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The Great English Switcheroo Experiment


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Due to an act of absolute boredom, I decided to swap around the teams in the English leagues.

I thought this would be a good opportunity to holiday each season and just see what happens and post my results here, just in case any of you were interested.

So initially, I updated the leagues so that the teams were in leagues they started in this week. Then I took the 20 worst reputable teams in the Blue Sq North/South and put them in the Premiership, and the rest of the Blue Sq North/South in the Championship. The teams from the Premiership and Championship go in their respective regions in the Blue Sq North/South (bar Barnsley for some reason). Then League One and the Blue Sq Premier are swapped around with each other and League Two stays as it is!

Of course predictions are welcome as to the outcome of this, I just thought I'd do it for a bit of fun and see what happens!

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Predictions

- the big teams will make their way slowly up the ladder, but how big will the teams now in the Premier League be when they finally get there?

- the Blue Sq Prem teams (now in League One) will make their way up the championship and premiership and have a brief spell of dominance in the premier league, but will fail in europe.

- the teams that are now in Blue Sq Prem (formerly League One) and get relegated will struggle and finish unplayable.

- some Prem teams now in Blue Sq North/South will struggle with lack of finance coming in and enter administration.

-the new Premier teams will obviously have to upgrade their stadiums,but won't fill them.

Please do submit some of your own opinions and predictions and hope you enjoy this!

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Left them as they were. I figured the clubs in Europe wouldn't have the power to sign amazing players due to theirr league reputation, and with them being able to enter Europe by winning the FA cup anyway, it wouldn't make much difference.

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UPDATE 2011-2012

So in the first season of this switcheroo, everything was pretty open. There wasnt many changes or shocks, seeing as it is the first season in which the teams entered the new leagues and they were playing against teams they usually play against anyway.

Solihull Moors won the Premier League, with Hinckley chasing them to the title. All clubs waited until the end of the season to turn professional, meaning the Premier League was played and televised by all semi-professional teams. The Premier teams decided to buy the younger players of the former "bigger teams", ie Ipswich youth strikers tearing up the Premier League by force.

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The teams also had to increase their stadiums to a decent capacity, due to Premier League regulations. Some even decided to build new stadiums, Vauxhall moving to a 26000 seater in 2014.

On the other end of the playable ladder, Man Utd dominated to win the Blue Square North. However, as there is only one promotion spot and one playoff spot, Liverpool won the playoffs to gain promotion to the Blue Sq Premier, leaving teams such as Man City stuck in the Blue Square North for next season. The same went for Arsenal and Spurs, who were pipped to promotion by Chelsea and surprisingly Fulham.

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The former Premier League teams managed to keep hold of their star players, the league reputation not affecting the players ambitions, and the AI not thinking for foreign clubs to come in and scoop up big players in lower standard leagues. This meant that without the revenue coming in from the Premier League, the coffers were starting to dwindle for a lot of clubs, a lot entering insecure finances and teams with gigantic debts nearly entering administration.

The Blue Square Premier held no shocks, with the better teams in the league seeming to benefit from the situation. It was a surprise to see Portsmouth dominating, considering their financial situation, but with poor revenue affecting a lot of clubs, and a substantial amount of loss through high wages, everyone seemed to balance out. (Crewe were relegated there by the way, poor screenshot, sorry)

bluesquarebetpremierove.png

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UPDATE 2011-2012 CONTINUED

The Championship (consisting of the higher reputation Blue Sq North/South Teams) didnt experience anything substantial. Most teams decided to become professional at the end of the season and upgrade their stadiums to all seaters, as with regulations.

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(Boston Utd relegated)

League One, which is now consisting of Blue Square Premier teams, was dominated by the so called "bigger teams", Macclesfield, Wrexham and Luton enjoying promotion to the Championship. Predictions will be that these teams will be the first to start to dominate the Premier League once they get up there, until the teams from below them get there anyway. It'll just be a race against time for the teams in the Premier League to use their money wisely and spend so that they can challenge against these clubs.

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(Hyde relegated)

League Two, which remained the same, was an open contest, but with the Blue Square Premier and League Two starting to become very similar leagues in terms of ability, it may be harder for the promoted teams to progress into the easier realms of the Championship. As for the relegated teams, you can only feel sorry for them, struggling in this league will eventually mean playing harder opposition, and I'm guessing they will probably become unplayable soon.

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(Aldershot relegated)

As for the cups:

- The FA Cup was won by Sunderland, beating Man City to a full crowd at Wembley, thus entering Europe.

- The league cup became unplayable for some reason, something I'm not really fussed about to be honest, as it gives an extra place to the Premier League, and that only makes it more fun!

- The FA Trophy was won by QPR, who beat Man Utd 3-1. Some of the scores from the unplayable teams playing against some of these teams was horrific, 7-0, 8-0 becoming a common sight.

- And for any other interests, the Paint Trophy was won by Barnet, beating Morecambe 3-1.

This meant that in terms of European Qualification:

Solihull, Hinckley and Bromley enter the Champions League at the Group Stage, with Sutton entering the playoffs.

Sunderland enter the Europa League at the 4th Qual Stage.

Bishops Stortford enter the Europa League at the 3rd Qual Stage.

NEXT SEASONS PREDICTIONS

-The European Qualified teams to bum out of Europe, but gain valuable wealth from it.

-Man Utd to rise up through the leagues, Man City to follow them a league late.

- Luton and Macclesfield to rise to the Premiership and give Solihull a challenge for the title.

-Some former Premier teams to enter administration and lose players.

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Well it will be interesting to see if the league reputation drops substantially, or even if it stays the same to affect the european spots! I didn't check Europe but when I pop on later and holiday another season I will have a look! Or might just check quickly.

As for the transfers, there's some movement between former blue sq clubs, players going to the new premier league teams. But in terms of star players such as rooney etc, they're all staying with their clubs, only youth are moving to the new premier league clubs, for fees of 150k or so. The league two teams are doing the same, buying youth and taking advantage of their position.

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So Europe for that season:

In the Champions League, Chelsea lost to Porto in the Knockout Stage. Man Utd bowed out to Dortmund in the Quarter finals, as did Arsenal, who lost to Bayern in the same round. Man City went on to beat Barcelona in the semi finals, but eventually lost to Bayern 1-0 in the final. None of these teams have the benefits of Europe next season, so the windfall of money they had from this competition will be gone.

In the Europe League, all teams qualified easily from the group stages, but all fell at the first knockout round. Birmingham lost to Benfica, losing 3-0 on aggregate. Fulham lost to Lazio, 5-1 on aggregate. Stoke lost the PSG 4-1 on aggregate, and Spurs lost to Stade Rennais 4-2 on aggregate.

As I say, these teams dont have the benefits of Europe next season, Sunderland being the only team in the lower leagues benefitting from it. So maybe now, we will begin to see teams struggling from lack of income.

I will include a European update in my updates from now on, obviously with the new teams experiencing it for the first time.

I should have another update tonight!

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UPDATE 2012-2013

This season would start to give us an idea of what the future would hold for this league system. There were a few results which were to be expected, and everyone wishing Man Utd falling into the gutter and struggling from lack of finance will be disappointed.

The Premier League had a back to back winner, Solihull taking the title again, with a chase from Sutton Utd and Basingstoke. This was mainly down to the transfers, Solihull brought youth players from teams who are now in the lower leagues, such as Nathaniel Mendez-Laing. Basingstoke decided to splash some cash on unusual players, buying a player from Workington for 3.5million.

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As for the other end, the Blue Square North produced no shocks, Man City and West Brom getting promoted. Sunderlands European exploits cost them a league promotion, and they will have to battle in the Blue Square North for a third season. Bolton entered administration, meaning that the Premier teams are starting to feel the strain.

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The Blue Square South finally caught its first administrative struggle, QPR losing 10 points for entering administration. They still finished mid table, but will it have an effect on them in the future? Spurs and Arsenal predictably got promoted this season, but will struggle to enter the league as there are limited spaces in promotion and they will now be competing against more premiership clubs.

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As for the Blue Square Premier, Man Utd and Liverpool ran away with the league,with Chelsea and Fulham also doing very well, but not enough to gain promotion. It seems likely now that Man Utd and Liverpool will soon be in the Premiership, but the thing to consider is that they have 3 seasons in lower leagues before then. Will it be enough time for Solihull and co to improve enough to compete with these highly reputable teams who are somehow managing to keep hold of their star players? Will these teams enter administration by then, have to sell their star players and will become unable to buy decent players of the same calibre due to their league reputation?

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(Hartlepool relegated)

I will just write up the continued update, inc. the other leagues, Europe and the domestic cups!

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UPDATE 2012 2013 CONTINUED

So the Championship saw a domination of Macclesfield, Luton and Wrexham getting promoted into the Premiership, and I'm feeling that these teams will be the dominators of the Premier League if the other teams haven't used their copious amounts of money wisely. The Premier teams now have two seasons worth of Premier League money, yet they wont buy anyone of any decency!

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In League One, Chesterfield, Southend and Gillingham enjoyed successive promotions, and I feel these teams will be the second wave of teams to come and dominate the Premier League.

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League Two didnt have much of a shock either, Pompey and Sheffield Utd winning promotion again. On the other side, Alfreton and Hyde enjoyed successive relegations, and surely now things look very very bad for them.

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Domestic Cups

FA Cup- Spurs beat Wigan 2-1 to enter Europe.

Community Shield- Sunderland only beat Solihull 2-0, which might start to be indicating the new Premier League teams are starting to become better.

Paint Trophy - Won by Rotherham, who beat Forest Green 2-1

FA Trophy- was played out in front of 90000 who saw Arsenal beat Blackpool on penalties.

Europe

A distinct difference in English teams entering Europe this year saw Solihull, Hinckley and Bromley losing out in the group stage of the Champions League, all shipping at least 25 goals and losing all 6 games.

Sutton didnt even make the Group Stage, losing in the playoff to HSV, 5-0 on aggregate. They entered the Europa League group stages, losing all six and also shipping 25 goals.

In the Europa League, Bishops Stortford lost to Trnava of Slovakia in the third qualifying round. However, Sunderland did very well, losing to Spartak Moscow in the Quarter finals on penalties.

With these poor performances and poor teams in Europe representing England, it will surely be a matter of time before the European spots are reduced.

European Qualification

Champions League

Solihull Moors, Sutton Utd and Basingstoke enter at the Group Stage.

Vauxhall enter in the best placed playoff.

Europa League

Spurs and Bromley enter at the 4th Qualifying with Chelmsford entering in the 3rd Qualifying.

I feel from these season we are starting to see what will become of the leagues. I feel that Solihull and Sutton will probably just survive in the league for a few years, and if they buy well in the future they will definitely remain there. Their reputation is now national, changing from local previously.

We are also starting to see the teams that are constantly getting promoted, who will most likely form the new Premier League once they get there in a few seasons.

It will be interesting to see next season if the teams relegated from the Blue Square North and South return to the league, or whether they are replaced by more cannon fodder for the teams currently occupying the two leagues.

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Hi SuperDan,

If possible, can you please let us know how many goals did top premiership (then :)) strikers like Rooney, Van Persie, Aguero, Torres etc. are scoring?

Thanks,

Mugu

There you go! Seems to be normal considering they are playing against a lot of teams they play each week anyway. But, I can imagine that changing soon when they enter the bigger leagues, and the fact they arent leaving their clubs mean that they will probably score a lot.

I have another update tonight, the season passes quickly when on holiday, the only thing that takes any time is writing up the updates.

[TABLE=width: 25]

[TR]

[TD] Player [/TD]

[TD] 11/12 [/TD]

[TD] 12/13 [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Rooney[/TD]

[TD]27(BSN)[/TD]

[TD]24(BSP)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Van Persie[/TD]

[TD]19(BSS)[/TD]

[TD]31(BSS)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Aguero[/TD]

[TD]15(BSN)[/TD]

[TD]12(BSN)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Tevez[/TD]

[TD]17(BSN)[/TD]

[TD]15(BSN)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Demba Ba[/TD]

[TD]19(BSN)[/TD]

[TD]19(BSN)[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Defoe[/TD]

[TD]18(BSS)[/TD]

[TD]14(BSS)[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

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Well, if this experiment proves anything, it's that the transfer system and player loyalty are messed up. Prima donnas like Rooney and his ilk at Manure would have tried to leave as soon as their club were placed in the BSS IRL.

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Well, if this experiment proves anything, it's that the transfer system and player loyalty are messed up. Prima donnas like Rooney and his ilk at Manure would have tried to leave as soon as their club were placed in the BSS IRL.

I was actually thinking that myself. The AI does not take the prima donna attitude into account. Considering every player raving about the chance to play in the premier league irl, you would think they would move. Solihull and Suttons reputation is now national, and they have ample income to deal with their hefty wages. Even if not, you would think foreign teams would chomp at the bit with that kind of opportunity.

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UPDATE 2013-2014

If anything, this is the season where everything starts to change. Everything is now starting to settle, some decisions are being made by the Premier league clubs to ensure a safer future and some shocks along the way.

In the Premier League, Macclesfield won the title, which shouldve been expected considering no team really bought to make themselves a force in the league. Solihull consolidated with a 2nd place finish, now starting to pay for better players. IRL Championship quality players are now signing for these teams, notably Marvin Sordell to Luton for 2.8 million, Leeds' Snodgrass to Dorchester for 950k, Ross McCormack to Billericay for 550k. The standard is slowly improving in this league, but will it improve in time for when Man Utd and Liverpool get back up there? Attendances are still shocking, the max is Macclesfields 11000odd, the lowest being Vauxhalls 167 average attendance, which will improve hopefully when they move into Vauxhall stadium at the end of the season.

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I'm going to go down from the Championship from now on, as teams who were previously in the Premiership have now spaced out, so doing the update in order of the leagues descendancy makes more sense. The Championship was won by Southend, as expected with Chesterfield following them. The surprise playoff promotion was Bath, who beat Gillingham to promotion. It is now apparent that quality of teams are starting to change and league reputation is actually having an impact.

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League One was expectedly won by Sheff Utd, with Pompey also getting promoted and Bradford also following. You can see now a big difference in quality of teams. The teams that struggle in the Championship and do not take advantage of their situation suffer miserably, ie Boston Utd and Guiseley(relegated from L2) both suffering, and will continue to suffer.

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League Two, with Man Utd and Liverpool in it, was again not a shock. As I said, it will only be a matter of time before they get into the Premiership. Their lack of income has meant that they have been operating on very small teams, but these teams include Rooney and Suarez and co.

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UPDATE 2013-2014 CONTINUED

The Blue Sq Prem is now starting to become inundated by former Premiership teams, and with only 2 promotion spots available, it is going to be a slow process for these teams to get back to the top flight. If the financial struggle doesnt hit them first. Most of the new Premiership teams are rich now, as well as the Championship teams, whereas, apart from the big teams, most of the former Premier League and Championsip have insecure or very insecure finances and as a result, they are playing with very small teams of players they have in the Premiership irl.

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Now to the regional leagues. The greatest shock for me was the fact that out of the 6 teams relegated last season (Leeds, Charlton, Crystal Palace, Peterborough, Middlesbrough and Leicester), only Leeds came back up, selling most of their star players on the way to the new Premiership teams. Leeds struggled and were relegated again, with the lack of finance to buy anyone decent to compete with a league now made up mostly of Championship sides. Newcastle and Stoke enjoyed promotion, leaving Sunderland, Everton and Villa with a 4th season in the bottom playable league.

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The Blue Square South shares a similar story, made up of Championship and ex League One and Two teams. It is definitely having an impact on teams, QPR struggling loads and going through a wide selection of managers.

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Domestic Cups

The biggest shocks were in the cups.

FA Cup - won by Chelsea who beat Dorchester 3-1. Liverpool lost to Tonbridge in the 3rd Round 2-1, Man Utd and Man City lost in the second round, Man Utd most notably losing to Isthmian Premier Crystal Palace 2-1.

Community Shield- Solihull Moors beat Spurs 2-1 to win the Shield. Spurs still having Bale and Defoe and Modric in their side.

Paint Trophy- Won by Wycombe, who beat Liverpool 3-2. Is the league reputation starting to have an effect on teams?

FA Trophy - Blackpool beat Chelsea 3-1.

Europe

Champions League

Solihull actually drew a group stage game! Drawing against Benfica 1-1, however shipping 15 goals in the group, better than the 25 last season.

Sutton did one better and won one game, losing the rest. They beat Shakhtar 1-0.

Basingstoke just sucked and lost all 6.

Vauxhall didnt even make the group stage, losing 9-0 on aggregate to Benfica in the Best placed playoff.

Europa League

Vauxhall entered the Europa League after that drubbing with a group stage appearance, drawing 2 against Bremen and Basel.

Bromley lost to Arsenal Kyiv in the previous round 3-1 on aggregate, and Chelmsford the round before that, losing to Helsingborgs 4-1.

Spurs however, made the semi finals, crashing out to Atletico Madrid 3-1 on aggregate.

European Qualification

England lost a spot in Europe due to their poor performance, so next season sees:

Solihull and Macclesfield entering the group stage of the Champions League.

Luton entering the best placed playoffs.

Chelsea and Wrexham enter the 4th Qual round of the Europa League, with Dorchester entering in the 3rd round.

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Who do you support? I can let you know who is still playing for them!

Crewe Alexandra. Would be a more interesting game to start managing them from that predicament rather than in League 2 vs mostly League 2 sides.

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Well, if this experiment proves anything, it's that the transfer system and player loyalty are messed up. Prima donnas like Rooney and his ilk at Manure would have tried to leave as soon as their club were placed in the BSS IRL.

How often does the entire top tier of football get placed at tier 6 in real life? You can hardly fault a game for being unrealistic when you set up an unrealistic scenario for it to deal with.

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How often does the entire top tier of football get placed at tier 6 in real life? You can hardly fault a game for being unrealistic when you set up an unrealistic scenario for it to deal with.

I think its more the point that players like rooney will want to play in the premier league, and Europe, or even go abroad, but no one has. Considering now that Rooney is still on the same amount at the start of the game and man utd are in league one, finances of the club are now poor. You would think that they should sell him off. Imagine Man Utd did a Rangers and actually started in the BSN. I couldn't imagine their star players sticking around for too long.

I remember in my FM10 save, Man Utd went into administration, got relegated to the championship. All of their best players left, and they were stuck with youth to rely on. And they're in similar financial position now, just playing with a small squad.

I'm not faulting the game at all, as yes this is unrealistic, but I do have to agree that the comparison of player loyalty and player ambition in the game to real life are very different.

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so could man utd crash and burn before they reach the prem? when is rooney's contract up?

Its a possibility yes! They are now worth half of what they were when they started. They aren't filling old Trafford, but 65000-70000 every home game is still giving them a bit of income. Ill check Rooneys contract later, but if I'm right it expires at the end of the next update. I think it depends on who leaves, because with the formation of the leagues, it is just getting easier for them to get promoted. But if their star players go and they don't have a good enough budget to buy new players, they may struggle in the now rich, championship quality premier league.

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UPDATE 2014/2015

This season was a similar one to the last, more Championship quality players being signed by Premiership teams, Macclesfield even buying from abroad. There seems to be a start of an emergence of stronger teams, there are a consistent amount of teams finishing in the higher positions of the Premier League, and these are the teams that are splashing their cash to buy some decent players.

The Premier League saw the first season where League teams would enter into the newly selected 'elite'. Chesterfield dominated the league, after some wise spending, but a surprising factor is Macclesfield, who bought wisely to secure second place above Southend. This was down to their purchasing, buying a player from PSV. The big spenders in the league were Maidenhead however, who spent their money on the better players of last season in the Premier League. Ross McCormack and Sean Scannell moved to the Devonshire Stadium. They may become a big stronger in a couple of years if they continue like this. Another major transfer saw Chesterfield buying the highly rated Matt Phillips from Blackpool.

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The Championship saw some better quality competing in it this season, and surprise surprise, Sheffield Utd and Pompey climbed their way to the Premier League, the first teams who have been in the Premiership previously to do so. Gillingham also joined them, meaning there are now a few league teams in the Premier League. The interesting factor will be, however, if their quality will help them in the Premier League, considering the standard is now starting to rise.

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Man Utd and Liverpool stormed through League One. Finances are now becoming iffy; Man Utd's finances are just ok, and after keeping their star players (Rooney on a contract til 2019 on 185k a week), as a result they are now playing with players from the real life lower Premier League quality players, such as Simon Cox from West Brom.

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League Two saw an easy season for Man City and Arsenal, who are chasing Man Utd and Liverpool to the Premiership. It seems that if the other teams in the Premier League do not improve in time, then this will become the big four in the Premiership.

npowerleague2overviewsti.png

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UPDATE 2014-2015 CONTINUED

The Blue Square Premier is now consisting of all the reject teams pooped out by the league above, and some emerging ex-Premier League teams and some Championship teams too. This for me is currently the most interesting of all the leagues as it just consists of a cross section of teams of all levels competing for 2 promotion spots and trying to avoid 4 relegation places. Chelsea and Swansea rose to the occasion to win promotion to League Two, where they will surely rise to prominence and enjoy a return to the Premier League soon enough. Spurs, Fulham and Newcastle all remain in the league, competing for promotion again next year. This will be their 5th season out of the football league, yet they are still enjoying high crowds.

bluesquarebetpremierovez.png

The Blue Square North will still be consisting of Sunderland, Everton and Aston Villa, as Norwich and Blackpool finally got out of the league to go to the Blue Square Premier, where they will find another tough season to get into the football league. Notts Forest are now poorer and in administration and Wigan are noticably doing very poorly in a team consisting of Championship teams. It isn't looking good for them.

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The Blue Square South is also one of those interesting leagues. Reading and Cardiff went up to the Blue Square Premier. QPR now have a team of 15 and are officially in debt. They might just be the first Premier League team to fall into the fiery chasm of the non-league abyss. The most interesting development for me though is the survival of Carshalton, who have now enjoyed 3 seasons in the Blue Square South. Their finances must be pretty good, considering the teams they play every week and survive. Crystal Palace, Middlesbrough and Charlton are also still slugging it out in the lower leagues, playing against the mighty forces of Wingate and Finchley, Concord Rangers and East Thurrock, yet they are still not getting promoted.

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Also for your interests is the most financially successful teams in England right now.

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Cups

FA Cup- Chelmsford beat Maidenhead 3-0 in front of 27594 at Wembley. Note the transition of teams playing in the final now.

Man Utd lost to Reading 1-0 in the 3rd round, Burnley beat Liverpool 3-0 in the 2nd round, Havant and Waterlooville exacted their revenge against Liverpool in the second round 2-1 and Blackburn of the BSN beat Arsenal 1-0.

Community Shield - Macclesfield beat a Chelsea side consisting of Torres, Lampard and Cech 1-0.

The Paint Trophy was again contested by Liverpool and Wycombe, Wycombe again winning 3-2.

FA Trophy- Spurs beat Wolves 2-0.

EUROPE

Champions League

Solihull and Macclesfield bummed out of the Group stages, losing all 6 games.

Luton lost in the best placed playoff, losing 7-0 on aggregate.

Europa League

Chelsea progressed to the first knockout round, losing to Villareal 3-1 overall.

Luton entered the group stages, beating Leverkusen and drawing 3 games, but they didnt qualify.

Dorchester beat Teuta of Albania 1-0 in the 3rd Qual Round but lost to Metalist Kharkiv in the 4th round 4-1.

Wrexham just sucked and lost 7-1 to Leverkusen.

European Qualification

Next season will see real life league teams entering Europe based on Premier League status:

Champions League Group Stages: Chesterfield and Macclesfield

Best Placed Playoff: Southend

Europa League 4th Qual: Chelmsford, Wrexham

3rd Qual: Luton

The Premier League is now 4th in Europe, after the Italian, Spanish and German leagues.

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As requested here are the screenshots. Nothing massive in the top players or anything, interesting inclusion in the major clubs. The reputation page is much more interesting, note the positions of Leicester and Leeds. The reputation list is in order by the way, so it really is surprising!!

englandoverviewprofile.png

englandclubslist.png

englandclubslist2.png

englandclubslist3.png

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