Which roles should my CM's have? (4-2-3-1)

[ACFergie86]

I put United in debt, made all my title rivals multi-billionaires. Rooney is sold to Chelsea by my receivers. I can't replace him. I finish 4th first season. City champions.

In comes Neymar. My savior. He is my attacking midfield trequadista, the tactic is all about Neymar. Everything is to accommodate him. Short passing through the middle, slow tempo, anything that makes the AM Trequadista the main man.

Here is how i line up:

-------------------------------Chicharito (Poacher)-----------------------------------

Nani (Winger - Attack) -------- Neymar (Trequadista)---------- Valencia (Winger - Attack)

------------- Carrick (DLP - Support)--------- Fletcher (Ball Winner - Defend)-------------

Overall, i am doing well so far. After a couple of months I am top of the league.

Chicharito scores nearly every game. Valencia and especially Nani are giving me loads of assists, respectable number of goals.

Neymar is doing well. He has given me a lot of 7-8 ratings and has contributed goals and assists. The odd stinker which i will put down to settling in and young age.

Only problem is my two CM's. They rarely get above 7 rating and their pass success rate is normally between 70-80% when i'm looking for two no-nonsense CM's who will be like Modric, Xavi or Scholes and give me 90% pass success without being the main man.

I am fairly reluctant to tinker with my team as they are doing so well, but do you know what roles i could give them to get better performances and pass rates out of them?

Carrick is my Deep lying playmaker, but i made Neymar my playmaker, i don't know if this has any affect?

Fletcher i can't expect much from as his passing stat is 13, but is there any way to improve his passing anyway?

Basically, what i am asking is - What roles should i give my two CM's? Remember, i am playing a short passing game through the middle. Should i play more narrow maybe? I have my width set to wide so my players would be able to spray it around more.

[wwfan]

Basically, what i am asking is - What roles should i give my two CM's? Remember, i am playing a short passing game through the middle. Should i play more narrow maybe? I have my width set to wide so my players would be able to spray it around more.

Do you not see a contradiction here?

Personally, I'd lengthen their passing and set passing focused to mixed. This will result in them having more passing options and thus be less likely to look for tricky to make passes down the middle. You could also give the wingers support duties and the FBs Attack ones, which will offer even more options wide.

All of this will free space for Neymar, so he shouldn't see any less of the ball.

[lam]

when i'm looking for two no-nonsense CM's who will be like Modric, Xavi or Scholes and give me 90% pass success without being the main man.

If you are scoring as you are then you will get a 90% pass completion rate by tinkering with your tactics. You do not need to sign better players as they are more likely to spread the ball away from Neymar.

You might consider pushing Carrick up a little from a DLP which, if i recall correctly, sits deeper than your BW. I'd move him to a CM support. A DLP plays a lot of through balls where I assume you want him to pass to Neymar a little more?

One question........ what happens when Neymar gets injured?./....... because he will at some point

Fletcher i can't expect much from as his passing stat is 13, but is there any way to improve his passing anyway?

Training? Have you tried it? You need more attacking training for him and I'd also suggest "focus" training (on left of screen) on heavy for passing.

I have Sandro is my team, who's passing is now 14, but when it was 12, he was the 2nd highest pass completion in the team. Pass completion isnt just about their passing ability, it's more about what type of passses they try. Sandro had rare throughballs, he had a PPM of 'players a simple passing game'. So he just sat back and provided support for the rest of the team if they were under pressure.

I think the issue you may have is that Fletch is probably more advanced on the field that Carrick, therefore is your main outlet for passing through the middle. Make the change to Carricks as I suggest and I bet the pass completion ratio on Fletch improves.

Regards

LAM

[Cleon]

One question........ what happens when Neymar gets injured?./....... because he will at some point

10 years for me and he's only had 1 injury, so dont count on it

[dribbler]

I like Carrick as a DLP but because he's a good passer with low flair (last time I looked anyway) I'd put him on direct passing. With a bit of luck he'll try more adventurous passes and you're using his skills better. Does Fletcher have very high stamina in your game? If so you could try him as a box-to-box midfielder. This would sometimes give your other players an extra passing option in attack but with the possible downside of risking a bit more in defence.

You don't need to play the same way all the time. I like looking at my opponents formation before I decide who is my playmaker. If they're playing narrow then "exploit the flanks" and make one of your wingers playmaker maybe? If they're playing a DMC then you'd be even more likely to choose somebody else. Neymar will see less of the ball but tell him to leg it into the penalty area and he'll get more goals. And if they're playing 4-4-2 Neymar is the ideal playmaker. Or you can start every game using Neymar as playmaker but change it part-way through the match if things aren't working out. That's what I reckon anyway.

Do you have all your AM's on free roles (roaming)?

[jimbobBRFC]

If it itsnt really broken dont try to fix it, thats all I have to say. If your playing well why start tinkering?

On the other hand im a sucker for this myself, always get the tinkerman emails in game.

[ACFergie86]

Thank you everyone for your help. I really appreciate it. I will respond to all.

Do you not see a contradiction here?

Personally, I'd lengthen their passing and set passing focused to mixed. This will result in them having more passing options and thus be less likely to look for tricky to make passes down the middle. You could also give the wingers support duties and the FBs Attack ones, which will offer even more options wide.

All of this will free space for Neymar, so he shouldn't see any less of the ball.

I'm probably misunderstanding the "Short pass" rule to be honest. My imagination of it is playing a Barcelona type way where the players just keep the ball until space opens up. When you say lengthen their passing and set to mixed, do you mean the two CM's or the entire team? Thanks for your help!

If you are scoring as you are then you will get a 90% pass completion rate by tinkering with your tactics. You do not need to sign better players as they are more likely to spread the ball away from Neymar.

You might consider pushing Carrick up a little from a DLP which, if i recall correctly, sits deeper than your BW. I'd move him to a CM support. A DLP plays a lot of through balls where I assume you want him to pass to Neymar a little more?

One question........ what happens when Neymar gets injured?./....... because he will at some point

Training? Have you tried it? You need more attacking training for him and I'd also suggest "focus" training (on left of screen) on heavy for passing.

I have Sandro is my team, who's passing is now 14, but when it was 12, he was the 2nd highest pass completion in the team. Pass completion isnt just about their passing ability, it's more about what type of passses they try. Sandro had rare throughballs, he had a PPM of 'players a simple passing game'. So he just sat back and provided support for the rest of the team if they were under pressure.

I think the issue you may have is that Fletch is probably more advanced on the field that Carrick, therefore is your main outlet for passing through the middle. Make the change to Carricks as I suggest and I bet the pass completion ratio on Fletch improves.

Regards

LAM

Yeah, i am tinkering little things here and there in my home matches against teams i should be beating whatever my tactic. I once (vs Lille at home) set my width to narrow in order to get more possesion and a better pass rate. This was successful but i lost the match 1-0 I tinkered with my tactic in every half during the friendlies, so i am happy to do so. I will try your suggestion to play Carrick as CM support. I did try this with Giggs once but his pass success didn't really improve. I agree it's best to keep Fletch as he is as i need a defensive minded midfielder to balance my squad and Fletcher has all the perfect attributes for that role. However, do you think it might be an idea to do Carrick as DLP defend rather than support and Fletcher as ball winner support rather than defend? Or would that not really help?

Yeah i have set training focus to many of my players. I don't know why i never thought to improve Fletchers passing. Thanks.

Well that's the key question. I have spent all my money on Neymar and because money is so dry, i have made sure all my youth facilities are top notch. Therefore, i hope to produce one. For now i am trying to train Berbatov to be an AM as he has all the key attributes for a Trequadista and would be perfect back-up. Thank you for your help!

I like Carrick as a DLP but because he's a good passer with low flair (last time I looked anyway) I'd put him on direct passing. With a bit of luck he'll try more adventurous passes and you're using his skills better. Does Fletcher have very high stamina in your game? If so you could try him as a box-to-box midfielder. This would sometimes give your other players an extra passing option in attack but with the possible downside of risking a bit more in defence.

You don't need to play the same way all the time. I like looking at my opponents formation before I decide who is my playmaker. If they're playing narrow then "exploit the flanks" and make one of your wingers playmaker maybe? If they're playing a DMC then you'd be even more likely to choose somebody else. Neymar will see less of the ball but tell him to leg it into the penalty area and he'll get more goals. And if they're playing 4-4-2 Neymar is the ideal playmaker. Or you can start every game using Neymar as playmaker but change it part-way through the match if things aren't working out. That's what I reckon anyway.

Do you have all your AM's on free roles (roaming)?

Yeah, i think i'll tinker with that. Making Carricks individual passing set to direct. Or Maybe mixed?

Haha, funny you should ask. As part of my "man united challenge" Fletcher was one of the players I gave an injury to (along with vidic, anderson, cleverley, fabio etc). A year long one at that (as in real life) and i only have him back now, so his stamina has kind of faltered in that period.

I think i checked out his stats for Box to Box Midfielder and they weren't perfect, but i'll def give it a chance when i next get a home match i should win.

I did think about using a playmaker winger. Since his return, Nani has made assist after assist and i thought about letting him do it. Have you had success using a winger playmaker?

I thought about maybe putting Neymar up front and using his as a deep lying forward in support of Chicharito. Somebody said they had a lot of success using that stategy. I'll probably tinker with that too. Thanks for your help!

[ACFergie86]

If it itsnt really broken dont try to fix it, thats all I have to say. If your playing well why start tinkering?

On the other hand im a sucker for this myself, always get the tinkerman emails in game.

I do agree, definitely. I try telling myself not to tinker, but i'm so determined to create the ultimate tactic that i can't help myself. I've only ever played FM by downloading somebody else's tactic and winning that way feels empty. If i do it using my own formation, it will feel like i've actually done it myself.

I only tinker in games at home against bottom half clubs. It gives me a bit of room for error. For example, if i am 2-0 up at half time, i can tinker a bit and if i let one in, then i can go back to my proven strategy to see the game out.

[jimbobBRFC]

I do agree, definitely. I try telling myself not to tinker, but i'm so determined to create the ultimate tactic that i can't help myself. I've only ever played FM by downloading somebody else's tactic and winning that way feels empty. If i do it using my own formation, it will feel like i've actually done it myself.

I only tinker in games at home against bottom half clubs. It gives me a bit of room for error. For example, if i am 2-0 up at half time, i can tinker a bit and if i let one in, then i can go back to my proven strategy to see the game out.

Yeah I do the same, only really try anything radical when Im coasting are against weaker opposition. Although if during the game they arnt playing how I like I do change things, majority of the time it does work, but when it goes bad oooo it goes real bad.

[dribbler]

"Have you had success using a winger playmaker?"

so far as I know playmaker in the team instructions is just a player you'd like the ball to go to a lot...it makes perfect sense to use a great creative player like Neymar but it also makes sense to route it to somebody who's in space...choices, choices

yeah it seems to work fine with a winger even when both teams are playing 4-4-2...he just sees more of the ball than he would otherwise...if I have a fast player and he's up against somebody slow...(you know the rest)

[dribbler]

"Making Carricks individual passing set to direct. Or Maybe mixed?"

this will reduce his passing percentage of course...he can see great passes but he usually chooses to play something safe..."safe" isn't the same as short of course but I reckon he'll do lots of short safe passes and ignore adventurous passes...if you tell him to pass direct maybe the end result will be mixed because your instructions and his own natural tendencies will differ...he won't follow your instructions like a robot

the big question is will he play better or worse?...are you telling him something he's bad at?...well no you're not as I explained...are you telling him to do something he doesn't like?...well yes you are

So I'm not certain this is a good idea but I tried it with Palombo (who's a Carrick who can tackle) and he played decently well

[dribbler]

"I did think about using a playmaker winger. Since his return, Nani has made assist after assist and i thought about letting him do it."

If he's playing well it might not be a good idea...this sounds daft but it's possible he'll be getting the ball earlier, become more involved in the build up play and when he receives the ball he'll be in less threatening positions and end up being a less dangerous player

these things are always potentially tricky and you're unlikely to find a right and a wrong answer

[silten]

I've come a bit late to this thread, but I'd try switching Fletcher to BWM - Support and Carrick to DLP - Defend. This will put Fletcher closer to the attacking players, giving him more short lay off options when he wins the ball. Carrick further back will have more space to time his more ambitious passes better.

[ACFergie86]

"Have you had success using a winger playmaker?"

so far as I know playmaker in the team instructions is just a player you'd like the ball to go to a lot...it makes perfect sense to use a great creative player like Neymar but it also makes sense to route it to somebody who's in space...choices, choices

yeah it seems to work fine with a winger even when both teams are playing 4-4-2...he just sees more of the ball than he would otherwise...if I have a fast player and he's up against somebody slow...(you know the rest)

Okay sweet. When i get an easier match i will begin to play around with different playmakers. I think i'll stick to neymar if they play without a DM, as he will have more freedom. If they play with one, i will test out using my wingers, or maybe even playing without.

"Making Carricks individual passing set to direct. Or Maybe mixed?"

this will reduce his passing percentage of course...he can see great passes but he usually chooses to play something safe..."safe" isn't the same as short of course but I reckon he'll do lots of short safe passes and ignore adventurous passes...if you tell him to pass direct maybe the end result will be mixed because your instructions and his own natural tendencies will differ...he won't follow your instructions like a robot

the big question is will he play better or worse?...are you telling him something he's bad at?...well no you're not as I explained...are you telling him to do something he doesn't like?...well yes you are

So I'm not certain this is a good idea but I tried it with Palombo (who's a Carrick who can tackle) and he played decently well

I will test out a few things. As it's been said, i'm playing well overall so it isn't drastic. I'll probably set him to a more direct passing and see how he gets on.

"I did think about using a playmaker winger. Since his return, Nani has made assist after assist and i thought about letting him do it."

If he's playing well it might not be a good idea...this sounds daft but it's possible he'll be getting the ball earlier, become more involved in the build up play and when he receives the ball he'll be in less threatening positions and end up being a less dangerous player

these things are always potentially tricky and you're unlikely to find a right and a wrong answer

Good point. If it's not broke...

I've come a bit late to this thread, but I'd try switching Fletcher to BWM - Support and Carrick to DLP - Defend. This will put Fletcher closer to the attacking players, giving him more short lay off options when he wins the ball. Carrick further back will have more space to time his more ambitious passes better.

Never too late, i welcome any help. I did think about that. Have you ever tried that? thanks.

[silten]

Never too late, i welcome any help. I did think about that. Have you ever tried that? thanks.

I have in the past. I don't like having the Ball Winner as the last man in midfield as he's going to be closing down heavily and making challenges that a quality player will eventually evade and get by. For me, it's better if the challenge is attempted early, further up the pitch, if it fails there's another midfielder ready to occupy the space and slow the opposition attack.

[LlamaZA]

Shorter passing = greater pass completion (in general)

As far as I recall, the DLP has more direct passing options and tries through balls (which will count as passes).

I'd make Carrick either a DLP(d) or CM(d) to get his mentality down and play more safer passes and perhaps shorten his passing range.

[ACFergie86]

I've come a bit late to this thread, but I'd try switching Fletcher to BWM - Support and Carrick to DLP - Defend. This will put Fletcher closer to the attacking players, giving him more short lay off options when he wins the ball. Carrick further back will have more space to time his more ambitious passes better.

I took your advice and saw an immediate difference. Vs Blackburn at home Carrick and Fletcher both got 90% pass rate and much higher ratings. (carrick had 100% in first half)

I'm going to stick with this for now. Thanks.

[dribbler]

I have in the past. I don't like having the Ball Winner as the last man in midfield as he's going to be closing down heavily and making challenges that a quality player will eventually evade and get by. For me, it's better if the challenge is attempted early, further up the pitch, if it fails there's another midfielder ready to occupy the space and slow the opposition attack.

That's an interesting idea silten...thanks

[dribbler]

Shorter passing = greater pass completion (in general)

As far as I recall, the DLP has more direct passing options and tries through balls (which will count as passes).

I'd make Carrick either a DLP(d) or CM(d) to get his mentality down and play more safer passes and perhaps shorten his passing range.

I may have said something wrong for which I apologise. BWM has short passing and DLP has mixed passing. Either way Carrick might be more effective with his passing set to direct.

[LlamaZA]

I may have said something wrong for which I apologise. BWM has short passing and DLP has mixed passing. Either way Carrick might be more effective with his passing set to direct.

He may be more effective, but his pass completion would fall.

[dribbler]

He may be more effective, but his pass completion would fall.

yeah i said that too