Valencia7 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 i think this video should answer few questions about DoF [video=youtube;TDtXbz7zP7k] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 \ o / Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdpoo Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Umm.... If they really can find teams for my loan listed players - great (although it's probably some kind of automation of the old "Offer to clubs" option, which never helped much). But otherwise we all know how poor the AI is at squad building, why on earth would I let it handle transfers/contracts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valencia7 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 My first save will probably be with some rich club, and with DoF with total control, for few seasons, just to see if it's any good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo_rune Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Looks really awesome! asdpoo, I think the point is that we want the AI to be able to build squads better than they currently do, and maybe this has been improved in FM13 - and it seems that the player will have a fair degree of control of what they personally manage and what the DoF, if used, manages (and even then they can specify parameters for what they want to happen). As always, not everyone will use this, but it could be a great tool to increase realism, or reduce micromanagement for certain tasks, depending on the preferences of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asdpoo Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'm with you on all that, but since nobody flaunts improved AI, but animations and cameras, I'm very skeptical it's gonna be any different Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The manager can fired/hired the DoF? I think that SI should went on other direction. The chairman should be in charge of hiring the DoF, and we, as manager, must work in the man that the chairman hired. This could be a bigger challenge, if, for example, the DoF would be a person with a very different personality from us. After a coulpe of years in a club, or if we got a world class reputation, then, and only then, we could have the option of fired the DoF and hired a different one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo_rune Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The AI is very hard to 'show off', though. It's something that is constantly being worked on and refined, but the only stage where we'll really understand the nature of any changes is when the demo comes out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The manager can fired/hired the DoF?I think that SI should went on other direction. The chairman should be in charge of hiring the DoF, and we, as manager, must work in the man that the chairman hired. This could be a bigger challenge, if, for example, the DoF would be a person with a very different personality from us. After a coulpe of years in a club, or if we got a world class reputation, then, and only then, we could have the option of fired the DoF and hired a different one. Look at 00:37 and 1:03 in the video, it looks like you can change who hires and fires the DoF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Look at 00:37 and 1:03 in the video, it looks like you can change who hires and fires the DoF. I've notice that Ackter. My point was, hiring/firing the DoF should be a privilege gain over the years, and not a option. I remeber the Mourinho vs Valdano clash in Madrid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seismica Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Looks like it might be useful for off-loading those unwanted players. I think the real question about the DoF though, is balance. Will the DoF be able to negotiate better deals than the human player, or will they always settle for a worse deal? I know I probably won't use the feature (Very glad that every role you assign to him is optional). But if the DoF has some magical advantage when it comes to negotiating deals I will use the feature. I can imagine there will be some backlash from other players who like to have full control though if this is the case. If the DoF tends to get worse deals than the player, then I can see this feature being useless to most people. I'm glad that SI haven't forced this on us. Screw realism, if I lose control of my transfers the game would lose much of it's appeal for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I've notice that Ackter. My point was, hiring/firing the DoF should be a privilege gain over the years, and not a option. I remeber the Mourinho vs Valdano clash in Madrid. I very much agree with this. This should be up to the chairman to hire/fire a DoF. Maybe related to this, if there is a DoF, giving him your "shopping list" is great, but it shouldn't be up to the manager to set the maximum to bid for a particular player. That's the Chairman or DoF or both together that decide that, surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Äktsjon Männ Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I very much agree with this. This should be up to the chairman to hire/fire a DoF.Maybe related to this, if there is a DoF, giving him your "shopping list" is great, but it shouldn't be up to the manager to set the maximum to bid for a particular player. That's the Chairman or DoF or both together that decide that, surely? The problem with that is not everyone wants a director of football in their game. For a lot of people the game would be ruined if they lost control over signings/contract negotiations. Especially if the AI behind it is useless, which I'd say is rather likely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 It could also be a negociable part on your contract, when you are joining a new team or when you renegotiate your contract. "I'll sign the deal, but i decide who is the DoF of this club" Another thing, anyone know if the DoF will be available to any clubs, or just for the professionals? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
managerdude_66 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This honestly seems to be FM's attempt to lure in Fifa manager series players, as if i recall correctly Fifa has an option whereby you can limit the extent of your day to day activity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedwards15 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Interesting, seems well thought out and I'm quite excited to see how it handles in the demo and beyond. I may use it quite a bit for selling players and loaning out youth players so I don't constantly have to worry about it and hopefully they'll be good at choosing the right sort of clubs (i.e. will give first team football). Also like the idea they mentioned briefly of building a shortlist of players you'd like and getting him to get them for you. Nice idea in theory. Probably won't let him muck around with my staff or playing squad in terms of who stays and goes but it seems like a very useful addition to the game even if I won't use all of it myself. Wonder how they'll affect other clubs as well... As people have already stated, hope the AI has had a bit of a boost in the old squad building department. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This honestly seems to be FM's attempt to lure in Fifa manager series players, as if i recall correctly Fifa has an option whereby you can limit the extent of your day to day activity. People have been requesting less responsibilities on this forum for many years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The problem with that is not everyone wants a director of football in their game. For a lot of people the game would be ruined if they lost control over signings/contract negotiations. Especially if the AI behind it is useless, which I'd say is rather likely. Perfectly understandable, but then make it a tick box before you start the game maybe? Or even Keyzer Soze's idea below. It could also be a negociable part on your contract, when you are joining a new team or when you renegotiate your contract."I'll sign the deal, but i decide who is the DoF of this club" Another thing, anyone know if the DoF will be available to any clubs, or just for the professionals? This is a good idea actually. I'd like this option in the game. What happens when the club changes chairman though? I'd be angry if I'm against a DoF and a new chairman ruins my long term game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvaroPDK Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I very much agree with this. This should be up to the chairman to hire/fire a DoF.Maybe related to this, if there is a DoF, giving him your "shopping list" is great, but it shouldn't be up to the manager to set the maximum to bid for a particular player. That's the Chairman or DoF or both together that decide that, surely? I agree too with the chairman hiring/firing the DoF as the most real option, and I dislike that "maximum bid" form, I hope it would be optional and the DoF could decide himself during the negotiation. My other thought about the DoF is that he might be able to sign players that can be registered respecting the competition rules, especially in those ligues with restrictive rules about player's nationalities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJCFC Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Don't think i'd like to have him doing most of those things tbh, i like to handle contracts, youths etc. i can see DoF's handing out some stupidly big contracts/transfers and buying some rubbish players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Don't think i'd like to have him doing most of those things tbh, i like to handle contracts, youths etc. i can see DoF's handing out some stupidly big contracts/transfers and buying some rubbish players. Just like real life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jobs Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Hi, can we hire SAF as ManUtd DoF after we replacing him as the manager ? Interesting ! I would like to have SAF remain in ManUtd as DoF thou. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackJCFC Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Just like real life. It's not really a complaint from me, i know they're like that in real life aswell. I just don't want them ruining my game! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurf Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Then I suggest you give yourself the option of having a DoF and don't hire one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogogo golem Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I think SI have done this right. Those people who want him to have more power or not even control who and if he's signed you can have it your way and people like me who doesn't want them at my club at all or just to do a few small jobs have an option to do that as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
From Perth to Paisley Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I think SI have done this right. Those people who want him to have more power or not even control who and if he's signed you can have it your way and people like me who doesn't want them at my club at all or just to do a few small jobs have an option to do that as well. Exactly you can switch it off an on as you please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Maybe Miles or somebody can answer this, if I select that the chairman is in charge of hiring/firing a DoF, does that mean that they'll definately go out to hire a DoF? It would be great if it is dependent on chairman attributes/personality whether he decides to hire a DoF at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PG41 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 So they'll basically be a more expanded version of an Assistant Manager. I never allow my Assistant Manager anywhere near anything important and it'll be the same with this. But I guess it's another option if this is your thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maystor Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Sounds good in theory, but considering I'm yet to see the AI being any good at any of those tasks, I doubt I'm going to trust it on it. Good thing it's optional. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sreddy Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 If you want realism, then the Director of Football should be non-adjustable. It is not realism that the manager decides what the Director of football takes care of. Almost all other places but England, the Director of Football ranks above the manager and the manager must adapt to him, not the other way around. I would love to have a game where countries / clubs controlled which works without the manager-role also worked that way in FM13. I know some people would hate not to choose how they want the game to be, so it could be a selection in the pregame-option "Realistic Directors of football/costumizable Directors of football" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogogo golem Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I think most things on here are definitely right but if SI made the DoF compulsory to work around I think they would lose a lot of custom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deisler26 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I like the idea of the DoF sending out your youth on loan to give them first team experience Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
klear Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Looks a good, solid addition. I did have my doubts over whether they would be able to pull it off but it looks like they have. I've always wanted the option to give a member of my backroom team a list of targets and see what they can do. One thing I have reservations about is whether a manager should be allowed to hire and fire them at will. Surely it should be down to the board? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
x42bn6 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This thread just shows that few actually care that the game is a pure "Football Manager" game, or what the name of the video game is (few managers would have the power to delegate to a Director of Football, maybe Ferguson, Wenger... Steve Kean) - it's about being able to control your football team's destiny that is key. The game is more than happy to sacrifice realism for fun, showing it's a video game, not a simulation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogogo golem Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This thread just shows that few actually care that the game is a pure "Football Manager" game, or what the name of the video game is (few managers would have the power to delegate to a Director of Football, maybe Ferguson, Wenger... Steve Kean) - it's about being able to control your football team's destiny that is key. The game is more than happy to sacrifice realism for fun, showing it's a video game, not a simulation. Very well said, we need to remember it is a game and a lot people would have their fun ruined but it being compulsory. FM is the most realistic management game out there but it doesn't put all the real stuff in there to keep it fun and in this case it gives people the option of fun and realism. The whingers saying the board should pick are being silly as you can let them do it and you shouldn't be telling people how to play their game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Bladesman Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Looks like SI have got the balance between realism and game spot on here - yes, it would be more realistic for a DoF to be forced on us by a board, but it could really ruin someone's game at the same time if that was so. Plus Brendan Rodgers has shown that the manager can dictate terms here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogogo golem Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Looks like SI have got the balance between realism and game spot on here - yes, it would be more realistic for a DoF to be forced on us by a board, but it could really ruin someone's game at the same time if that was so. Plus Brendan Rodgers has shown that the manager can dictate terms here! Exactly and Brendan Rodgers is a great example to the whingers saying it should be forced on everyone not let us have fun instead of a potentially ruined save. If it was forced how could someone do a youth only challenge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alekos Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Again nothing said about how usefull will be the DoF in our games..Are they going to have more influence to get players to us?Shall they be able to loan out our players easier?Shall they buy players to us without asking?All those things is realism..If the DoF addition is just cosmetic thank you but I am not interested.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flohrinho Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I never have been a huge fan of any of the decisions or advice my assistance and other staff member have ever given me. I doubt that will change with a DoF so I will probably not use that feature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trekman Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Also like the idea they mentioned briefly of building a shortlist of players you'd like and getting him to get them for you. Nice idea in theory. I wasn't really too interested in the Director Of Football feature when it was first announced but I do like the idea of him going out and negotiating with agents for players on your shortlists. I just hope that they dont go signing players that you dont want like some interfering chairmen tend to do. Hi, can we hire SAF as ManUtd DoF after we replacing him as the manager ? Interesting ! I would like to have SAF remain in ManUtd as DoF thou. That would be fun I think! Cant really see Fergie as a DOF when he eventually unplugs his hairdryer though! I think he'll probably get a seat on the board the way Sir Bobby did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawlore Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 So, what we're saying is that the Director of Football is an Assistant to the Manager? Man, if only there had been a staff member already responsible for other optional parts of the manager's job who could've done this without having to implement a whole new role. I want to be positive about the changes, I really do, and I appreciate that giving the player more choice over what they do and don't control is a positive, AI concerns aside. By no means am I arguing with the idea of letting the player not be involved in things they don't want to- anything that gives the manager more opportunity to focus on what interests them is a positive. But having the DoF as just another lapdog who does exactly what you tell them really seems like a missed opportunity to create a more individual role which actually adds depth to backroom management. It's a more complex relationship than just an off-the-pitch assistant manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 So, what we're saying is that the Director of Football is an Assistant to the Manager? Man, if only there had been a staff member already responsible for other optional parts of the manager's job who could've done this without having to implement a whole new role.I want to be positive about the changes, I really do, and I appreciate that giving the player more choice over what they do and don't control is a positive, AI concerns aside. By no means am I arguing with the idea of letting the player not be involved in things they don't want to- anything that gives the manager more opportunity to focus on what interests them is a positive. But having the DoF as just another lapdog who does exactly what you tell them really seems like a missed opportunity to create a more individual role which actually adds depth to backroom management. It's a more complex relationship than just an off-the-pitch assistant manager. No, because it seems you can set the director of football to be hired and fired only by the board. The whole point is not to force it on players who don't want it, but allow full realism for those who do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawlore Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 No, because it seems you can set the director of football to be hired and fired only by the board. The whole point is not to force it on players who don't want it, but allow full realism for those who do. I'm not sure I understand the point you're making- even if they're hired by the board, I would assume you will still have full control over what they are or are not responsible for? There was certainly very little suggestion that anything would be forced on a manager if it was the board who'd hired them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prongsie92 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'd love it if your performance and Chairman interference influences how much control the DoF has (or how much control you have over the DoF). Do bad and the chairman takes more duties from you and gives the DoF more power. Do good and you can decide what the DoF does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyzer Soze Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 This thread just shows that few actually care that the game is a pure "Football Manager" game, or what the name of the video game is (few managers would have the power to delegate to a Director of Football, maybe Ferguson, Wenger... Steve Kean) - it's about being able to control your football team's destiny that is key. The game is more than happy to sacrifice realism for fun, showing it's a video game, not a simulation. As i stated i found it akward that we could hire/fired the DoF. It's not real, and perhaps we can count by the fingers in our hand the names of manager that irl have more "power" than the DoF. But i must agree with x42bn6. SI must found, in every feature, the balance between the realism and the fun of a video game. I guess this feature follows in the same category of buying players. In 99% of the clubs, it's not the manager that makes the proposal, negotiate with the player/agent, etc etc. It's a job for the chairman of the DoF. But if we coudn't do this in FM because of "it's not a job for the manager" it would remove a big part of the fun of the game. Balance is the key, and so i must step back a little bit in my early opinion. I think SI got the balance right! Most excellent post x42bn6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmertime Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'll most definitely hire an exotic DoF only to expand scouting knowledge of my club, other than that I'm going to take care personally of every little thing as usual Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spankie Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The good thing is that you can configure the DoF to fit how you want it. If you want realism then let the board hire/fire the DoF and then let him do everything. If you want some automation of the more tedious things then let the DoF pick up that slack and send the development players out on loan for example. If you want to control everything then set it so that you hire and fire the DoF and don't hire one. As long as it works OK then SI have covered more or less every base here. yes the Ass Man could do some of these things, but AFAIK no AM buys players or negotiates contracts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegr8anand Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Excellent addition. Hope it works out as intended. I really want it to work with clearing out my listed/loan players to go out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukki Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The good thing is that you can configure the DoF to fit how you want it.If you want realism then let the board hire/fire the DoF and then let him do everything. If you want some automation of the more tedious things then let the DoF pick up that slack and send the development players out on loan for example. If you want to control everything then set it so that you hire and fire the DoF and don't hire one. As long as it works OK then SI have covered more or less every base here. yes the Ass Man could do some of these things, but AFAIK no AM buys players or negotiates contracts. /agree... came to say pretty much this. Also, the relationship between a manager and a director of football (if the position exists at all) varies A LOT across different countries, and depending on relative statures of the individuals in those roles, etc. Definitely not one model that applies in all cases, so I think the choices SI gives are a pretty realistic approximation, while not being so slavishly realistic that it would take away the fun of being in control of our own game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
QWERTYOP Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 IF it will finally solve the long standing problem of it being far too tough to shift unwanted players, then I'll be over the moon with it. Otherwise, it kinda just looks like another feature which is designed to let you play a shorter less in-depth version of the game in disguise really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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