FM13 The New Match Engine and Match-Day Experience

[dribbler]

Well I watched the first 2 videos and I'm unconvinced to say the least. Maybe it's much better than FM12 but you'd need to take Miles' word on it so far as I can tell. Certainly the player animations on FM12 were a lot better than FM10 but £35 because the ball curves differently and the players can look round? In the first video the clips were so fast I couldn't tell what they were supposed to be showing us. And I couldn't see anything at all in the second video except a marginal reworking of some screens.

What we really need is a long, slow video of all the crap things in FM12 (and there really are a lot of them) and a very sincere promise that they've been sorted.

Do 6 players still chase the ball after it's off the pitch and then all turn round at the same time? Do we still have to wait for what seems like 30 minutes while a trainer comes onto the pitch? Do players about to take a throw-in still stand with their back to the pitch and waggle their head for ages? Do injured players still float? Do injured players still take the long walk 60 yards behind the goal rather than the short walk 2 yards off the touchline? Does the referee still ignore the position of the players and the ball? Do players still run through the referee? Do we still have to wait an age for the ref to give a yellow card? Do players still trudge 20 yards to get a yellow card while the ref stands still? Will our players still get yellow cards without us being told on the text? Is the text bar still hopelessly inaccurate compared to the animations? Do goalkeepers still make mad dives onto the ball when there's no danger? Do players still take ages and ages on the ball even with the fastest possible tempo? Do players still defend hopelessly against the breakaway counter-attack following an attacking set-piece. Do SI still insist that a player closing down a corner abandons his position and goes back into the penalty area whether I like it or not? Will I still be unable to stop a player lumping a free-kick forward to the head of a small striker? When I substitute an injured player and hit confirm will I still have to do the same thing a second time?

What's more the in-match experience is the best bit of the game. Don't get me started on the tedious admin tasks in between games, the complex navigation between screens and the dozens of screens mostly filled with garbage. And I'm pessimistic about the whole playing a season in 10 hours thing because of the fearful mess the AI director of football and assistant managers are likely to make of things.

I love the game though

[Smurf]

There are separate threads on each of these videos already, and also on FM13 - do really need another one?

If you're unconvinced by the videos - then there will be a FREE DEMO as there is every year - and you try the game out before you commit your £35 to buying the full version.

[dribbler]

There are separate threads on each of these videos already, and also on FM13 - do really need another one?

If you're unconvinced by the videos - then there will be a FREE DEMO as there is every year - and you try the game out before you commit your £35 to buying the full version.

Who the hell are you to tell me what and where to post? I'm making the perfectly reasonable point that the videos don't tell me what I want to know so take your snotty remarks elsewhere. AND DON'T SHOUT!!!

[Smurf]

Apologies for the caps - I wanted to highlight it, I'll use bold in future.

It wasn't a snotty remark, I was letting you know there are threads on this already.

[CalumF]

Well said.

I get annoyed when we are told 900 new feature are inn the game. Not really is it! 3/4 of them are little things that are tweaked from the previous game that would of been in the previous game before that. Updating and making screens more accessible shouldnt be classed as new features.

One thing that I would change straight away with the match engine that bugs the **** out of me and that is the subs bench. Each player sitting miles apart from each other. Whats that all about! The squad harmony and morole must be sky high when they must hate to sit beside each other!

[bugsgalore]

Who cares if there's other threads there's an option to make a new thread which he has done,

If you don't like it dont look in the thread :-)

Anyway I totally agree with the op and I want more info not just 3 min video which was crap, hopefully we will get more answers soon.

[Smurf]

So you want this improved - you want the squad to sit close to each other on the bench?

Ok that's 901 new features.

It's not something I consider important, compared to making a better UI, or improving/rewriting the match engine and the behaviour of the AI.

I'd rather see realistic ball movement than them spending time having the players hold hands on the bench.

[CalumF]

I dont class it important. Just something that would take no time to fix.

[Smurf]

I class upgrading the UI to make it better as a new feature. The UI has new features that weren't there before.

I don't look at the bench during mach play. I'm the manager I view the match from the touchline looking away from the bench.

[bugsgalore]

Anyway back to the topic, it looks to me that all they have done so far is update fm12 and they haven't rewritten the whole match engine and Paulc has admitted some of it has been left as it is, let's just hope all the bugs where fixed and the AI squad building has been improved and I'll be happy :-)

[dribbler]

Well to be fair they may well have made some great improvements...I sometimes think about doing a "101 things that annoy me about football manager" post though so I really hope some of the things I mentioned are sorted out...the SI staff must stare at them the same as I do after all

[CityAndColour]

As long as the match engine re-write has had a huge focus on defensive movements then I'll be happy. Anyway, as stated, this is exactly why they release a demo and I am awaiting it with keen interest.

[dribbler]

As long as the match engine re-write has had a huge focus on defensive movements then I'll be happy. Anyway, as stated, this is exactly why they release a demo and I am awaiting it with keen interest.

hey C&C any chance of explaining what you mean by defensive movements and what you're looking for?

[JimiJames]

The new Fifa 13's match day experience is excellent, FM is about 10 years behind it IMO, I still use the dots so i don't really give a **** about match engine.

FM is about all the little things. If you want match day experience buy Fifa, if you want everything else buy FM

Jus sayin!

[Alekos]

Agree 100% with the OP.All those not even 3min videos show nothing new..Like OP said all those things that he mentioned are far more important than the small tweaks that are supposed to be in the 900new features..

[dribbler]

hey C&C any chance of explaining what you mean by defensive movements and what you're looking for?

I reckon I worked it out. You want to do the Brendan Rodgers thing huh?

[Neil Brock]

Please keep this thread on topic please and don't resort to name calling. Thanks.

[bugsgalore]

Ok Neil I agree ma bad I apologize :-) also why don't you tell it to the same guys on here who come on and say you can't post a new tread or you can't criticize anything before these same people who do it all the time jump in and criticize everything about someone's opinion and let's face it it's on an opinion an we're all allowed one on here arnt we?

Anyway like I've said I am looking forward to seeing the demo more than the videos which will give us all a better understanding to what improvement are implemented and will say one thing good luck :-)

[Smurf]

There are separate threads on each of these videos already, and also on FM13 - do really need another one?

You're right I could have formed my response better.

I didn't say he couldn't post what he wanted. I asked a question, denoted by the "?" at the end of the sentence.

Apparently, we do need a duplicate thread. I'm ok with that, and I joined in.

It's all cool.

[Things Could Get Messi]

These are the sort of threads that appear annually after the announcement of a new FM but I actually like them because they underline the point that FM has plenty of faults that never seem to get addressed. What is the point of having 900+ new features when they can't be bothered to fix what is wrong with the game?

For an example we are about to have a director of football feature included in the game despite the fact the AI has for many years and still is rubbish at squad building. I am not against new ideas by any stretch but less new features and fixing what is broke would be my preferred route and would benefit us all in having a more realistic game.

[Keyzer Soze]

These are the sort of threads that appear annually after the announcement of a new FM but I actually like them because they underline the point that FM has plenty of faults that never seem to get addressed. What is the point of having 900+ new features when they can't be bothered to fix what is wrong with the game?

For an example we are about to have a director of football feature included in the game despite the fact the AI has for many years and still is rubbish at squad building. I am not against new ideas by any stretch but less new features and fixing what is broke would be my preferred route and would benefit us all in having a more realistic game.

Do you have any inside connections on SI HQ?

I ask you this, because i dont understand how you can be so sure that the AI will be still bad in FM2013, in terms of building squads.

[bugsgalore]

I think we are all waiting on the answers to the AI squad buliding that's my main worry

[dribbler]

I think we are all waiting on the answers to the AI squad buliding that's my main worry

now I told you not to get me started on the other stuff but surely an AI manager could rotate a squad more sensibly, resting players who are tired and surely they could sub off players before they get down to 50% fitness...and what about allowing me to select some or all of the players for reserve and youth matches and then letting my assistant/youth manager manage the team through the match?

[dribbler]

You're right I could have formed my response better.

I didn't say he couldn't post what he wanted. I asked a question, denoted by the "?" at the end of the sentence.

Apparently, we do need a duplicate thread. I'm ok with that, and I joined in.

It's all cool.

it occurred to me that this is the time to influence FM14 you see

[dribbler]

the endless garbage messages, the over-complex subscription choices and the automatic resetting of my subscription choices just because I rescout players

[dribbler]

and take a look at every screen in the game and make it neat, tidy and uncluttered...then put in a proper menu system...you start in the managers office and you can choose to go to the physio room or the training pitch or the tactics room or the dressing room before a match etc...just so your customers can see all the screens available through a neat and tidy tree-type menu

in my opinion some parts of the game are really well designed but the overall feel is of an absolute shambles designed by a...well I think I made my point

[dribbler]

I don't want a dumbed-down simplified game. By all means lets have a simplified game for inexperienced players or people who just want to relax after a stressful day. Let's have more customers for SI, make money for the owners and hopefully spend a little more on development. But if you ask me the real problem for the SI marketing bods is the huge learning curve for beginners. And a large part of that learning curve is unnecessary. It's the sheer complexity of navigating through the dozens of screen options and the garbage on those screens.

Perhaps they're recognising this in the match-day experience video? Then again they are also making lots of garbage available during the match as well. There seems to this constant focus on giving us extra stuff.

SI need somebody to take an axe to the game. Get your accountant to explain zero-based budgeting to you. Then apply it to the game. Start with nothing and ask yourself item by item what you really need to put in. It's not the big things I'm complaining about. We need a training module. Do we need a calendar icon in the top left of the manager inbox? Repeat for every last thing on every last screen. Let's be more radical. Do we need a manager inbox? Repeat for every screen. Ruthlessly prune things down and axe the garbage.

By all means have a few people working on improvements like the ball behaving more realistically. But have some other people working on making the game experience more fun. It's not rocket science lads!

I fell in love with CM2 not FM12. If you want a new generation of random 12 year-old kids to fall in love with the game K.I.S.S. The game needs to be challenging but simple and fun to play at the same time. You're making a good effort at the challenging game-play but overall the game is complex and not fun to play. Sometimes I quite enjoy getting to work just so I can take a break from the tedious administration involved in FM.

[FM1000]

I dont feel like writhing twice so i will just post from another thread

All this talk about DLC is distracting everyone from the main thing: The ME

And i don't mean the animations i mean the ME. The ME in 2012 was so boring and predictable i couldn't bear to watch it. If you play 2D like me its like you have special powers, you know exactly which shot will go over the bar or wide or which will go in. Combine that with very bad defending and non existent decision making ( players make decisions a 12 year old wouldn't make ) and you have a bad ME. And to top it all off, you cant recreate an IRL tactic in a game that claims it's the best football simulation to date. There is no DMC dropping in between the two defenders, no libero running forwards, no Pirlo like passes even when the player has 20 in the important categories, suiting instructions and PPM's. No players trying to position themselves to shoot with thier stronger foot, why score a goal when you can use your weaker foot and miss?

It's a shame really. I know that PaulC did the ME and the first FM but maybe it's time for a change? All these years it's the same ME ( with small but unsatisfactory improvements ) with no big change, while time and money are being spent to cater to the wider audience, the one who thinks that stadium animations, facebook integraion and new UI are more important than the core stuff. I for one would not be buying FM 2013. Yes the ME in FM 2013 is improved but reading PaulC posts it's nowhere near where it should be. It may produce realistic results but it does so in an unrealistic way.

[dribbler]

"There is no DMC dropping in between the two defenders, no libero running forwards"

can't you do this by adjusting mentality and forward runs?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/211866-Building-your-Formation-using-the-Tactical-Instructions

[themadsheep2001]

I dont feel like writhing twice so i will just post from another thread

And yet its still wrong the second time. Where they twice said they have made the biggest changes to the ME since 2009.

[dribbler]

"And i don't mean the animations i mean the ME. The ME in 2012 was so boring and predictable i couldn't bear to watch it. If you play 2D like me its like you have special powers, you know exactly which shot will go over the bar or wide or which will go in. Combine that with very bad defending and non existent decision making ( players make decisions a 12 year old wouldn't make ) and you have a bad ME. And to top it all off, you cant recreate an IRL tactic in a game that claims it's the best football simulation to date. There is no DMC dropping in between the two defenders, no libero running forwards, no Pirlo like passes even when the player has 20 in the important categories, suiting instructions and PPM's. No players trying to position themselves to shoot with thier stronger foot, why score a goal when you can use your weaker foot and miss?"

Be in no doubt I want this stuff too.

[themadsheep2001]

"And i don't mean the animations i mean the ME. The ME in 2012 was so boring and predictable i couldn't bear to watch it. If you play 2D like me its like you have special powers, you know exactly which shot will go over the bar or wide or which will go in. Combine that with very bad defending and non existent decision making ( players make decisions a 12 year old wouldn't make ) and you have a bad ME. And to top it all off, you cant recreate an IRL tactic in a game that claims it's the best football simulation to date. There is no DMC dropping in between the two defenders, no libero running forwards, no Pirlo like passes even when the player has 20 in the important categories, suiting instructions and PPM's. No players trying to position themselves to shoot with thier stronger foot, why score a goal when you can use your weaker foot and miss?"

Be in no doubt I want this stuff too.

There isnt the DMC dropping in, yet. Part of a quote from PaulC:

I would certainly like to improve the relationship between DMC and centre halves in ball playing teams but as yet I havent had a chance to look into it.

[dribbler]

There isnt the DMC dropping in, yet. Part of a quote from PaulC:

I've not tried it so I can't contradict you but did you read the SFraser post I linked?

[themadsheep2001]

I've not tried it so I can't contradict you but did you read the SFraser post I linked?

Just had a quick read, not tested it myself, but I've read most of SFraser's stuff so if he believes it possible with the right instructions, then I'd accept that. But i think PaulC is saying its not as fluid as it should be, and from my personal experience i agree.

[dribbler]

Just had a quick read, not tested it myself, but I've read most of SFraser's stuff so if he believes it possible with the right instructions, then I'd accept that. But i think PaulC is saying its not as fluid as it should be, and from my personal experience i agree.

no I don't think I noticed him claiming that...I just thought that if it was possible to get your libero running past your DC's (say) that would be the way to do it

[themadsheep2001]

no I don't think I noticed him claiming that...I just thought that if it was possible to get your libero running past your DC's (say) that would be the way to do it

I think any instructions like that would be a work around, as opposed to being a natural part of the ME. No idea if they would work though. Hopefully we will see it at some point during the updates to FM13

[dribbler]

Back to my rant

the transfer system is a piece of nonsense too...there's far too little transfer activity compared to real life...the AI managers just don't compete with you for quality players...they are much too loyal to underperforming established players...they're also much too loyal to useless youth players already at their clubs...they don't actively get rid of players they don't want...they try to do this a little but of course there's no demand for these players from the other AI managers...and of course we all know the AI managers can't build squads...players are much too loyal to their clubs as well

adding all that together just makes a dead transfer market and a dead transfer market means the AI managers can't compete with humans

[dribbler]

ever started a game unemployed and watched how there are zero managerial sackings in the Premier League for 18 months...and that includes the teams who are relegated...what's that all about?

is it really so difficult to make some of the chairmen much more trigger happy?...even I know enough about editing to do it so what on earth is going on here?

[dribbler]

at least we're getting leaderboards

[dribbler]

Ever got a new job and bought a player from your old club? This has always been impossible for me even when I'm on the favored person list and the new club is much bigger than the old one. Brendan Rodgers got Joe Allen but I'm managing Brighton and just got offered Man Utd but I know none of my players would move with me. On the plus side they had a mass exodus of staff and I got Brian McClair

[Welshace]

this thread is starting to resemble the secret day-to-day diary of a schizophrenic

[dribbler]

this thread is starting to resemble the secret day-to-day diary of a schizophrenic

if I went into detail item by item I could go on for weeks

[Chicha_14]

if I went into detail item by item I could go on for weeks

Do you enjoy the game at all?

[Seule]

this thread is starting to resemble the secret day-to-day diary of a schizophrenic

I was thinking this exact thing.

I"ll also note as regards referencing SFraser's posts, none of them will ever be with regard to FM2012 unfortunately. The defensive stuff talked about is absolutely spot on, if you actually want to play like that, you can't. I would love to have a set up where my anchor man can drop back while my DC goes ranging forward, I would love to be able to play with a proper libero, but at the moment, you can't, unlike some people, I've actually put some serious work into testing this myself. I also like feeding trolls, so i guess 1 out of 3 ain't bad.

[psycho1970]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, until SI Games get some competition this series will decline.

SI Games over the last year at least, have become complacent, sure they've worked on some new shiny stuff but for the core gamers this isn't enough. Reading most of the threads all people want is an indication that the bugs from previous editions have been looked at and corrected. Last year they brought in the add/remove league feature which if it worked without breaking the game after 5 plus seasons would have been great, has it been fixed ?.

Come on SI Games come and post on here what you have fixed and what your still working on to fix. The silence from SI isn't giving me and I expect many other people confidence in FM13 being worth buying this year.

@Chica_14

I know your question was directed at dribbler, but my answer would be I used to enjoy the game but with so many problems with FM12 my enthusiasm is declining rapidly.

[themadsheep2001]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, until SI Games get some competition this series will decline.

SI Games over the last year at least, have become complacent, sure they've worked on some new shiny stuff but for the core gamers this isn't enough. Reading most of the threads all people want is an indication that the bugs from previous editions have been looked at and corrected. Last year they brought in the add/remove league feature which if it worked without breaking the game after 5 plus seasons would have been great, has it been fixed ?.

Come on SI Games come and post on here what you have fixed and what your still working on to fix. The silence from SI isn't giving me and I expect many other people confidence in FM13 being worth buying this year.

@Chica_14

I know your question was directed at dribbler, but my answer would be I used to enjoy the game but with so many problems with FM12 my enthusiasm is declining rapidly.

Then dont buy it. If you want to know what else has been done, wait for the rest of the blogs (the whole point of the blogs is to give you snippets of what is coming) and then play the demo. That after all is the purpose of a demo. There hasnt been a silence, there have been 4 blogs and standalone video and there are still 20 more blogs IIRC. Thats how they give out the info.

Also what is the definition of a core gamer? There are plenty of long playing fans who want totally different things.

[psycho1970]

Then dont buy it. If you want to know what else has been done, wait for the rest of the blogs (the whole point of the blogs is to give you snippets of what is coming) and then play the demo. That after all is the purpose of a demo. There hasnt been a silence, there have been 4 blogs and standalone video and there are still 20 more blogs IIRC. Thats how they give out the info.

Also what is the definition of a core gamer? There are plenty of long playing fans who want totally different things.

I wont be buying it if theres no evidence of previous bugs being fixed, I'll leave that to mugs like you to shell out £30 for a paint over job, but seriously how hard would it be for Neil or someone else from SI to answer many peoples fears and can you truly say you were happy with FM12 ?, Don't you want the game to be more enjoyable rather than frustrating because theres to many bugs ?

[themadsheep2001]

I wont be buying it if theres no evidence of previous bugs being fixed, I'll leave that to mugs like you to shell out £30 for a paint over job, but seriously how hard would it be for Neil or someone else from SI to answer many peoples fears and can you truly say you were happy with FM12 ?, Don't you want the game to be more enjoyable rather than frustrating because theres to many bugs ?

Really so its come down to insulting someone because they have a different point? As every year I make my decision based on the demo. I already knew that FM12 was going to be a touch up, PaulC was up front that there would be minimal changes to the ME in 12 while they worked on an overhaul for FM13. And on that point I was happy with it, but I wouldn't want FM13 to be the same. I expect more from FM13, and if i dont like the demo I wont buy it. I'll wait for the information (as it has been coming each day via the blogs) to come out and then play the demo. After all its a demonstration of what the game will be.

[psycho1970]

Really so its come down to insulting someone because they have a different point? As every year I make my decision based on the demo. I already knew that FM12 was going to be a touch up, PaulC was up front that there would be minimal changes to the ME in 12 while they worked on an overhaul for FM13. And on that point I was happy with it, but I wouldn't want FM13 to be the same. I expect more from FM13, and if i dont like the demo I wont buy it. I'll wait for the information (as it has been coming each day via the blogs) to come out and then play the demo. After all its a demonstration of what the game will be.

The "but seriously" was the indication it was tongue in cheek, but hey if your that touchee then I apologize

[themadsheep2001]

The "but seriously" was the indication it was tongue in cheek, but hey if your that touchee then I apologize

You need safety smiles, its like the law

But if the FM13 demo is basically FM12 without enough changes, its a no go. But all im saying is what for the info to come out.