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Confused by Tactic Creator settings for Poacher, can someone clarify??


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Been trawling the net for ideas for striker partnerships and kept coming across various views and ideas. One of them however has caused me some confusion. With regard to a Poacher probably 70 odd % of views I read suggested playing a poacher with rare runs from deep. The idea being I suspect is that with an attacking mentality he should be up there in the box anyway as that is where you want him, which is logical. I checked it out on the Tactic Creator and it has a Poacher down as having an attacking mentality with runs from deep often and run with ball often which is in direct opposition to seemingly an awful lot of views.

In some ways I suspect it depends on what you see as a poacher. Gary Lineker hardly ran with the ball and was pretty much in and around the box at all times whereas Michael Owen would certainly in his early years run with a ball at his feet from deep quite a lot, *(Argentina 1998!!)

So can someone clarify this as it is very confusing that the TC says one thing but a majority of the views I looked at say another?

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I guess it all depends on your preference. I usually use the TC poacher set "as is" but to qualify that statement, I always have good quality strikers. I guess it depends on your striker and what you want them to do. I do agree that certain strikers, ie Inzaghi, weren't ever going to be the type to dribble past 8 players and put the thing in the net. But with run from deep often and run with ball often that doesn't necessarily mean you're looking to get your striker to pull a Neymar every time he gets the ball.

I may be off-base with this, but I personally like to have runs from deep often on a poacher, because I believe it's an instruction that affects him without the ball. With it on often, it encourages a striker to make attacking runs at the defensive line, without the ball, so by having it on often, it means my striker is darting at the line, hopefully hitting it at full speed just as a through ball is played for him to run onto, catching the defenders off-guard and giving him a chance to score.

As for runs with the ball, even if he's not a great dribbler, I still want my poacher running with the ball. If my poacher gets the ball on the edge of the 18 yard box, I don't want him passing it to my midfielder with 9 finishing, I want him to try and get past that defender and shoot, even if his dribbling sucks. If he gets the ball with 10 yards of space in front of him, I want him to take that ball and run into it, even if his dribbling sucks, I don't want him trying to play a through ball for someone else, or passing it off to a midfielder, he can make that choice once a defender shuts him down, because by running into that space with the ball, someone has to come shut him down, which opens a space somewhere else. So for these reasons, i leave it on often.

Anyways thats how I envisage the instructions and it seems to do ok for me.

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Poacher, or when I was at school, goal hanger! I agree totaly with Seule and use that with many of my tactics. I fell the runs from deep helps to push him forward as you start an attack and run with ball, while I dont expext the long dribbles of Ronaldo, it does help him hang on to the ball a bit more often. I did have a tactic with just one up front and I designed him to be as greedy as possible as he had all the right attributes for the job, so no crossing or through balls and run with ball often and run from deep often were the instructions for him, worked a treat.

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Yeah both Seule and qqq are right but i'd add something onto those. The player's attributes on an individual level. The TC will define a poacher in a general sense, it is up to you to format those settings to your specific player. As mentioned it probably helps to look at individual players in real. Van Nistelrooy, Owen and Inzaghi. All poachers in a sense but different in their approach to the game. As mentioned Owen would run from deep with great dribbling, pace, agility and score with his finishing and composure. Van Nistelrooy more of a sit in the box and use his physical presence to boss the area and knock it in. Inzaghi used his great movement and awareness to beat players. Suit your individual settings to the player and their attributes. Perhaps if you posted a screenshot of the player you're trying to use the settings for it could help us?

Take into account other players on your team as well. If you're playing with two central midfielders with poor creativity, passing, decisions, technique, anticipation etc etc then they won't be good passers of the ball therefore you'll want your poacher to come deep so you can actually use him instead of him chasing a pass he will never get to. However if you have fantastic creativity and great passers in your supporting roles (not necessarily 'support duty' but midfielders, wingers) then you can just tell him to save his energy, play the width of the box and use his movement and anticipation to get on the end of some fantastic passes.

Like I say, would be helpful to see a screenshot of your player. Best of luck :thup:

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I think there's some confusion as to what "Run from Deep" actually means, as the wording isn't great. Those 70% who suggested RFD rarely on a poacher probably think RFD often means "stay deep and make forward runs from there". It doesn't - what it means is simply "make forward runs".

So, if you want your poacher on the shoulder of the last defender, making runs off the ball, it should be set to "often". If you want him dropping deep, it should be "rarely". These both work in combination with mentality, of course.

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I must confess some of the wording in FM could be far better. "Drop deep" and "Stay up top" would be more easy to understand I guess. On the TC under "Contain" you had all of the back line with Direct passing which if you think of direct passing as a Sam Allardyce type of passing it is baffling as to why in a contain strategy you would have defenders lumping it forward willy nilly. But I suspect direct may not mean "direct" if you see what I mean.

I have to be honest, bar the centre backs and goalkeeper I always have my players pretty much on "mixed" for everything unless one particularly excels in one area such as dribbling. I also do wonder on whether creative freedom has a massive influence on uindividual settings as well but that is another discussion.

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I cannot for the life of me understand why SI changed the term. It used to be called "Forward Runs" which is exactly what it is, if set it makes the player go forward ahead of his starting position, so if you set a midfielder to high he will get forward whenever possible into attacking positions and a striker with a high setting for this will basically get forward and try and break the offside trap and play on the defensive line. If you want the striker to pick the ball up deep and run forward then you actually want this set to rarely.

So basically "Run from deep" used to be called "Forward runs" but SI changed it to the former to make it more confusing.

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I have to be honest, bar the centre backs and goalkeeper I always have my players pretty much on "mixed" for everything unless one particularly excels in one area such as dribbling. I also do wonder on whether creative freedom has a massive influence on uindividual settings as well but that is another discussion.

Creative Freedom, as far as I am concerned, is the extent to which the player deviates from tactics set. This is of course is down to the player's attributes -- whether he has the ability to deviate successfully -- and the other players on the team. That is another discussion though ;)

Kasavan is right. It varies from player to player. If your CM has Run From Deep he literally will Run From Deep as it is his natural positioning to fall a bit deeper than your AM/CF. The wording could probably be clearer but the settings doesn't mean that your Poacher will drop deep just to make a forward run. He will just run from whatever position he finds himself in. If it is a good position and good run is dependent on attributes like Anticipation, Off The Ball, Decisions & Team Work.

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I think there's some confusion as to what "Run from Deep" actually means, as the wording isn't great. Those 70% who suggested RFD rarely on a poacher probably think RFD often means "stay deep and make forward runs from there". It doesn't - what it means is simply "make forward runs".

So, if you want your poacher on the shoulder of the last defender, making runs off the ball, it should be set to "often". If you want him dropping deep, it should be "rarely". These both work in combination with mentality, of course.

This is absolutely bang on.

The old wording was Forward Runs and whilst the wording has changed I don't think anything under the hood has. If you have a root around there's a couple of XML files that still refer to it as Forwards Runs.

Not sure why it was renamed as for me Forward Runs is far more logical.

The instruction is dead simple - it simply helps to define the vertical movement of a player, often and they'll push forward, rare and they'll tend to stay where they are (you could argue they drop a little deeper but for me it's just they stay still and everyone else moves forward so, in effect, they move forward - unless, of course, you're already high up the pitch and there isn't any room for everyone else to move forward but now it's getting more complicated than it needs to be again!)

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