in all three formations.

Unbalanced tactics or tactics that worked exploiting a ME weakness could have been affected by last patch, well built tactics with logical shape and good distribution of roles and duties surely couldn't.

[wwfan]

Unbalanced tactics or tactics that worked exploiting a ME weakness could have been affected by last patch, well built tactics with logical shape and good distribution of roles and duties surely couldn't.

The only "possible exploit" targeted in 12.2 was a perceived advantage gained by teams playing with two DCs and 2 WBs. This doesn't effect the ME, but the shouts the AI will use against a no-FB formation.

[wwfan]

Since the patch the defending is as bad as ever and my tactics which gave me quite high possession just don't work anymore. Spent all of Sunday playing Arsenal away about 25 times just trying to come up with a formation and way of playing that gave me some hope but lost them all bar one draw. Van Persie seemed to score in the first 5 minutes every game either by turning my statuesque defender or by just walking through between two centre backs and he must have bagged about 10 hat tricks. Didn't matter what I did, zonal, man, deep, high, Arsenal played like robots that never gave the ball away and half way through possession I did get a player just decides to stand there until he loses it. When Arteta scored from just outside his OWN penalty area I called it a day and re loaded FM11. Played this game since it came out years ago and sadly won't buy another, I'll just stick with 11 or load one of the older games up and use the editor. I just don't have the time to spend reading 30 pages of Theoretical Frameworks or whatever they are called just to find out how to stop players acting like children and not wanting to play anymore becuse they lose one game!! Sorry for the rant I just think FM has become a full time occupation now rather than a game.

Not being able to beat Arsenal at The Emirates is hardly indicative of an overly difficult game. It is hardly enjoyable to play the same game 25 times either. No wonder you aren't having any fun.

It is a shame you can't be bothered to read TT&F. It is, to all extents and purposes, a manual for the TC. It would have stopped your misperceptions about how mentality works and explained why giving every player in the team the same individual instructions might not be the best way to approach things.

Surely if you think you'd have the time to edit all 2011 players into their new teams, you have the time to read TT&F? It will be of far more use to you than playing the same match 25 times while fiddling randomly with sliders as well.

[Sussex Hammer]

Not being able to beat Arsenal at The Emirates is hardly indicative of an overly difficult game. It is hardly enjoyable to play the same game 25 times either. No wonder you aren't having any fun.

It is a shame you can't be bothered to read TT&F. It is, to all extents and purposes, a manual for the TC. It would have stopped your misperceptions about how mentality works and explained why giving every player in the team the same individual instructions might not be the best way to approach things.

Surely if you think you'd have the time to edit all 2011 players into their new teams, you have the time to read TT&F? It will be of far more use to you than playing the same match 25 times while fiddling randomly with sliders as well.

Was being a bit sarcastic when saying I would use the editor!! The Arsenal experiment was to just try out a few ideas on how you could as a smaller team beat them or at least get close. So I tried various formations and instructions and never got close mainly due to players hanging around waiting for the ball to be taken off them, Van Persie finding that massive gap between your centre backs, your extremely strong striker never actually holding up the ball that kind of thing. I did find that a back 5 limited Van Persies prowess purely because a third centre back slots into that grey area that two centre backs don't cover but it isn't really realistic and you lose a lot going forward. I did also find that defensive tactics are pretty useless and you are better off not playing defensive against the top teams but that's about it!!!

The TT&F as far as I can see can't be downloaded or seen or possibly I am looking in the wrong place, but anyway it is as you say "a manual for the TC" which (and I know you were very much behind it) I unfortunately just cannot get on with. I have tried and it's just my opinion but it's not for me. You start with a tactic, use shouts that again in my opinion don't work half the time and even when they do you end up using a tactic which is technically a million miles away from the one that you started with!! I have always used Classic and until the latest patch was very happy having 3 tactics which I used for different matches. Contrary to popular belief I don't give the same instructions to every player and to be honest I have always been happier fiddling with the sliders because good or bad at the end of the day it's my tactic whereas in a lot of ways the TC is always someone elses tactic.

I just think FM has come such a long way that I'll stick with the earlier games that were more to do with tactics and players rather than morale issues and team talks. If I am a plug and play manager that's obviously what I am and possibly FIFA is a better bet for me now as it's less time consuming.

I just think that FM doesn't play like real life. My successful tactics and player roles I use on a Saturday just cannot be used in FM due to the poor defending and extremely bad tracking back not to mention top class strikers pee rollering the ball wide from 5 yards. FM plays "a different way" these days and for me there is too many variables to get a result. Don't get me wrong it's a fabulous simulation in many ways but for me the fun has gone out of it. Doesn't make FM good or bad or me right or wrong that's just my personal opinion.

I've enjoyed the last ten years or so but as they say all good things come to an end.

[wwfan]

http://www.fm-britain.co.uk/tactics-ebooks/tactical-theorems-10/

Can download it from a link on the left hand side of the above linked page.

I did also fond that defensive tactics are useless and you are better off not playing defensive against the top teams but that's about it!!!

I play 90% of my match time using the Counter Strategy in the TC. There's nothing wrong with less aggressive tactics if you set them up logically. For example, when you set defensive tactics, what shape and roles do you use? How do you expect the players to reduce pressure? Just clearing the ball or trying to keep possession? How will you attack when you have the chance? What positions are key to supporting these attacks, and what ones should hold deeper to prevent the risk of the counter?

You start with a tactic, use shouts that again in my opinion don't work half the time and even when they do you end up using a tactic which is technically a million miles away from the one that you started with!! I have always used Classic and until the latest patch was very happy having 3 tactics which I used for defferent matches. Contrary to popular belief I don't give the same instructions to every player and to be honest I have always been happier fiddling with the sliders because good or bad at the end of the day it's my tactic whereas in a lot of ways the TC is someone elses tactic.

Shouts work very well if you use them logically. They can fail if you use them badly or do very little if you use them randomly. Just like every other part of the game. For example, if the pitch is massively chewed up and it is raining heavily, any of the more technical shouts will be totally useless. However, using more width, keeping the ball on the flanks, lengthening your passing and trying a few more pot shots might work very well.

The TC offers something like 2 million tactical varieties. There's no way that is anybody else's tactic. The core element it helps with is ensuring mentality structure is correct. Messing around with mentality is the best way to break a tactic.

I just think FM has come such a long way that I'll stick with the earlier games that were more to do with tactics and players rather than morale issues and team talks.

Although morale has always been important, team talks have less effect in FM12 than they ever did in any other version of FM. Tactics and players are absolutely vital in FM. Get them right and team talks and morale have very little influence. The common reason for people thinking team talks are important is their inability to read the game and change things to get things going in their favour. Because they don't do that, the team talk seems the only variable. Therefore, people assume it has far more influence than it actually does.

I just think that FM doesn't play like real life. My successful tactics and player roles I use on a Saturday just cannot be used in FM due to the poor defending and extremely bad tracking back not to mention top class strikers pee rollering the ball wide from 5 yards. FM plays "a different way" these days and for me there is too many variables. Don't get me wrong it's a fabulous simulation in many ways but for me the fun has gone out of it. Doesn't make FM good or bad or me right or wrong that's just my personal opinion.

I would think your successful Saturday tactics are either being incorrectly interpreted into the sliders or not suitable for high level football. In FM it is very noticeable how basic tactics, while succeeding at lower levels, get found at out higher ones. I would imagine tactical instructions that work well at amateur level will suffer the same problem. Professional and amateur sport are completely different ball games. Lower level players do not have the technical skills to perform specialist roles, so everything will be more generic. However, at higher levels, specialism is vital.

Not trying to be overly-critical. Only trying to push you to think about things in a different way.

[Sussex Hammer]

I appreciate the feedback but I have definitely called it a day with 12. You may well be right in all you have said and maybe that's the problem for me, it's far too in depth now as a simulation and I just don't have the time or patience to get deeply involved. I'm the guy in L.A. Noire who allocates his partner to do the driving to save time!!! It's quite possible that my Saturday tactics are not viable either of the way you say but it's far greater than that. I'm getting fed up with highly technical players getting dispossesed without even moving, tired seeing a strong Adebayor fail to get hold of a basic throw in to him nudged out of the way by a far physically inferior full back, fed up of seeing a poor decision maker in Theo Walcott seemingly find the perfect option all the time when he plays against you. Torn to shreds by Walcott and Gervinho IRL two of the worst decision makers in the game. Fed up with a flat back four being able to do the basic things in defending. The list goes on and on and it's time to say sayanora!! Do appreciate your help anyway.

ww Fan.. Just to let you know I read the TT&F. To be fair it's a good read but nothing really that you wouldn't know if you know football anyway. Great for a beginner certainly and very helpful I think if you use the TC but not much help for us Classic Managers!! I am sure though once the ME has been sorted one day so allowing defenders to defend, wide midfielders to track back, marking to work and a creative attacking midfielder to actually perform in the AM position then it will be a great help to many. Only thing I would disagree with would proably be the apparent "box" the great Brazil side of the 80's played. I grew up with that side and I'd argue it was a very fluid 4-4-2 because Zico (my favourite player ever) was a roaming striker on a free role whilst Eder was an attacking left winger but that's football, all about opinions!!!

Anyway thanks for your help in the past anyway.

[glyndav]

Sussex,

Any chance you can upload your tactic just to have a quick look at it? Who are you playing with btw?

[Sussex Hammer]

Sussex,

Any chance you can upload your tactic just to have a quick look at it? Who are you playing with btw?

I've deleted them all now. I was trying to get an old one off Filefront but the site is a nightmare now, keeps crashing and won't accept passwords so can't even get hold of an old tactic to try that!!!

Basically I was trying 4-4-2's and 4-3-3's. The one that worked well pre patch was just a basic 4-4-2 with mentalities staggered with Rule of Two I think from front to back. GK 3, CB's 5, FB's 7, that sort of thing. I then linked closing down along with creative freedom to mentality and played my defensive line on the centre back's mentality. Worked really well pre last patch. Went up from Championship and went 5th, 5th, 6th, 6th and was 4th when the new patch came out. Love 4-3-3's IRL but can't get the forward or wide men to track back in FM and that defensive diamond of a DM and two Centre Back's that is so important IRL, well they just act like baboons!!!

Used to be a great lover of global mentality for years in FM but that seems to have fallen apart as well.

I know it's a conspiracy but I reckon every time you uploaded a good tactic SI would spend the summer looking at those and tweak the ME rendering all good tactics hopeless in the next version!! Lol.

I play as West Ham BTW.

[core10]

I appreciate the feedback but I have definitely called it a day with 12. You may well be right in all you have said and maybe that's the problem for me, it's far too in depth now as a simulation and I just don't have the time or patience to get deeply involved. I'm the guy in L.A. Noire who allocates his partner to do the driving to save time!!! It's quite possible that my Saturday tactics are not viable either of the way you say but it's far greater than that. I'm getting fed up with highly technical players getting dispossesed without even moving, tired seeing a strong Adebayor fail to get hold of a basic throw in to him nudged out of the way by a far physically inferior full back, fed up of seeing a poor decision maker in Theo Walcott seemingly find the perfect option all the time when he plays against you. Torn to shreds by Walcott and Gervinho IRL two of the worst decision makers in the game. Fed up with a flat back four being able to do the basic things in defending. The list goes on and on and it's time to say sayanora!! Do appreciate your help anyway.

ww Fan.. Just to let you know I read the TT&F. To be fair it's a good read but nothing really that you wouldn't know if you know football anyway. Great for a beginner certainly and very helpful I think if you use the TC but not much help for us Classic Managers!! I am sure though once the ME has been sorted one day so allowing defenders to defend, wide midfielders to track back, marking to work and a creative attacking midfielder to actually perform in the AM position then it will be a great help to many. Only thing I would disagree with would proably be the apparent "box" the great Brazil side of the 80's played. I grew up with that side and I'd argue it was a very fluid 4-4-2 because Zico (my favourite player ever) was a roaming striker on a free role whilst Eder was an attacking left winger but that's football, all about opinions!!!

Anyway thanks for your help in the past anyway.

Have you tried using any plug and play type tactics from the tactics download section of the forum? There are several that users are having quite a bit of success with. It looks like you prefer creating your own tactics, which is great, but if you're not having success and are simply frustrated with the TC and shouts, trying a plug & play tactic may be worth it in an attempt to renew your interest in the game. Using one or multiple plug & play tactics makes the game far less time consuming and allows you to have more success than if you were to spend hundreds of hours constantly fine tuning your own tactics IMO.

I often laugh at the tactical aspect of this game when I look at the most effective and popular plug & play tactics and see that they have extreme settings that none of the so called tactical experts would recommend. Right now it looks like the best downloadable tactics have the slowest tempo, shortest passing, little to no creative freedom, and attacking mentality, and works extremely well in all weather conditions and versus all types of opposition. Doesn't make any sense to me, but that's the way it is if you look at all the anecdotal evidence within the downloadable tactic threads. Several users are winning everything year after year using these plug and play tactics.

If you have no interest in plug & play tactics and are frustrated with the TC and ME, then taking a break from the game is probably a good idea as at the end of the day it's just a game, and the only reason to play is to have fun.

[wwfan]

I often laugh at the tactical aspect of this game when I look at the most effective and popular plug & play tactics and see that they have extreme settings that none of the so called tactical experts would recommend. Right now it looks like the best downloadable tactics have the slowest tempo, shortest passing, little to no creative freedom, and attacking mentality, and works extremely well in all weather conditions and versus all types of opposition. Doesn't make any sense to me, but that's the way it is if you look at all the anecdotal evidence within the downloadable tactic threads. Several users are winning everything year after year using these plug and play tactics.

I don't really look at these tactics, but that does make a lot of sense. If you are trying to work the ball into a specific position the AI regularly fails to defend, the best way to ensure you do so often enough to win is:

1: Be attacking enough to force the team to go forward

2: Make sure the team does what they are told (no CF)

3: Make sure you don't lose possession (short passing, low tempo)

The main reason it would work is that pressing is not aggressive enough in the ME, so the team will keep possession relatively easily.