Jump to content

[Idea for FM13] 1970-1971 Retro Database (England)


Erimus1876

Recommended Posts

I've been thinking about doing something like this for a while, and its a subject thats often brought up on here : A retro FM database.

If I can garner enough support I'd like to begin gatthering all the information needed to create a database based on the English 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Divisions as well as the WC1970 National sides and how they were at the beginning of the 1970-1971 season. I think the 1970's was an interesting decade in football. You had the great 1970 Brazil World Cup team (some say the greatest team ever), the dominace of the 'dirty' Leeds United, the emergence of provincial clubs like Derby County, Wolves, Ipswich, and later Nottingham Forest, as well as great character managers like Clough, Revie, Shankly, and Tommy Docherty etc.

What I need is as many squad lists from that season, hopefully for all the 92 league teams. They need to include:

  • Each players First Name
  • Each players Surname
  • His approximate age in 1970
  • Position
  • Nationality
  • International Status (if known)
  • As well as any known coaching staff - especially the manager and as much detail about him as possible

Ground info would be a bonus too.

I know its a big ask, thats why I'm putting the requests out now in a hope that within 4 or 5 months we'll have enough info to make it viable.

Stuff like exact d.o.b's and previous playing histories are way too much info for something like this and obviously an impossible task to get hold of now, so I'm not too bothered about any of that. But every tiny bit of info helps.

I can't do this on my own so am asking the FM community to use this thread to add whatever info they can get hold of on their favorite teams of that era. Maybe asking on the resepective football club forums could be one way people can get hold of the needed info. Old timers love to reminisce about the old teams they grew up watching. :) Old football programmes and those 1970's annuals could also contain team rosters if you have any laying around in your attic.

If this takes off there'll be a few issues that can't be retro'ed (is that a word?). Transfer fees and player wages for one. Back then top players were on about £300 a week and transfer fees were a few thousand at most. So unfortuantley we'll be stuck with modern fees (and agents :()

But when the time comes (i.e. FM13 is out) and if interest is enough to make a start I'd like someone whose good at creating FM competition scripts to help get rid of the play off system, add unlimited FA Cup replays, League Cup replays, and 1970-style European and UEFA Cups with the addition of the Cup Winners' Cup too (if possible). 2 points for a win, three up three down. No play offs.

Retro kits and logo's would be an awesome addition too but may be a task too far :lol:

So this thread for now is just for info gathering purposes - to see if over the next few months enough people can chip in with the relevant squad info. If by say, January 2013, the bulk of info needed has been collated, I'll begin inputting the data. And if someone wants to begin collating info on any non-English leagues of the same era, maybe we can put together a much larger retro DB?

Thoughts and ideas are welcome!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well good luck. This will be a massive task but here are a few links which may be helpful.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/rothmans-football-yearbook-1970-71-very-good-cond-/230846714950?pt=UK_SportsMemorabilia_Football_Memorabilia_ET&hash=item35bf895446

That is the 1970-71 Rothman's yearbook which should provide you with all of the squad information that you need. £15 isn't too steep either.

http://www.11v11.com/ Also provides data on players, squads and other stuff for teams. £20 a year for access to the database.

Also if you have an iphone 4 or some other such thing you could probably get CM Legends 70's for £1.79 from itunes. It doesn't work on my phone but if you start the game in 1970 you'll have access to various players in the top European leagues.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well good luck. This will be a massive task but here are a few links which may be helpful.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/rothmans-football-yearbook-1970-71-very-good-cond-/230846714950?pt=UK_SportsMemorabilia_Football_Memorabilia_ET&hash=item35bf895446

That is the 1970-71 Rothman's yearbook which should provide you with all of the squad information that you need. £15 isn't too steep either.

http://www.11v11.com/ Also provides data on players, squads and other stuff for teams. £20 a year for access to the database.

Also if you have an iphone 4 or some other such thing you could probably get CM Legends 70's for £1.79 from itunes. It doesn't work on my phone but if you start the game in 1970 you'll have access to various players in the top European leagues.

Great stuff, thanks!

I'm tempted with that yearbook :) The iphone thing is interesting too but I dont have one compatible unfortunately.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In the meantime I'll start the old fashioned way (wikipedia) :D

So far...

Middlesbrough FC circa 1970:

Derrick Downing - Age 25 - Winger - English

Gordon Jones - Age 27 - Fullback - English

Alex Smith - Age 26 - Defender - English

Bill Gates - Age 26 - Defender - English

Frank Spraggon - Age 25 - Defender - English

Eric McMordie - Age 24 - Midfield - Northern Irish

David Chadwick - Age 27 - Winger - India/English

John Hickton - Age 26 - Striker - English

Joe Laidlaw - Age 20 - Midfield - English

Willie Maddren - Age 19 - Defender - English

David Mills - Age 19 - Striker - English

David Armstrong - Age 16 - Striker - English

Jim Platt - Age 18 - Goalkeeper - Northern Irish

Stuart Boam - Age 22 - Defender - English

Manager - Stan Anderson - Age 37 - English

Ground - Ayersome Park - 1970 capacity : 42,000 (32,000 standing terraces, 10,000 seats) - average attendance 19,856

Ideally I'll need 20ish players for each squad, so I'll have to do a bit more digging...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Israel National Team (World Cup 1970):

1. Itzhak Vissoker (born 18 September 1944, 26 years old) - GK (Hapoel Petach-Tikva)

2. Shraga Bär (born March 24, 1948, 22 years old) - D R (Maccabi Netanya)

3. Menachem 'Miko' Bello (born December 26, 1947, 23 years old) - D L (Maccabi Tel-Aviv)

4. David Primo (born 5 May 1946, 24 years old) - SW/D C (Hapoel Tel-Aviv)

5. Zvi Rosen (born 23 June 1947, 23 years old) - D C (Maccabi Tel-Aviv)

6. Shmuel Rosenthal (born 22 April 1947, 23 years old) - D C (Hapoel Petach-Tikva)

7. Itzhak Shum (born 1 September 1948, 22 years old) - DM/M C (Hapoel Kfar-Saba)

8. Giora Spiegel (born July 27, 1947, 23 years old) - M/AM C (Maccabi Tel-Aviv)

9. Yehoshua "Shiye" Feigenbaum (born 5 December 1947, 23 years old) - ST (Hapoel Tel-Aviv)

10.Mordechai "Motaleh" Spiegler (born 19 August 1944, 26 years old) - F C (Maccabi Netanya)

11.George Borba (born in 1944 , 26 years old) - M R (Hapoel Tel-Aviv)

12.Yisha'ayahu Schwager (born 10 February 1946, 24 years old) - D C (Maccabi Haifa)

13.Yehezkel Chazom (Hazum; born 1947, 23 years old) - AML/ST (Hapoel Tel-Aviv)

14.Daniel Shmilovich-Rom "Shmilo" (born November 29 1940, 30 years) - ST (Maccabi Haifa)

15.Rachamim Talbi (born May 17 1943, 27 years old) - AM C (Maccabi Tel-Aviv)

16.Yochanan Vollach (born May 14 1945, 25 years old) - D C (Hapoel Haifa)

17.Eliahu Ben Rimoz (born 1947, 23 years old) - ST (Hapoel Jerusalem)

18.Moshe Romano (born 6 May 1946, 24 years old) - ST (Shimshon Tel-Aviv)

19.Aharon 'Roni' Shuruk (born February 24, 1946, 24 years old) - M LC (Hakoach Ramat-Gan)

20.David Karako (born February 11, 1945, 25 years old) - D R (Maccabi Tel-Aviv)

21.Yechiel Hameiri (born 29 August 1949, 21 years old) - GK (Hapoel Jerusalem)

22.Yair Nossovsky (born 29 June 1937, 33 years old) - GK (Hapoel Kfar-Saba)

head coach: Emmanuel Scheffer (born 1 February 1924, 46 years old)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant idea. I'll get cracking on some Forest info and will post something in the Forest thread in the football forum if that's ok with you? Could be worth PM'ing Icelander(Football Forum Mod) and seeing if you can post a little something in some of the team threads or create a stickied thread at the top of the forum. There will be loads of people with loads of info who maybe willing to give little bits. I'll help you as much as I can. So if there's anything you need me to do, just drop something in here or PM me :thup:.

I could PM Icelander if you want?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant idea. I'll get cracking on some Forest info and will post something in the Forest thread in the football forum if that's ok with you? Could be worth PM'ing Icelander(Football Forum Mod) and seeing if you can post a little something in some of the team threads or create a stickied thread at the top of the forum. There will be loads of people with loads of info who maybe willing to give little bits. I'll help you as much as I can. So if there's anything you need me to do, just drop something in here or PM me :thup:.

I could PM Icelander if you want?

Thanks, that would be a great help. Also asking on official or not so official footy forums is probably one of the quickest ways to get the info, so yes please ask on the Forest sites if you can :thup:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, that would be a great help. Also asking on official or not so official footy forums is probably one of the quickest ways to get the info, so yes please ask on the Forest sites if you can :thup:

I've just asked in the Forest thread on here. That's all. I'll PM Icelander in a minute and then I'll ask some other people who may not visit this part of the forum if they'd kindly visit and post some information :thup:.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Erimus, Icelander said you are more than welcome to create a thread in the football forum but just not to bump it. He said if people have any information it'll stay on the first page.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/nottingh.ht, that maybe useful for most of the sides tbh. You can click and get to the league tables somehow.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great idea buddy! I wish you luck with this. An idea for you: have 2 leagues. One is English Division 1 and the other is a European league with say all the top European teams from Italy, Spain, France, Germany etc if such a thing would interest people? 1970s Barca and Real Madrid, Ajax, Juve, Inter, AC Milan etc etc could prove a pretty tasty prospect. I'll leave it up to you what you decide to do but I'll definately download this once it's completed

Link to post
Share on other sites

Erimus, Icelander said you are more than welcome to create a thread in the football forum but just not to bump it. He said if people have any information it'll stay on the first page.

http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/bob.dunning/nottingh.ht, that maybe useful for most of the sides tbh. You can click and get to the league tables somehow.

Cheers, I've copied this post into that forum now.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Great idea buddy! I wish you luck with this. An idea for you: have 2 leagues. One is English Division 1 and the other is a European league with say all the top European teams from Italy, Spain, France, Germany etc if such a thing would interest people? 1970s Barca and Real Madrid, Ajax, Juve, Inter, AC Milan etc etc could prove a pretty tasty prospect. I'll leave it up to you what you decide to do but I'll definately download this once it's completed

Ultimately thats where I'd like it to go, but for now I'll just concentrate on England and see if there's enough interest before taking it further. But yeah, 1970 retro leagues for all the European nations merged with this one would be a great idea :thup:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimately thats where I'd like it to go, but for now I'll just concentrate on England and see if there's enough interest before taking it further. But yeah, 1970 retro leagues for all the European nations merged with this one would be a great idea :thup:

Just out of interest is the database going to be a blank slate? In other words are you going to delete all players and staff before creating the new ones?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure yet. I'll probably decide that closer to the time when it comes to inputting the data. I'm leaning toward removing the defualt player portraits, clearing their histories, and just over-writing existing players and moving them around from club to club where appropriate since the starting database is usually very balanced with attribute distribution, CA's, and PA's. Starting with a blank canvass would add a load more work to do if it means re-entering all their attributes too and trying to re-balance everything.

So at the moment its pencilled in as an over-write of existing season 2012/13 players, with player details from season 1970/71.

I'll be looking at transfer behaviour too as this is something that can be amended in the editor. Most transfers back then were between British clubs with foreign players entering the English game from abroad being a much rarer thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Erimus,

Great ideia. Leeds Utd of course had an excellent season in 1970/71 as they won the Uefa Cup (Inter-Cities Fairs Cup) that year against Juventus http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk/pdf/season197071part4.pdf . On the other hand Chelsea also had a golden year as they won the Cup Winners' Cup against Real Madrid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%E2%80%9371_Chelsea_F.C._season . You might think on adding Italian Clubs (here follows a small contribute):

Internazionale 1970/71 [1970/71 Serie A Champion's and European Cup runner's up the following year loosing to Ajax] http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Club_Internazionale_Milano_1970-1971

Goalkeeper

Ivano Bordon 13-04-51

Massimo Cacciatori 04-05-51

Lido Vieri 16-07-39

Defender

Tarcisio Burgnich 25/04/1939

Giancarlo Cella 05/09/1940

Bernardino Fabbian 11/02/1950

Giacinto Facchetti 18/07/1942

Mario Giubertoni 08/12/1945

Vincenzo Martella 30/07/1945

Oscar Righetti 17/09/1948

Midfielder

Marco Achilli 09/12/1948

Gianfranco Bedin 24/07/1945

Mauro Bellugi 07/02/1950

Mario Bertini 07/01/1944

Mario Corso 25/08/1941

Mario Frustalupi 12/09/1942

Gabriele Oriali 25/11/1952

Sandro Mazzola 08/11/1942

Forward

Roberto Boninsegna 13/11/1943

Jair da Costa 09/07/1940

Sergio Pellizzaro 01/03/1945

Alberto Reif 14/10/1946

Manager

Giovanni Invernizzi 26/08/1931

Juventus 1970/71 http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juventus_Football_Club_1970-1971

Goalkeeper

Massimo Piloni 21/08/1948

Roberto Tancredi 30/01/1944

Defender

Antonello Cuccureddu 04/10/1949

Luigi Danova 05/06/1952

Gian Pietro Marchetti 22/10/1948

Francesco Morini 12/08/1944

Gianluigi Roveta 21/05/1947

Sandro Salvadore 29/11/1939

Luciano Spinosi 09/05/1950

Giuseppe Zaniboni 13/03/1949

Midfielder

Fabio Capello 18/06/1946

Giuseppe Furino 05/07/1946

Helmut Haller 21/07/1939

Franco Causio 01/02/1949

Forward

Pietro Anastasi 07/04/1948

Roberto Bettega 27/12/1950

Fausto Landini 29/07/1951

Roberto Montorsi 22/08/1951

Adriano Novellini 02/09/1948

Gianluigi Savoldi 09/06/1949

Manager

Cestmir Vycpalek 15/05/1921

AC Milan 1970/71 http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Associazione_Calcio_1970-1971#Campionato

Goalkeeper

Fabio Cudicini 20/10/1935

William Vecchi 28/12/1948

Defender

Angelo Anquilletti 25/04/1943

Roberto Rosato 18/08/1943

Karl-Heinz Schnellinger 31/03/1939

Giulio Zignoli 19/04/1946

Midfielder

Romeo Benetti 20/10/1945

Giorgio Biasiolo 16/02/1946

Gianni Rivera 18/08/1943

Giovanni Trapattoni 17/03/1939

Forward

Pierino Prati 13/12/1946

Nestor Combin 29/12/1940

Manager

Nereo Rocco 20/05/1912

Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually started doing a database a few years ago for the previous season, 1969/70. It was for FM 09/10 I think as that way the world cups fell on the right year.

I got a long way through it until my laptop actually burnt out and I eventually gave up. If I can find it I think I still have the laptop and if I can retrieve the data it might be useful to you. I was aiming for a simpler task of creating about 14 teams based in different countries, made from players from those countries and surrounding smaller places. I got pretty much all the players in but there was some problem with competitions or something. There was a thread about it on here at the time anyway.

My advice would be to get inputting early because it will take forever, and to get help on that if you can. If completed this would be an amazing database. There's so many classic players around this time its untrue. I can definitely help you with some info as you requested though, will post it on here later.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just found the thread

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/186155-WIP-69-70-season-database?p=5506700#post5506700

It's weird to remember there were just a few things to iron out but I ended up without a working computer and no cash to buy a new one as I'd spent it all on trying to fix the old one.

I can confirm as kernohg said that is a good site to use, I think the data on there is good for accuracy

Quick list of sources off top of my head:

http://www.neilbrown.newcastlefans.com/

wikipedia

www.pesstatsdatabase.com (not amazing but shows you all positions and heights and gives you an idea about attributes for top players)

www.worldfootball.net - look on each team's or league's historical seasons

You might want to use a spreadsheet to store some data before you input.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all the info and links :thup: I've got a good few sites now that look like they'll have the majority of the info I'm after.

I need to decide what the best course of action is when it comes to building this database now, so I would like some advice from anyone whose been there and done it. Steellad for example :)

I think I'm ok with setting up the correct league structures and rules of the time having had some experience with the editor last year building a level 10 English db, but when it comes to entering the player data I've been wondering about how best to approach this.

I want the database to be useable in future FM's, not just FM13, but also 14, 15, 16 etc. The problem I see with this is that if I go with my initial idea of over-writing existing 2012/13 players with 1970/71 players, when those future FM's are released will my database changes to the player names be re-over-written when future SI databases are released/merged with the 1970 db?

If I go with a blank database and enter the players as new entries, they'll all get new unique ID's that should (in theory) carry over to future databases with no problems. The problem with this however is that if I have to create players from scratch the amount of work involved goes up exponentially. Thats why I prefer the option of over-writing existing players. Thoughts?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Erimus

I have a lot of data on the 1970-71 championship. I had gathered because I wanted to create a database for that year for Championship Manager 1997-98. I realized the files in excel where I collected data sampled English and Spanish and many important teams around the world. As far as Italy is concerned, since I am Italian I have all the Yearbooks from 1965 to today, so I can help you to make the perfect Italian league from series A to series C. Let me know.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Erimus

I have a lot of data on the 1970-71 championship. I had gathered because I wanted to create a database for that year for Championship Manager 1997-98. I realized the files in excel where I collected data sampled English and Spanish and many important teams around the world. As far as Italy is concerned, since I am Italian I have all the Yearbooks from 1965 to today, so I can help you to make the perfect Italian league from series A to series C. Let me know.

The 1970-71 championship data you have, is that for the English league or the Italian league? At the moment I'm just looking at creating the English clubs 1970 data as its a big enough project on its own. So if you have English club data for 1970 that would be very helpful to me :)

The Italian leagues as well as the other major European leagues would be something I'd help others with once I've completed the English leagues.

If you could find several people to work on one countries league each could their created files be merged into one?

Thats what I'm hoping for. I think once one nation is complete and proves successful I think others may want to expand it to other nations. Eventually merging all the various databases together into one complete Euro-wide 1970 database.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats what I'm hoping for. I think once one nation is complete and proves successful I think others may want to expand it to other nations. Eventually merging all the various databases together into one complete Euro-wide 1970 database.

It would be brilliant to try and get someone from as many European nations as possible to contribute. It's finding them that might be hard work.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the data related to the English first division 1970-71: date and place of birth, in which roles they have played with appearances and goals. I have a lot of data even in the other three English divisions and the major European teams, especially Germany, France, Spain. I have the full details of the Italian teams. I also have something of the Brazilian championships and, above all, Argentine

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...