Tactical help - A giant killer who cant win a game

[jimbobBRFC]

So a bit of background info first. Ive started a save as Crewe, played as them before but finished with that save for a number of different reasons. Decided to go back to them now as Ive always had a bit of a soft spot for them. Im trying to play a passing game as technically they have one of the best, if not the best, technical squad in the league. Im mostly playing a 4-3-1-2 set up like so:

------------SK/A-----------

-FB/S--DC/D-DC/D--FB/S-

-----MC/S-DLP/D-MC/A---

------------AP/S-----------

------DLF/S----P/A--------

Team Instructions

Philosophy: Standard, Rigid

Passing: Default, I want to play passing football but dont want to restrict the "hollywood pass" so left this on default

Tackling: Stand off more, dont want to give away and stupid free kicks

Closing down: Stand off Want the team to keep their shape

Crosses: Drill crosses

Everything else on default. I also encourage roaming in the front three to create plenty of movement up front, whilst keeping the defensive aspect of the team pretty solid.

I also have a secondary tactic which drops the 3MC's back to the DM strata, similar to TomTucks formation in the three DM thread.

So season got off to a winning start, 6 points from the first two games and two convincing performances. Then I get Lecister in the league cup. Somehow manage to scrape a win in extra time. The following Saturday I lost 2-1 at home to Dag&Red. The next legue game I manage to scrape a draw with Burton which I really wasnt happy with. So my next game is league cup game away to Cardiff, rotate a lot similar to the LEcister game, play a lot of youngsters as Im not really expecting a win. Manage to win it 3-2 in extra time with a wonder strike from my RB/MC who im playing to rest people. Next league game against Shrewsbury at home guess what? Dominated 2-0 barely got near their goal.

Now I know it could be midweek hangover but ive rotated and kept all the players fresh, never started a game with less than around 92% fitness. Anybody have any ideas of a reason? OR can spot any glaring flaws in the formation

[furiousuk]

No probs with formation - seems like a very logical and balanced set of roles and duties to me. So long as it matches the personnel that's a great framework from which to build.

A couple of points I can see quickly:

Standing off and shying away from the tackle as a 'go-to philosophy' is potentially problematic. Whilst I agree with your reasoning there are going to be plenty of games when you want to impose yourself on the opposition - this is particularly relevant if you are the better side. The top teams might not set out to kick opposition off the park (quite the opposite usually) but they'll want to assert their dominance - Barcelona do this without much physicality but with incredible work-rate and enthusiasm defensively.

Against poor opposition - which you're struggling against - why would you give them a chance at all? If they are poor they'll not be able to handle being closed down anyway so you don't need to worry about leaving gaps because they are unlikely to exploit them. Going in soft is fine in principle but giving them room AND let them dominate your physically is very risky.

It is often motivation too. Against poor opposition you usually have to be more strict with demanding a performance, of course, if you have a bunch of whingers this is difficult hence another benefit of determined professional types.

Also 92%, whilst not terrible, is pretty low. You're always going to struggle mid-way through the 2nd half. I understand that with a smaller squad this is impossible to avoid at times but a weak team at 100% are always going to be difficult for a tired good team. You could try keeping it tight, don't give anything away, employ time-wasting (you should notice your guys fall over much more readily using time-wasting thus you might get some juicy free-kicks) and assert your technical dominance by keeping the ball and giving them the run-around. Part of maintaining the lion's share of possession is getting it back - if you press too lightly and sit off too much you run the risk of being given the run-around by them, it's better to run hard for 2 mins and get the ball back than run not-so-hard for 10.

[Fabian Jonsson]

Defense:

I use that formation a lot but with some big differences: I use a very fluid control setup with default tackling and zonal marking. I imagine that our two teams go about defending in very different ways. Therefore it might be difficult to apply my findings directly to your team. I do, however, want to say that I find the space between the lines and the width of the central three to be the two most important things to get right on a game-by-game basis. A compact team and a central three that helps covering the flanks is essential. I use stand-off more too, since I belive the shape is very strong against most AI tactics, however I do instruct the team to push up if I feel they are giving away too much space.

Attack:

Here I've found that I like having the AMC as a AM/A much more than a AP/S (which was the first thing I tried). Here I go for the best available "runner" - someone with work rate, teamwork and off the ball. That way he can open up space in the centre for the deep-lying forward to fall into. In the DLF/S (for me a CF/S) role I play my best creator, usually a retrained AMC (AP/S). This creates natural movement where the AM pushes up, and the ST comes deep. The P/A (in my case AF/A) operates high and wide on the opposite flank, and at the same side of the pitch, the MC on CM/A comes forward to support the attack. For that position I've founf that, again, work rate+teamwork+off the ball is very important, so that the player really help out the way he's supposed to. One of my best advanced playmakers is absolutely terrible in that role because his way too slow at pushing up into the attack - I believe it's because of his 9 work rate (in all other attributes he's rather similar to the best player I have for that role). Finally, I would try switching to a defend duty on the MC directly behind the deep-lying striker, so that you keep the box of DC+DC+MC+MC intact going forward. It will probably help keeping possession, and you'll be less voulnerable aginst counters.

Hope some of it helps.

[Karnage94]

I have had very little experience with narrow formations, I don't use them often but it looks like you have too few players running from deep and testing the back line of the opposition. Personally I'd have the full backs be more attacking and your AMC more of a goal threat. Against the bigger teams you won't have problems finding space to exploit as they will be thinking that they can boss you. With the league games however, the opposition won't see you as a team that will roll over so ultimately there may be less space.

What the two above me have said I can't honestly give any better advice. So hopefully that all helps

[jimbobBRFC]

No probs with formation - seems like a very logical and balanced set of roles and duties to me. So long as it matches the personnel that's a great framework from which to build.

A couple of points I can see quickly:

Standing off and shying away from the tackle as a 'go-to philosophy' is potentially problematic. Whilst I agree with your reasoning there are going to be plenty of games when you want to impose yourself on the opposition - this is particularly relevant if you are the better side. The top teams might not set out to kick opposition off the park (quite the opposite usually) but they'll want to assert their dominance - Barcelona do this without much physicality but with incredible work-rate and enthusiasm defensively.

Against poor opposition - which you're struggling against - why would you give them a chance at all? If they are poor they'll not be able to handle being closed down anyway so you don't need to worry about leaving gaps because they are unlikely to exploit them. Going in soft is fine in principle but giving them room AND let them dominate your physically is very risky.

It is often motivation too. Against poor opposition you usually have to be more strict with demanding a performance, of course, if you have a bunch of whingers this is difficult hence another benefit of determined professional types.

Also 92%, whilst not terrible, is pretty low. You're always going to struggle mid-way through the 2nd half. I understand that with a smaller squad this is impossible to avoid at times but a weak team at 100% are always going to be difficult for a tired good team. You could try keeping it tight, don't give anything away, employ time-wasting (you should notice your guys fall over much more readily using time-wasting thus you might get some juicy free-kicks) and assert your technical dominance by keeping the ball and giving them the run-around. Part of maintaining the lion's share of possession is getting it back - if you press too lightly and sit off too much you run the risk of being given the run-around by them, it's better to run hard for 2 mins and get the ball back than run not-so-hard for 10.

Yeah I know what you mean Furious, possesion hasnt been a problem really. Even in the games where ive been dominated ive still been getting around 53/54% (I know thats not being dominated as such but from wathcin the game it was dominating). Maybe a harder press would stop them getting the space, a lot of goals I concede come from say there MC picking up the ball and having plenty of time to pick a pass and slot it through, coupled with some awful defensive mistakes doenst help. I dont like giving away lots of free kicks, especially in the lower leagues were defensively and positionally the defenders are not as good. Might try a high press soft tackling approach, can imagaine that being very much like Barca. press lots but never actually dive into challenges. Just keep maybe my DC's, DLP and one other MC on slightly less pressing to help keep the DC-DC-MC-MC box as Fabian mentions. I think the bit in bold could be my main problem, especiialy with the extreme phsical nature of League 2

Defense:

I use that formation a lot but with some big differences: I use a very fluid control setup with default tackling and zonal marking. I imagine that our two teams go about defending in very different ways. Therefore it might be difficult to apply my findings directly to your team. I do, however, want to say that I find the space between the lines and the width of the central three to be the two most important things to get right on a game-by-game basis. A compact team and a central three that helps covering the flanks is essential. I use stand-off more too, since I belive the shape is very strong against most AI tactics, however I do instruct the team to push up if I feel they are giving away too much space.

Attack:

Here I've found that I like having the AMC as a AM/A much more than a AP/S (which was the first thing I tried). Here I go for the best available "runner" - someone with work rate, teamwork and off the ball. That way he can open up space in the centre for the deep-lying forward to fall into. In the DLF/S (for me a CF/S) role I play my best creator, usually a retrained AMC (AP/S). This creates natural movement where the AM pushes up, and the ST comes deep. The P/A (in my case AF/A) operates high and wide on the opposite flank, and at the same side of the pitch, the MC on CM/A comes forward to support the attack. For that position I've founf that, again, work rate+teamwork+off the ball is very important, so that the player really help out the way he's supposed to. One of my best advanced playmakers is absolutely terrible in that role because his way too slow at pushing up into the attack - I believe it's because of his 9 work rate (in all other attributes he's rather similar to the best player I have for that role). Finally, I would try switching to a defend duty on the MC directly behind the deep-lying striker, so that you keep the box of DC+DC+MC+MC intact going forward. It will probably help keeping possession, and you'll be less voulnerable aginst counters.

Hope some of it helps.

I agree with the point of using an AM/A, as well it would help get somebody into the space vacated by the DLF dropping deep. Yeah my regular DLF is a tricky winger with good passing ability so he dropps deep has the dribbling ability but can also pick a pass pretty well.

I have had very little experience with narrow formations, I don't use them often but it looks like you have too few players running from deep and testing the back line of the opposition. Personally I'd have the full backs be more attacking and your AMC more of a goal threat. Against the bigger teams you won't have problems finding space to exploit as they will be thinking that they can boss you. With the league games however, the opposition won't see you as a team that will roll over so ultimately there may be less space.

What the two above me have said I can't honestly give any better advice. So hopefully that all helps

Against the bigger teams isnt the problem its against the teams who leave me no space. MY problem with making the full backs more attacking is that a quick counter could leave me short, espcially without a DM to sit infront of the defence and mop up. An interesting idea, but ive found my full backs do contribute enough just on a support duty.

Cheers for all the advice people

[Piratesarecool]

are you conceding on counters and crosses?

maybe the smaller teams are trying to exploit the flanks. And the big teams look to use the middle more as they expect to dominate.