slow tempo and direct passing

[cressers]

how does the players and team interpret this ?

As my understanding is that they are conflicting messages

[jimbobBRFC]

Yeah they are pretty conflicting insturctions. A slow tempo is usually associated with short passing, this will cause your players to take their time and pick the right pass. A direct style is usually associated with a quick tempo and is usually used for countering stronger opposition or playing in a similar fashion to Stoke. Quickly get the ball up to a big strong front man who can hold up the ball.

I suppose slow tempo and direct pasing would make your players take their time and pick a pass but have the option to pick a long pass. Direct passing wont mean your players will only pick long balls, it simply means they will be more incline to hit it long but still play a short pass if it's the better option.

Hope that makes some sort of sense

[däkkä]

If fast tempo encourages 1. forward passes and direct passing encourages 1. forward passes and 2. passes of longer distance, shouldn't slow tempo + direct passing result in a more patient passing game? Direct passing tells players to play more forward passes but slow tempo is telling them to play less forward passes. Shouldn't this result in your players using the width of the field better? You allow them to consider all passing options, but stress that you don't want them to play it forward in every possible opportunity.

[jimbobBRFC]

If fast tempo encourages 1. forward passes and direct passing encourages 1. forward passes and 2. passes of longer distance, shouldn't slow tempo + direct passing result in a more patient passing game? Direct passing tells players to play more forward passes but slow tempo is telling them to play less forward passes. Shouldn't this result in your players using the width of the field better? You allow them to consider all passing options, but stress that you don't want them to play it forward in every possible opportunity.

Now I would say Direct passing would make them more inclined to play a forward pass. Short passing and slow tempo will make them use the width of the pitch and take their time with the ball. Thats how I see it anyway

[däkkä]

Yes, but tempo affects that inclination as well. Since tempo doesn't affect passing range, I think it can be used to modify the passing direction. I think I'm going to put this theory to practice against a narrow or 10-man opponent some time soon. It mightn't work, but the way I see tempo and passing, it should force the opponent to move laterally, wear them down whilst my team lets the ball do the work and eventually it should open gaps.

Slow tempo + short passing definitely does not take full use of the width of the pitch. It is more narrow and if you manually alter the width, team mates won't be within each other's passing range.

[Cleon]

Wow so much confusion for something so simple.

Tempo is the speed and urgency the team plays. So a slow tempo game would mean the players take longer to make a decision rather than rush their decision. In theory the slower you play the less mistakes you should see happen (it's not always that simpe though). The faster you play then the more mistakes and less accurate you might see especially if the players are not technical enough and mentally strong enough.

Direct passing means you'll look to make more forward passes (not long balls) from deeper positions.

The two are not contradictory or conflicting at all.

An jimbo you seem to be right in one sense but then in the other say something that doesn't make sense or is simply not true, I'm confused by you

Slow tempo + short passing definitely does not take full use of the width of the pitch. It is more narrow and if you manually alter the width, team mates won't be within each other's passing range.

Yeah I'm not sure why he claimed that either as what he as actually said is contradictory and makes no logical sense whatsoever.

[däkkä]

Wow so much confusion for something so simple.

Tempo is the speed and urgency the team plays. So a slow tempo game would mean the players take longer to make a decision rather than rush their decision. In theory the slower you play the less mistakes you should see happen (it's not always that simpe though). The faster you play then the more mistakes and less accurate you might see especially if the players are not technical enough and mentally strong enough.

Direct passing means you'll look to make more forward passes (not long balls) from deeper positions.

Do you think passing is just a direction modifier and not range? I think it would be quite redundant if it were so. I would like your opinion on that.

Do you think slow tempo + expansive (direct is a bit misleading in this context) passing would make my team pass the ball laterally more than with high tempo or than with short passing? Would this work?

[Cleon]

Do you think passing is just a direction modifier and not range? I think it would be quite redundant if it were so. I would like your opinion on that.

Do you think slow tempo + expansive (direct is a bit misleading in this context) passing would make my team pass the ball laterally more than with high tempo or than with short passing? Would this work?

Passing is a range modifier. Mentality will determine the direction.

Mentality

Mentality directly affects a player’s position on the field. His set position on the tactical pitch display is where he will line up as a base default, but depending on the mentality set he may be more restrained or cavalier in his approach. The slider ranges from Ultra Defensive to All Out Attacking. The further right the slider is set, the more aggressive your players will play positionally and more ambitious they may be when passing the ball (a more aggressive mentality will result in more forward passes).

Different passing styles are good though for trying to create space and movement and allows a 'much broader' game due to not limiting the players to just 1 style of passing.

[däkkä]

Passing is a range modifier. Mentality will determine the direction.

Direct passing means you'll look to make more forward passes (not long balls) from deeper positions.

I'm confused.

[jimbobBRFC]

Wow so much confusion for something so simple.

Tempo is the speed and urgency the team plays. So a slow tempo game would mean the players take longer to make a decision rather than rush their decision. In theory the slower you play the less mistakes you should see happen (it's not always that simpe though). The faster you play then the more mistakes and less accurate you might see especially if the players are not technical enough and mentally strong enough.

Direct passing means you'll look to make more forward passes (not long balls) from deeper positions.

The two are not contradictory or conflicting at all.

An jimbo you seem to be right in one sense but then in the other say something that doesn't make sense or is simply not true, I'm confused by you

Yeah I'm not sure why he claimed that either as what he as actually said is contradictory and makes no logical sense whatsoever.

What am I saying that isnt true, because I am now equally confused

What your saying makes sense I think Cleon, passing determines the length mentality determines direction tempo determins speed, that seems about right, and summed up in four lines.

Where've you been anyway Cleon not seen you around the forums in a while

[Cleon]

I'm confused.

Due to having a greater range than short passing means if your MC see's that the AMC higher up the pitch is free, then he'll be considered as an option. Where as, on a shorter passing style he might not be considered due to you instructing the player to play short passing.

What's confusing?

[Cleon]

What am I saying that isnt true, because I am now equally confused

What your saying makes sense I think Cleon, passing determines the length mentality determines direction tempo determins speed, that seems about right, and summed up in four lines.

Where've you been anyway Cleon not seen you around the forums in a while

Maternity leave

And yeah I guess you could in short sum it up as passing determines length, mentality influences direction and tempo determines the speed.

[jimbobBRFC]

Maternity leave

And yeah I guess you could in short sum it up as passing determines length, mentality influences direction and tempo determines the speed.

Ahhhh i there a congratulations in order then ? :D

ha hopefully thats simplified things a little bit

[Cleon]

Ahhhh i there a congratulations in order then ? :D

ha hopefully thats simplified things a little bit

Like 17 days ago

Notice how I said influences for mentality though. That's because your players will still do shorter passes and backward ones. But the mentality can influence how frequent this occurs combined with the players actual attributes of course.

[jimbobBRFC]

Like 17 days ago

Notice how I said influences for mentality though. That's because your players will still do shorter passes and backward ones. But the mentality can influence how frequent this occurs combined with the players actual attributes of course.

Congratulations then, hope all is well

Simple as that dakka

[däkkä]

Due to having a greater range than short passing means if your MC see's that the AMC higher up the pitch is free, then he'll be considered as an option. Where as, on a shorter passing style he might not be considered due to you instructing the player to play short passing.

What's confusing?

I guess it means passing does affect direction but only indirectly, which makes sense in a way.

However, the word 'direct' itself does denote a higher probability of a forward pass so it seems weird that that name would take indirect causation into consideration rather than directly cause this directness. Also, it seems weird that one would give a limited defender (direct passing) more options than a ball-playing defender (mixed passing), for example. Does it really make sense to tell the worst, most uncreative and uncomposed defender to play the most expansive passing game? I have always believed passing to influence direction as well and TC supports this. I've argued this in the past. I don't think more direct passing actually increases passing options but simply encourages certain ones. Although this might be a bit too technical I reckon that in essence this means that direction is at least to some extent governed directly by the passing instruction.

But thanks, I've got now enough information to try my idea out. (Neutral mentality, direct passing, width, deep d-line, slow tempo, reduced TTB)

[Cleon]

I guess it means passing does affect direction but only indirectly, which makes sense. The word 'direct' itself does denote a higher probability of a forward pass so it seems weird that that name would take indirect causation into consideration rather than directly cause this directness. And it seems weird that one would give a limited defender (direct passing) more options than a ball-playing defender (mixed passing), for example. I have always believed passing to influence direction as well and I've argued this in the past, but it's so technical there's really no need for it.

But thanks, I've got now enough information to try my idea out. (Neutral mentality, direct passing, width, slow tempo, reduced TTB)

Direct passing wouldn't give him more options than someone on mixed passing you've either not read what I wrote or are still confused. Mixed passing would be the best to use if you want him to do all different types of passing rather than be limited with one particular style.

I used the shorter passing and direct scenario in my example to you above to highlight the difference and not mixed.

Mentality and players attributes determine the direction above all else.

[däkkä]

So a limited defender considers playing the ball forward as his primary option simply due to his passing instruction.

Direct passing wouldn't give him more options than someone on mixed passing you've either not read what I wrote or are still confused. Mixed passing would be the best to use if you want him to do all different types of passing rather than be limited with one particular style.

I think you were simply confused by my bad phrasing It was a hypothetical. "And it seems weird that one would give a limited defender (direct passing) more options than a ball-playing defender (mixed passing)". Seems like you are the confused one really. I don't actually believe direct passing to give more options.

[Cleon]

So a limited defender considers playing the ball forward as his primary option simply due to his passing instruction.

Yups and the low creative freedom. The limited defender is set up to spend as little time on the ball as possible.

[Sussex Hammer]

Just to throw a spanner in the works does every real life team on the planet not play "mixed passing"? with the exception of Barca of course!!!

[Cleon]

Just to throw a spanner in the works does every real life team on the planet not play "mixed passing"? with the exception of Barca of course!!!

Barca play mixed too, it's not all short fancy stuff.

[däkkä]

Yeah, Mascherano and Xavi play a lot of long balls (not hoofing it up, usually they're targeted to wingers who usually are free on the opposite flank), probably most in La Liga. Those kind of passes players in FM never play when they have short passing.

[Sussex Hammer]

Barca play mixed too, it's not all short fancy stuff.

So is not mixed the best way to play? Certainly from a starting point in a match anyway. In recent FM's I always had my best success with playing the first notch of mixed passing and tempo but not so much with FM12. Walked the Championship using the "last" notch of mixed passing and tempo but didn't do too well with it in the Premiership, probably due to the fact that my plyers were suddenly at the lower end of the scale.

[Cleon]

Yeah, Mascherano and Xavi play a lot of long balls, probably most in La Liga. Those kind of passes players in FM never play when they have short passing.

Indeed which is why all creative players should be given mixed imo.

So is not mixed the best way to play? Certainly from a starting point in a match anyway. In recent FM's I always had my best success with playing the first notch of mixed passing and tempo but not so much with FM12. Walked the Championship using the "last" notch of mixed passing and tempo but didn't do too well with it in the Premiership, probably due to the fact that my plyers were suddenly at the lower end of the scale.

Yes and no. If you leave it mixed you're allowing the player to choose the types he attempts the most. If the player is good enough to do different types of passes and is creative enough then it makes sense to allow them to do that and play mixed.

I only limit the type of passing a player does if I want him to play a specific way and involve a certain player.

[jimbobBRFC]

Indeed which is why all creative players should be given mixed imo.

Yes and no. If you leave it mixed you're allowing the player to choose the types he attempts the most. If the player is good enough to do different types of passes and is creative enough then it makes sense to allow them to do that and play mixed.

I only limit the type of passing a player does if I want him to play a specific way and involve a certain player.

Exactly the approach I take Cleon. Give the majority of my players mixed passing so they have the option, usually apart from my Keeper if I want to retain possesion and my DM destroyer who is techincally poor and I just want to pass the ball to a more technically brilliant teammate

[Sussex Hammer]

But what about say centre backs? Doesnt short passing limit them? Ok you dont want them spraying balls all over the park but at the same time if they are being closed down we would prefer a punt into row z rather than an intricate short pass to his partner or someone close by??

[jimbobBRFC]

But what about say centre backs? Doesnt short passing limit them? Ok you dont want them spraying balls all over the park but at the same time if they are being closed down we would prefer a punt into row z rather than an intricate short pass to his partner or someone close by??

Yeah I know what your saying, thats why I would use mixed for most of my team so they can make the right decision. If I had a DC with high enough Composure, decisions and technical ability I would prefer him to play the shorter pass rather than concede possesion, but most of my teams have mixed passers throughout the team

[Cleon]

But what about say centre backs? Doesnt short passing limit them? Ok you dont want them spraying balls all over the park but at the same time if they are being closed down we would prefer a punt into row z rather than an intricate short pass to his partner or someone close by??

I'd base this on the players composure and decision ability and take it from there in how you'd want him to play.

[Tactikzz]

Direct passing is my favourite of the passing ranges, especially in the attacking half.

I like to see my creative players looking forward when they receive the ball, using their attacking intent. It just seems to add a little 'oomph' to our attacking play. Like Cleon said earlier up the page, you can play a slow tempo direct game. There are many misconceptions that direct is 'hoof ball', when it's not that at all. Near to 'long' would indicate this, but a direct passing game is far from hitting long balls. A direct passing game can be just as beautiful as a short passing game, as you try to hit vertical balls, along the ground, to split apart opposition defences.

[Cleon]

Direct passing is my favourite of the passing ranges, especially in the attacking half.

I like to see my creative players looking forward when they receive the ball, using their attacking intent. It just seems to add a little 'oomph' to our attacking play. Like Cleon said earlier up the page, you can play a slow tempo direct game. There are many misconceptions that direct is 'hoof ball', when it's not that at all. Near to 'long' would indicate this, but a direct passing game is far from hitting long balls. A direct passing game can be just as beautiful as a short passing game, as you try to hit vertical balls, along the ground, to split apart opposition defences.

Direct play can be awesome. I like to play this way if I'm the under dog.

And yes I also believe that people associate direct with hoof the ball. A direct pass can also be very short but it can also be very long. Some users don't seem to grasp this bit

[däkkä]

A direct pass can also be very short but it can also be very long.

Didn't you just say passing slider doesn't affect direction but only range? Then surely a "direct pass" can not be short as your own definition of a "direct pass" is that it contrasts in range with a "short pass". A short pass in a direct passing tactic should be an anomaly then.

[Cleon]

Didn't you just say passing slider doesn't affect direction but only range? Then surely a "direct pass" can not be short as your own definition of a "direct pass" is that it contrasts in range with a "short pass". A short pass in a direct passing tactic should be an anomaly then.

There are different ranges of direct though, hence why the passing slider is on a a scale of 1-20.

Not once did I mention direction.

You're looking for something that isn't there in my posts.

[däkkä]

A direct pass can also be very short but it can also be very long.

So does this mean "very short" for a direct pass or "very short" for a pass in general? Or do you mean that a pass in a direct passing style can sometimes be very short? In which case this is purely semantical, as for me that "direct pass" wouldn't really be direct or in any way typical for direct passing style.

I don't see how a direct pass can be short if it's supposed to be... not short, by your own definition. That's all

[Cleon]

So does this mean "very short" for a direct pass or "very short" for a pass in general? Or do you mean that a pass in a direct passing style can sometimes be very short? In which case this is purely semantical, as for me that "direct pass" wouldn't really be direct or in any way typical for direct passing style.

I don't see how a direct pass can be short if it's supposed to be... not short, by your own definition. That's all

Short for a direct pass, but it would still be longer than a short pass should be.

You have to take into account there are many stages of short passing, direct and long for example

[däkkä]

Short for a direct pass, but it would still be longer than a short pass should be.

You have to take into account there are many stages of short passing, direct and long for example

Ok, I get it. Maybe it should've been obvious from the context but I just wanted to be 100% clear

[Cleon]

Ok, I get it. Maybe it should've been obvious from the context but I just wanted to be 100% clear

No worries

[Farrell85]

Cleon, you think that the mentality of the team determines the direction of the pass regardless of the setting of tempo and waste of time?

[Miek]

As I don't want to start a new thread I'll ask my question here:

I know what tempo is, what it does and its implications. What I don't know is which level of tempo to use on a match day. When should you lower or push up the tempo? When you're playing away from home lower tempo or higher? Lower or higher against big teams?

[Al_Pacino]

Would creative freedom also not determine how a player passes the ball? If you had your entire team playing slow tempo/short passing, but have your two most creative midfielders (for example) on very high CF, would they be inclined to play the Xavi type long pass out to the winger in space (even if their passing was set to the same as the rest of the team)?

[jimbobBRFC]

As I don't want to start a new thread I'll ask my question here:

I know what tempo is, what it does and its implications. What I don't know is which level of tempo to use on a match day. When should you lower or push up the tempo? When you're playing away from home lower tempo or higher? Lower or higher against big teams?

Again it depends how you want your team to play. If you are playing a better team then a quicker tempo would probably be better so the ball is moved forward quickly to catch them out of position as they will probably have a lot of players forward attacking you. Vica versa with a weaker team, they are probably going to sit back against you and soak up the pressure. So you want to keep the tempo slow and build the play up slowly so, if you just moved it into the box quickly the opposition will just clear most of it, your team needs to be patient.

That said if you find yourself against a team who you should be beating, your dominating them but not creating anything upping the tempo a little bit will create that urgency within the team and they will try to move the ball forward a little quicker. This is useful when you need a win, should be winning but arnt winning.

Would creative freedom also not determine how a player passes the ball? If you had your entire team playing slow tempo/short passing, but have your two most creative midfielders (for example) on very high CF, would they be inclined to play the Xavi type long pass out to the winger in space (even if their passing was set to the same as the rest of the team)?

Creative Freedom gives the player the opportunity to do whatever they want to in essence yes it would determine how they pass the ball. A player with low CF and Short passing would always play a short pass and not try anything "hollywood". If you upped his Creative Freedom he would still try to play passes but if he sees a "hollywood" long ball over the defence and thinks he can pull it off he will be more inclined to try it.

Hope that makes snese

[ZdlR]

I think this is how passing works.

[jimbobBRFC]

I think this is how passing works.

I have honestly just had to read that about four times. Really in depth there Zdlr haha

[ZdlR]

I have honestly just had to read that about four times. Really in depth there Zdlr haha

Not sure if serious. Just in case, I'll point out that it's a link

[Al_Pacino]

Made sense, thank you